head shots vs heart/lung

[Stix]

I have been a roo shooter in the Gascoyne for a number of years and I went to get a small roo for food one afternoon between culling so I thought I would pop it in the chest with a .243 and it hopped off.I continued to head shoot from then on as 99 % fall on the spot.I have had a few wake up halfway through proccessing which is freaky but they expire very quickly as they are upside down and have no internal organs

Hey duncsn, that would be freaky...!!
Not that this compares, but last time i was out foxing i took a headshot on a bunny at 180 odd yards with the 204 & removed its head.
It had the full flap of skin from one side of its head left, & it was still twitching as if running away with its innards being removed a good 10-15 mins later.
Having my hand in the tummy of a bunny whos legs were 13 to th dozen was freaky enough for me...!!

[duncan61]

What happens is the pill has grazed the skull and knocked them out so you hear the thud and they go down its happened 3 times in about 5 thousand animals

[Midwestman]

head shot or heart/lung shot,if the animal moves say for arguments sake uses a tree or bush for cover if it may pick on your slight scent,like forested hunting areas or scrub,and YOUR NOT COMFORTABLE WITH YOUR SHOT,DON'T TAKE IT PERIOD,till you get a better position or the animal does. EG I was out hunting a couple of mates 3months ago,went piggin the other side of Walgett,and a friend bought another hunting friend of his along and he thought he'd be a hero too impress us,well we come across this big boar,and he saying this and that put 4 shots with a 243 into this boars head none of them hit the spot,boar extremely agitated to say the least it's jaws smashed etc took me way too long to line up as it was going ballistic,terrible and dangerous situation for everyone,finally put one in his neck,dropped on the spot.Well after that we told hero pack up your gears never ever are you welcome with us Ever. As my ol man taught me IF YOUR NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THE SHOT,DON'T TAKE IT. We already get betrayed bad enough as it is. I LOVE HUNTING AND I ALWAYS WILL. There is nothing better than shooting something,skinning and eating it,and i mean the whole carcass.LIKE OL MATES DEERS HANGING IN THE SHED THERE IS NOTHING BETTER THAN HAVING A GREAT REWARD LIKE THAT IN THE SHED OR COOLROOM,than enjoying a couple of coldies together after the hunt. Just my 2 cents worth without trying too be a nag.Take care and safe hunting and shooting.

[brett1868]

Funny enough, the govt fella mandates that Giant Bunnies be head shot...If its good enough for Skippy then it should be good enough for Bambi. Each situation will be different so skill and good judgement will be key to shot placement.

Very good point. From memory, the gov't fella also mandates that pro giant bunny shooters pass an accuracy test before being issued a permit. Also suggests that any tag permit properties get shooters to do an accuracy test before letting them loose on the giant bunnies.

I had to do an "accuracy" test to get approved to join the SSAA Farmers Assist program (WOFTAM). I think it was 5 into an inch with a rimfire @ 50m, I managed .3" cause it's not hard with the right tools. I've shot once with a few guys that I haven't shot with since, purely because they lacked good judgement on taking the shot. Might just be the exuberance of youth making bad decisions, but I don't agree that the animal should suffer for it. I've shot giant bunnies out past 1200m but everything was perfect and I've not taken shots @ 50m cause I deemed it too risky. Probably my point is that it all comes down to good judgement, the equipment used and the right mindset of the shooter.

[Member-Deleted]

Its not a matter of which is best head or heart/lung shot I think all the shots mentioned have their place in hunting
It all comes down to what gun you have at the time what you are shooting the distance from the animal how comfortable you are taking the shot
any obstructions wind and probably many more
I head shoot when it's close ,clear ,still and i'm comfortable with doing so
When they are further out I heart/lung shoot to capture an ethical kill
I've never worried about pushing the limits like some people my aim is to put the animal on the ground as quick and as ethical as can be done
The saying is egos are free and worth nothing , accuracy comes with practice and worth doing

[bigrich]

Its not a matter of which is best head or heart/lung shot I think all the shots mentioned have their place in hunting
It all comes down to what gun you have at the time what you are shooting the distance from the animal how comfortable you are taking the shot
any obstructions wind and probably many more
I head shoot when it's close ,clear ,still and i'm comfortable with doing so
When they are further out I heart/lung shoot to capture an ethical kill
I've never worried about pushing the limits like some people my aim is to put the animal on the ground as quick and as ethical as can be done
The saying is egos are free and worth nothing , accuracy comes with practice and worth doing

As usual GDB, you get to the heart and bottom line of the subject

[bigrich]

[bigfellascott]

Its not a matter of which is best head or heart/lung shot I think all the shots mentioned have their place in hunting
It all comes down to what gun you have at the time what you are shooting the distance from the animal how comfortable you are taking the shot
any obstructions wind and probably many more
I head shoot when it's close ,clear ,still and i'm comfortable with doing so
When they are further out I heart/lung shoot to capture an ethical kill
I've never worried about pushing the limits like some people my aim is to put the animal on the ground as quick and as ethical as can be done
The saying is egos are free and worth nothing , accuracy comes with practice and worth doing

As usual GDB, you get to the heart and bottom line of the subject

Yep just good ol commonsense at the end of the day, sadly it's not as common as it used to be and I fear it will only get worse with the dumbing down of society.

