juststarting wrote:You won't be laughing, when I drink and all your beer and eat all your trout!
juststarting wrote:You won't be laughing, when I drink and all your beer and eat all your trout!
Oldbloke wrote:juststarting wrote:You won't be laughing, when I drink and all your beer and eat all your trout!
holden4th wrote:From another perspective.
If my home is invaded. I have a handgun and loaded ammunition on the premises. The handgun is locked in my safe. My ammunition is stored separately and is also locked up. The location of both means that I would have very little chance of reaching and loading my firearm. When I selected my storage points, a home invasion was the last thought on my mind. If Imoved to new premises it would still be like that.
Reasonable use of force in Australia is an interesting legal concept. A number of years ago I surprised someone who had broken into my unit, subdued them with minimal force and restrained them. When the police showed up they recognised the burglar, ignored his complaints about being attacked by me, took him away and after getting details from me that was it. Assuming this happened in QLD, being "known to police" would have very little to do with the outcome you decribed. Police officers who knew the laws of QLD, and were willing to uphold the Rights of one of its citizens were probably the reason you were not given any grief.
I talked to a mate of mine who is a lawyer about the incident who said I was very lucky. The police could have charged me with illegally restraining an individual. Today I probably wouldn't get away with it. No you probably wouldn't IF you retained the services of a lawyer who;
A. Does not know the laws of this State,
B. Is too lazy to put together a defence on your behalf, because they are either incompetent in their chosen profession, or are just after the easy buck, or,
C. Are just wanna-be politicians in the making, with no concerns for the Rights of this States citizens, but still wanting to get their snouts in the public trough on a platform of law and order. Now this is for just stopping and restraining someone who entered my home illegally. Add a weapon and it gets worse.
Gwion wrote:That's interesting, Trekkin.
The wording "prevent or repel" however, does not allow you to "restrain and detain". I'm not that familiar with QLD laws around this but in Vic this can get you in strife. As soon as you physically restrain someone they are no long "continuing to commit" an offence so to detain them is unlawful imprisonment.
Supaduke wrote:The companion to section 462 of the Victorian crimes act (use of force) is section 458 (powers of arrest).
Section 458(1)(a) means that any person found committing an offence (other than a breach of regulations) can be arrested without warrant by anyone (not only the police) who reasonably believes the arrest is necessary for any of the following reasons:
1to ensure the appearance of the offender (person committing the offence) before court;
2to preserve public order;
3to prevent the continuation or repetition of the offence or the commission of a further offence; or
4for the safety or welfare of the public or offender.
Similar laws in all states. The 'lawyer' is talking out of his poo chute.
AusTac wrote:If i ever was to get into a life threatening situation i'll be sure to call a quick time out and brush up on law
AusTac wrote:If i ever was to get into a life threatening situation i'll be sure to call a quick time out and brush up on law
AusTac wrote:If i ever was to get into a life threatening situation i'll be sure to call a quick time out and brush up on law
trekin wrote:What's your excuse?
Supaduke wrote:AusTac wrote:If i ever was to get into a life threatening situation i'll be sure to call a quick time out and brush up on law
Takes a few minutes of reading to know your rights and dispell BS myths about burglars being able to sue. You are well within your rights to defend yourself and apprehend people inside your house who broke in.
Knowledge is power.
There is assumed access to your front door. Not illegal to enter a property and knock on the front door. That is the beginning and end of any strangers right to access your property without permission.
Guys reading the meter have access to them only and can't enter anywhere else.
Do your part, learn your rights and dispell the crap.
AusTac wrote:trekin wrote:What's your excuse?
The police will protect me
Supaduke wrote:There is assumed access to your front door. Not illegal to enter a property and knock on the front door. That is the beginning and end of any strangers right to access your property without permission.
Guys reading the meter have access to them only and can't enter anywhere else.
Do your part, learn your rights and dispell the crap.
Wombat wrote:Supaduke wrote:There is assumed access to your front door. Not illegal to enter a property and knock on the front door. That is the beginning and end of any strangers right to access your property without permission.
Guys reading the meter have access to them only and can't enter anywhere else.
Do your part, learn your rights and dispell the crap.
Actually there are other exceptions including some council officers, they can enter a property for an inspection without notice.
trekin wrote:holden4th wrote:From another perspective.
If my home is invaded. I have a handgun and loaded ammunition on the premises. The handgun is locked in my safe. My ammunition is stored separately and is also locked up. The location of both means that I would have very little chance of reaching and loading my firearm. When I selected my storage points, a home invasion was the last thought on my mind. If Imoved to new premises it would still be like that.
Reasonable use of force in Australia is an interesting legal concept. A number of years ago I surprised someone who had broken into my unit, subdued them with minimal force and restrained them. When the police showed up they recognised the burglar, ignored his complaints about being attacked by me, took him away and after getting details from me that was it. Assuming this happened in QLD, being "known to police" would have very little to do with the outcome you decribed. Police officers who knew the laws of QLD, and were willing to uphold the Rights of one of its citizens were probably the reason you were not given any grief.
