Another anti-gun poll.

[marksman]

of coarse its not outrageous Duncan, but changing firearm legislation wont change anything
mentally unstable people should not be able to have firearms, this kid was a wank and the FBI gave him the opportunity to live out his dream
by not grabbing him when they could have, nobody believes any different

Martin Bryant was not grabbed when he should have been either

[bladeracer]

There is a motion to raize the age for auto rifles to 21 and not sell firearms to mentally unstable people.Is that completely outrageous.Sure he could of sourced explosive material and blown the school up but easy access to an auto rifle simplified the task.He planned to go and do this and went at a time to maximize the result.The security guards did not enter the area because of the rate of fire going on.The students and parents have had enough.I have been to the states twice,My son did 2 years high school basketball and 1 year college ball in Ohio.most schools have like airport security to prevent this it is just not acceptable to be scared going to school

That rate of of fire was children being murdered! Any man should've been running toward the firing, not hiding outside in safety.
I agree, but legal gun ownership is not the problem here. There were YEARS of warnings and CONSTANT scrutiny of this kid and NOBODY did ANYTHING AT ALL. Similar to Martin Bryant. The gun was not the cause of this tragedy.

[duncan61]

I see your point much clearer now

[marksman]

I see your point much clearer now

no problem

[Gwion]

If there was 'years of scrutiny on this kid', then how the fck did he get his hands on an auto firing rifle?
Seems to me that some changes in legislation DO need to occur. I don't advocate the 'ban it' attitude but there does need to be checks and balances to prevent whackos getting hold of guns.

[marksman]

If there was 'years of scrutiny on this kid', then how the fck did he get his hands on an auto firing rifle?
Seems to me that some changes in legislation DO need to occur. I don't advocate the 'ban it' attitude but there does need to be checks and balances to prevent whackos getting hold of guns.

no,
as has been said by people who are American on this forum there is already legislation in place to stop these wanks getting/owning a firearm in the US
the authority's did not act
if they do not do there job what will making more rules/laws change
not a thing

[bladeracer]

If there was 'years of scrutiny on this kid', then how the fck did he get his hands on an auto firing rifle?
Seems to me that some changes in legislation DO need to occur. I don't advocate the 'ban it' attitude but there does need to be checks and balances to prevent whackos getting hold of guns.

An auto firing rifle? He had a common AR15 as far as I'm aware, the same as most Americans own.

[Gwion]

Yes. Alledgedly.

[Gamerancher]

His juvenile history was quashed as part of a snivel libertarian program to stop "vunerable" child offenders from having a criminal record.
Had he had the regular reporting done he would have been flagged under the background checks that are in place already.

http://www.naacp.org/latest/ending-the- ... n-florida/

[Gwion]

Well. Then the US needs to take a good long hard look at itself and how it operates.
It's not good enough to say 'but these acts are isolated to a few areas' and 'it's not the gun, it's the authorities not doing their job'. The fact is it happens far too often and solutions need to found. Rhetoric and indignation is cheap; real solutions take a little more effort.

[Gwion]

I mean, if current legislation is failing to prevent these atrocities then it needs to be updated or amended so that it does.

[bladeracer]

I mean, if current legislation is failing to prevent these atrocities then it needs to be updated or amended so that it does.

I don't think it's any lack of legislation, they throw more of that at the problem every time it comes up. In this instance the cause seems to be lack of communication and co-ordination between departments combined with zero actual will among the community or officials to act, for various reasons of their own. A LOT of people, including authorities, have known about this kid for years without doing anything. I even saw one report that the kid himself rang Police begging them to do something to stop him.

[Gwion]

Then the revisitation of legislation should include compulsory action on the part of said authorities, with liability appointed to any department &/or individual that fails in its duty of care to both the perpetrator and the victims and US society as a whole.

[duncan61]

Is it possible not being able to buy M15 Auto rifles at the local hardware store over the counter might slow down the murder rate.As with our fishing management our firearm management in this country is well balanced and available to the public.I have 7 firearms all legit and I use them regularly.I used M16 and bren guns in the military as well as SLR in 7.62.There is no public use for these types of firearms they are for quick and effective killing of the enemy not to take to school.

