Stalking Vs Target shooting

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Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by TassieTiger » 05 Nov 2018, 1:59 pm

Hi all,
1st post and am relatively new to firearms - but I do have an elder assisting me in reloading, etc etc.
I currently have 2 centrefire rifles - that are medium weight barrels.(Tikka 260 and Steyr 223 pro varmint).
I love these rifles and they have been tuned to the point of shooting 1/2 moa - with almost anyone behind the trigger.
I've recently found cause to replace my broken 30-06 vanguard which was a sport weight barrel and whilst this was a a MOA rifle - after 5 shots, the barrel was too hot to touch for more than 10 seconds, so I stopped shooting it. This was fine - because the 30-06 was used for hunting predominantly.
BUT - I'm starting to enjoy more and more bench rest target shooting at my private property range - so my question after all that is;

Those of you that enjoy both stalking hunting and target shooting - what weight barrels do you gravitate towards ? Despite the barrel of my TIkka 260 being optimised back to 21 inches, I cannot imagine dragging it a few klms into the bush, with the leo scope and other pimped out bits - it must be upwards of 10 lb.
Is there a weighted barrel that is light enough to carry but can withstand some bench rest abuse with 5-6 shots inside a couple of minutes ? Or do I just need to harden up and carry the heavier barrel? Is there a particular brand of lighter weight rifle that can handle the abuse of bench rest better than others ?
Sorry if these questions have been asked before - I think I have an inclining as to the answer, but hey - I've got serious L plates on and I don't want to assume anything.
Thanks.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by bigpete » 05 Nov 2018, 8:34 pm

Just have 2 guns,one for targets and one for stalking.
Personally,I hate heavy rifles with a passion and I'd doubt any of mine go over 8lb fully loaded,and that's the heavy ones. But if I were to do target shooting I'd just have a separate gun for the job with all the wanky stuff on it.
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by bigrich » 05 Nov 2018, 8:37 pm

there's no such thing as a silly question, it's how we learn. i try to encourage the apprentice at work to ask MORE questions so he's more knowledgable. best thing i can think of is use fluted barrels which are more rigid, but lighter than a solid "bull" barrel. i had a old krico hornet rifle that was brilliantly accurate, but was a pain to lug around with a heavy barrel. i traded up to a model 70 winchester 222. whilst not being as lightweight as some 222 rifles (cz 527 ) ,it does point better without it being "nose heavy". besides that, in the field your likely to get 2 shots off before everything has bolted, so you only need a sporter barrel, not a heavy target one. i only shoot 3 shot groups for this reason. have a dedicated bench rifle, and a dedicated stalking rifle. suitable caliber for a hunter all depends on game. i see your in tassie so a sporter in 260 rem would be a good choice.i'm a 6.5x55 fan myself. another perspective is during WW2, aussie troops carried 303's and "bren" light machine guns (25 lb loaded) up and down mountain rain forrests in new guinea :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by tom604 » 06 Nov 2018, 6:02 am

if your hunting go light, and if your not doing benchrest comps, go light, heavy barrels have their place but if your not doing comps why bother? its all good to try for those tiny groups (everyone loves tiny groups) but in a hunting situation, as long as you are consistent, moa is more than fine,,rabbit head=2 inches . not that you shoot as well when your hunting as you do from a bench but you get my drift :thumbsup:
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by SCJ429 » 06 Nov 2018, 7:10 am

If your Tikka is a Varmint or Similar profiled barrel it should be a great way to start out in competition shooting. Use some quality 140 grain projectiles and quality optics. This should also make a great long range hunting rig. If my rifle was getting too heavy for me to lug around I would start dumping stuff out of my pack.... First aid kit, range finder, rain jacket knives etc...or just work on my fitness.
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by bigfellascott » 06 Nov 2018, 7:55 am

Yep 2 different requirements so you really need 2 different rifles to suit the purpose or get used to lumping round a heavy rifle (which I for many many years) now days I prefer them lighter as I get older. :thumbsup:
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by TassieTiger » 06 Nov 2018, 8:20 am

Thanks for the replies - appreciate all that have taken time.
Where I hunt it’s all hills, at 48 years young, every extra pound hurts.

Q- Does a fluted barrel actually aid cooling OR is it simply making a “thinner barrel” thus its going to make the heat soak worse?
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ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by bigrich » 06 Nov 2018, 8:37 am

TassieTiger wrote:Thanks for the replies - appreciate all that have taken time.
Where I hunt it’s all hills, at 48 years young, every extra pound hurts.

Q- Does a fluted barrel actually aid cooling OR is it simply making a “thinner barrel” thus its going to make the heat soak worse?


