Gun club closed over 'gunshot'

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Gun club closed over 'gunshot'

Post by JimTom » 13 Jun 2018, 7:21 am

There's no sign a bullet shot from a Melbourne gun club into a neighbouring go-karting club, police say, but the firing range will stay closed for another day.

Police have shut down the Port Melbourne range temporarily after receiving several reports of a gunshot in the area just after 12.30pm on Monday.

"There's no sign of a projectile in the go-kart centre," Inspector Justin Goldsmith told reporters on Tuesday.

However, because the report has been made it needs to be investigated, and the range will be closed on Wednesday too, Insp Goldsmith said.

"There were four witnesses at the go-kart centre who heard a bang and then heard the whistle of a shot passing over their heads," he said.

"Looking at the range and the set up, it would be very difficult to see that a round from a firearm could breach the range."

Three people were at the gun club at the time, and police have spoken to two of them.

Go Kart Club of Victoria President John Wall dismissed a media report a bullet was found on its grounds.

"I have no idea where this has come from," he told AAP on Tuesday.

Mr Wall said it would be "impossible" for a bullet to enter the track via the range, as it is protected by earthen barriers several metres high and he had never heard of a bullet straying from the adjacent range.


https://www.news.com.au/national/breaki ... 5ab0465125

Some made an accusation and the gun club is closed until it proves the bullet wasn’t fired from there.
Should be up to the people who made the accusation to prove it was.
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by Daddybang » 13 Jun 2018, 7:30 am

If it is anything to do with firearms then "guilty til proven innocent" is pretty much the norm! :crazy: :drinks:
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by shouta » 13 Jun 2018, 7:49 am

Given that LRD closed a Range at the same Club in November 2017 after receiving multiple complaints from the Club's own members that a range at the club was not containing all shots. So LRD inspected and deemed the Range unsafe to the public because they also weren't confident the Range could contain all shots so the end result was LRD closed the range.
Now given that 4 non-members attending a Go Kart Club nearby believe they heard the whistle of a bullet go by, I therefore think the Police are doing the right thing in ensuring it is safe at the Club because as a shooter the last thing I want is any safety breach at a club that can effect the overall sport.
All reports state the Club is working with LRD to ascertain if this unlikely event could have happened. I am of the belief that it couldn't happen the way the 4 people believe it happened and the LRD investigation should clear the club and our sport.
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by Rod_outbak » 13 Jun 2018, 7:58 am

I dunno; the way I read the article, the police seem to be of the opinion the gun club ISNT the culprit, but until they can establish a reasonable idea of what happened, they have closed the range.
I didnt read the article as police jumping at the chance to persecute legitimate shooters; they seem to have already formed the view that it's nigh-impossible for the bullet(if any exists) to have come from the range, but want to be certain there isnt a previously unidentified risk to the public.
However, both the lead inspector and the manager of the go-kart track, have both stated they think it highly unlikely that a bullet could have made it from the range to the kart track.

It's not the only instance where the police err on the side of caution, even when the initial facts suggest there isnt a problem.
[We get the same treatment with the local plod enforcing road closures on our dirt road to town(due to travelling public safety concerns), even when the closure is due to woefully inaccurate information supplied by Dept of Main Roads]

I'm all for crucifying people who are using any reason to erode the legislated 'rights'/privileges of legitimate shooters, but I prefer to give the accused a fair trial BEFORE we tar and feather them...

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Re: Gun club closed

Post by Archie » 13 Jun 2018, 8:14 am

Do you reckon many people know what a bullet going past actually sounds like?
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by shouta » 13 Jun 2018, 8:56 am

Archie wrote:Do you reckon many people know what a bullet going past actually sounds like?



No, and as I said I don't think that's what happened.

I'm sure the people who reported it believe that's what happened but if a group of people were shooting at the same time it would have been very loud with the sound bouncing of any structure which I think they then mistook for a bullet flying by.

