6.5x52mm Carcano

[bladeracer]

They were loaded rounds i saw at holts

Yep, they got back to me, ammunition only, no bullets

[bladeracer]

http://www.osaaustralia.com.au/products/projectiles/rifle-projectiles/6-5mm-268-caliber-268-carcano/
hornady make a bullet for the carcano

I finally have 200 of these suckers in hand!
Been chasing them up everywhere for months and none existed anywhere in Oz.
I emailed Hornady last week and asked them when they were doing a new run of the Carcano bullet - and they're doing a production run this month!
So I placed a back order via my local to ensure I get some.
I also ordered another 300 of the .264" 160gn RN to replenish my dwindling supply.
Got a call this morning that they had come in...along with the 200 Carcano bullets????
Seems the distributor had two boxes on the shelf that nobody had been able to find after numerous requests from various dealers

I'm shooting a single load in my Carcano as it's the only one that works
Hornady 160gn .264" RN on 28.5gn of AR2206H making around 1950fps. 30gn pushes it over 2000fps but with definite signs of pressure, and is unnecessary with the big fat 160gn round nose bullet.
Over the open sights it holds around 3MoA at 100m but 30-40mm low. Hopefully this week I'll be able to test shoot these and decide if they offer anything over the .264" version.

[Heckler303]

I admire anyone willing to go through all the BS and seriously try to make a carcano shoot well.

A Lee Enfield in 303-6.5 would not be half as much trouble as these POS.

[bladeracer]

I admire anyone willing to go through all the BS and seriously try to make a carcano shoot well.

A Lee Enfield in 303-6.5 would not be half as much trouble as these POS.

I hadn't really planned to make it shoot well, I just want to be able to shoot it
I'm pretty happy with the accuracy so far, but I should be able to tweak it a bit better without too much effort I hope.

But the Lee would be far heavier and bulkier, and the cost of rebarreling to a wildcat would far outweigh my $200 investment in this little beauty
The 30% increase in powder might be useful but the M96 or M38 would be a better choice than the Lee.

[No1Mk3]

G'day bladeracer,
Would be interested to see how you go. My load for the rifle and carbine is 27.0g of 2206H, Hornady .268 160gRN, WLR primer, Norma case. It works very well in the Cavalry Carbine and M38, but is a bit slow in the rifle for 500m, having quite a bit of drop.

[bladeracer]

G'day bladeracer,
Would be interested to see how you go. My load for the rifle and carbine is 27.0g of 2206H, Hornady .268 160gRN, WLR primer, Norma case. It works very well in the Cavalry Carbine and M38, but is a bit slow in the rifle for 500m, having quite a bit of drop.

Will do.
I just loaded up twelve rounds with the .264" bullet and six rounds with the .267" bullet - both on 28.5gn of AR2206H.
I haven't tried below 28gn so far, with the .264" bullet I needed to push it hard to get it to seal and give pressure.
Have you tried the .264" 160gn RN as well?

My trajectory with the .264" 160gn RN at 1950fps with the standard sights gives a 75m zero, 15mm high at 50m, 35mm low at 100m, 180mm low at 150m, 450mm low at 200m, 1400mm low at 300m, 3100mm low at 400m and 5800mm low at 500m. That's a lot of Kentucky hold-over, and my 3MoA rifle is dropping them into a 450mm circle at best. The .264" bullet has very slightly better BC, which reduces 500m drop by about 100mm
To zero mine at 500mm I need to be 1100mm high at 100m, with a 5mm shorter front sight.

What size bullseye are you aiming at at 500m? I'd like to give it a go myself

The bullet drops under the magical 800ft/lbs at 175m so I'm thinking a 125mm zero would be neat. 60mm high at 75m and 160mm low at 175m. This would require filing the front sight down 0.3mm.

[bladeracer]

I have read about drilling into the back of projectiles to create sort of a minnie ball for using under size projectiles for rounds like the Carcano.
The hot gasses cause the projectile to expand into the rifling.
I can copy out whats in my book if you're interested to know more about the idea.

