Attacking the NRA is really attacking everyday Americans

[wrenchman]

our gun problims are social issues again this person had mental problims and made threats if you take the ar15 away he would just use another gun .
he made threats on you tube and was reported to the f.b.i the police was at his home 39 time he was kicked out for bringing weapons to school at every point he broke laws and nothing was done if you make a threat against any law maker in every case you are cuffed and hauled away i thing evey one should have the same protection and kids at schools more

[wanneroo]

Bentaz
Perhaps what I'm typing here in English is coming up as Aramaic on whatever screen you're looking at. All I am saying, FFS, is that adding more untracable, unlicenced guns to an already overloaded market is adding to their problem.

The funny thing is more rules and laws have an opposite effect.

Since day one in the USA you've been allowed to build your own firearm for personal use. The only requirement is that whatever you build has to be legal under Federal law and whatever state and locality you live in and that if you sell it, it has to be marked with a manufacturer(you) and a serial number. Once obama started his gun ranting, the AR-15 and AK-47 build industry exploded with people buying "parts kits" and making their own receivers, either milling a 80% receiver out or folding a receiver flat into shape with a jig. Anyone with a cheap welder, drill press and a few tools, even a Dremel, can make a gun.

Same with reloading. The reloading industry exploded over the past 10 years as people like myself seek to be self sufficient on ammo.

Just in new guns alone according to the number of background checks done, obama probably sold 100 million new guns during his two terms and the more the left keeps talking bans, the more we are going to buy. Just because of your posting now I think I'll order another couple dozen AR and AK mags, why not, 30 round PMAGS are on sale today for $8.99, Croatian AK mags $9.99!

[wrenchman]

please keep in mind many of our social issues would not be allowed any place world

[straightshooter]

Although it is slightly dated, the attached graphic puts the US situation into perspective.
So what is the real problem?
The swathes of psychologists employed everywhere in the modern propagandised world are quite aware that perhaps only 1 in a 100 (or perhaps a 1000) is capable of true critical thinking. The rest respond, to a lesser or greater extent, to whatever simulates their amygdala.
This phenomenon is constantly exploited by politicians and their adjuncts.
So look at the graphic again, it would seem logical that if the real concern was for loss of innocent life wouldn't banning knives or hands, fists and feet produce a more tangible result.
What do you think might be the real agenda?

I would like to find a similar comparison for Australia

US_Homicides.jpg (139.39 KiB) Viewed 6654 times

[Gwion]

[ The problem in america is they are all f***ed in the head. Canadians, kiwis and a host of other relevant nations don't just lose there s**t and shoot everyone.

Succinct.
I'm sure as whole the people of the US are genuinely good people but their system is so fundamentally flawed that it produces a large number of complete nut jobs with extremely violent ideations.

[Gwion]

Ok then...

[Gaznazdiak]

bentaz
I may have been a little rude in my response to you making out my comment was stupid, but I get a bit shirty when people twist what I say out all relation to what was actually said.

I did not make the evil suggestion that guns should be banned.
I did not suggest that new laws should be introduced, I actually said in the 4th para of my comment that it would be pointless.
Just in case you didn't bother to read that far into the comment before making up your mind that I actually meant the opposite of what I was saying, I have included para 4 below.

"As the video below clearly demonstrates, making ever tighter and more restrictive gun laws will never work in America as the lack of licencing and registration makes a nonsense of draconian laws persecuting law abiding people. That horse hasn't just bolted, it's retired to a nice paddock and died of old age"

All I meant was that with people able to sell unregistered, untraceable guns to unidentified strangers the problem will never be solvable.
Yes, that probably will need a law change to prevent that, but sometimes a change in the law can be a positive.

I know that for some gun fanciers, any suggestion of regulation is akin to a loud fart in the middle of a funeral service, but sometimes we have to accept that just because we want unfettered gratification of our gunlove, and that most of us could be trusted with that unfettered gratification, the world is also brimming with ratbags who should not have access to a sharp pencil, let alone untraceable hand guns.

Just out of interest, am I right in the impression I get from your comments that you think that having the ability to transfer untraceable hand guns willy-nilly is not actually exacerbating the situation? Because that is what it sounds like.

[bladeracer]

All I meant was that with people able to sell unregistered, untraceable guns to unidentified strangers the problem will never be solvable. Yes, that probably will need a law change to prevent that, but sometimes a change in the law can be a positive.