That's my opinion of what may have actually occurred.
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by Member-Deleted » 13 Jun 2018, 9:49 am

Archie wrote:Do you reckon many people know what a bullet going past actually sounds like?

Crack Thump?
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by Stix » 13 Jun 2018, 10:16 am

Archie wrote:Do you reckon many people know what a bullet going past actually sounds like?


Ofcourse they do Archie, ofcourse they do...

Just like they know that if you put a silencer on a high powered centrefire you cant hear a peep from firing shots...

People are smart mate, they learn this stuff from putting bits of info together from hollywood movies & mix that with the propoganda generated through mainstream & social media...

Sheesh Archie...get with times...!! :sarcasm:

They probably cant even spell the word 'bullet' mate...!!
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by Gwion » 13 Jun 2018, 10:21 am

Shots fired in Port Melbourne... hmmm... coukd have come from anywhere...
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by juststarting » 13 Jun 2018, 10:28 am

Archie wrote:Do you reckon many people know what a bullet going past actually sounds like?


Does it matter?
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by Justin9mm » 13 Jun 2018, 1:46 pm

shouta wrote:Given that LRD closed a Range at the same Club in November 2017 after receiving multiple complaints from the Club's own members that a range at the club was not containing all shots. So LRD inspected and deemed the Range unsafe to the public because they also weren't confident the Range could contain all shots so the end result was LRD closed the range.
Now given that 4 non-members attending a Go Kart Club nearby believe they heard the whistle of a bullet go by, I therefore think the Police are doing the right thing in ensuring it is safe at the Club because as a shooter the last thing I want is any safety breach at a club that can effect the overall sport.
All reports state the Club is working with LRD to ascertain if this unlikely event could have happened. I am of the belief that it couldn't happen the way the 4 people believe it happened and the LRD investigation should clear the club and our sport.


I'm a member of this club, there was no breach of the range, the way the range is designed, you'd almost have to intentionally shoot up and out and then there is the 7+ metre high dirt wall between the range and go kart track. There were only 3 shooters that day and I believe our CCTV which covers all angles did not find any breaches. Even the CEO of the Go Kart club said he believes it's impossible.

The people making the accusations should be held accountable for their claims. The Police shutting down the club is just protocol. They don't believe there was a breach but they have to do their job. We'll be open soon.
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by Archie » 13 Jun 2018, 2:04 pm

juststarting wrote:
Archie wrote:Do you reckon many people know what a bullet going past actually sounds like?


Does it matter?


Well, when someone says they "heard the whistle of a bullet" I do wonder... to be honest I wouldn't have any idea myself except that at Anzac range in Sydney, when you go to collect your targets, you walk through a sort of big concrete trench while the bullets are passing over your head and smacking into the backstop. Thats the closest I've ever been to a bullet going past me and about as close as I ever want to. And I don't ever recall hearing anything (other than the gunfire noise and the sound of a hit). Maybe not close enough?
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by brett1868 » 13 Jun 2018, 2:29 pm

Couple of possibilities without seeing the actual "Bullet", could have been a spent 22LR case that's fallen out of a shooters pocket whilst enjoying the karting action after a morning on the range. Given that Joe / Jane public is uneducated it may very well have been a screw driver bit, small nut or bolt that's fallen off a kart and they've leapt to the conclusion that it must be a bullet from the range. I will be keen to see what the investigation reveals in due course.
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by bladeracer » 13 Jun 2018, 5:24 pm

Archie wrote:Do you reckon many people know what a bullet going past actually sounds like?


Probably not related, but the last time I went to the Speedway ('91) there was a sprint car crash and a broken bolt came flying over the fence above us and landed on the grass well behind. I wonder if it's possible a piece of debris on the circuit could have been kicked up by a kart?
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by bladeracer » 13 Jun 2018, 5:27 pm

juststarting wrote:
Archie wrote:Do you reckon many people know what a bullet going past actually sounds like?


Does it matter?


