Range hire

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Range hire

Post by bladeracer » 09 Jul 2018, 7:16 pm

Does anybody know of any rifle ranges that can be hired for the day by a group wanting to spend a day shooting?

And if not, how many of us would be happy to hire a range for the day, so we can shoot at our convenience, at a cost of, let's say, $100 each for the day? Ten people can bring $1000 into a club by simply making use of the range on a day that it would otherwise sit idle, enough I would think to actually pay a wage for an RO to be in attendance, if they require that as part of the hire. Have room for camping, and perhaps a BBQ, and I would think people would happily travel quite some distance to spend a day or two shooting informally with their friends.
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Re: Range hire

Post by No1Mk3 » 09 Jul 2018, 8:38 pm

No SSAA range would be available without the backing of a Sub-Club, nor any VRA range. The main issue for them would be Range Approval conditions, Template issues, etc. Our club does this once a year for our State Titles and the red tape is huge due to it being an organized event. As yours would be an informal shoot, you would be better off looking for a landholder with shooting interests and offering them a few dollars to host you for a weekend. Public Liability Insurance would be required, cost would be significant. Should be interesting to hear what others might come up with, Cheers.
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Re: Range hire

Post by southwest shooter » 09 Jul 2018, 9:23 pm

I can sort something out for you blokes , when can you get to Damascus ?
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Re: Range hire

Post by bladeracer » 09 Jul 2018, 9:38 pm

southwest shooter wrote:I can sort something out for you blokes , when can you get to Damascus ?


I'd have to get a passport first!
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Re: Range hire

Post by Gwion » 09 Jul 2018, 10:18 pm

bladeracer wrote:Does anybody know of any rifle ranges that can be hired for the day by a group wanting to spend a day shooting?

And if not, how many of us would be happy to hire a range for the day, so we can shoot at our convenience, at a cost of, let's say, $100 each for the day? Ten people can bring $1000 into a club by simply making use of the range on a day that it would otherwise sit idle, enough I would think to actually pay a wage for an RO to be in attendance, if they require that as part of the hire. Have room for camping, and perhaps a BBQ, and I would think people would happily travel quite some distance to spend a day or two shooting informally with their friends.


We would happily open the range for such events but it wouldn't be entirely 'at you convenience' because, like you, we are busy people a a lot to do with our time and we volunteer our time to run the club and range. Also, standing orders restrict shooting times and conditions.

I strongly doubt you will find anywhere that will just ooen up and let you at it under your own guidance and supervision.
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Re: Range hire

Post by bladeracer » 09 Jul 2018, 10:39 pm

Gwion wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Does anybody know of any rifle ranges that can be hired for the day by a group wanting to spend a day shooting?

And if not, how many of us would be happy to hire a range for the day, so we can shoot at our convenience, at a cost of, let's say, $100 each for the day? Ten people can bring $1000 into a club by simply making use of the range on a day that it would otherwise sit idle, enough I would think to actually pay a wage for an RO to be in attendance, if they require that as part of the hire. Have room for camping, and perhaps a BBQ, and I would think people would happily travel quite some distance to spend a day or two shooting informally with their friends.


We would happily open the range for such events but it wouldn't be entirely 'at you convenience' because, like you, we are busy people a a lot to do with our time and we volunteer our time to run the club and range. Also, standing orders restrict shooting times and conditions.

I strongly doubt you will find anywhere that will just ooen up and let you at it under your own guidance and supervision.


Clearly, if it was booked for hire it would be at the convenience of the shooters and the club...if they don't have somebody willing to RO the day for a couple hundred dollars, then obviously they couldn't hire the range to us on that day. I'm sure there are members of many clubs that wouldn't mind spending a day helping a group of shooters, in return for a nice pocket full of cash.

I have not mentioned being unsupervised.

Since your club would happily make the range available to shooters, what would likely be the cost to the club to hire out the range for a weekday, say 0800-1700hrs, with one or two RO's as required, to perhaps a dozen licenced shooters, supplying all their own equipment?

I think you're in Tassie, Gwion?
For me, if I were making a trip down there, booking a day at the range would be a highlight that would certainly offset the expense involved in travelling down there.
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Re: Range hire

Post by Gwion » 09 Jul 2018, 11:08 pm

As i keep trying to explain, BladeRacer. Volunteer run ranges on private land that is working farm (most ranges in TAS are run this way) would be pushing the proverbial to be able to operate on a week day. Range standing orders would require 3 people on hand to supervise. They would need to be paid. The club would need significant finacial incentive to organise it...