CNN admitted in the video that it was illegal to be sold those firearms without the seller demanding ID. That's yet another law that is clearly not being enforced, so why assume another law might be?
I think "no ID required" only applies if both parties reside in the same state, but without requiring ID how do you prove that...

[Gaznazdiak]

All I was trying to say yesterday, obviously not clearly enough, was that with all that untraceable firepower floating around with all that gunlove in the air the problem is no longer solvable.
I really don't understand how so many decided that my perplexity at the situation was some lefty call for blanket confiscation. It was not.

[bladeracer]

All I was trying to say yesterday, obviously not clearly enough, was that with all that untraceable firepower floating around with all that gunlove in the air the problem is no longer solvable.
I really don't understand how so many decided that my perplexity at the situation was some lefty call for blanket confiscation. It was not.

It doesn't matter where you are on the planet, there are unrecorded guns floating around everywhere, regardless of laws. Laws will never stop criminal access to guns. It never has anywhere it's been tried.

I get the same thing. I spend every day trying to educate anti-gun people, and their only view is that if we're pro-gun then we won't accept any regulation at all. Anywhere in between just doesn't fit into their belief system. The number of Aussies that still believe handguns are banned here is really annoying, even some shooters don't know we can have handguns.

[marksman]

wannaroo said in his last post that firearms have to be marked with manufacturer and serial number in the US
so really these guys in the vid Gaz, selling the guns without are crooks who deserve the full force of the law, they are not law abiding citizens
who is responsible for enforcing the law mate who has dropped the ball, but who gets the blame and has to pay

how many storeys of this nature do you read about and the FBI or local authority's new about the perp and did not act

[bladeracer]

wannaroo said in his last post that firearms have to be marked with manufacturer and serial number in the US
so really these guys in the vid Gaz, selling the guns without are crooks who deserve the full force of the law, they are not law abiding citizens
who is responsible for enforcing the law mate who has dropped the ball, but who gets the blame and has to pay

how many storeys of this nature do you read about and the FBI or local authority's new about the perp and did not act

The guns in the video were all mass-produced with serial numbers and manufacturer's details.

But charges should have been followed up on the sellers that did not demand ID as required by law. Since CNN knew this was illegal when they purchased them, unless they informed Police of illegal activity they should be charged also with abetting the crime.

[Gaznazdiak]

Hi marksman,

Sure the cops the, Sheriffs, the BATF, the FBI all share responsibility, but a quick read of the statutes in the link below shows the real cause of the problem.
That and the fact that too many nongs over there think it's still 1776 and the Gummint's out to get them, or brainwash them with vaccines. One specimen I was reading the other day insists that the World Health Organisation is actually a satanist conspiracy to enslave us all and that UNESCO is a conspiracy to breed all the races together and "muddy up" the bloodlines to get rid of the white man. No prizes for guessing there's a white robe and pointy hood in his cupboard.

According to the American Findlaw website, 28 of the 50 US states do not require checks, ID or licence for private citizens to sell guns to each other. All of those 28 have provisos, but they nearly all contain the get out clause that the seller can not "knowingly" sell to a prohibited person.
The only proviso for New Mexico gave me a giggle:
N.M. Stat. Ann. § 30-22-12(A): May not transfer firearms to a person in custody or confinement without the consent of the officer in charge.
http://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer-tr ... state.html

[Gaznazdiak]

bentaz

"No I don't think the trade in handguns is very pertinent to the fact d**kheads with "rifles" keep shooting people!"

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/sund ... -myth.html

[bladeracer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nROWwJfdueY

Skip to 21:50 to see how the Police and 23:30 Council officials explain that if they'd known he had access to firearms they wouldn't have been treating him this way.

It's not a conspiracy, our government, and all governments, want a disarmed public they can kick around as they see fit.

[bladeracer]

https://www.peo.gov.au/learning/fact-sheets/making-a-law.html

We get another 180 new laws every year, that's 4000 new laws just since '96.
What difference do they make to our society?
None, they just enable government to suck even more cash out of the people that are turned into criminals every time a new law is added.

[Bigjobss]

Anyone here listen to the No Agenda podcast?
I reccomend listening to epidosde 1011 "vasectomies for dogs" for an interesting discussion around the florida shooting. Skip to 1hr18m, but the whole podcast is good.
One theory, close to the conspiracy field but not quite there, apparently the local Broward County schools sherrif and police departments have been responding to a scheme where they had financial and ploitical gains to burying crime amongst students over the last few years, including the shooter who was known to the Sherrif department, the sherrif Scott Israel seems shifty as hell.