[bigrich]

Its not a matter of which is best head or heart/lung shot I think all the shots mentioned have their place in hunting
It all comes down to what gun you have at the time what you are shooting the distance from the animal how comfortable you are taking the shot
any obstructions wind and probably many more
I head shoot when it's close ,clear ,still and i'm comfortable with doing so
When they are further out I heart/lung shoot to capture an ethical kill
I've never worried about pushing the limits like some people my aim is to put the animal on the ground as quick and as ethical as can be done
The saying is egos are free and worth nothing , accuracy comes with practice and worth doing

As usual GDB, you get to the heart and bottom line of the subject

Yep just good ol commonsense at the end of the day, sadly it's not as common as it used to be and I fear it will only get worse with the dumbing down of society.

sad but true BFS, sad but true

[Gwion]

Funny enough, the govt fella mandates that Giant Bunnies be head shot...If its good enough for Skippy then it should be good enough for Bambi. Each situation will be different so skill and good judgement will be key to shot placement.

Very good point. From memory, the gov't fella also mandates that pro giant bunny shooters pass an accuracy test before being issued a permit. Also suggests that any tag permit properties get shooters to do an accuracy test before letting them loose on the giant bunnies.

I had to do an "accuracy" test to get approved to join the SSAA Farmers Assist program (WOFTAM). I think it was 5 into an inch with a rimfire @ 50m, I managed .3" cause it's not hard with the right tools. I've shot once with a few guys that I haven't shot with since, purely because they lacked good judgement on taking the shot. Might just be the exuberance of youth making bad decisions, but I don't agree that the animal should suffer for it. I've shot giant bunnies out past 1200m but everything was perfect and I've not taken shots @ 50m cause I deemed it too risky. Probably my point is that it all comes down to good judgement, the equipment used and the right mindset of the shooter.

Exactly. The people who take a shot and leave wounded animals are lack in one or all of these departments...

[Gwion]

Its not a matter of which is best head or heart/lung shot I think all the shots mentioned have their place in hunting
It all comes down to what gun you have at the time what you are shooting the distance from the animal how comfortable you are taking the shot
any obstructions wind and probably many more
I head shoot when it's close ,clear ,still and i'm comfortable with doing so
When they are further out I heart/lung shoot to capture an ethical kill
I've never worried about pushing the limits like some people my aim is to put the animal on the ground as quick and as ethical as can be done
The saying is egos are free and worth nothing , accuracy comes with practice and worth doing

[bigpete]

I'll say this. I'd much rather take a heart/lung shot in a hunting scenario as its a lot easier to make happen and the critter is just as dead in the end. Spotlighting or shooting from a rested position I'll virtually always head shot

[Stix]

I think if you can head shoot then do it...especially if you're capable of a brain shot...!!
Know & stick to your limits though.

ONLY if you're capable of a brain shot. Anywhere else leaves a wounded animal to die slowly

I'll say this. I'd much rather take a heart/lung shot in a hunting scenario as its a lot easier to make happen and the critter is just as dead in the end. Spotlighting or shooting from a rested position I'll virtually always head shot

ONLY if you're capable of a brain shot. Anywhere else leaves a wounded animal to die slowly

[bigpete]

Yeah yeah,I mean brain shoot obviously

[marksman]

I'll say this. I'd much rather take a heart/lung shot in a hunting scenario as its a lot easier to make happen and the critter is just as dead in the end. Spotlighting or shooting from a rested position I'll virtually always head shot

not having a crack at you bigpete
but you have to wait till the end after a heart/lung shot, most animals shot in the heart/lung will get up and run or not even drop just bolt, so if they have run into thick bush try and track or get a dog, I have shot a heap of fallow that are crippled from bad shot placement, some with scares from being wounded, projectiles under the skin and I have killed some that when scun you could see holes where they have been blasted with a shot gun and the skin has not yet repaired itself, in this area we blame poachers from the big smoke shooting off the road,
I do chest shoot or neck shoot animals but would rather pass up a meat animal and be at a comfortable distance where I can brain shoot from a rested position or get closer to take the shot and take the whole animal with me, I feed a lot of pensioners with game meat and they love it, the cocky's like the idea of no waste, I bring back the bones for there dogs but do not feed the dogs gone wild that is a big problem for them
each to there own though, everyone should know what they are capable of, practice is the key where ever you place your shot

[bigpete]

And I've seen plenty of people take head shots where they've blown the nose or jaw off animals and they've run off into.the scrub to die of starvation.
As for chest shot animals,yes they often run,yes you do have to learn how to track. Part of being a decent hunter IMO

[brett1868]

What about ass shots? I've shot a number of cats, dogs and foxes square up the chocolate starfish, is this ethical?

