Even the SSAA clubs are sick of how SSAA represents us :-)

[WatchyShooter]

SUA is definitely the way to go over the SSAA, they may be a little disorganized but they're still small in comparison. Personally, I'd never give a dime to the SSAA considering how they've treated shooters so poorly over the years. I'm also glad to hear Firearm Owners United have become a non for profit organisation as they've been very vocal for firearm rights since creating their FB page roughly 2 years ago.

Like I’ve pointed out, if anyone’s done amazing things for LAFO it’s FOU.

LDP>SFFP>SUA> anyone else

[Yipikaye]

What alternative is there to SSAA if you want to shoot rimfire and centre fire in northern Sydney and Malabar ANZAC range? I'm not sure I'll renew this year. Alpine club looks good but membship is nearly$500!

[juststarting]

Yipikaye, I must admit I don't know about Northern Sydney and Malabar ANZAC ranges, I am from VIC. Here, you don't need to be a member to attend SSAA range. I am sure at some stage they will force people to do this, because they are c*** and loosing members, but at this stage we can attend any local SSAA range. It costs I think $5 or so more though.

[Yipikaye]

I think I could shoot at SSAA range And pay at little more but I was a bit put off when my mate who is new went to the range on the weekend and they gave him a hard time for not bringing hearing protection (even though it does say on the website the club can provide)

[juststarting]

Well, now you're just looking for for flaws... At least he wont forget

[Yipikaye]

Hehe true. He will never forget again. Not sure if he would come again though

[Sarco]

I have now received my postal ballot papers now for the Vic election of candidates and read through the SSAA Vic introductory stuff and the candidate blurbs.

Firstly, I read (and it was a surprise to me) that 180 days prior notification is required for matters to be raised by members present!

Secondly, I noted that it indicates the the financials will not be available til late Aug 17, with the AGM mid Sep (17th). As the SSAA Vic FY ends 30 Apr, if last year is an example, the audit not being signed off till 9 Aug is not really good enough (or the business conduct of the organisation is fearfully convoluted and is an auditors worst nightmare). This leaves minimal time for members to adequately review the financials and decided if their is anything which requires further explanation/clarification at the AGM,

As such, with the 180 day notification, how does a member raise matters relating to the financials?

Sarco

[bigfellascott]

I gave the SSAA the arse years ago, got sick of their bulls**t and refuse to support people like that.

[Gwion]

That is just unacceptable!

[Cryptic]

Signed up to the cheap deal for life membership to SUA. Will keep my local indoor non SSAA pistol club membership and join one of the QRA facility shared clubs for rifle and pistol.
Have no interest in anything SSAA does the way they seem to carry on.

[bladeracer]

I'm curious what the SSAA apologists feelings are about this type of infighting. What are they offering to show that this sort of thing is perfectly okay?

It’s in direct contradiction with their own constitution, they vow to work to progress our rights.

I asked how this is helping via FB.
Banned from the SSAA page

I think it's time to send a message by cancelling my membership (again!) and telling them why.

[Oldbloke]

I have now received my postal ballot papers now for the Vic election of candidates and read through the SSAA Vic introductory stuff and the candidate blurbs.

Firstly, I read (and it was a surprise to me) that 180 days prior notification is required for matters to be raised by members present!

Secondly, I noted that it indicates the the financials will not be available til late Aug 17, with the AGM mid Sep (17th). As the SSAA Vic FY ends 30 Apr, if last year is an example, the audit not being signed off till 9 Aug is not really good enough (or the business conduct of the organisation is fearfully convoluted and is an auditors worst nightmare). This leaves minimal time for members to adequately review the financials and decided if their is anything which requires further explanation/clarification at the AGM,

As such, with the 180 day notification, how does a member raise matters relating to the financials?

Sarco

Same here. 180 days is stupid.
I think this will be my last year.

[bladeracer]

I gave the SSAA the arse years ago, got sick of their bulls**t and refuse to support people like that.

Me too but members here managed to convince me to try them again. Their efforts were wasted I'm afraid.

[WatchyShooter]

I gave the SSAA the arse years ago, got sick of their bulls**t and refuse to support people like that.

Me too but members here managed to convince me to try them again. Their efforts were wasted I'm afraid.

Like I pointed out on their Facebook page, take the 180k members they claim, and x that by what the lowest membership option is and ask yourself, do you see that returned to the community or used to lobby and progress shooters rights?

Then take a look at the organisations that are out in public, making the effort the effect change, and doing it without all that funding.

Just imagine what those other orgs could do if they had the kind of funding SSAA have

[bigfellascott]

Too be fair it's not all the clubs that are the problem, it's more the management at the national and state levels that I'm not real fussed on, there are lots of little SSAA affiliated clubs that are working hard to get things right for their members.