[Gwion]

Laws can be passed as legislation but they only stsnd untill they challenged. Legislation cannot be upheld that impinges on the common law rights of citizens as laid out in the original bill of rights.

So. If you really feel laws being passed are contrary to the basic rights that are the basis of all commonwealth law; stop bitching about it and mount a class action challenge to the laws n question.

[wanneroo]

All I meant was that with people able to sell unregistered, untraceable guns to unidentified strangers the problem will never be solvable. Yes, that probably will need a law change to prevent that, but sometimes a change in the law can be a positive.

CNN admitted in the video that it was illegal to be sold those firearms without the seller demanding ID. That's yet another law that is clearly not being enforced, so why assume another law might be?
I think "no ID required" only applies if both parties reside in the same state, but without requiring ID how do you prove that...

Even if a state allows friend to friend transfers with no FFL, if you want to sell a gun privately you can use an FFL to transfer it, the fee is usually $20-$40. I think you will find in the USA in states where FTF transfers are permitted within state lines, mostly it's family and Christmas presents. Gang bangers are not buying hunting rifles.

Unregistered, untraceable guns are a problem in Australia with gangs making their own submachine guns. Clearly the laws didn't stop that.

I think people have to get out of this vision of believing that all these laws and more laws and more laws just automatically fix problems and make them go away to where we live in utopia. There will always be bad people and what stops them is harsh penalties for their behavior.

[wanneroo]

[ The problem in america is they are all f***ed in the head. Canadians, kiwis and a host of other relevant nations don't just lose there s**t and shoot everyone.

Succinct.
I'm sure as whole the people of the US are genuinely good people but their system is so fundamentally flawed that it produces a large number of complete nut jobs with extremely violent ideations.

BS. There are just as many crazy people in Australia. Australia has plenty of serial killers and gangbangers. Keep in mind Australia's total population would fit in the whole Los Angeles/San Diego metro area. It's a small population in comparison.

[wanneroo]

wannaroo said in his last post that firearms have to be marked with manufacturer and serial number in the US
so really these guys in the vid Gaz, selling the guns without are crooks who deserve the full force of the law, they are not law abiding citizens
who is responsible for enforcing the law mate who has dropped the ball, but who gets the blame and has to pay

how many storeys of this nature do you read about and the FBI or local authority's new about the perp and did not act

The 1968 GCA codified serial numbers on guns. You do not have to serial number a gun you make but you do if you sell it.

However home built guns are not a problem. It's too much work for criminals when they can use a straw buyer or drive a truck through a front window of a gun shop at 2 AM. I have only heard of one case in California where cops found a parts kit home built style gun at a crime scene. There might be more, but it's not a problem.

There are 30000 gun laws on the books in the USA and even within this thread you can see where I'm like you can do this, you can do that, depends what state you are in yadda yadda. I have no surprise that some in the USA do not know the laws inside and out and out of ignorance break them.

Big government failed in the Florida now they want to give us more big government.

[wanneroo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nROWwJfdueY

Skip to 21:50 to see how the Police and 23:30 Council officials explain that if they'd known he had access to firearms they wouldn't have been treating him this way.

It's not a conspiracy, our government, and all governments, want a disarmed public they can kick around as they see fit.

People should read up on the fall of the Russian Empire. When the "Reds" took over a city one of their first aims was to round up all the firearms and execute their owners with them. One cull in Moscow resulted in thousands dead. The Nazis enacted similar gun control in the 1930's.

Government is the biggest killer of all. Terrorists, criminals, school shooters are not even a statistical burble compared to governments.

[Gaznazdiak]

What happened in Russia, over 100 years ago, and Germany 80 years ago are historical fact, that's true.
But seriously, when was the last time the Australian gov attacked and massacred a mass of Australian citizens?
When was the last time the American gov slaughtered a mass of their citizens?
Yes governments, ours included, have killed a lot of people, even right now, but all the mass killing by US and Aust govs in the last 100 years have been in wars overseas, not directed at their own poulation.
This business of"we need to be armed to defend ourselves from Malcolm Turnbull" is paranoid nonsense and feeds directly into the anti-gun agenda and gets every farmer who needs to control ferals and sporting shooter branded as violent crazies.

