Zeroing in scope

Rifle scopes, iron sights and optics. Spotting scopes and target acquisition devices.

Zeroing in scope

Post by JWS_777 » 01 Sep 2017, 8:53 am

Hi All,

I've just had the scope fitted to my 57 Brno Mod 2 and aim to visit a range in the coming weeks. Is zeroing the scope in at 50m the way to go?

The use of the rifle will be for bunnies/ foxes and some target stuff. Providing the gun likes it the ammunition will be Winchester power-points (40 grain).

See attached pic. Been a 3 month journey getting to this point.

Cheers
Attachments
image9.jpeg
image9.jpeg (910.51 KiB) Viewed 7254 times
JWS_777
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 16
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by in2anity » 01 Sep 2017, 9:02 am

Well I zero for 40m, then I know exactly how many clicks to come up for 60m, 77m and 100m; that's +11,+12,+17 = 40 (using subs). In case you didn't notice that's the rimfire silhouette distances! Does this translate well back into hunting scenarios? yep sure does! I'm very confident to take a head-shot on a bunny anywhere inside 100m provided I'm given a moment to tweak my sights.

But probably the most important point here though is stick to the one ammo type and zero and practice, practice, practice! Then tweaking you sights becomes a no-brainer...

But for purely hunting scenarios IMO a 75 yards zero is better; have a read of this chuckhawks article on the subject matter: http://www.chuckhawks.com/sight_22_75yds.html
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by JWS_777 » 01 Sep 2017, 9:33 am

Great info and appreciated the reply. All makes sense and I'm definitely looking to hit the range many a time re practice.

Thanks for sharing.
JWS_777
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 16
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by in2anity » 01 Sep 2017, 9:57 am

:drinks:
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by in2anity » 01 Sep 2017, 11:54 am

For those of us who CBF reading the article; for hunting purposes if you want to always just point-and-shoot, a ~66m zero is optimal, don't take shots past ~82m and always stick to the one brand of supersonic ammunition. This way you will have a maximum variation of +/-1.5" inside 82m.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by bladeracer » 01 Sep 2017, 3:06 pm

in2anity wrote:For those of us who CBF reading the article; for hunting purposes if you want to always just point-and-shoot, a ~66m zero is optimal, don't take shots past ~82m and always stick to the one brand of supersonic ammunition. This way you will have a maximum variation of +/-1.5" inside 82m.


Three-inches spread is too much for .22LR in my opinion. You have to add the ability of the rifle to that remember. At 82m you might be lucky to hold 2" groups under field conditions, which gives you a spread potential of anywhere within a five-inch circle.

I would go with a 50m zero which gives you a MPBR of around 60m with only one-inch spread. If youre going to shoot a rabbit past 60m I suggest you hold over whatever is required to get a brain strike, or get closer.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by in2anity » 01 Sep 2017, 3:14 pm

bladeracer wrote:
in2anity wrote:For those of us who CBF reading the article; for hunting purposes if you want to always just point-and-shoot, a ~66m zero is optimal, don't take shots past ~82m and always stick to the one brand of supersonic ammunition. This way you will have a maximum variation of +/-1.5" inside 82m.


Three-inches spread is too much for .22LR in my opinion. You have to add the ability of the rifle to that remember. At 82m you might be lucky to hold 2" groups under field conditions, which gives you a spread potential of anywhere within a five-inch circle.

I would go with a 50m zero which gives you a MPBR of around 60m with only one-inch spread. If youre going to shoot a rabbit past 60m I suggest you hold over whatever is required to get a brain strike, or get closer.


At 82m you'll likely have something to rest on or be able to slip into a kneel or sit; if so my 22 will easily put them into an inch (even under field conditions). The variance is never more than 1.5" + 1" = max spread of -2.5", and that's at 82m. At 50m it'll be max 2" high", at 75m it'll be a max 2" low, keep that in mind and you hit every time.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by bladeracer » 01 Sep 2017, 3:26 pm

in2anity wrote:
bladeracer wrote:At 82m you'll likely have something to rest on or be able to slip into a kneel or sit; if so my 22 will easily put them into an inch (even under field conditions). The variance is never more than 1.5" + 1" = max spread of -2.5", and that's at 82m. At 50m it'll be max 2" high", at 75m it'll be a max 2" low, keep that in mind and you hit every time.


Do you mean by "keeping that in mind" that you are actually making allowance for the trajectory instead of holding dead on?
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by in2anity » 01 Sep 2017, 3:31 pm

bladeracer wrote:Do you mean by "keeping that in mind" that you are actually making allowance for the trajectory instead of holding dead on?