I might try that with the lighter bullets as they don't have enough mass or bearing surface to seal the bore even with full-power loads.

[Tiger650]

Anyone with any knowledge has to love the Mausers.

Good luck shooting pigs with the 6.5 Carcano, the Italian army tried hard to replace that rifle with the 7.7 version after their Abyssinian campaign of the early 1930's the damn thing would not stop savages worth a damn.

Mussolini thought it adequate, he not being one of the Grunts being put to the sword by an imperfectly perforated heathen.

Then again someone apparently used one put two rds into John Kennedy's moving head at 250 yds !

Back 20 yrs odd someone with too much time and money chambered the cartridge in a modern bench gun, shooting modern bullets etc, there were articles in the Sporting Shooter, the project petered out at above 1/4 MOA which was a s**t result given the equipment and effort involved.

All this is either hearsay or research, you decide but I reckon put a bayonet on the Carcano if you shoot it at a pig !

Back in the early '70's you could buy one for $25.00, that being maybe $26.00 more than they were worth LOL.

Mussolini and his missus were beaten and hung from the front of a servo, not really a "Day of the Jackal" hit.

[bladeracer]

Anyone with any knowledge has to love the Mausers.

Good luck shooting pigs with the 6.5 Carcano, the Italian army tried hard to replace that rifle with the 7.7 version after their Abyssinian campaign of the early 1930's the damn thing would not stop savages worth a damn.

Mussolini thought it adequate, he not being one of the Grunts being put to the sword by an imperfectly perforated heathen.

Then again someone apparently used one put two rds into John Kennedy's moving head at 250 yds !

Back 20 yrs odd someone with too much time and money chambered the cartridge in a modern bench gun, shooting modern bullets etc, there were articles in the Sporting Shooter, the project petered out at above 1/4 MOA which was a s**t result given the equipment and effort involved.

All this is either hearsay or research, you decide but I reckon put a bayonet on the Carcano if you shoot it at a pig !

Back in the early '70's you could buy one for $25.00, that being maybe $26.00 more than they were worth LOL.

I doubt military bullets in the 1930's were as effective as modern hunting bullets
I can't see too many pigs shaking off a 160gn RN at 2000fps - pretty much equivalent to the 30-30Win.
And I would love one of the folding bayonets

I'm not interested in sub-MoA out of it, particularly as I won't be scoping it or shooting match bullets. 2MoA would be outstanding for an unscoped hunting rifle for use out to 175m on medium game.

At $200 I think I paid less than $25 was worth in the 70's
In '83 I paid $159 for my sporterised M96 and $99 for my all original M38 - both from Fullers.

[Tiger650]

Skinny little Abyssinian heathen ****** needed a bigger hole put in them !

Defending the Italian Grunt.

He was mostly a conscript probably and did not care about Il Duche's colonial ambitions, when confronted by the Brits in the Western Desert he threw down his Carcano and was treated decently, possibly ending up in Australia helping on a farm as a trustee.

Hence lots of Wogs coming to Australia post WW2, good people too who work hard and do not want to kill me because I do not believe in their imaginary friend.

[deanp100]

Anyone with any knowledge has to love the Mausers.

Good luck shooting pigs with the 6.5 Carcano, the Italian army tried hard to replace that rifle with the 7.7 version after their Abyssinian campaign of the early 1930's the damn thing would not stop savages worth a damn.

Mussolini thought it adequate, he not being one of the Grunts being put to the sword by an imperfectly perforated heathen.

Then again someone apparently used one put two rds into John Kennedy's moving head at 250 yds !

Back 20 yrs odd someone with too much time and money chambered the cartridge in a modern bench gun, shooting modern bullets etc, there were articles in the Sporting Shooter, the project petered out at above 1/4 MOA which was a s**t result given the equipment and effort involved.

All this is either hearsay or research, you decide but I reckon put a bayonet on the Carcano if you shoot it at a pig !

Back in the early '70's you could buy one for $25.00, that being maybe $26.00 more than they were worth LOL.