[marksman]

the firearm is not the problem it is just the tool used,
we have seen different tools used here in Australia that are not banned,
we know it would be ludicrous to try to ban them
we all know that the nut behind the butt is the cause of firearm incidences,
firearms do not have a mind of there own and cannot get up and kill people
Duncan I get yours and Gwion's perspective I do,
I just don't agree that making another rule because this ones not working
because someone didn't take things seriously enough and did not do there job is a good thing
especially when it penalises other law abiding people who do no wrong
nobody can legislate crime away, cannot, cant
it will only stop the law abiding people from doing or having what they had or did, we all know that here in oz
the people who do this type of thing don't care, they will find a tool to do the job
it does come down to someone did not do what they should have to stop this wacko from walking the streets let alone having a firearm

no different to the warnings that were not taken seriously regarding Martin Bryant

and we need to get a media service that tells the truth
yea that's going to happen

we also have hardware stores that sell firearms here in oz legally, why cant a hardware store sell firearms
my daughter who has lived in America 5 years, cannot buy a firearm till she is a resident, do not believe the crap you hear about buying guns in the US

[bladeracer]

Is it possible not being able to buy M15 Auto rifles at the local hardware store over the counter might slow down the murder rate.As with our fishing management our firearm management in this country is well balanced and available to the public.I have 7 firearms all legit and I use them regularly.I used M16 and bren guns in the military as well as SLR in 7.62.There is no public use for these types of firearms they are for quick and effective killing of the enemy not to take to school.

And how many times did you use those firearms to shoot up a school? I'm guessing none? Just like virtually all licenced gun owners.
The type of firearm does not matter. If you want to shoot up a school and can't legally buy an AR15, then you'll buy one illegally, or use something altogether different, fire is always good for mass murder and freely available to everybody, without a licence or background check. People without licences also use vehicles for mass murder, again freely available to everybody.

Can you think of anywhere in the world where increasing gun control lead to less violence?

Semi-auto rifles are indeed very good hunting rifles, and also provide plenty of recreational enjoyment. You have very quick follow up shots without changing your sight picture. They're particularly good for pest control - which is why they're still legal for that purpose. How many pigs and goats were taken in this country with AG42's, SKS's, L1A1's, AR15's, Mini14's and M1 Carbines before they were banned? How many rabbits and foxes were taken with Ruger 10/22's and Stirling Model 20's - in the hands of children? How many people were murdered with those same firearms?

[marksman]

Is it possible not being able to buy M15 Auto rifles at the local hardware store over the counter might slow down the murder rate.As with our fishing management our firearm management in this country is well balanced and available to the public.I have 7 firearms all legit and I use them regularly.I used M16 and bren guns in the military as well as SLR in 7.62.There is no public use for these types of firearms they are for quick and effective killing of the enemy not to take to school.

I feel like I'm picking on you duncan so I apologise if you feel that I am, I really don't want to look that way

you do realise that before M16's and SLR's people did take there guns to school, the 303, a war gun made for the purpose of killing people
and nobody blinked an eye or got there feelings hurt about it
there are some schools that still have firearms as part of there curriculum in Australia
Geelong Grammer School - Timbertop being one of
kids at this school can get there firearm licence (junior permit) at the school
amazing hey, no armed guards or armed teachers
this country's firearm management is not at all balanced, it makes law abiding gun owners look like they are criminals and cannot be trusted

[Gwion]

Not suggesting any 'ban'. Just ensure that any reports of potential danger from individuals is taken seriously and has manditory action taken. If the 'authorities' are held responsible they will act.
Like here, in Aust, when health care workers suspect or have evidence of domestic violence they are legally bound to report it. Sure, it may result in some cases being investgated that end up being a dead end but isn't that better than the alternative?
Surely there is a reasonable way to keep weapons out of the hands of loonies with out penalising the average law abiding person.

Ok. The nutters 'could' choose another 'tool' and sometimes do but by and large they don't. They pick the easiest, most efficient and available means to their chosen end. And that, in the US, is a gun. Putting checks and balances in place to prevent easy access for nut jobs is not a bad thing because, as we all agree, it's the nut jobs that are the problem...

[rsj223]

http://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/sto ... ned/?cs=80

[Daddybang]

http://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/5254261/if-you-are-not-sure-dont-shoot-duck-hunters-warned/?cs=80

Got two yes votes thru before it chuckled a wobbly!!

[Gamerancher]

Come on fella's, it's at 50/50 at the moment, we're slipping.

[sungazer]

I put in about 10 votes. looks like we are losing this one.

[bladeracer]

I voted no.

You believe duck hunting should no longer be legal?

[Gamerancher]

The blokes that I know that go duck hunting do so to fill their freezer. Some shoot over crops for pest control. I don't have a problem with that.
If you are out there just to blast them out of the sky, take up Field and Game.

[pedro4977]

If I was allowed to own a AR15 it would identify as a coffee machine of cultural significance