We had an enquiry for a corporate team building session and as we quoted what we thought was reasonable and all interest evaporated.
From memory it was about $1800 for 12 people.
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Re: Range hire

Post by bladeracer » 09 Jul 2018, 11:20 pm

Gwion wrote:As i keep trying to explain, BladeRacer. Volunteer run ranges on private land that is working farm (most ranges in TAS are run this way) would be pushing the proverbial to be able to operate on a week day. Range standing orders would require 3 people on hand to supervise. They would need to be paid. The club would need significant finacial incentive to organise it...

We had an enquiry for a corporate team building session and as we quoted what we thought was reasonable and all interest evaporated.
From memory it was about $1800 for 12 people.


What is it that makes it non-viable on weekdays? I wouldn't have thought farms much care, or even know, whether it's a weekday or a weekend.

Thanks for providing some numbers.
Your range requires three staff to supervise even a single shooter?
Did the interest evaporate or did they find another range offered a better deal? The price does seem steeper than I would've expected for simple range hire. You need to unlock the gate for them to enter, lock it behind them, supervise them shooting all day - even with three staff - and then lock up after them. You also have some paperwork and insurances to cover, and probably some wear and tear on the toilet facilities perhaps. What more are you providing for $1800? The infrastructure is there whether the range is open or closed isn't it?

How many members does your club have and when is the range open currently?
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Re: Range hire

Post by Gwion » 09 Jul 2018, 11:45 pm

The enquiry was to organise a precision shoot for a group that included licenced and unlicenced people and included use of rifles and ammo.

So. Are you expecting one of our RO to take a mid week day of work or away from their farm or business so you can shoot? This coming from someone who "has no time to volunteer but would pay"...
Last edited by Gwion on 10 Jul 2018, 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Range hire

Post by bladeracer » 10 Jul 2018, 12:10 am

Gwion wrote:The enquiry was to organise a precision shoot for a group that included licenced and unlicenced people and included use of rifles and ammo.

So. Are you expecting one of our RO to ta ke a mid week day of work or away from their farm or business so you can shoot? This coming from someone who "has no time to volunteer but would pay"...


Okay, if you were having to supply everything, that would certainly blow out the pricing, considerably. Clearly for the example I offered the price would be very considerably lower.

No, I'm suggesting that one of your RO's, or an RO from somewhere else, might be available. Available as in, not working, or tied up with something else. And happy to help other shooters in exchange for a nice chunk of cash. And at several weeks notice. Obviously, if your club only has thirty or forty members, such hire would be non-viable, unless you have thousands of shooters in the region that aren't joining your club for various reasons.

I really can't see the difficulty in planning things weeks or months in advance, or why you seem to view it as the same as receiving a call out of the blue from a bloke at the gate wanting to know why it's locked when he booked the place eight weeks ago.
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Re: Range hire

Post by bladeracer » 10 Jul 2018, 12:22 am

Gwion wrote:So. Are you expecting one of our RO to ta ke a mid week day of work or away from their farm or business so you can shoot? This coming from someone who "has no time to volunteer but would pay"...


Going back to my example, I and ten mates contact you, just as that business group did, and between us we decide that you can take us on August 26th. If you know you don't have anybody available to run the day, why would you book us? It would be you, not me, that is expecting one of your people to drop everything when we arrive at the gate. So, we've booked an event. Meaning, you have somebody available. That person falls ill the night before the event. Have you left the planning with zero options to cover such a happenstance? Or do you simply contact the standby RO and ask them to take over (it's annoying, but that's why you have a standby RO)? Or do you call me and tell me at the last minute that the whole thing is off due to poor planning on your part?

As a self-employed carpenter, I have had to to step in to help fellow tradesmen out (even people I didn't know), and had to hire people to help me out when I've been stuck.

Those volunteers, that get paid from the proceeds, are providing a service to fellow shooters, supporting their own club, bringing in funds to the club, and letting a group of non-members see how much fun can be had at their range. They'll go away happy, talk to their mates, and organise more shoots.
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Re: Range hire

Post by Gwion » 10 Jul 2018, 8:49 am

You're just being obtuse and wasting my time.
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Re: Range hire

Post by sungazer » 10 Jul 2018, 9:46 am

I could probably arrange something along those lines. What calibres and distances did you have in mind? The range officially is restricted to 8mm But if only one gun was larger and not a 50 or something it that really big class we have made exceptions. Range would be out near Euroa.
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Re: Range hire

Post by Bills Shed » 10 Jul 2018, 10:06 am

Hi Bladeracer,
If ever you want to open up a range, run the show and organise everything let me know. I might come over and give you a couple of bucks for the priveliage.
Having organised a few shoots myself, it takes a bit of coordination and lots of organisation of permissions, maintenance and facilities even on established ranges. In small clubs, there is a small core of people that hold the place together and do most of the work. It is a big call to do unscheduled shoots, even with a bit of warning.