[Stix]

Graphic image warning....



Personally i believe there IS a difference between a head shot & a brain shot, & times when just a "headshot" & not a "brainshot" is perfectly acceptable & i am in practice the biggest preacher of a humane kill i know.

As with ALL facets of hunting, there are variable factors that dictate whether a head or brain or heart/lung or shoulder shot is taken (& yes i deem a shoulder shot different too-sometimes im try to pop the heart/polverise lungs, sometimes i cant so need to bust a shoulder).
Variables such as the target (for example rabbit/goat etc), the range, be it short or long range (& long range as defined by the individual whos finger is on the trigger-that may be 40yds for some & 400 for another), & also equally important is the cartridge being used.

Forgive the graphics, but i think they help explain my point...here are some examples...

This was a "headshot" (ive posted before) over the bonnet on a heavy bag & also using a rear bag. POA was middle of the head- not the brain, at 280 odd yds-my longest shot i played for so far with the 204). The rabbit got smacked to the ground, lifted its head off the ground for one full second then slumped & lights out...its legs & body never moved.
I consider this a humane kill from a headshot.

Headshot @ 280 odd yds with 204

2018-05-28 20.18.59.jpg (545.32 KiB) Viewed 5997 times

The exit side clearly shows it was not a brain shot & was a "shock" kill, as with a heart/lung shot.

280yd 204 Exit wound

2018-05-28 20.19.45.jpg (554.4 KiB) Viewed 5997 times

This is the exit wound of a played for & easy brain shot at 100yds with the 222 rimmed & a 40 grain BT.

100yd brain shot 222R

2018-05-28 20.24.42.jpg (528.08 KiB) Viewed 5997 times

This was just a headshot @ 80 yds from a quick jump out the car & throw the rifle over the pillar of the windscreen.
Tension on the trigger, reticle in the middle of head & drop the sear...

80yd headshot

2018-05-28 20.15.33.jpg (666.07 KiB) Viewed 5997 times

I knew the round would do this,but i wouldnt do it with my .22lr.

I could post many examples of each, but all these shots have been taken with many factors taken into account, including the cartridge.
I wouldnt take a head shot on a goat at 280 yds leaning over the windscreen pillar.

I did say "know your limits & stick to them"...& by your limits, i mean every factor in that given shot.

None of us are perfect...my last trip out i wounded my 3rd fox in 25 yrs, not something im terribly proud of, but compared to some of the fukn d1cks that gloat on yoochoob, i think my wounded fox statistics demonstrate my ethics.

Heres one ive posted before too, but what the hell..
Not one of these knew what hit them or moved an inch once hit...a combo of head & brain shots.

All head shot, 22lr or 204.

2017-12-18 00.37.42.jpg (550.36 KiB) Viewed 5997 times

[Archie]

I think bunnies are a bit different, especially when you're hitting them with something with same muzzle energy as a .223. Realistically they aren't getting up no matter what you hit.

[bigrich]

And I've seen plenty of people take head shots where they've blown the nose or jaw off animals and they've run off into.the scrub to die of starvation.
As for chest shot animals,yes they often run,yes you do have to learn how to track. Part of being a decent hunter IMO

This is my point of view also big Pete . Maybe when my skills and experience are higher, I’ll take the type of shots stix can. That’s some fine shootin’ Stix.

[bigrich]

I’ll just add I try to take more than “ enough gun” . 6.5x55 with 156gr , had one poor shot recently but the goat was anchored and quickly finished

[bigfellascott]

What about ass shots? I've shot a number of cats, dogs and foxes square up the chocolate starfish, is this ethical?

Yep it works for me too, none have run away and all bang flops so I say yes!

[marksman]

What about ass shots? I've shot a number of cats, dogs and foxes square up the chocolate starfish, is this ethical?

I dont have a problem with it as long as they are dead texas heart shot, not going to eat a dog or fox

And I've seen plenty of people take head shots where they've blown the nose or jaw off animals and they've run off into.the scrub to die of starvation.
As for chest shot animals,yes they often run,yes you do have to learn how to track. Part of being a decent hunter IMO

moral to this story is get your gear in order and become a better shot, you don't have to take the shot
you know your capability's

good shooting stix

[bigpete]

Well,all I can say is,everyone will have a different opinion and different skill level and different experiences. One thing I seem to be noticing is that most people,myself included,who make regular head shots are shooting from some kind of platform such as a car or bipod. That's a bit different from walking around actually hunting.
Also,matching calibres and bullets to the game being hunted is just as,if not more important IMO for good on the spot kills.

