Do as I say, not as I do.

[Windston]

Hi guys,

So a pretty bizarre series of events have unfolded and I am going to try to explain what happened and how ridiculous it is.

A friend of mine has moved from NSW to QLD. He forgot to renew his license for QLD in the 3 month period , so technically he isn't a license holder anymore until Weapons licensing processes his application.

Now, the NSW copper told him that while he waits for his license, he can store his firearms in my safe.
QLD cops told him that he in fact CANNOT store them in my safe. It has to be either a dealer, or police station. They were hounding him, calling him every few minutes to find out exactly where the guns were, and exactly how far away they were from my safe.

I get a call from my local cop shop asking if I have his guns, and if they are in my safe. They asked for my name and DOB, but no license number? They then said to sit tight as they had some paperwork to do, but they will be around to pick them up in a few days. Fair enough.

This all happened a month ago! I still have the guns locked up in my safe, but I haven't received any other contact from the cops regarding the firearms.

So I have a safe full of guns, perfectly stored with action locks and all, that the cops were meant to take a month ago. I'm hoping that they dont try anything funny, like pinning me for possession of unregistered firearms or something!

The rules are so bloody strict that even the cops have a hard time policing it! It is pretty hypocritical demand us to follow the rules to the letter, when they seem to struggle to themselves. As license holders, im nearly sure we wouldn't get a month worth of slack!

Anyway, time will tell.

Dan

[bladeracer]

Hi guys,

So a pretty bizarre series of events have unfolded and I am going to try to explain what happened and how ridiculous it is.

A friend of mine has moved from NSW to QLD. He forgot to renew his license for QLD in the 3 month period , so technically he isn't a license holder anymore until Weapons licensing processes his application.

Now, the NSW copper told him that while he waits for his license, he can store his firearms in my safe.
QLD cops told him that he in fact CANNOT store them in my safe. It has to be either a dealer, or police station. They were hounding him, calling him every few minutes to find out exactly where the guns were, and exactly how far away they were from my safe.

I get a call from my local cop shop asking if I have his guns, and if they are in my safe. They asked for my name and DOB, but no license number? They then said to sit tight as they had some paperwork to do, but they will be around to pick them up in a few days. Fair enough.

This all happened a month ago! I still have the guns locked up in my safe, but I haven't received any other contact from the cops regarding the firearms.

So I have a safe full of guns, perfectly stored with action locks and all, that the cops were meant to take a month ago. I'm hoping that they dont try anything funny, like pinning me for possession of unregistered firearms or something!

The rules are so bloody strict that even the cops have a hard time policing it! It is pretty hypocritical demand us to follow the rules to the letter, when they seem to struggle to themselves. As license holders, im nearly sure we wouldn't get a month worth of slack!

Anyway, time will tell.

Dan

Has he sorted out his licence at all during this period?
You could probably take them to your dealer and have them transferred to your licence, if your mate will pay for the PtA's to protect his firearms. At least you'll know that they're registered.

[Windston]

Yeh he submitted his license about 2 weeks ago. The dealer wanted about 10$/week to store them, and with 7 guns, that gets pretty pricey by the time that WLB gets the license processed and to him, so the cops were apparently going to hold them free of charge. The benefit of the cops holding them is that he also doesnt have to pay for the PTA to get them to me, and them back off me when he gets his license which would also be pretty pricey! We just didn't expect them to take so long to get them from me.

[bladeracer]

Yeh he submitted his license about 2 weeks ago. The dealer wanted about 10$/week to store them, and with 7 guns, that gets pretty pricey by the time that WLB gets the license processed and to him, so the cops were apparently going to hold them free of charge. The benefit of the cops holding them is that he also doesnt have to pay for the PTA to get them to me, and them back off me when he gets his license which would also be pretty pricey! We just didn't expect them to take so long to get them from me.

The downside of the cops holding them is that they might disappear before you go to pick them up.

[Member-Deleted]

The downside of the cops holding them is that they might disappear before you go to pick them up.

at the very least there's an even money chance they come back scratched or damaged in some way

[Wombat]

The downside of the cops holding them is that they might disappear before you go to pick them up.

at the very least there's an even money chance they come back scratched or damaged in some way

I'd say odds on. Phar Lap type odds.

[zhuk]

Yeh he submitted his license about 2 weeks ago. The dealer wanted about 10$/week to store them, and with 7 guns, that gets pretty pricey by the time that WLB gets the license processed and to him, so the cops were apparently going to hold them free of charge. The benefit of the cops holding them is that he also doesnt have to pay for the PTA to get them to me, and them back off me when he gets his license which would also be pretty pricey! We just didn't expect them to take so long to get them from me.