I talked to a mate of mine who is a lawyer about the incident who said I was very lucky. The police could have charged me with illegally restraining an individual. Today I probably wouldn't get away with it. No you probably wouldn't IF you retained the services of a lawyer who;
A. Does not know the laws of this State,
B. Is too lazy to put together a defence on your behalf, because they are either incompetent in their chosen profession, or are just after the easy buck, or,
C. Are just wanna-be politicians in the making, with no concerns for the Rights of this States citizens, but still wanting to get their snouts in the public trough on a platform of law and order. Now this is for just stopping and restraining someone who entered my home illegally. Add a weapon and it gets worse.
Get to know and understand the laws. Section 267 of The QLD Criminal Code Act not only endorses your Common Law Right to defend your home by whatever means you decide to use;
"267 Defence of dwelling
It is lawful for a person who is in peaceable possession of a
dwelling, and any person lawfully assisting him or her or
acting by his or her authority, to use force to prevent or repel
another person from unlawfully entering or remaining in the
dwelling, if the person using the force believes on reasonable
grounds—
(a) the other person is attempting to enter or to remain in
the dwelling with intent to commit an indictable offence
in the dwelling; and
(b) it is necessary to use that force."
It also, by its wording, embraces 'Castle Doctrine' and removes your 'duty to retreat' which has been upheld by The Supreme Court of QLD.
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment ... 13-361.pdf
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment ... 09-375.pdf
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment ... 13-339.pdf
Daddybang wrote:Wombat wrote:Supaduke wrote:There is assumed access to your front door. Not illegal to enter a property and knock on the front door. That is the beginning and end of any strangers right to access your property without permission.
Guys reading the meter have access to them only and can't enter anywhere else.
Do your part, learn your rights and dispell the crap.
Actually there are other exceptions including some council officers, they can enter a property for an inspection without notice.
Don't know about other states but up here the fisheries mob can pretty much enter where and when they like. They actually have greater powers than the police for search and seizure.
Daddybang wrote:Wombat wrote:Supaduke wrote:There is assumed access to your front door. Not illegal to enter a property and knock on the front door. That is the beginning and end of any strangers right to access your property without permission.
Guys reading the meter have access to them only and can't enter anywhere else.
Do your part, learn your rights and dispell the crap.
Actually there are other exceptions including some council officers, they can enter a property for an inspection without notice.
Don't know about other states but up here the fisheries mob can pretty much enter where and when they like. They actually have greater powers than the police for search and seizure.
holden4th wrote:trekin wrote:holden4th wrote:From another perspective.
If my home is invaded. I have a handgun and loaded ammunition on the premises. The handgun is locked in my safe. My ammunition is stored separately and is also locked up. The location of both means that I would have very little chance of reaching and loading my firearm. When I selected my storage points, a home invasion was the last thought on my mind. If Imoved to new premises it would still be like that.
Reasonable use of force in Australia is an interesting legal concept. A number of years ago I surprised someone who had broken into my unit, subdued them with minimal force and restrained them. When the police showed up they recognised the burglar, ignored his complaints about being attacked by me, took him away and after getting details from me that was it. Assuming this happened in QLD, being "known to police" would have very little to do with the outcome you decribed. Police officers who knew the laws of QLD, and were willing to uphold the Rights of one of its citizens were probably the reason you were not given any grief.
I talked to a mate of mine who is a lawyer about the incident who said I was very lucky. The police could have charged me with illegally restraining an individual. Today I probably wouldn't get away with it. No you probably wouldn't IF you retained the services of a lawyer who;
A. Does not know the laws of this State,
B. Is too lazy to put together a defence on your behalf, because they are either incompetent in their chosen profession, or are just after the easy buck, or,
C. Are just wanna-be politicians in the making, with no concerns for the Rights of this States citizens, but still wanting to get their snouts in the public trough on a platform of law and order. Now this is for just stopping and restraining someone who entered my home illegally. Add a weapon and it gets worse.
Get to know and understand the laws. Section 267 of The QLD Criminal Code Act not only endorses your Common Law Right to defend your home by whatever means you decide to use;
"267 Defence of dwelling
It is lawful for a person who is in peaceable possession of a
dwelling, and any person lawfully assisting him or her or
acting by his or her authority, to use force to prevent or repel
another person from unlawfully entering or remaining in the
dwelling, if the person using the force believes on reasonable
grounds—
(a) the other person is attempting to enter or to remain in
the dwelling with intent to commit an indictable offence
in the dwelling; and
(b) it is necessary to use that force."
It also, by its wording, embraces 'Castle Doctrine' and removes your 'duty to retreat' which has been upheld by The Supreme Court of QLD.
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment ... 13-361.pdf
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment ... 09-375.pdf
https://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment ... 13-339.pdf
Thank you for the information regarding how to deal with someone breaking into my home. I did use the 'citizens arrest' scenario when talking to the cops, in fact I made it when I called 000 so it was on record. I now feel far more confident in taking affirmative action against scumbag thieves who want to steal my property.