[Oldbloke]

There are a fair few organisations out there. What is needed is an umbrella organisation to bring them all together. I thought SSAA would take on that leadership position but seems they are not capable.

[marksman]

Hi guy's, my first post has to be about politics hey LOL
the ssaa vic are just a bunch of crooks, I read earlier how a poster thinks highly of the chief range officer at little river and that he should be training the ignorant RO's or be made a permanent worker there to make sure things are done right,
seriously I nearly fell over laughing, he does train all the RO's and wont be made a permanent worker there as he would loose his pension if he did, he gets paid as a volunteer as an out of pocket expense like the others, they have at the moment 4 permanent RO's and the rest are paid volunteers, that goes against the ATO rules that state a volunteer cannot do the work of a paid worker or would be considered a worker and pay tax (someone is getting a kickback at the ATO to allow this I'm sure), there chief range officer is the reason you go to little river and don't know till you get there what the rules are going to be for that day, he changes them and only tells one or to of his suckhole RO's so when you go there and they tell you do this but the last 10 times you did not have to and the next time you go you wont have to again. they do not follow fairwork, workcare, volunteer australia or any laws or legislation unless its suits them, they don't even keep the RO's current with first aid certificate's.
under the current leadership the ssaa IMO is a Farkup waiting to happen, as anyone who goes to little river will know the RO's are not very firearm savy, the latest bit of gossip I heard was that while one RO was chasing roos off the range the other two RO's who were busy having a yarn did not see a shooter grab his rifle and watch the RO chasing the roos off through his scope,
I have been thinking of rejoining although it would hurt as I dont like giving my hard earned money to crooks so the board can have a pissup but I feel the need for insurance and they have a very good policy, so like quite a few others I may be a member just to be insured,
these people running ssaa vic do not follow laws of the land and do what they want but not for you
I could keep on going, dont believe a word from them

[juststarting]

marksman, as much as I think SSAA are useless and unlike you they will not get a cent from me (insurance can come from home and content), I completely disagree with you on everything you said above. Every single RO at the range I dealt with is in fact 'firearms savvy'. Speaking from experience. I had all sorts of jams, malfunctions and ******. And while being quite inexperienced, at least then, first people to the rescue, strip my gun, fix it and put it back together again were ROs. And then there were other silly things, that could easily get me banned form the range (unintentionally of course) - again, dealt with in a very friendly manner... I think you are just angry about something specific... Did you get yelled at

Watching an RO through a scope, I assure you, that person would be yelled at by other shooters, seen it done before when someone did 'something silly'. Don't spread bulls**t if you don't have first hand experience.

As per rule changes - the on and off again, do you have something specific you could share?

[marksman]

politics, there's always guys that agree and disagree LOL
to be fair juststarting I shouldn't have said all the RO"s at little river not firearms savvy or suckhole's LOL there are a couple of the older ones who are good value,
but there is no farking way in hell I would let any one them strip my rifle, period, mate you have a long way to go if you do, and by the way the RO's cannot ban you.
and as per rule change's, looks like you frequent the range but "wont be a member" Hmmm so you go to the office get a rule book and see what the rules actually say,
I also wanted the insurance because of the public liability while hunting, not on your home and contents is it
you are quite welcome to disagree with me in fact I invite it as it will high light the fact that the ssaa vic are crooks and bring out much more of the ****** that goes on there, I think I have shared enough with you for the moment but I can see much more of it coming out soon

[juststarting]

Fare enough. Won't find me disagreeing with general SSAA opinions. Btw shooters union does liability insurance too...

[Archie]

....he gets paid as a volunteer as an out of pocket expense like the others, they have at the moment 4 permanent RO's and the rest are paid volunteers, that goes against the ATO rules that state a volunteer cannot do the work of a paid worker or would be considered a worker and pay tax (someone is getting a kickback at the ATO to allow this I'm sure)...

Great, no doubt you've reported your information to the relevant authorities. Tax fraud and corruption in the ATO is a serious matter. For what its worth though, the rules don't say that the volunteer can't do the work of a paid worker. It's more that they can't get paid in the same form as a paid worker, i.e. it can't be an obligation on the part of the organisation, it has to be a fairly token amount that the volunteer doesn't rely on for their income etc. "Paid volunteers" aren't the problem. Volunteers recieving a defacto salary might be. Although even if that is the case I don't for a second believe that someone is bribing the ATO over it. Link here: https://www.ato.gov.au/Non-profit/your- ... olunteers/

More to the point - and I'm no great fan of the SSAA either - you can get your public liability insurance elsewhere. I get mine through the Australian Deer Association, similar $20m for legal hunting deal. There are probably other clubs as well with similar plans.

[Gun-nut]

Hmmmm, seems like we should put a thread together about all the different organisations in their respective states. Might help newcomers who are just getting their licence and need to join a club, with what organisations are worth joining, and which ones are not.