[Daddybang]

Well,all I can say is,everyone will have a different opinion and different skill level and different experiences. One thing I seem to be noticing is that most people,myself included,who make regular head shots are shooting from some kind of platform such as a car or bipod. That's a bit different from walking around actually hunting.
Also,matching calibres and bullets to the game being hunted is just as,if not more important IMO for good on the spot kills.

This▲▲▲+1

[marksman]

Well,all I can say is,everyone will have a different opinion and different skill level and different experiences. One thing I seem to be noticing is that most people,myself included,who make regular head shots are shooting from some kind of platform such as a car or bipod. That's a bit different from walking around actually hunting.
Also,matching calibres and bullets to the game being hunted is just as,if not more important IMO for good on the spot kills.

I totally agree and have taken out a few people who are too good to shoot off a steady rest that should give it away and buy a shotgun and they were told that
but hey varmint shooting off a rest is still hunting, taking a shot off a steady platform and head shooting is still hunting
just a different type off hunting than stalking, I do it and get a s**t ton more in the freezer because I do

[Oldbloke]

I don't like headshots. I understand why people do them, I don't. 4 reasons:

1/ Most decent shooters can probably hit a head at similar distances to a reliable heart lung shot. But heart/lung is a bigger target in most cases (angle, ribs etc can complicate that a bit). Bigger target = more margin for error. I like margin for error in imperfect shooting conditions, and field shooting is always imperfect. Never a bench when you need one.

+1
I like shooting six.
A man's gotta know his limitations. Chest shots for me.

+ what bigpete said

[Stix]

Thanks for kind words bigrich & marksman.
Although it wasnt meant to be a brag fest.

I was trying to knock this sudden rush of exaggerated ethics of " ONLY head shoot if its a brain shot" hooha on its head.
And also say & demonstrate that when i said 'know & stick to your limits' i mean "everything" involved in the shot, not just range...but as i said cartridge as well.. .cos in the right circumstances, some animals aint goin anywhere from a plain ol' "headshot"..

I know a bloke that will head shoot goats at 100 off the shoulder with a 308...ive stood next to him while he did it....a very experienced & confident hunter & obviously a good shot...!

And big rich, you'd probably be surprised at what you could hit in the field.
Its all about confidence, being concious of your trigger & knowing your rifle & cartridge. Confidence in range as well, cos 100yds in a paddock with nothing to relate too looks a sh1t load further than 100yds in a metro street...
But a big thing is know &/or learn how to tame your phisiology when a shot presents itself in that paddock.
There are ways to test yourself to a certain point at the range or target shooting on a property.
And 99% of what i shoot is from a rested position.

[Apollo]

I was asked by "Stix" to make a comment here BUT... I'm not prepared to enter the debate at this time until I re-read EVERY comment that has been made for and against. I've been shooting for near 60 years, many calibres on small creatures..ie about the size of a Grey Roo... nothing fancy in creature size.

I don't ever or ever want to "shoot from the hip or shoulder" as the word goes... it's always from a rested rifle. Bang Plonk...

[bigrich]

Thanks for kind words bigrich & marksman.
Although it wasnt meant to be a brag fest.

I was trying to knock this sudden rush of exaggerated ethics of " ONLY head shoot if its a brain shot" hooha on its head.
And also say & demonstrate that when i said 'know & stick to your limits' i mean "everything" involved in the shot, not just range...but as i said cartridge as well.. .cos in the right circumstances, some animals aint goin anywhere from a plain ol' "headshot"..

I know a bloke that will head shoot goats at 100 off the shoulder with a 308...ive stood next to him while he did it....a very experienced & confident hunter & obviously a good shot...!

And big rich, you'd probably be surprised at what you could hit in the field.
Its all about confidence, being concious of your trigger & knowing your rifle & cartridge. Confidence in range as well, cos 100yds in a paddock with nothing to relate too looks a sh1t load further than 100yds in a metro street...
But a big thing is know &/or learn how to tame your phisiology when a shot presents itself in that paddock.
There are ways to test yourself to a certain point at the range or target shooting on a property.
And 99% of what i shoot is from a rested position.

rested position ? last hunt i was on i was huffing and puffing to get into position to sight up a goat mob. in a rocky timbered ridge line. got a good shot of at a goat walking at around 60- 80 yards. good shot too, went in behind the left shoulder and came out right side of chest. hit major bones and the goat was out quick. practice, practice, ay stix ? lot's more tuscan rabbit dishes and goat curries before i get to be a great shot. the sacrifices i make for me hobbies .