I believe a fluted barrel will cool quicker, as it has more surface area. I would think it would resist change in point of aim better as the ribs on the barrel increase barrel diameter and so increase rigidity as it heats up. But a fluted barrel would be lighter than a solid “bull” barrel. JMHO :thumbsup:
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by Stix » 06 Nov 2018, 9:15 am

I prefer light...although for a long time i didnt think the modern sporter Tikka T3 synthetic type felt "like a real rifle"...now days thats all i drag around if out walking (with the exception of a shotty).

There is always the option of getting a heavy barrel re profiled/or upon a re-barrel, getting a mid weight profled barrel....so not as light as a sporter but not as heavy as a varmint.

For what its worth, one of my rifles has a fluted barrel & it does 'seem' to cool down quicker. :thumbsup:

Also, not that it helps your predicament, when i target shoot/load test on warm days i shoot 3 shot groups & use a damp cotton rag (just wet enough to not drip)...i wrap it around the barrel with bolt & mag removed & the sporter weight barrels cool down in mo time...
2018-11-06 09.31.52.jpg
Rapid barrel cool.
2018-11-06 09.31.52.jpg (734.79 KiB) Viewed 5599 times

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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by bigfellascott » 06 Nov 2018, 11:56 am

You don't need to worry about cooling in a stalking outfit, not like you are lobbing lead one after the other for 10 shots. I've got a Tikka Hunter Fluted in 308 and it's nice and light to carry around, would I use it to poke paper, not in your life, it's designed for hunting not poking paper.

Just buy the appropriate gear for the job and be done with it. if you want light go something with a thin barrel and lightweight composite stock of some sort with a light set of mounts and a light scope.
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by Archie » 06 Nov 2018, 12:50 pm

bigrich wrote:...another perspective is during WW2, aussie troops carried 303's and "bren" light machine guns (25 lb loaded) up and down mountain rain forrests in new guinea :thumbsup: :drinks:


If the rabbits shot back I'd pack something heavier too, but until that happens it's hard to motivate me to ditch the sporter barrel and the carbon fibre...
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by Stix » 06 Nov 2018, 12:54 pm

Archie wrote:
bigrich wrote:...another perspective is during WW2, aussie troops carried 303's and "bren" light machine guns (25 lb loaded) up and down mountain rain forrests in new guinea :thumbsup: :drinks:


If the rabbits shot back I'd pack something heavier too, but until that happens it's hard to motivate me to ditch the sporter barrel and the carbon fibre...


Love analogy Archie...!! :lol:

Im the same when it comes to killing sharks along the coast---when one walks through my house & bites my arse im happy for someone to put a round in its brain...!
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by TassieTiger » 06 Nov 2018, 2:54 pm

When you first start out and someone says this hunting rifle is 4.8kgs you think - sheesh. Lightweight. But then you put your pack up, swing the rifle and walk a couple ks up the side of a cliff and I’m breathing so hard the roo could hear me from 5klms away....

My 260 tikka started as a 24inch heavy varmint and was chronographed back .5 inches a time to be settled on 21.5 inches. That was a bit of a weight saving but then add in the over size bolt handle, steel receiver shroud, 6.5-20 Leo scope with bubble rings and all that weight plus more is back on...heck, I think the snake skin plasti coating feels like it added 1kg!!! Lol. It’s a lovely fun and there is not a shot I’ve lined up when I wish it was not that rifle in my hands...but it’s too darn bloody heavy.

Hmmm maybe the new M18 Mauser might fit my 30-06 hunting requirement....
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by SCJ429 » 06 Nov 2018, 7:23 pm

Five cut and recrowning? What did that cost you? You will lose a little velocity but that barrel will be nice and stiff. What ranges did you want to compete at?
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by bigrich » 06 Nov 2018, 7:33 pm

Stix wrote:
Archie wrote:
bigrich wrote:...another perspective is during WW2, aussie troops carried 303's and "bren" light machine guns (25 lb loaded) up and down mountain rain forrests in new guinea :thumbsup: :drinks:


If the rabbits shot back I'd pack something heavier too, but until that happens it's hard to motivate me to ditch the sporter barrel and the carbon fibre...


Love analogy Archie...!! :lol:

Im the same when it comes to killing sharks along the coast---when one walks through my house & bites my arse im happy for someone to put a round in its brain...!


i reckon if you could lug it around , a bren would make a interesting pig gun :lol: you'd want to be seriously into reloading i think :D my grandfather (world war 2 vet ), told me when i was a kid, that first series brens were VERY accurate. they actually had to make them spray more in later models to be more usefull as a anti aircraft and support weapon. never know , some ducks might go past :lol: :thumbsup:
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by bigrich » 06 Nov 2018, 7:48 pm

TassieTiger wrote:When you first start out and someone says this hunting rifle is 4.8kgs you think - sheesh. Lightweight. But then you put your pack up, swing the rifle and walk a couple ks up the side of a cliff and I’m breathing so hard the roo could hear me from 5klms away....