I would say it does when people are making a claim to Police. If they recognise the sound and identify it as a bullet then that's good. If they don't recognise it but simply assume it was a bullet, but report to Police that they "heard a bullet", then that's wrong.
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by Daddybang » 13 Jun 2018, 6:02 pm

There's been no bullet found on the go cart premises(3rd paragraph) so blade and Brett are probably on the right track:drinks:
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by bladeracer » 13 Jun 2018, 6:46 pm

Member-Deleted wrote:
Archie wrote:Do you reckon many people know what a bullet going past actually sounds like?

Crack Thump?


Only if it's supersonic.
A subsonic bullet going past is very quiet unless it's deformed by ricocheting off something.
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by Member-Deleted » 13 Jun 2018, 8:05 pm

Justin9mm wrote:
shouta wrote:Given that LRD closed a Range at the same Club in November 2017 after receiving multiple complaints from the Club's own members that a range at the club was not containing all shots. So LRD inspected and deemed the Range unsafe to the public because they also weren't confident the Range could contain all shots so the end result was LRD closed the range.
Now given that 4 non-members attending a Go Kart Club nearby believe they heard the whistle of a bullet go by, I therefore think the Police are doing the right thing in ensuring it is safe at the Club because as a shooter the last thing I want is any safety breach at a club that can effect the overall sport.
All reports state the Club is working with LRD to ascertain if this unlikely event could have happened. I am of the belief that it couldn't happen the way the 4 people believe it happened and the LRD investigation should clear the club and our sport.


I'm a member of this club, there was no breach of the range, the way the range is designed, you'd almost have to intentionally shoot up and out and then there is the 7+ metre high dirt wall between the range and go kart track. There were only 3 shooters that day and I believe our CCTV which covers all angles did not find any breaches. Even the CEO of the Go Kart club said he believes it's impossible.

The people making the accusations should be held accountable for their claims. The Police shutting down the club is just protocol. They don't believe there was a breach but they have to do their job. We'll be open soon.


Let's hope the range is back up and running soon. :thumbsup:
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by Gwion » 13 Jun 2018, 9:01 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Member-Deleted wrote:
Archie wrote:Do you reckon many people know what a bullet going past actually sounds like?

Crack Thump?


Only if it's supersonic.
A subsonic bullet going past is very quiet unless it's deformed by ricocheting off something.


They call them 'wizzers' for a reason, as i found out back in the early 80s...
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by Member-Deleted » 13 Jun 2018, 9:45 pm

Is that because if they get close enough, the experience can make one wizz themselves, sorry could not resist that one. :D
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Re: Gun club closed over 'gunshot'

Post by sungazer » 14 Jun 2018, 12:13 pm

I have worked in the butts quite a few times and I would of expected to hear something like a supersonic crack. However the reality is you hear very little. I have to watch behind the target to see some dust to know if the target above me has been hit. Rather than one of the others. There is some sound but i think it is more the impact of the bullet into the mound.
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Re: Gun club closed over 'gunshot'

Post by bladeracer » 14 Jun 2018, 7:41 pm

sungazer wrote:I have worked in the butts quite a few times and I would of expected to hear something like a supersonic crack. However the reality is you hear very little. I have to watch behind the target to see some dust to know if the target above me has been hit. Rather than one of the others. There is some sound but i think it is more the impact of the bullet into the mound.


What distance and caliber?
I was in the butts at Ros3dale at 800yds and the .284 Shehane bullets still had a supersonic crack about 2.5m above our heads. The actual gunshot was so far away as to not be noticeable.
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Re: Gun club closed over 'gunshot'

Post by sungazer » 14 Jun 2018, 8:19 pm

I have been pulling targets for shoots at 100 yrds, 300, 500, 600 mainly and for mostly 308 and then a few larger some 6.5, 303 and 223. You can hear the Larger 300wm and 338 initial bang distinct from others. There is certainly no air wizzing noises though. At first I wore the ear muffs but they wernt necessary and really needed all your senses to pickup shots. Some guys hold the target and can feel the shot pass through me like i said I stand back and look for dust as the most reliable indicator. Its all experience to get good at it, I am just glad we use electronic targets mostly. I think I would give it away if i had to spend heaps of time pulling targets.
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Re: Gun club closed over 'gunshot'

Post by Gwion » 14 Jun 2018, 9:15 pm

308, 6.5x55, 243, 223, 708 all sound like 'crack...booom' out to 600yd.

