Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Questions about Victorian gun and ammunition laws. Victorian Firearms Act 1996.

Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by TBJ » 14 Jun 2018, 12:14 pm

I was speaking to someone (they weren't at all affiliated with Vic Pol or LRD at all, just an average shooter) the other day and he seemed to think that they're talking about allowing us to have our semi-auto rimfire like 10/22's back under cat a/b with a limited 10rnd mag capacity, I thought this sounded unlikely but me being a positive person I thought what are the actual chances this will ever happen? This was in regards to VIC specifically but I don't know about other states. Curious as its not easy to get Cat C for bunny eradication.
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by sungazer » 14 Jun 2018, 12:16 pm

Nah cant see it happening.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by Daddybang » 14 Jun 2018, 12:34 pm

I think "not a hope in hell" covers it!! :lol: :drinks:
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by TBJ » 14 Jun 2018, 12:44 pm

Daddybang wrote:I think "not a hope in hell" covers it!! :lol: :drinks:


Thats what I thought, although I said "snowballs chance in hell" but whats life without a bit of wishful thinking.
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by Archie » 14 Jun 2018, 1:11 pm

This is the .22 I really want....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J50N5lQoAFw
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by southwest shooter » 14 Jun 2018, 1:17 pm

Zero
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by TBJ » 14 Jun 2018, 1:19 pm

Archie wrote:This is the .22 I really want....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J50N5lQoAFw


Imagine the Bunnies you could get with that thing, goodbye bunny colonies
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by spartan71 » 14 Jun 2018, 1:28 pm

Funnily enough, about 9 months ago there were a number of conversations about this happening between a number of SSAA officials and state and federal members. The concept they were talking about was for sports shooting - i.e. participating in accredited events such as gallery rifle competitions.
You are really talking about 22 semi-auto long arms as 22 semi-auto pistols are quite legal for sports shooting under cat H licenses.

I understand the talks were progressing well and then there was another school shooting in the US and idea hit an obvious road block.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by TBJ » 14 Jun 2018, 1:56 pm

spartan71 wrote:Funnily enough, about 9 months ago there were a number of conversations about this happening between a number of SSAA officials and state and federal members. The concept they were talking about was for sports shooting - i.e. participating in accredited events such as gallery rifle competitions.
You are really talking about 22 semi-auto long arms as 22 semi-auto pistols are quite legal for sports shooting under cat H licenses.

I understand the talks were progressing well and then there was another school shooting in the US and idea hit an obvious road block.


righto, bugger this could be what the bloke was talking about, and yeah it makes sense really, anymore talking about it at all or have they given up on the idea?
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by juststarting » 14 Jun 2018, 3:32 pm

spartan71 wrote:Funnily enough, about 9 months ago there were a number of conversations about this happening between a number of SSAA officials and....


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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by TBJ » 14 Jun 2018, 3:41 pm

juststarting wrote:
spartan71 wrote:Funnily enough, about 9 months ago there were a number of conversations about this happening between a number of SSAA officials and....


Image


you mean to say that the SSAA do jack towards our gun rights in reality?
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by Daddybang » 14 Jun 2018, 3:42 pm

spartan71 wrote:Funnily enough, about 9 months ago there were a number of conversations about this happening between a number of SSAA officials and state and federal members. The concept they were talking about was for sports shooting - i.e. participating in accredited events such as gallery rifle competitions.


