What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

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What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by andym79 » 30 Aug 2016, 4:37 pm

Hi guys, I am looking to re-barrel a martini cadet and want to know what cartridges can make it round and in to the chamber?

22 hornet OK
218 bee OK
222R OK
25-20 OK
25-35 ?
30 herrett ?
30-30 ?
32-20 OK
32-40 ?
357 mag OK
357 max ?
357 herret ?

I kind of fancy either a 32-20 shooting big bullets, a 32-40 or 357 herrett. I wondered if anyone knows exactly what length cartridge you can get in okay; obviously a tapered case could be longer than a straight one.
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Chronos » 30 Aug 2016, 5:52 pm

anything up to .44mag, nothing too long or it wont load. a wise man (I think he's a member here now) once told me up to the pressure of .223 or the size of .44mag but not both

I'm doing one in .20-.222R IMP I've been told the smith runs a .204ruger reamer shallow then shortend .204ruger dies to suit. should be good for 32gr at 3400fps,


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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Tripod » 30 Aug 2016, 9:48 pm

I have a barrel and dies in 357 Bain & Davis if you are interested.
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by snag » 30 Aug 2016, 9:52 pm

I have seen one in .30/30 and have one in .219 Zipper, which is the .30/30 necked down to .224.
The pen may be mightier than the sword, but personally I prefer the .30/30 Winchester.
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by COLLECTOR 1 » 30 Aug 2016, 10:39 pm

And just to throw more confusion at you I've got one in 223 Rem and I run a rimless extractor....works a treat....and accuracy is great with 50 gun projectiles ...

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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by andym79 » 30 Aug 2016, 10:59 pm

Is this the beast
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Chronos » 30 Aug 2016, 10:59 pm

Tripod wrote:I have a barrel and dies in 357 Bain & Davis if you are interested.


If I wasn't after a light weight varmint gun I'd be all over this

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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by andym79 » 30 Aug 2016, 11:00 pm

COLLECTOR 1 wrote:And just to throw more confusion at you I've got one in 223 Rem and I run a rimless extractor....works a treat....and accuracy is great with 50 gun projectiles ...

Collector 1


How much modification is needed to do rimless?

How much extra cash?
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by COLLECTOR 1 » 31 Aug 2016, 6:25 am

No work at all....take the old extractor out...new rimless version in....Graham Spraggon from Tamworth NSW has them. I think from memory they are worth about $200 odd dollars....I don't have a current contact number but he regularly advertises on Used Guns.

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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Tripod » 31 Aug 2016, 7:46 am

andym79 wrote:Is this the beast

That's the one, 44Mag necked down to 357. Common cases, Common projectiles, Making an interesting cartridge without the supply problems of the past.
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Strikey » 31 Aug 2016, 7:05 pm

Chronos wrote:anything up to .44mag, nothing too long or it wont load. a wise man (I think he's a member here now) once told me up to the pressure of .223 or the size of .44mag but not both

I'm doing one in .20-.222R IMP I've been told the smith runs a .204ruger reamer shallow then shortend .204ruger dies to suit. should be good for 32gr at 3400fps,


Chronos


That sounds interesting, would it be similar to the 20 Vartarg?
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by andym79 » 31 Aug 2016, 8:34 pm

Would a 31-222R (.312") or a 33-222R (.338") be crazy?
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Tripod » 31 Aug 2016, 9:15 pm

Have you looked into how much a custom one off reamer is going to cost and custom dies as well?
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Gamerancher » 01 Sep 2016, 8:31 am

Seems Andym79 just wants a personal "wildcat" that no-one else has. If that's what floats your boat, good luck to you. Remember though, just because you haven't heard of it don't mean it hasn't been done before. Unless there is a distinct advantage in "wildcatting" something it can be an expensive and pointless exercise.
Just about every commercial cartridge has been "wildcatted", necked-up, down, lengthened, shortened, improved, etc within a couple of years of release. Some then go on to be commercial in their own right, .22-250, 7-08, .260rem to name but a few. ( Remington tend to pick up on popular wildcats)
Manufacturers do it themselves, .30-30 Winchester is derived from the older .38-55 for example. Make the new from something you already manufacture makes good commercial sense.
If you have bucket loads of old cases you don't use that you can turn into something that you can use then have at it.
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by andym79 » 01 Sep 2016, 9:44 am

Gamerancher wrote:Seems Andym79 just wants a personal "wildcat" that no-one else has. If that's what floats your boat, good luck to you. Remember though, just because you haven't heard of it don't mean it hasn't been done before. Unless there is a distinct advantage in "wildcatting" something it can be an expensive and pointless exercise.
Just about every commercial cartridge has been "wildcatted", necked-up, down, lengthened, shortened, improved, etc within a couple of years of release. Some then go on to be commercial in their own right, .22-250, 7-08, .260rem to name but a few. ( Remington tend to pick up on popular wildcats)
Manufacturers do it themselves, .30-30 Winchester is derived from the older .38-55 for example. Make the new from something you already manufacture makes good commercial sense.
If you have bucket loads of old cases you don't use that you can turn into something that you can use then have at it.