Sub sonic 22lr rounds out of annoyed landowner's guns in the 1980s have a nice wizzing sound like and extremely fast and pissed off wasp wizzing over your head.
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Re: Gun club closed over 'gunshot'

Post by darwindingo » 15 Jun 2018, 12:50 am

Gwion wrote:308, 6.5x55, 243, 223, 708 all sound like 'crack...booom' out to 600yd.

Sub sonic 22lr rounds out of annoyed landowner's guns in the 1980s have a nice wizzing sound like and extremely fast and pissed off wasp wizzing over your head.


Starting to wonder if I met the same land owner, did he think he owned the river passing through his property and that you had no business or excuse for fishing in it ?..

Miss the old days, life was fun back then.... :thumbsup: I Probably need some kind of permit to say something like that these days though.. :?

I'm glad I'm not growing up these days, although to try and look at the way of the world in a positive'ish way, at least all the BS its full of makes for significantly less fear of death. :problem:

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Re: Gun club closed over 'gunshot'

Post by Gwion » 15 Jun 2018, 7:44 am

darwindingo wrote:
Gwion wrote:308, 6.5x55, 243, 223, 708 all sound like 'crack...booom' out to 600yd.

Sub sonic 22lr rounds out of annoyed landowner's guns in the 1980s have a nice wizzing sound like and extremely fast and pissed off wasp wizzing over your head.


Starting to wonder if I met the same land owner, did he think he owned the river passing through his property and that you had no business or excuse for fishing in it ?..

Miss the old days, life was fun back then.... :thumbsup: I Probably need some kind of permit to say something like that these days though.. :?

I'm glad I'm not growing up these days, although to try and look at the way of the world in a positive'ish way, at least all the BS its full of makes for significantly less fear of death. :problem:

:violin:

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No, mate. This was out at the foot of the Warbies. This bloke didn't like that i used to swim in his dam on the way back from rabbiting with my dogs on hot days, so he put wizzers over our heads as we walked up the dirt road to our rabbiting area.
Don't know what his issue was, he didn't keep stock and had no issue with other friends taking a dip. Maybe they asked first.... :unknown:
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by Baronvonrort » 15 Jun 2018, 10:49 am

shouta wrote:Now given that 4 non-members attending a Go Kart Club nearby believe they heard the whistle of a bullet go by



I have raced Go Karts they're pretty loud there is no way you would hear a bullet whistle by with karts on track.


Sometimes engines make funny noises which could lead some hoplophobes to think it could be something else
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Re: Gun club closed

Post by Angel » 16 Jun 2018, 6:37 am

Baronvonrort wrote:
shouta wrote:Now given that 4 non-members attending a Go Kart Club nearby believe they heard the whistle of a bullet go by



I have raced Go Karts they're pretty loud there is no way you would hear a bullet whistle by with karts on track.


Sometimes engines make funny noises which could lead some hoplophobes to think it could be something else


Bahahahaah... Never trust dem Go Karts, they are just so Hoplophobic... :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:
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Re: Gun club closed over 'gunshot'

Post by shouta » 16 Jun 2018, 9:28 am

Has the club been re-opened or did they find some issues?
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Re: Gun club closed over 'gunshot'

Post by Member-Deleted » 16 Jun 2018, 9:47 am

shouta wrote:Has the club been re-opened or did they find some issues?


As the reason for the closure is down to nothing more than hearsay type evidence, I hope they are allowed to reopen soon.
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