My 260 tikka started as a 24inch heavy varmint and was chronographed back .5 inches a time to be settled on 21.5 inches. That was a bit of a weight saving but then add in the over size bolt handle, steel receiver shroud, 6.5-20 Leo scope with bubble rings and all that weight plus more is back on...heck, I think the snake skin plasti coating feels like it added 1kg!!! Lol. It’s a lovely fun and there is not a shot I’ve lined up when I wish it was not that rifle in my hands...but it’s too darn bloody heavy.

Hmmm maybe the new M18 Mauser might fit my 30-06 hunting requirement....


i believe fallow deer is the largest game in tassie, maybe a 260 rem, 6.5x55 or 270 win sporter would be a good carry rifle with enough downrange punch. 3-9 or 4-12 x40 leupold scope ? :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by marksman » 06 Nov 2018, 8:26 pm

for stalking I think its obvious that you would want to have something you can carry around but for varminting a heavier barrel is better and way more forgiving
I have been shooting rabbits in the last week or so with varmint barrels that I lug the gear to where I can shoot and settle in, yes its a s**t of a walk for about 100 but I am shooting at up to 300 or more off these warrens, the type of shooting is different and the gear is different as well, they have there place
a short fat barrel shoots more precise than a thin barrel its up to what you want :thumbsup:
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by TassieTiger » 06 Nov 2018, 10:00 pm

SCJ429 wrote:Five cut and recrowning? What did that cost you? You will lose a little velocity but that barrel will be nice and stiff. What ranges did you want to compete at?


Not competing - just fun and hunting...I didn’t build the gun - a local shop owner did and i was then in the right place at the right time and I’ve now done a couple of my own mods - but the hard yards was all local shop and local Smith.

I was told before purchase that With 120gn Nosler and 45.5gns ar2209 it’s shooting 2 inch groups at 500 metres with an experienced rifleman and 4 inches with a newbie / anyone. Whilst I was initially very sceptical of these claims, I can now say with some recent lands testing - that I’ve witnessed the capability and have personally shot a group of 3 to 13mm at 200m which blew me away - as I’m pretty useless. See pic.

It was cut .5 inches a time to ensure velocity
was not being given up holistically and the chart shows that only some 50fps average was lost from the 24 inches to 21.5 with the above load and apparently even less with 140’s. I’d guess it may lose a little more with the lighter projectiles (it was shooting well over 3300 FPS with hornady 95’s at full length but due to the work put in - they stuck with120’s as a middle ground for full testing - so I’m told anyway). This shorter barrel completely screwed with my head - as growing up in something of an “ignorant” firearm household I was lead to believe that longer barrels = speed and whilst that remains true to a degree, its definitely snot clear cut.

I’ve never owned a centre fire like this - one that Instills so much confidence. It’s a bloody good feeling lol and that’s part of the problem - because now I want a light weight 06 hunter to do the same lol and it’s prob not realistic (sad face).

I’ll try and load my first photo - if it works it’s 260 lapua cases, 120gn Nosler, 45.5 ar2209, cci primers, bi pod and desk with Caldwell rear bag at 200m.
Slight confusion now is that this group was matched whilst testing, with a projectile that was seated out 1.9mm further - a hairs breath away from touching the lands so now I need to test again both lengths again.
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390AE7EC-5848-49F6-959C-9F5C5CC12E2A.jpeg
71.90 COAL and pulled one shot right
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E1B8C0B4-D5AA-41AD-AD4C-26EF4A104E38.jpeg
13mm
E1B8C0B4-D5AA-41AD-AD4C-26EF4A104E38.jpeg (478.5 KiB) Viewed 5490 times
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by bigrich » 07 Nov 2018, 4:39 am

That’s a very fine shooting rifle with great capabilities. From what you’ve posted, I think the 260 Tikka is probably utilised as a long range Varminator and target rifle. A stalking rifle needs to be lighter and more “pointable “ IMHO. I think a 30-06 might be more rifle than you need for fallow deer, light rifles in larger caliber tend to recoil a lot more as well. Cheers
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by TassieTiger » 07 Nov 2018, 10:39 am

and target rifle. A stalking rifle needs to be lighter and more “pointable “ IMHO. I think a 30-06 might be more rifle than you need for fallow deer, light rifles in larger caliber tend to recoil a lot more as well. Cheers[/quote]

It’s a better rifle than I am marksman at present...
I agree that The 30-06 is too much but it’s just so much fun and I have mountains of reloads already made, dies, projectiles, etc...though the reloads probably work in next rifle...but I just enjoy that caliber.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by bigrich » 07 Nov 2018, 11:25 am

Yeah well, at the end of the day it’s whatever floats ya boat or tickles ya fancy. 30-06 is one of the greats that’s for sure. I know one thing tas, ask a opinion of ten people, you’ll get ten slightly different answers . Cheers
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by TassieTiger » 07 Nov 2018, 3:14 pm

Pic of 260 Remington I keep referring too...attached.

