AndyZ wrote:I am fairly new to shooting so not 100% up with how all of the physics works. I recently bought a Howa 1500 in 6.5 CM and put an Athlon Argos BTR 8-34x56 scope on top. I took it out to the range to zero. I have managed (with some difficulty) to zero at 100m ( I have plans to eventually zero this rifle at 200). The problem I have is that to get this zero I have had to wind the elevation turret all the way to the highest zero stop. I have 13 Mill of elevation travel to the bottom stop but it is all in a downward direction. Someone suggested a 20moa rail would work. Ideally I would like the 100m zero to be a few clicks for the bottom stop to allow me slight adjustments for closer shots but have all of the travel available so that I can get out to 550-1000m. Any one have any other ideas
sungazer wrote:The problem sounds like its in your gun. It could be the barrel all the gunsmiths I have ever talked to say they all have some bend in them and the ones I have talked to say they normally fit them (index them) so that it is in the vertical plane and upwards. A factory gun may not always get that attention.
Apollo wrote:Had a bit of a Google.
Sorry you guys have lost me. I don't believe or play with a FFP Scope especially for long range shooting. Had a go at one on a friends rifle and thought it was the worse thing I have ever seen. Can't see how you can be accurate when the crosshairs smother your aiming point when you wind the magnification up.
Then again "mil" is another I don't play with. Sorry but MOA is what I understand.
I'll leave you guys to sort it out, way out of my interest as a target shooter.
Apollo wrote:Had a bit of a Google.
Sorry you guys have lost me. I don't believe or play with a FFP Scope especially for long range shooting. Had a go at one on a friends rifle and thought it was the worse thing I have ever seen. Can't see how you can be accurate when the crosshairs smother your aiming point when you wind the magnification up.
Then again "mil" is another I don't play with. Sorry but MOA is what I understand.
I'll leave you guys to sort it out, way out of my interest as a target shooter.
bladeracer wrote:Apollo wrote:Had a bit of a Google.
Sorry you guys have lost me. I don't believe or play with a FFP Scope especially for long range shooting. Had a go at one on a friends rifle and thought it was the worse thing I have ever seen. Can't see how you can be accurate when the crosshairs smother your aiming point when you wind the magnification up.
Then again "mil" is another I don't play with. Sorry but MOA is what I understand.
I'll leave you guys to sort it out, way out of my interest as a target shooter.
I don't get the FFP for long-range thing either.
FOU posted a training event for long-range precision shooting, and one of the requirements was a FFP scope. When I asked them why they edited it
Surely nobody looking to shoot long range is going to use an FFP scope?
Mils do have one advantage being simply one-thousandth of the radius, or 100mm at 100m. Makes for easy calculation, but I think MoA is actually simpler and more useful, especially at long-ranges.
I bought a book about precision shooting recently written by a US sniper but I can't recommend it. He doesn't even understand what mils are, and thus he completely negates the only advantage they offer - ease of calculation. By insisting on ranging in yards and measuring in inches, his 100mm/100m constant becomes 3.6"/100yds.
"Long-Range Precision Rifle" by Anthony Cirincione II
I did pick up a few tips from it but not enough to warrant the price.
AndyZ wrote:Actually the calculations are quite easy. 1 mill is 1cm at 100m and 5cm at 500m. I plan to shoot 500m fly and the calculations are much easier than MOA if you think in metric. Plus the adjustment adjustments are much finer. My MOA scopes have 4 clicks per inch at 100m my mill/mill scope is 25 clicks per inch
bladeracer wrote:AndyZ wrote:Actually the calculations are quite easy. 1 mill is 1cm at 100m and 5cm at 500m. I plan to shoot 500m fly and the calculations are much easier than MOA if you think in metric. Plus the adjustment adjustments are much finer. My MOA scopes have 4 clicks per inch at 100m my mill/mill scope is 25 clicks per inch
No, 1Mil is "100mm at 100m" (as I explained - it's one-thousandth of the radius. At 100 miles a Mil is one-tenth of a mile.). 0.1Mil is 10mm at 100m. Most Mil scopes use 0.1Mil turrets so each click is 10mm at 100m.