Mussolini and his missus were beaten and hung from the front of a servo, not really a "Day of the Jackal" hit.

Complete lies. I killed a pig with one when I was 12. A beautiful 140 gr Sierra boattail did the job. But I did say just one pig.

[No1Mk3]

G'day Tiger650,
You're a way off with your analysis of the 6.5 Carcano, firstly JFK was shot at 250 FEET, that is 83 yards. Ballistically the Carcano is more powerful than the 6.5 Mannlicher which has taken literally hundreds of elephant, so it is a capable round. The main problem from a military viewpoint is that the 160gn RN FMJ does not tumble upon impact and can often leave through and through wounds of small diameter that do not stop an adrenaline filled combatant. I agree the Italian soldier was a good fighting man but most lacked enthusiasm for their Fascist overlord, and was quite willing to chuck it in if he could. My late Father in Law fought them in Yugoslavia and he had great respect for the Alpine troops, but none at all for the plain conscript infantry. And despite post-war stereotyping one can also note that of the 5000 Division Folgore paratroopers in Nth Africa, only 294 survived, having stood their ground and fought to the last bullet. Modern Prvi ammo is loaded with 160gn SP, and will kill anything in Australia with good shot placement. Cheers.

[juststarting]

Necro time...

New additions to my set...





I found old Milsurp Carcano ammo, a box of 50 and a few random lose bags of cartridges at Melbourne Arms & Militaria Fair.

The box and a few coper (projectiles) looking cartridges are probably going into storage, but the lose rounds I will shoot. I did have to pull a couple. I will post the measurement data when I get around to it, however, at this stage I do have a couple of question:

1. Why do some of them have silver/metallic projectiles and some copper looking projectiles. Please educate
2. They do have Berdan primer. They are a mix bag of headstamps but all Italian (http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/c ... story.html). Question, is it corrosive like the Mosin milsurp ammo? That is, do I need to scrub it for dear life after I shoot it?


Thanks!

[in2anity]

Necro time...
Thanks!

jebus weirdest looking cartridge i did ever see

[juststarting]

That doesn't help :/

[No1Mk3]

G'day juststarting,
Pour a cup of boiling water through the barrel, all corrosive salts will wash away, clean rifle as per usual. Why you have some nickel and some copper is that all military cartridges were once nickel but cost considerations, among a few other reasons, made them change to copper. This is common with 303, where MkVI is nickel and MkVII can be found with both, and MkVIIz is only copper. Cheers.

[bladeracer]

I was discussing the 6.5x52mm and went to Hornady for some data. They no longer list the .267" bullet - has it been discontinued perhaps? It doesn't work for me, but I know some people have found it works for them.

[yumastepside]

I don't really want to get into this ****** about carcano's, their bullet's or Italians in general..........I have two Carcano's, one full length gain twist barrel and the other one, a carbine....not sure which one I'll use yet but I have a .264 barrel from a Swede and a 6.5x54 MS reamer so the idea is to cut off the x52 barrel and internally thread it, screw the 264 barrel into that and cut the new chamber.Cases are a bit more expensive but you can buy projectiles for it.
The 6.5x54 MS has taken every thing from elephant down, if you do your part.



Roger

........not mine, but what I'm after....



....not mine either, but an interesting concept....

[bladeracer]

I don't really want to get into this ****** about carcano's, their bullet's or Italians in general..........I have two Carcano's, one full length gain twist barrel and the other one, a carbine....not sure which one I'll use yet but I have a .264 barrel from a Swede and a 6.5x54 MS reamer so the idea is to cut off the x52 barrel and internally thread it, screw the 264 barrel into that and cut the new chamber.Cases are a bit more expensive but you can buy projectiles for it.
The 6.5x54 MS has taken every thing from elephant down, if you do your part.

Why do you want to change to a different 6.5mm cartridge? Is your bore shot out?

For me, the big deficit in the Carcano is the feed system, get rid of that and the rifle would be much more useful. The 6.5x52mm cartridge is not lacking, and the rifle is very enjoyable to shoot.