[wanneroo]

What happened in Russia, over 100 years ago, and Germany 80 years ago are historical fact, that's true.
But seriously, when was the last time the Australian gov attacked and massacred a mass of Australian citizens?
When was the last time the American gov slaughtered a mass of their citizens?
Yes governments, ours included, have killed a lot of people, even right now, but all the mass killing by US and Aust govs in the last 100 years have been in wars overseas, not directed at their own poulation.
This business of"we need to be armed to defend ourselves from Malcolm Turnbull" is paranoid nonsense and feeds directly into the anti-gun agenda and gets every farmer who needs to control ferals and sporting shooter branded as violent crazies.

I don't think you understand. We have lots of guns so we don't have to use them, much like the Swiss. I would never take anything for granted. We have plenty of people in both countries that would love to impose a totalitarian state and if anything take rights away or restrict them more. Also you never know when a global disaster could happen where there is a breakdown in rule of law in your neighborhood.

Whatever it is, I think being able to defend your life from being taken from whoever it might be is a fundamental human right.

[Gaznazdiak]

Wannaroo
I totally agree with your last comment, particularly the self defence.
I haven't attended martial arts training since breaking my neck and back in a car accident 22 years ago, but to this day, if I use the lifelong reflex-responses gained from 15 years of training I am likely to be charged, even when defending against an attack.
What I do feel is important, though, is that we avoid voicing things that the lace-panties, anti-guns-at-all-costs soft-c*cks will use to paint us as dangerous loons.
They do that as it is, they don't need our help.
It sh*ts the hell out of me that through no fault of our own we have to tip-toe to avoid being branded by these cunning stunts, but it is what it is.

[wanneroo]

What I do feel is important, though, is that we avoid voicing things that the lace-panties, anti-guns-at-all-costs soft-c*cks will use to paint us as dangerous loons.
They do that as it is, they don't need our help.
It sh*ts the hell out of me that through no fault of our own we have to tip-toe to avoid being branded by these cunning stunts, but it is what it is.

I think actually the problem is that we don't argue our side but often sit and take it.

I would say gun owners tend to be more conservative, responsible people who are focused on working and their families and hence on average are just kind people who want to get along with their neighbors. They often don't have much time to be advocates for any political or cultural position. On the other side we have a lot of angry leftists who majored in gender studies and who have nothing better to do than be on the attack railing against normal society and normal behavior. They've taken over a lot of the media, culture and the politics.

I think instead of continuing to let them define you and me, we need to define them and argue our side. Personally myself I don't let people define me and my views, I research them and then I can argue any position I take with anyone. I'll debate anyone on my opinions. Gun owners in Australia ended up with the government up their butt because they sat there and took it. There was no organized movement to say uh hey wait a minute, because of one bad act we don't throw our rights in the rubbish bin. I think us Americans are learning from that, that we can't sit by and let others define us and sit and watch.

[Gaznazdiak]

Wannaroo
Well said mate. Gender studies, what a crock, eh? I've been studying the feminine gender all my life, didn't know until recently you could get a degree in it.
Below is how I see gun owners arguing with antis.

[straightshooter]

MassShootingsCartoon.jpg (48.97 KiB) Viewed 7230 times

[Bigjobss]

https://youtu.be/p4j7tYihvJM

Good newly released video about the facts of guns vs homicide in the USA, worth the 4min to see the statistics that the left continually ignores.

[Hugh]

BS. There are just as many crazy people in Australia. Australia has plenty of serial killers and gangbangers. Keep in mind Australia's total population would fit in the whole Los Angeles/San Diego metro area. It's a small population in comparison.[/quote]
Figures don't bear that out,La homicide rate last year 6.3 per 100000,Au 1 per 100000 2013=2014 and decreasing,might point out LA rate is down from 36 per 100000 1989,AU same year was 1.8 per 100000.I have travelled extensively in US and there are a lot more crazy people than here.Not that the people are any different just complete lack of health care for anybody poor [over 50 percent live under the poverty line in USA]here you get treated poor or not,unbelievable the number of people you see with hare lip in states,here its just fixed at birth with our flawed but great health sys.USA 2743 serial killers,AU 75, USA pop 325.7mil 2017, Au 24.1mil.doing the math USA has 1 in every118738 persons to Au 1 in 327397 about one third of US rate.Other factors come into it in au if you are charged with a violent crime or even have a AVO taken out against you you lose your guns and cant get them back for a while even when AVO runs out.Their not bad people I could live in the US just not in one of their cities or really poor areas,most of the people in their country areas are like Australians were 25 years ago.We love going there and have only felt unsafe a couple of times where I wished I could conceled carry but getting a firearm as a tourist is nearly impossible.