There is an element of truth in that, and there probably is something almost the same as all my suggestions already out there. Often though you don't know its name!

Part of what is driving my desire for a wildcat is that with the exception of my 22cals I shot exclusively cast bullets; now at typical jacketed velocities that means a lot of the case is full of powder, but at cast speeds, you often find that a lot of the case is empty.

Cases like the 25-20 and 32-20 are good in this respect as you can pretty much fill them up! I am considering doing a 25-20 or 32-20 using a 1:10 twist barrel so that I can shoot a bigger bullets, but with the advantage of still filling the case unlike in the rifle version i.e 25-35 and 30-30.

However a 32-20 with a 1:10 would let me shot 100-200 grain bullets, but unlike the proposed wildcat 222 derivative wouldn't give me the option to push the big or small bullets faster should I want to. I guess what I am saying is that I consider the 222/223 case capacity to be a sweet spot "the goldilocks cartridge for my requirements". Only not if its propelling a 22 projectile, the bee or hornet would come closer to my unusual taste in 22 cal!
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Gamerancher » 01 Sep 2016, 10:13 am

Fair enough. I have a .300 whisper that I shoot cast bullets in. Works well. Your thinking would give you something like that. Any of the TCU cartridges built on the .223 case would work also.
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by gunnnie » 06 Sep 2016, 10:49 am

A guru worth having a chat with is Alan Swan in SE Qld. He has been working on Cadets in various forms for at least the last 40yrs that I know of.
I'll be getting Alan to make up a 20-222R next year. There is also a Martini Henry big frame that I'm getting him to work over.
He also makes a rimless extractor for the Cadet.
As you shoot cast I would suggest a 25-35. This will fit the action and you could go with 120gn pills.
Alan also opens the threads up to accept Win Mod 92 barrels so you could look at 44-40 for some 240gn cast over TrailBoss goodness.
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by andym79 » 19 Sep 2016, 9:38 pm

Hi gunnnie, he is actually the guy I use to do my gun smithing, even though I live in Adelaide! Why, four reasons:

1. He seemed to know what he was talking about and seems to have work on just about every kind of long arm.
2. He has a full service set up, providing just about everything you could want, barrels, barrels contoured how you want them, bluing etc.
3. He has a large selection of reamers!
4. Even though he seems busy all the time, he manages to turn around projects in a reasonable time frame, ( a couple of guys I spoke to in SA either could do all I wanted, didn't have the reamers (and I am not talking about weird ones) or wanted a year to actually get it done!)

He has done done a 25-35 and 25-20 for me recently both to a high standard, he is currently doing a 218 bee, which i think will be done soon, the barrel was being profiled last week.

Anyway we he calls about my bee I will pick his brains.

In the mean time would a 357 MAX work in the cadet?
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Tank » 20 Sep 2016, 12:16 am

andym79 wrote:Hi gunnnie, he is actually the guy I use to do my gun smithing, even though I live in Adelaide! Why, four reasons:

1. He seemed to know what he was talking about and seems to have work on just about every kind of long arm.
2. He has a full service set up, providing just about everything you could want, barrels, barrels contoured how you want them, bluing etc.
3. He has a large selection of reamers!
4. Even though he seems busy all the time, he manages to turn around projects in a reasonable time frame, ( a couple of guys I spoke to in SA either could do all I wanted, didn't have the reamers (and I am not talking about weird ones) or wanted a year to actually get it done!)

He has done done a 25-35 and 25-20 for me recently both to a high standard, he is currently doing a 218 bee, which i think will be done soon, the barrel was being profiled last week.

Anyway we he calls about my bee I will pick his brains.

In the mean time would a 357 MAX work in the cadet?


Not sure why you ask the question Andy.....seems to me you would qualify as 'more than knowledgeable' when it comes to 'what might work' in a Cadet. I think your list is pretty comprehensive....
So, the 25-35 and the 25-20 both on the Cadet action?
I'm looking to do a 256 Win Mag on a spare action I've just picked up.....Thoughts?
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by andym79 » 20 Sep 2016, 5:51 am

No, I was not clear it made it sound like in a cadet, those two jobs that he did for me are in a Winnie 94 and Winnie 92!
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by andym79 » 03 Oct 2016, 9:37 am

Would a 219 zipper be okay or too much pressure?
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Tripod » 03 Oct 2016, 10:08 am

andym79 wrote:Would a 219 zipper be okay or too much pressure?