I think Gwion has been pretty straight with you. Why argue?

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Re: Range hire

Post by marksman » 10 Jul 2018, 6:34 pm

the ssaa eagle park used to hire there comp range out for $200 a day, no need for a range officer
I don't know if they still do, I'm talking about 2-3 years ago
the sub clubs are on a roster at this range and because they are open monday and friday you could get around that
if you were to have to have an RO the public range RO's get around $170 per day at eagle park, unless they volunteer for nothing for the sub clubs
this range is open to the public anyway so you wouldn't be booking the whole site just the comp range
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Re: Range hire

Post by bladeracer » 10 Jul 2018, 7:36 pm

Bills Shed wrote:Hi Bladeracer,
If ever you want to open up a range, run the show and organise everything let me know. I might come over and give you a couple of bucks for the priveliage.
Having organised a few shoots myself, it takes a bit of coordination and lots of organisation of permissions, maintenance and facilities even on established ranges. In small clubs, there is a small core of people that hold the place together and do most of the work. It is a big call to do unscheduled shoots, even with a bit of warning.

I think Gwion has been pretty straight with you. Why argue?

Bill


I'm not arguing at all :-)
As far as I can see we are discussing a problem and trying to find solutions to it.
What is it that makes range hire so difficult?
What are the differences between me hiring an established range for a day's shooting, and paying a farmer to shoot on his property for the day?

I know there is a small core that run every club, I haven't disputed that anywhere. I also know it is a big job, bigger than most members imagine. I am not in any way detracting from that. I also know that it is an even bigger job when you have to organise it to follow a schedule of competitions, as opposed to simply opening the gate for a group of shooters that are not shooting any competition.

I greatly appreciate what Gwion has offered to this discussion. It is very useful to see it from the view of a club, but it's not showing me how it makes it impossible to do these things.
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Re: Range hire

Post by bladeracer » 10 Jul 2018, 7:42 pm

marksman wrote:the ssaa eagle park used to hire there comp range out for $200 a day, no need for a range officer
I don't know if they still do, I'm talking about 2-3 years ago
the sub clubs are on a roster at this range and because they are open monday and friday you could get around that
if you were to have to have an RO the public range RO's get around $170 per day at eagle park, unless they volunteer for nothing for the sub clubs
this range is open to the public anyway so you wouldn't be booking the whole site just the comp range


Thanks Marksman.
Does, or did, this allow simple informal shooting or was it still required to follow competition practice lines?
Thanks for the numbers. $170 is far less than I would be expecting to hire an RO for the day.
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Re: Range hire

Post by marksman » 10 Jul 2018, 8:32 pm

at that time it was simple informal shooting eg.. gunsmiths testing all sorts of toys, to firearm manufacturers trying to sell the guns ect
and even company bonding type corporate days banging off all sorts of rifles and handguns
these days were done within the law as far as I know but without the bull roaring of the little dick inadequate RO's from there main range, oops :lol:
the management has changed now and it may be different to then :unknown:
and by the way its up to the range to what qualification an RO has in Vic, usually inhouse qualified
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Re: Range hire

Post by sungazer » 10 Jul 2018, 9:02 pm

The RO qualifications may be up to the range to a certain extent, However as there are really only two main types of ranges operated, either by the SSAA or under the banner of the VRA / NRAA. I know the VRA has a range accreditation test that extends to the NRAA as well. So there is a standard written test for the whole of Australia for the NRAA ranges the accreditation does have some levels which are really experienced based not written.
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Re: Range hire

Post by southwest shooter » 10 Jul 2018, 9:12 pm

Hey boys no need to have hissy fits .
I've got ranges organised , you've only got to get to Syria or crimea , whatever is easier .
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Re: Range hire

Post by Bills Shed » 11 Jul 2018, 9:35 am

If you get really desperate there is a perfect range for you in Paraburdoo. ( I will let you look it up ). It is a 600m range with mounds and target frames at each mound. 6 x Benches are provided and they are solid. (Cast concrete) Also you have open areas for 3P and field rifle. Overhead protection from the weather, (Read, tin mounted to used drill rods) you could camp there if you see the president of the club. You will not be bothered by more than one shooter a week, if that. There is also a shotgun DTL setup there and 5 stand, (also see the president of the club.) I built that trap house. Make sure you take a 4x4 as it is a gravel road and subject to water run off. Flys can be an issue in Summer and if you do not like iron ore country you will be in trouble! It is one of those places where you have the whole place to yourself for weeks at a time. Wood stocks are a bit of an issue as the termites can smell a fresh piece of wood at 3km. Take some spare water, 40+ in Summer is not uncommon. Do not worry about having colour schemed rifles as they will all be red at the end of the day, ( did I mention iron ore?). With all that in mind, it is still the best range I have ever shot on for sheer simplicity, piece and quiet and generally left to your own devices. Nobody is going to hear you scream. Enjoy