Going to try the new Mauser M18 for weight in the 30/06...someone on here has said they are guaranteeing sub moa with 5 shots - so that implies they can deal with at least some heat...as 5 shots rolled out in quick succession is generally enough to get the sporty barrels that I’ve owned - very hot...
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Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by bigrich » 07 Nov 2018, 3:37 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Pic of 260 Remington I keep referring too...attached.

Going to try the new Mauser M18 for weight in the 30/06...someone on here has said they are guaranteeing sub moa with 5 shots - so that implies they can deal with at least some heat...as 5 shots rolled out in quick succession is generally enough to get the sporty barrels that I’ve owned - very hot...


yup, nice rifle tas. i just hope you don't come back to it one day to find it's been swallowed by a bush python :lol: anything with "mauser" on it and made in germany should be good. wouldn't worry about five shots in a hunting rifle mate. first two or three shots is all that counts. i recently got a stainless/synthetic . some of my friends give me greif cause i swore i only ever wanted wood and blued steel rifles :lol: i got a sako a7 in 308 win. it's light, very accurate. it's like if a sako and a tikka t3 lite had a barstard child :lol: sako 85 trigger , and sako 75 action/ barrel means it's a pretty good thing :thumbsup:
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by TassieTiger » 07 Nov 2018, 4:45 pm

I like the sound of sako and tikka having offspring rifles - that’s right up tassies alley as aren’t sako/tikka cousins lol :lol: :friends: :silent: :drinks:
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by SCJ429 » 07 Nov 2018, 7:48 pm

If you like the 30/06 don't ever test drive a 300WSM.

If I had a choice between the German made rifle and one from Scandinavia, I think the Finn would get the nod.
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by marksman » 07 Nov 2018, 9:06 pm

shot placement is everything
I have a great feeling of regard for the 30-06
even for shooting fallow :drinks:
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and I really have a sickening affection for mauser rifles :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by Gormanchov » 08 Nov 2018, 9:40 am

I went down the route of getting a do everything rifle, Tikka T3 CTR in 308with a Burris XTR II in 3x15-50.

Reason for this is I was just starting shooting again and was dabbling with f-class as well as hunting.

Rifle and scope unloaded comes in at 4.3kg without the bipod. Very noticeable for the first couple of hunts walking up and down hillsides but you do get used to it. This combination is really accurate and points well even in closer scrub conditions.

My next challenge is convincing the wife that it’s too much weight for proper mountain hunting and I need to spend money on a lightweight setup, might have to get her to come out on the next hunt and lug it around a bit.
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 08 Nov 2018, 11:02 am

Just buy it and then apologize.... it's easier. Maybe add something nice for her like a new oven mitten or a baking tray



Hahahaha j/k I do not take any responsibility if she ends up using the rifle on you
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by Stix » 08 Nov 2018, 8:14 pm

Ziad wrote:Just buy it and then apologize.... it's easier. Maybe add something nice for her like a new oven mitten or a baking tray



Hahahaha j/k I do not take any responsibility if she ends up using the rifle on you



Yes folks...for those who've just tuned in, on enough gun today were chatting with relationship expert ZIAD on how to best keep you wife happy enough to let you buy another gun...and for those already tuned in, yes you DID hear right...DR ZIAD said just buy the gun without permission or discussion, & throw the missus a new oven mit or baking tray to keep her happy... :shock: :o :shock: :shock:

AHH...Fark...you crack me up... LMFAO :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Stalking Vs Target shooting

Post by TassieTiger » 08 Nov 2018, 9:26 pm

In my house it goes like this...
Wife-Why do you want another gun?
Me - Because this next gun is different and fits me better...
Wife - bulls**t, you can only shoot one gun at a time...
Me - yeah, well I haven’t seen you wearing more than 1 pair of bloody shoes and when I have as many guns as you do shoes then you can comment...
Wife - here, have a $@#%€en shoe then...”thud”.
Me - I’ll take that as a “do what ever you want then”.
Wife - no! We can’t afford it.

2 weeks later.
Wife at friends bbq...Hey, did you bring the meat?
No - I didn’t shoot anything.
Why not, you’ve never not bought something...?
Well I would have, but I had the wrong gun with me, it wasn’t suitable for the shot, but this other gun I’m looking at- well, meat would be a plenty...
Ffs, but the damn gun!!!
Cheers dear will do, and you looking smashing in those target bought heels.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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