I made some 6.5x54R from .303 brass last night, just ran it into the 6.5x50mm die pushing the shoulder back until it chambered in the rifle.
Had hoped to shoot them today but didn't manage it.

The rifle came from a collector who caked everything in grease decades ago and never fired it. It took me a couple hours to strip it right down and scrub out the crud. The bolt was so packed with grease as to be virtually hydraulic. The muzzle is still tight at .266", but the throat is very long. These are light loads with 95gn VMax's at 2.820" for fireforming the brass - they would touch the lands at 3.487". Even with the 160gn RN just seating into the trimmed case, the longest would be 3.155" overall, but the blunt bullet should be getting very close to the lands at that point. The brass chambers just fine without trimming but I thought it better to trim it, at least until I cast the chamber, so it might be possible to single-feed (like the Carcano, by removing the bolt, fitting the round to the bolt face and reinstalling it) for more accuracy. Mag length though is only around 3.000".

[yumastepside]

I have no problem with either the Carcano or the 6.5x52 cartridge, nor are the barrels shot out in the two rifles. The main reason for the re-barrel is the availability of .264 projectiles.One rifle will remain in it's original calibre.
I'm not sure whether we have crossed wires here or not, but I'm talking about the Mannlicher Schonauer 6.5x54, not the rimmed version.



As the x54 will be a sporter, I will most likely convert it to a removeable box magazine so it can be scoped.


....taken from the net...

Roger

[bladeracer]

I have no problem with either the Carcano or the 6.5x52 cartridge, nor are the barrels shot out in the two rifles. The main reason for the re-barrel is the availability of .264 projectiles.One rifle will remain in it's original calibre.
I'm not sure whether we have crossed wires here or not, but I'm talking about the Mannlicher Schonauer 6.5x54, not the rimmed version.



As the x54 will be a sporter, I will most likely convert it to a removeable box magazine so it can be scoped.


....taken from the net...

Roger

But if you are going to rebarrel it anyway, why not just cut a 6.5x52mm chamber in the new .264" barrel?

No, I know the two cartridges are different

[yumastepside]

It's mainly the fact that I have a 6.5x54 reamer and I can't afford a real MS, so think of this as a poor man's Mannlicher......

Roger

[bladeracer]

It's mainly the fact that I have a 6.5x54 reamer and I can't afford a real MS, so think of this as a poor man's Mannlicher......

Roger

That is a very good reason

[bladeracer]

Finally took some pics of my 1940 M91/38 Short Rifle.
It's from FNA Brescia, but has a Birmingham BNP proof mark on the barrel and receiver - anybody know why that might be?
Can anybody tell me what the "40-XVIII" mark indicates? 1940 perhaps?
The folder is an unsharpened Atlanta Cutlery replica, the sling is a Chinese AK item.

[bladeracer]

I managed to test some Hornady 140gn Interlock SP's just now and they made round holes, so I'll make up some more and see how they shoot alongside the 160gn RN.

[yumastepside]

Are you on any of the military restoration forums?

Roger

[bladeracer]

Are you on any of the military restoration forums?

Roger

No, I have no interest in restoring any milsurps, I prefer them original, shootable, and "as is".
Are there forums worth having a look at?
I am going to have to rebarrel my Type38 Carbine.

[yumastepside]

For the moment, I'll put some of your pics on one and get some info for you.

Roger

[bladeracer]

For the moment, I'll put some of your pics on one and get some info for you.

Roger

Mint, I think I've got it mostly identified, just strange that it has Birmingham proofs. I'd like to know if those are original or if they indicate it went into British stores at some point.
And I can't work out the XVIII after the 1940 date.

I should put some pics up of my M95 Dutch as I still haven't been able to identify it.

[yumastepside]

The 40-x whatever is the Fascist year date, still waiting to hear about the British proof. You might want to look at joining Milsurps.com, Lots of information on ex-military rifles, sporterised or not.

Roger