An MoA scope at 0.25MoA is 7.25mm at 100m with each click. A 1/8MoA scope is half that again.
The guy that wrote the book I mentioned specifically talks about the coarse adjustment of Mil scopes. At 1000m each click of the scope is 100mm across the target.
bladeracer wrote:AndyZ wrote:Actually the calculations are quite easy. 1 mill is 1cm at 100m and 5cm at 500m. I plan to shoot 500m fly and the calculations are much easier than MOA if you think in metric. Plus the adjustment adjustments are much finer. My MOA scopes have 4 clicks per inch at 100m my mill/mill scope is 25 clicks per inch
No, 1Mil is "100mm at 100m" (as I explained - it's one-thousandth of the radius. At 100 miles a Mil is one-tenth of a mile.). 0.1Mil is 10mm at 100m. Most Mil scopes use 0.1Mil turrets so each click is 10mm at 100m.
An MoA scope at 0.25MoA is 7.25mm at 100m with each click. A 1/8MoA scope is half that again.
The guy that wrote the book I mentioned specifically talks about the coarse adjustment of Mil scopes. At 1000m each click of the scope is 100mm across the target.
bladeracer wrote:AndyZ wrote:Actually the calculations are quite easy. 1 mill is 1cm at 100m and 5cm at 500m. I plan to shoot 500m fly and the calculations are much easier than MOA if you think in metric. Plus the adjustment adjustments are much finer. My MOA scopes have 4 clicks per inch at 100m my mill/mill scope is 25 clicks per inch
No, 1Mil is "100mm at 100m" (as I explained - it's one-thousandth of the radius. At 100 miles a Mil is one-tenth of a mile.). 0.1Mil is 10mm at 100m. Most Mil scopes use 0.1Mil turrets so each click is 10mm at 100m.
An MoA scope at 0.25MoA is 7.25mm at 100m with each click. A 1/8MoA scope is half that again.
The guy that wrote the book I mentioned specifically talks about the coarse adjustment of Mil scopes. At 1000m each click of the scope is 100mm across the target.
AndyZ wrote:At full power the cross hairs are no fatter than my other MOA scopes. However at lower mag they are much finer and therefore not obliterate the target
brett1868 wrote:bladeracer wrote:AndyZ wrote:Actually the calculations are quite easy. 1 mill is 1cm at 100m and 5cm at 500m. I plan to shoot 500m fly and the calculations are much easier than MOA if you think in metric. Plus the adjustment adjustments are much finer. My MOA scopes have 4 clicks per inch at 100m my mill/mill scope is 25 clicks per inch
No, 1Mil is "100mm at 100m" (as I explained - it's one-thousandth of the radius. At 100 miles a Mil is one-tenth of a mile.). 0.1Mil is 10mm at 100m. Most Mil scopes use 0.1Mil turrets so each click is 10mm at 100m.
An MoA scope at 0.25MoA is 7.25mm at 100m with each click. A 1/8MoA scope is half that again.
The guy that wrote the book I mentioned specifically talks about the coarse adjustment of Mil scopes. At 1000m each click of the scope is 100mm across the target.
Here's one for you....0.25cm per click Had me scratching my head for a while till it clicked that 1 click is 1/40 of a mil, after that it's all so easy now.
AndyZ wrote:I am fairly new to shooting so not 100% up with how all of the physics works. I recently bought a Howa 1500 in 6.5 CM and put an Athlon Argos BTR 8-34x56 scope on top. I took it out to the range to zero. I have managed (with some difficulty) to zero at 100m ( I have plans to eventually zero this rifle at 200). The problem I have is that to get this zero I have had to wind the elevation turret all the way to the highest zero stop. I have 13 Mill of elevation travel to the bottom stop but it is all in a downward direction. Someone suggested a 20moa rail would work. Ideally I would like the 100m zero to be a few clicks for the bottom stop to allow me slight adjustments for closer shots but have all of the travel available so that I can get out to 550-1000m. Any one have any other ideas