Yep hold a whisker under around 40-50m, and a whisker over for 70-80m (if you want a really precise shot)
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by brett1868 » 01 Sep 2017, 3:42 pm

That counter in the picture is familiar but the vise is on the wrong side of the shop :) What others haven't mentioned yet is that the 22LR can favour a certain type / brand of ammunition. Buy a few different boxes, test them all and settle on the one with the most consistent sized group before buy in bulk. I'm assuming you'll do some testing at the St Marys range and if that's the case get in touch via PM and I'll come along with my assortment on 22LR ammo you can test with.
How's my posting?
Complaints, Concerns - 13 11 14
User avatar
brett1868
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3017
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by BRNO_Bigot » 02 Sep 2017, 1:25 pm

In general - find a brand of ammo your rifle "likes" and practice a lot with that.

When changing brands, clean the barrel before starting with the new stuff and fire 10-20 rounds to "season" the barrel before shooting for groups again. Yes, I know it sounds like voodoo, but it seems to make a difference.

I, personally sight in at 70m and then I'm okay on whatever I want to shoot out to about 85m.

If your game is smaller than the francolin and guinea fowl I was after, sight in a bit closer and (50m) and work from there.

in2anity has some good suggestions, and Brett's offer can't be beaten.
--
It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny
day that you realise how often they burst into flames.
User avatar
BRNO_Bigot
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 224
Australian Capital Territory

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by JWS_777 » 03 Sep 2017, 7:57 pm

Brett you're a champion mate and will PM you. Very generous and actually picked up a couple of boxes that day I visited the store for my scope fitting.
Brno great info and appreciate the reply and info shared.
2nd post but a great forum to be involved with.

Cheers Jimmy
JWS_777
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 16
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by in2anity » 03 Sep 2017, 8:06 pm

Nice rifle too btw JWS - those old mod 2s drive tacks. Plenty of the blokes use them for comp rimfire silhouette and they hold their own against the lithys and annies no worries. Pinnacle of the CZ 22 IMO.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by JWS_777 » 03 Sep 2017, 8:32 pm

Thanks mate, was quite a search to locate an early Mod 2 (in decent condition) but feel honoured to own her! Like the sounds of the comp rimfire and is something I'll look into once I get going.

Got a bunny hunt locked in mid Oct so will share a few pics.

Thanks
JWS_777
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 16
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by scotty87 » 03 Sep 2017, 9:15 pm

I was going to put a Nikon prostaff on my 1967 Brno mod 2 but the iron sights are such a joy to use I'm considering leaving it like that, make sure you try SK standard plus, I've shot moa groups with it in every .22 I've used it in, not sure how it goes on game however
scotty87
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 197
Queensland

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by brett1868 » 03 Sep 2017, 10:21 pm

JWS_777 wrote:Brett you're a champion mate and will PM you. Very generous and actually picked up a couple of boxes that day I visited the store for my scope fitting.
Brno great info and appreciate the reply and info shared.
2nd post but a great forum to be involved with.

Cheers Jimmy


No worries and hopefully the boys at Magnums got you sorted :)
How's my posting?
Complaints, Concerns - 13 11 14
User avatar
brett1868
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3017
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by Wombat » 04 Sep 2017, 8:41 am

Very nice looking model 2, mine is a much used 72 production. The powerpoints do shoot well out of it, but it does shoot even better with SK. What scope did you decide to fit?
Wombat
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 564
Victoria

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by Gamerancher » 04 Sep 2017, 10:40 am

in2anity wrote, "Plenty of the blokes use them for comp rimfire silhouette and they hold their own "
Our National Champion actually uses a bog standard BRNO No.2 barrelled action albeit in a custom off-hand stock with some trigger work done.
I tried to convince a new shooter that was interested in the sport that a Model 2 BRNO was all he needed. That day at the range for a club match, more than 50% of the rifles were BRNO's or CZ's.
User avatar
Gamerancher
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1596
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by JWS_777 » 04 Sep 2017, 11:23 am

Brett - Was served by Phil and he couldn't have been more helpful. Great shop!
Wombat - Thanks mate. It seems to have had limited use/ rifling perfect. I went for a Leupold Vx2 3-9 x 40. Is SK more of a competition round opposed to hunting?
Rancher - Great to hear this. Re competitions is it just case of joining a club then heading to events? I'm not quite ready just yet but may look to do this in the future.
JWS_777
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 16
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by Bent Arrow » 04 Sep 2017, 12:15 pm

SK plus is a mid price point target round. My 1450 Annie loves them. They are a 40 gn round nose lead projectile running at standard velocity. Not really a hunting round, but given my. 177 air rifle drills bunnies at reasonable distances I can't see how they wouldn't get the job done if you put the shot in the right place at sensible distances.....
Bent Arrow
Staff Sergeant
Staff Sergeant
 
Posts: 753
South Australia

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by brett1868 » 04 Sep 2017, 1:07 pm

JWS_777 wrote:Brett - Was served by Phil and he couldn't have been more helpful. Great shop!
Wombat - Thanks mate. It seems to have had limited use/ rifling perfect. I went for a Leupold Vx2 3-9 x 40. Is SK more of a competition round opposed to hunting?
Rancher - Great to hear this. Re competitions is it just case of joining a club then heading to events? I'm not quite ready just yet but may look to do this in the future.