Yeah that makes sense. ..ssaa pushing for something that would benefit them( and put money in their pockets) not the wider shooting community. :thumbsdown: :drinks:
And yes I'm a member.
This hard living ain't as easy as it used to be!!!
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by No1_49er » 14 Jun 2018, 4:10 pm

[/quote]
Yeah that makes sense. ..ssaa pushing for something that would benefit them( and put money in their pockets) not the wider shooting community. :thumbsdown: :drinks:
And yes I'm a member.[/quote]

Your "logic" eludes me. What money, in whose pocket?
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by MontyShooter » 14 Jun 2018, 4:28 pm

We should be concentrating on something that at least has a slight chance of succeeding. Like easier access to cans.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by TBJ » 14 Jun 2018, 4:35 pm

MontyShooter wrote:We should be concentrating on something that at least has a slight chance of succeeding. Like easier access to cans.


very true, I would love to be able to get a can for fox and rabbit shooting and would prefer that to semi-auto .22's probably, although honestly I think semi-auto rimfire and suppressors both are pretty evil to a greenies so I'm not sure we have much of a hope at either to be honest. Although the dream would be a Suppressed 10/22 for Rabbits but I've got more hope to have a snowball fight with the devil in hell.
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by Daddybang » 14 Jun 2018, 4:41 pm

No1_49er wrote:

Yeah that makes sense. ..ssaa pushing for something that would benefit them( and put money in their pockets) not the wider shooting community. :thumbsdown: :drinks:
And yes I'm a member.[/quote]

Your "logic" eludes me. What money, in whose pocket?[/quote]

By pushing for semi auto to be able to be used by comp shooters (and no one else)then they will increase membership. More members=more money for the hierarchy to spend.
This hard living ain't as easy as it used to be!!!
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by TBJ » 14 Jun 2018, 4:45 pm

MontyShooter wrote:We should be concentrating on something that at least has a slight chance of succeeding. Like easier access to cans.


Out of curiosity what are the realistic chances of suppressors actually becoming legal for us to own and use for pest hunting and target shooting in Vic or Aus?
Have: .17H .22LR .204R .222REM .223REM .22-250 .243WIN .270WIN .308WIN .300WM 7.62x39 30-06SPRG .303BRIT 30-30WIN 9.3x62 45-70GOVT 44RMAG 45LC 20GA 12GA .410GA
Want: .220SWIFT 6.5CREED .260REM .375H&H .416RIGBY .444MARLIN .458WIN 16GA 28GA
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by No1_49er » 14 Jun 2018, 5:25 pm

Daddybang wrote:
No1_49er wrote:

Yeah that makes sense. ..ssaa pushing for something that would benefit them( and put money in their pockets) not the wider shooting community. :thumbsdown: :drinks:
And yes I'm a member.


Your "logic" eludes me. What money, in whose pocket?[/quote]

By pushing for semi auto to be able to be used by comp shooters (and no one else)then they will increase membership. More members=more money for the hierarchy to spend.[/quote]



Why do you say "and no one else"?
I think it highly unlikely that any change in legislation could apply specifically to member of the SSAA.
As far as the members of SSAA are concerned, isn't advocacy on behalf of those members what is expected. It should be noted that the SSAA has, as shown on their membership card, the interests of hunters, target shooters and collectors, amongst other things, in their scope of advocacy. Or do you suggest that rather than members paying, by way of their membership, that the financial costs of representation in court battles NOT be payed by the members, i.e. no representation?
More members, more income, more advocacy? Is there something wrong with that concept?
Proud member of "the powerful gun lobby" of Australia :)
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by spartan71 » 14 Jun 2018, 5:31 pm

Interesting, the message I got from the Galley Shooting idea had nothing to do with benefiting anyone but the broader shooting community. If SSAA had been able to get this up as an accredited event then there would have been zero reason why other clubs couldn't have followed - i.e., rules and regulations for gallery rifle are based on an international event and standard that includes the use of semi-auto rimfire long arms.

I don't think its realistic to have AR15's magically be allowed again. Rather, you get semi-auto rimfires safely used in competitions/events and then you build a case for semi-auto centre fire - say for three gun shoots - again based on accredited international events. This then addresses the 'genuine need' element for possession. This would, I think enable other clubs and associations to follow on.

i don't shoot gallery rifle with anyone but I do know plenty of people who are NOT SSAA members who shot in SSAA comps including semi-auto pistol matches. Just as SSAA members shoot at other clubs.