I don't see too much factory ammo around so you can reload to whatever levels you are happy with, The Cadets handle a lot of pressure and the first sign you are getting too high is the case wont extract.
One way to avoid the next person blowing themself up is to get the smith to cut the chamber 60thou short and cut the rim separate, Then you cut the dies shorter by the same amount and call it a 219 Zipper Short. A factory round wont chamber so problem solved.
Just done a Marlin in .224 Savage Hi-power (.224 instead of the original .227) Loaded for it yesterday and can't wait to get to the range.
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Chunder » 09 Feb 2017, 10:09 am

Tripod wrote:I have a barrel and dies in 357 Bain & Davis if you are interested.

Hello Tripod
Do you still have this barrel.
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by ultramag » 19 Mar 2017, 12:12 pm

Hi , i would like to share my experience with the Cadet action .
I have a 12/15 thickwall in 220 swift "YES" 220 swift. The 220 wby rocket also makes it around the bend .The barrel tennon is .810 x 20 TPI pretty much what the win 94 lever action is , this leaves plenty of meat on both action and chamber walls .The swift being semi rimmed is also ideal in the fact you don't require a rimless extractor .
Another project that has turned out very well is put a match 223 ackly reamer in to head space on a necked up 204 case . Use the easily obtainable 223 ackly dies with a spacer and away you go .3 750 fps with 50gn V-Max and open the action and the case falls out .( i am using a Snapps rimless extractor .)
I have used Hennessy's in Townsville , Owen is very knowledgeable and seems enthusiastic to get the work done on interesting projects .
My latest build is 30-30 ackley benchrest rifle on a standard model 12 cadet , nearly same case capacity as 30BR , should be fun .
Cheers
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Tripod » 20 Mar 2017, 10:01 am

Chunder wrote:
Tripod wrote:I have a barrel and dies in 357 Bain & Davis if you are interested.

Hello Tripod
Do you still have this barrel.
Chunder

Yes but it is no longer available as I just bought a Marlin 44mag to rebarrel into 357B&D
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Dtm » 29 Jun 2018, 12:15 am

Greetings All. I am new to this Forum and I think I may have posted on another thread thinking it was this one.

I am interested in a Martini Cadet or 1215 chambered in 30-30 Winchester. I note that there are a couple references in this thread regarding personal experiences with this set-up. I also see that there are a couple gunsmiths here in QLD whom I can speak to regarding works on Cadets. Look forward to learning more.

Hi ultramag, How did your 30-30 ackley project go. Sounds like the type of rig I have been considering.

Cheers to everyone.
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by gunnnie » 30 Jun 2018, 9:17 am

Good to see the old Martini has a growing following.
My 20-222Rimmed is underway and should be ready in the coming month. Dies have been bought, projectiles bought, timber organised, buttpad & cases sourced.

Managed to reload some different loads for the Cadet 357Mag I have. Found that I had limited choices for use in the 357Mag case. Ended up with a 200gn pill that I'll need to to spend more time developing a good load with. Thankfully the rifle hs a very heavy barrel as recoil would be energetic in a lighter Cadet.

Once the 20cal is done I'll be looking to start on a large framed Martini Enfield chambered in 45Long Colt.
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by Dtm » 30 Jun 2018, 9:18 pm

Hi Gunny. About 10 years ago, I had the opportunity on two occasions to buy a martini cadet in 357 magnum and then a 222 rimmed, both in very good condition, accurate and at great prices for the time. I passed on both as I was really looking for a calibre with the versatiliy for use in the occasional range match (non competitive) and for hunting. I know the cadet can be built in 30-30, 32 winchester special and 7-30 waters cartridges. Of these three I would prefer the 7-30 waters for cartridge performance in the field, but the 30-30 is the more practical and logical choice, for better component costs, greater range of bullet profile and weights, availability of more factory ammo and retail carriers, without the additional work of case resizing for the 7-30 waters.
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by gunnnie » 01 Jul 2018, 10:20 am

Have heard of guys making up Cadets in the larger/longer case formats such as the 30-30. Remember reading a post several years back from someone who had one and was thinking of re-barrelling to something else. He found that Cadet in 30-30 to be too much recoil wise. He'd tried to set it up as a light weight stalking rifle which is fine but a lot of thought needs to go into stock measurement and design otherwise the recoil will make it a handful.

As for me I'd rather look to a Ruger No1 or 3 action, or even a Pedersoli Hi-Wall, if I was to go with longer/heavier calibre setups. For me the Cadet is best suited to calibres up to 257 in longer cartridge formats, such as the 25-35, or even the 219 Zipper. Anything larger such as the 357Mag/Max, the Cadet is best suited to pistol cartridge format.

This is just my opinion and what I perceive the Cadets to be best suited to. Horses for courses.
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Re: What size cartridges can fit into a martini cadet?

Post by RoginaJack » 01 Jul 2018, 10:59 am

8-) By the way, I had a 218 Bee Imp. on a Cadet action and this was a tack driver... :thumbsup:
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