That's twice that Phil has received positive feedback, he was also a big help to another member who was looking to purchase his first pistol. This Saturday morning is looking good for a range trip if you're keen, I'll raid the rim fire safe and bring a sample of what I've got. I have several 22LR rifles and pistols and unfortunately for my wallet they seem to prefer the expensive euro brand ammo. My Lithgow 22Mag loves the cheap CCI stuff which HPGS had on special so I bought a couple bricks.
How's my posting?
Complaints, Concerns - 13 11 14
User avatar
brett1868
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3017
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by Wombat » 04 Sep 2017, 6:30 pm

Did you get a rimfire version? I'm running an older and smaller VX on mine with lower rings than you, but am looking to upgrade it.
The SK rifle match ammo I only ever use at the range a box at a time as its a bit expensive for 22 ammo at around $16 a pack.
The Winchester stuff shoots well enough that Rabbits dont complain.
Wombat
Sergeant
Sergeant
 
Posts: 564
Victoria

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by JWS_777 » 04 Sep 2017, 8:21 pm

Brett - Just shot you a PM.
Wombat - Bit average but I'm not entirely sure as I was directed to this scope by a couple of mates who have Leupolds on their .22s. Had to go for the high rings due o the height of the bolt. Thanks re SK info. Along with the Winchester I was also sold a box of Eley.
JWS_777
Recruit
Recruit
 
Posts: 16
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by Gamerancher » 05 Sep 2017, 9:44 am

JWS, as far as rimfire silhouette goes, they used to shoot it out at Silverdale but last I heard the targets had been pulled out. ( They had a set of resettable targets that worked brilliantly.) Next closest to you would be the range at Hilltop, I believe the Illawarra club shoot some silhouette there. Next closest is the Southern Highlands branch that shoot at the Bowral Pistol club range at the back of the Belanglo State forest. ( Yes, that one.) Your next bet would be ACT club at Majura. A bunch of folk from Sydney shoot there regularly. The club matches are on the 1st Saturday of the month and they welcome new shooters to our sport.

Silhouette is run by SSAA, you don't have to be a member to shoot casually or to try it out but you do if you want to shoot competitions. Don't be afraid to try it out. A lot of people are intimidated when it comes to competition shooting. They needn't be. Ultimately you are competing against yourself, no-one really cares how you shoot as long as you are enjoying yourself and having a go.

Silhouette can be a demanding sport but is is also ,( in my opinion ) a more interactive form of target shooting. You have both a visual and audible result when targets are hit. The clang of the metal target getting hit and the acrobatics of it tumbling through the air are very addictive.
The rifle set up you have is more than capable of shooting silhouette. As for sighting, using high velocity ammo, a zero at the 77m turkey target results in a foot hold on the 40m chicken, a low belly line hold on the 60m pig and a backline hold on the 100m ram target.
Most people who take up the sport graduate to scopes with target turrets but it is not essential for getting started or just casual attendance at club days just for fun.
User avatar
Gamerancher
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1596
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by in2anity » 05 Sep 2017, 10:27 am

Gamerancher wrote:JWS, as far as rimfire silhouette goes, they used to shoot it out at Silverdale but last I heard the targets had been pulled out. ( They had a set of resettable targets that worked brilliantly.)


Incorrect information. Silverdale has a fully automatic pneumatic setup that has a formal meetup the last Sunday of each month. You can use the range outside of these times for practice if you've been through induction. Please refer to the SSAA Sydney range calendar for more information; http://www.ssaasydney.net/images/PDFs/S ... lendar.pdf

JWS the next formal Silverdale shoot is on Sun the 24th Sept; be advised they haven't run a comp in a while, but a group of us are quite regular for a lot of fun. Come join us and don't worry about missing, we all miss a-lot (after all it's the wind's fault right? ;) )!

Gamerancher wrote:As for sighting, using high velocity ammo, a zero at the 77m turkey target results in a foot hold on the 40m chicken, a low belly line hold on the 60m pig and a backline hold on the 100m ram target.