Additionally, you would think that there isn't going to a material increase in membership based on that policy - you are more likely to adding an additional service to an existing membership service offering. i.e. gallery rifle shooters who can shoot the way their international peers do.

The best way for any of this to happen is for the shooting community to grow by educating and adding people to our community regardless of their club, sport/hunting preference.

I don't see any amount of internet memes helping shooters get access to the firearms that they currently can't get.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by Daddybang » 14 Jun 2018, 5:39 pm

How does allowing only accredited comps to use semi auto help me control ferals on my property. It seems to me that the ssaa hierarchy only want to push for things that benefit comp shooters as that's where the money is. No worries if people don't see things the same way. :drinks:
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by Archie » 14 Jun 2018, 6:14 pm

I have got some sympathy for Spartan's view. If the SSAA can get rimfire semi-autos back for gallery shooting, great. I don't gallery shoot, but its no harm to me if someone else does and can use one. And, if they can get it back in for gallery shooting, it eventually opens the door to extend that to other applications I do care about (such as bunnies).

I actually dont think we'll ever get centrefire semi-auto again but rimfire semi-auto should be attainable.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by Gaznazdiak » 14 Jun 2018, 6:46 pm

About the same as seeing Samantha Lee advocating concealed carry for self defence.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by marksman » 14 Jun 2018, 7:08 pm

TBJ wrote:I was speaking to someone (they weren't at all affiliated with Vic Pol or LRD at all, just an average shooter) the other day and he seemed to think that they're talking about allowing us to have our semi-auto rimfire like 10/22's back under cat a/b with a limited 10rnd mag capacity, I thought this sounded unlikely but me being a positive person I thought what are the actual chances this will ever happen? This was in regards to VIC specifically but I don't know about other states. Curious as its not easy to get Cat C for bunny eradication.


I did hear these 22 self loader rumours as well as the suppressor rumours
I also heard the rumour about the vic ssaa trying to make it a legal requirement to do a practical test at there range's as well as the compulsory theoretical test already done by volunteers to get a shooter licence
when it was discussed I said it would be a great idea as long as it was free like the compulsory theoretical test, I said it would be very big of the ssaa to donate the ranges and volunteers time to do this
apparently licencing services didn't think it was necessary
but for $120 members and $150 non members
ssaavic.com.au/education/basic-firearms-safety-course/
keep trying ssaa, its all about the money
for you :thumbsdown:
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by spartan71 » 14 Jun 2018, 7:23 pm

I did hear these 22 self loader rumours as well as the suppressor rumours
I also heard the rumour about the vic ssaa trying to make it a legal requirement to do a practical test at there range's as well as the compulsory theoretical test already done by volunteers to get a shooter licence
when it was discussed I said it would be a great idea as long as it was free like the compulsory theoretical test, I said it would be very big of the ssaa to donate the ranges and volunteers time to do this
apparently licencing services didn't think it was necessary
but for $120 members and $150 non members
ssaavic.com.au/education/basic-firearms-safety-course/
keep trying ssaa, its all about the money
for you :thumbsdown:[/quote]


The practical test you speak of is the way that it happens in Queensland and the safety courses are run by just about every club going as well as private providers. I'd imagine that more of the safety courses are run by non SSAA than SSAA. I did all my safety courses at QMRC for example.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by spartan71 » 14 Jun 2018, 7:27 pm

Daddybang wrote:How does allowing only accredited comps to use semi auto help me control ferals on my property. It seems to me that the ssaa hierarchy only want to push for things that benefit comp shooters as that's where the money is. No worries if people don't see things the same way. :drinks:


I think your view is just as valid as anyone elses view to be honest. I have heard from competition pistol shooters from SSAA (who I occasionally mix with) that the SSAA is only interested in hunting so there you go.