[marksman]

I really don't know where I got the information making me believe that a volunteer cant do the work of a paid employee so thanks for straightening me out with that Archie, obviously you are in the know, the ssaa vic are still in the wrong as far as the ATO and having volunteers goes on there public range as if you read the type of worker definition's www.ato.gov.au/Non-profit/Your-workers/Type-of-worker/ it points out under volunteer "a genuine volunteer does not work under a contractual obligation for remuneration and would not be an employee or independent contractor", all the RO's at little river get the same money as the permanents $22 per hour, and under employee definition it say's "generally, an individual is considered to be an employee if they meet the following requirements:" >are paid for time worked, >must perform the duties of there position, >have work hours set by agreement or award, >are recognised as part and parcel of your organisations business. as I said before the RO's volunteer or permanent get paid the same by the hour, the RO's are given start and finish time's that they must do, all RO's take orders and must perform there given duties and the RO's are part and parcel of the organisations business, how could you have a range without an RO
and yes I do have disgruntled inside info

the worry for the RO's is that if a volunteer does the wrong thing while doing his work it goes back to the unincorporated non for profit business but the permanents are liable for there mishaps and that bunch of crooks would let them burn

you might say what could possibly go wrong , something like about 2 years ago an RO was confronted in 2 different melbourne gun shops with "WTF are you RO's doing at little river" what had happened was a customer had a live round stuck in his chamber with the bolt not quite fully closed and could not shoot it or open the bolt, the RO's, who are still there, sent the customer home with the cocked rifle in a considered loaded condition and told him to take his rifle to a gunsmith or shop to be repaired, so the customer is driving all over with a loaded rifle trying to find someone to open his bolt, that rifle should have never left the firing line in that condition, one of the gun shops opened the bolt tapping it with a bit of wood. one of the reasons I say they are not gun savvy and it is not in there training as an RO

anyway thanks for the heads up on the shooters union and the ada being a source for public liability insurance I will definitely be looking into that
I think I've vented enough for now

[duncan61]

There is a topic going on about case preparation before reloading.How did someone get a stuck round?How is that the ranges fault?When I target shoot I take a tool kit and cleaning kit with a bullet puller and soft hide mallet.Correct me if I am wrong but if the bolt handle can be tapped closed and shot off the case will extract easier.I had a situation where one of the other Kangaroo shooters where I worked at the tourist resort turned up with a stuck round.For some unknown reason he had taken the woodwork off.He asked me what to do and I very clearly told him to put the stock back on and take the quad bike and drive out the bush away from the van park and let it go.We were on a few million acres so no problem.He ignored me and kept opening and closing the bolt and a few days later he shot it by accident sitting in their camp and missed the guy he was shooting with by a few feet.Then he tapped the empty case with a cleaning rod and it fell out.Your man who had to get a gun shop to tap his bolt free with a bit of wood should not have a firearm.He took it away and drove around with it.

[duncan61]

This same clown who nearly shot his mate was stirring me a few days earlier about how I used a case polisher and how they just kept loading and never cleaned their rifles

[juststarting]

Reading this, and my opinion is starting to drift, just wow

[JimmyS]

I think we all just wanna go to the range and have a good time, why is there even all this bulls**t politics involved? We all want to do the same thing, shoot at targets, pieces of metal, hunt and improve our skills in relation to shooting.
I wonder if America has the same issues as we do here.

[duncan61]

I am greatful we have Ranges to go to as and when we like.They are usually manned by more mature people with a wealth of experiance

[bladeracer]

I am greatful we have Ranges to go to as and when we like.They are usually manned by more mature people with a wealth of experiance

Mildura is the only range I'm aware of where we can go whenever we wish. There are heaps on non-SSAA ranges around me, but none of them are open every day, even for members. My nearest SSAA range is only open two days per month.

[marksman]

duncan61 you tell a very good story,
your question about "how did someone get a stuck round? how is that the ranges fault" highlights ignorant ambiguous thoughts about the responsibility's at a range and give thought to a question "why do you have to get your firearms cleared before you can take them off a firing line?" and " is it the responsibility of the customer to clear his own firearm?" really don't think so it's the RO's job to confirm your firearm is clear before you can take it away and if you shoot comp target shooting you know it, at little river you cannot take a firearm off the firing line without it being cleared unless it is in the to hard basket because the RO's don't know how to deal with it, like this incident we are talking about, I hope you understand this is not you and your mates shooting on some private property we are talking about

you can get a stuck round from factory ammo, seen it heaps, a lot of tikka t3's have tight chambers and don't like ppu ammo as it may be very tight to chamber, some cant chamber ppu factory ammo at all, its not a bad thing a tight chamber is IMO good

what Jimmys said is spot on