But not the only way to do it; most of the guys who I shoot with (myself include) use subs for accuracy and dial in their scopes between each bank for a dead-on hold. Some guys use air rifles, again dialled in. It really depends on what suits you best and what you feel comfortable doing. Anyway, you only figure that out once you actually get there.
Last edited by in2anity on 05 Sep 2017, 11:21 am, edited 4 times in total.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by bladeracer » 05 Sep 2017, 11:09 am

in2anity wrote:This is your opinion not the only "way" to do it; most of the guys who I shoot with (myself include) use subs for accuracy and dial in their scopes between each bank for a dead-on hold. Some guys use air rifles, again dialled in. Not that OP was even asking "how to do metallic silhouette", but it really depends on what suits you best and what you feel comfortable doing, there is not "correct" way of doing. Anyway, you only figure that out once you actually get there.


I don't see where he suggested this was the only way to do it...
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by in2anity » 05 Sep 2017, 11:23 am

bladeracer wrote:I don't see where he suggested this was the only way to do it...

I misread it; sorry GR that did come across as a little harsh. I changed my response accordingly.
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by Gamerancher » 06 Sep 2017, 9:37 am

Yeah, please take the time to read posts before jumping up and down and yelling foul.

My suggestion for sighting was due to the fact that his scope, take a look at the picture of his outfit, does not have target turrets. Using this style of scope, high velocity ammo for the flatter trajectory it offers and not adjusting the scope simplifies the process. There is "target" grade, high velocity ammo available. My reply is based on the K.I.S.S. principle and many a new shooter to silhouette starts with just a basic "hunting" style scope. I have introduced many a new shooter to the sport over the 20+ years that I have been participating in it and this method gets them into it with a standard "rabbit" rifle set-up. Yes, "most" people do "dial-in" for each animal and use sub-sonic target ammo, but then we have scopes that are designed to do so.

As for my comment on Silverdale, please re-read it, "last I heard" . That was based on a conversation with the then silhouette captain from Silverdale. He did say that they were panning on rebuilding them as a pneumatic system, they were electric and worked fine last time I shot there. I hadn't heard whether they were up and running or not.

I'll be shooting lever-gun silhouette this Saturday from 9am at Bowral pistol club range at the back of Belanglo state forest if you want to meet me and we'll discuss the "how to's" of silhouette shooting if you like.
User avatar
Gamerancher
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1596
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by in2anity » 06 Sep 2017, 10:34 am

Gamerancher wrote:As for my comment on Silverdale, please re-read it, "last I heard" That was based on a conversation with the then silhouette captain from Silverdale. He did say that they were panning on rebuilding them as a pneumatic system, they were electric and worked fine last time I shot there. I hadn't heard whether they were up and running or not.


That's irrelevant, your information was still incorrect, no need to re-read. I was simply correcting it :thumbsup: .

Gamerancher wrote:I'll be shooting lever-gun silhouette this Saturday from 9am at Bowral pistol club range at the back of Belanglo state forest if you want to meet me and we'll discuss the "how to's" of silhouette shooting if you like.


Not this W.E but I'm actually really keen to make an attendance to Bowral soon, do they shoot all silhouette disciplines there? (i.e. rimfire, lever and centerfire) Also are they just free-standing targets? (i.e. not automated)
At what point does lack of maintenance become patina?
User avatar
in2anity
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3048
New South Wales

Re: Zeroing in scope

Post by wildcard6 » 12 Sep 2017, 12:33 pm

For a purely hunting set-up, I use Power Points [40-grainers] zeroed .5" high at 50m. This gives me a head-shot on a rabbit out to around 65m without any over or under calculations necessary. Just aim at the centre of the head and WHOP. Currently I have a Burris 3-9X scope with a duplex reticle on my .22 CZ and this one features a series of three short bars below the main crosshair for holdover/drop allowance. Because I mainly use the rifle for club shooting these days - metallic silhouettes - I now have the rifle zeroed for spot on at 50m. Still using Power Points, using 6X magnification, the first bar is zeroed for 77m [Turkeys] and the second bar is spot on for 100m [Rams]. If I use 9X, the third bar is spot on at 100m. I am currently getting organized to shoot long-range metallic silhouettes at 50/100/150/200m and by using the 'picket', or top of the duplex portion of the reticle ON 4X, I have the correct holdover for 200m! A 50m zero for Power Points will do just about everything a .22 should do at sensible RIMFIRE ranges. I personally have MISSED rabbits close in with the age-old 75m zero. I did so in front of a guy who bought his first car with money he earned shooting rabbits. I asked him what distance he zeroed his rifle at and he said "50 metres". I have never had any problems using this range/zero in all the years since that conversation took place.
wildcard6
Private
Private
 
Posts: 89
South Australia

Next

Back to top
 
Return to Scopes, sights and optics