To address your point though I would think that its got to be more likely to allow you to use a semi-auto on your property if there were extant provisions allowing semi-auto long arms in other areas. I guess it would be incremental steps.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by Bigjobss » 14 Jun 2018, 7:37 pm

I am an optimist, so about a 7% chance within the next 50 years.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by Member-Deleted » 14 Jun 2018, 7:45 pm

It is possible to get access to semi autos back and other restrictions reversed, it needs to be remembered that the firearms restrictions were made in parliament, if we want to see them changed for the better, it is there we need to have our representatives, if pro shooting minor parties can get into a situation where they hold the balance of power, real positive changes are possible.

All the lobbying under the sun is unlikely to change anything, the reason I say this is, those being lobbied, are the various governments, which are made up of the major parties, they are the very one's who created the restrictions in the first place, these parties have an agenda and a policy line, one that regardless of what we say, they will not change anytime soon.

Getting pro shooting representatives into parliament is possible, what is needed is more support of the pro shooting minor parties by shooters, many people understandably don't like politics, this probably has a lot to do with the behaviour and lack of ethics of many politicians, but the time for not getting involved is over, if we want change, we need to work for it.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by bladeracer » 14 Jun 2018, 7:45 pm

TBJ wrote:
MontyShooter wrote:We should be concentrating on something that at least has a slight chance of succeeding. Like easier access to cans.


Out of curiosity what are the realistic chances of suppressors actually becoming legal for us to own and use for pest hunting and target shooting in Vic or Aus?


They were legal in SA in the eighties, I bought one myself.
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by marksman » 14 Jun 2018, 7:47 pm

spartan71 wrote:I did hear these 22 self loader rumours as well as the suppressor rumours
I also heard the rumour about the vic ssaa trying to make it a legal requirement to do a practical test at there range's as well as the compulsory theoretical test already done by volunteers to get a shooter licence
when it was discussed I said it would be a great idea as long as it was free like the compulsory theoretical test, I said it would be very big of the ssaa to donate the ranges and volunteers time to do this
apparently licencing services didn't think it was necessary
but for $120 members and $150 non members
ssaavic.com.au/education/basic-firearms-safety-course/
keep trying ssaa, its all about the money
for you :thumbsdown:



The practical test you speak of is the way that it happens in Queensland and the safety courses are run by just about every club going as well as private providers. I'd imagine that more of the safety courses are run by non SSAA than SSAA. I did all my safety courses at QMRC for example.[/quote]

maybe there are a few clubs in QLD doing a practical test for your shooters licence and that has become the norm for you
but here in VIC we do not have to and the ssaa are not looking after the LAFO or should I say the new shooters by trying to get this implemented
we have enough greedy anti's to cope with, the ssaa suck
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Re: Chances that we'll get our semi-auto .22's back?

Post by bladeracer » 14 Jun 2018, 7:48 pm

spartan71 wrote:Interesting, the message I got from the Galley Shooting idea had nothing to do with benefiting anyone but the broader shooting community. If SSAA had been able to get this up as an accredited event then there would have been zero reason why other clubs couldn't have followed - i.e., rules and regulations for gallery rifle are based on an international event and standard that includes the use of semi-auto rimfire long arms.

I don't think its realistic to have AR15's magically be allowed again. Rather, you get semi-auto rimfires safely used in competitions/events and then you build a case for semi-auto centre fire - say for three gun shoots - again based on accredited international events. This then addresses the 'genuine need' element for possession. This would, I think enable other clubs and associations to follow on.

i don't shoot gallery rifle with anyone but I do know plenty of people who are NOT SSAA members who shot in SSAA comps including semi-auto pistol matches. Just as SSAA members shoot at other clubs.

Additionally, you would think that there isn't going to a material increase in membership based on that policy - you are more likely to adding an additional service to an existing membership service offering. i.e. gallery rifle shooters who can shoot the way their international peers do.

The best way for any of this to happen is for the shooting community to grow by educating and adding people to our community regardless of their club, sport/hunting preference.

I don't see any amount of internet memes helping shooters get access to the firearms that they currently can't get.


How does a purely competition firearm benefit the broader community - those of us that have no interest in shooting on approved ranges?
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