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Re: Range hire

Post by bladeracer » 11 Jul 2018, 12:25 pm

Bills Shed wrote:If you get really desperate there is a perfect range for you in Paraburdoo. ( I will let you look it up ). It is a 600m range with mounds and target frames at each mound. 6 x Benches are provided and they are solid. (Cast concrete) Also you have open areas for 3P and field rifle. Overhead protection from the weather, (Read, tin mounted to used drill rods) you could camp there if you see the president of the club. You will not be bothered by more than one shooter a week, if that. There is also a shotgun DTL setup there and 5 stand, (also see the president of the club.) I built that trap house. Make sure you take a 4x4 as it is a gravel road and subject to water run off. Flys can be an issue in Summer and if you do not like iron ore country you will be in trouble! It is one of those places where you have the whole place to yourself for weeks at a time. Wood stocks are a bit of an issue as the termites can smell a fresh piece of wood at 3km. Take some spare water, 40+ in Summer is not uncommon. Do not worry about having colour schemed rifles as they will all be red at the end of the day, ( did I mention iron ore?). With all that in mind, it is still the best range I have ever shot on for sheer simplicity, piece and quiet and generally left to your own devices. Nobody is going to hear you scream. Enjoy

Bill


Sounds like absolute bliss!
Love the Pilbara and the Kimberley :-)
I grew up in South Hedland, and my dad did a short stint at Mt Newman, but I don't recall if I ever got to Paraburdoo. But, as a firearm owner, I have no intention of ever crossing that border again. California has more sensible firearm laws than WA.

My question in my last post was legitimate, what are the differences between a range and a farm that make range hire virtually impossible?
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Re: Range hire

Post by bladeracer » 11 Jul 2018, 12:27 pm

We have an amazing, and very rare, day here today, warm, dry, sunshine, no wind at all, perfect for load development...but I'm crook as a dog :-(
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Re: Range hire

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 11 Jul 2018, 9:16 pm

That's law of universe in action
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Re: Range hire

Post by bladeracer » 12 Jul 2018, 1:01 am

Ziad wrote:That's law of universe in action


Yep, everything is against us :-)
I spent an hour sitting in the sun with the dog (he adores baby creatures), watching our baby rabbits venturing out into the sunshine, very relaxing. Then had more drugs and went back to bed. I'm over the hump I think, and hoping to be well enough to go up to Frankston to pick up some more rifles for the weekend.
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Re: Range hire

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 12 Jul 2018, 8:57 am

Lol you need a safe bugg enough to fit a house, actually saw plans for a new house that actually had a built in safe room... and labelled as such, and it's an Australian company
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Re: Range hire

Post by Daddybang » 12 Jul 2018, 9:41 am

Bills Shed wrote:If you get really desperate there is a perfect range for you in Paraburdoo. ( I will let you look it up ). It is a 600m range with mounds and target frames at each mound. 6 x Benches are provided and they are solid. (Cast concrete) Also you have open areas for 3P and field rifle. Overhead protection from the weather, (Read, tin mounted to used drill rods) you could camp there if you see the president of the club. You will not be bothered by more than one shooter a week, if that. There is also a shotgun DTL setup there and 5 stand, (also see the president of the club.) I built that trap house. Make sure you take a 4x4 as it is a gravel road and subject to water run off. Flys can be an issue in Summer and if you do not like iron ore country you will be in trouble! It is one of those places where you have the whole place to yourself for weeks at a time. Wood stocks are a bit of an issue as the termites can smell a fresh piece of wood at 3km. Take some spare water, 40+ in Summer is not uncommon. Do not worry about having colour schemed rifles as they will all be red at the end of the day, ( did I mention iron ore?). With all that in mind, it is still the best range I have ever shot on for sheer simplicity, piece and quiet and generally left to your own devices. Nobody is going to hear you scream. Enjoy

Bill


Yep just got ta try to get ya firearms into the weirdness that is WA !!!! :lol: :drinks:
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Re: Range hire

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 12 Jul 2018, 11:34 am

They will stop you at the border and put you in the immigration detention centre.
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