The downside of the cops holding them is that they might disappear before you go to pick them up.

Or, a bit worse for wear.

[Windston]

So you blokes are saying that even if we give them to them in bags, they will still be rough with them? If thats the case its pretty disgusting. I dont think they would like it if I scratched their cars! Why are we treated like this?

[RoginaJack]

Could he give you a letter of authority to storing said firearms in you safe for cleaning purposes and adjusting the scope's calibrations etc...?

[Wombat]

So you blokes are saying that even if we give them to them in bags, they will still be rough with them? If thats the case its pretty disgusting. I dont think they would like it if I scratched their cars! Why are we treated like this?

It's not that it would be deliberate damage, just that they would not respect them the way you or the owner would. If they stayed in any bags you would get rust problems, but I'd bet they would be removed from whatever you put them in to check numbers anyway.
Ever seen how they transport stock from shops where the license has been suspended or cancelled? Hundreds of guns stacked like logs in the back of a truck........

[tom604]

if they do come to pick them up take photos of them as they take them so if they are scratched your mate can claim on insurance

[trekin]

Is his NSW licence still current?

[No1_49er]

Unfortunately, section 33 of the Queensland Weapons Act pretty much closes all the doors that might have been available 33(4).
OP says that 1) the 3 months has gone 33(3a), 2) he's already started the application process, 3) he didn't inform the Commissioner 33(1).
Only possible retreat, if his NSW Licence is still current, he move the firearms back to a safe (sorry for the pun) haven in NSW. However, the NSW Licence might, as a technicality, be revoked as he is now known to be a resident of Queensland.
Lots of possible twists and turns.

[Windston]

Is his NSW licence still current?

Should be yeh. Does that change things?

[No1_49er]

Read, and interpret.
QLD Weapons Act, section 33.

33 Interstate residents moving to Queensland

(1) This section applies if a resident of another State who is the holder of a licence under the law of the other State authorising possession of a category A, B, C, D or H weapon or a category M crossbow gives written notice to the commissioner of the person’s intention to reside permanently in Queensland.
(2) The person’s licence is taken to be the corresponding licence under this Act in force for the period mentioned in subsection (3) or until the day the person’s application for a licence under this Act is approved or rejected, whichever is the earlier.
(3) The period is—
(a) for a licence authorising possession of a category A or B weapon or a category M crossbow—3 months; and
(b) for a licence authorising possession of a category C, D or H weapon—7 days.
(4) The period mentioned in subsection (3) starts on the day the person notifies the commissioner of the person’s intention to reside permanently in Queensland.
(5) If the holder of a licence authorising possession of a category C, D or H weapon notifies the commissioner and makes application for a licence under this Act within the time allowed under subsection (3)(b), the person does not contravene section 50 while the person’s application is being decided merely because the 7 day period has passed.
(6) In this section—
corresponding licence, to a licence held under the law of another State, means—
(a) a licence under this Act declared under a regulation to be a corresponding licence; or
(b) if no regulation is made under paragraph (a) or the regulation makes insufficient provision—a licence under this Act that most closely corresponds to the other licence.

[trekin]

Is his NSW licence still current?

Should be yeh. Does that change things?

It ould be why WLB have not collected the firearms yet. If his NSW licence is still current (and he should check with FAR that it still is), than he is still legally licenced and the firearms are still registered in NSW and can be stored in the safe of an appopratly licenced person. The 3 month period starts when he notifies the Commissioner i.e. when he makes application to change his licence from NSW to QLD, unless they can prove he took up perament residency earlier (when did he change drivers licence, address with AEC/QEC etc).

[trekin]

Unfortunately, section 33 of the Queensland Weapons Act pretty much closes all the doors that might have been available 33(4).
OP says that 1) the 3 months has gone 33(3a), 2) he's already started the application process, 3) he didn't inform the Commissioner 33(1).
Only possible retreat, if his NSW Licence is still current, he move the firearms back to a safe (sorry for the pun) haven in NSW. However, the NSW Licence might, as a technicality, be revoked as he is now known to be a resident of Queensland.
Lots of possible twists and turns.

"(4) The period mentioned in subsection (3) starts on the day the person notifies the commissioner of the person’s intention to reside permanently in Queensland." The 3 months start from when an application to change licence from an other State to QLD is made to WLB. Notifying the AO is notifying the Commissioner. They (WLB) would have to prove his intention to peranemtly reside here prior to that date.

[Windston]

Read, and interpret.
QLD Weapons Act, section 33.

33 Interstate residents moving to Queensland

(1) This section applies if a resident of another State who is the holder of a licence under the law of the other State authorising possession of a category A, B, C, D or H weapon or a category M crossbow gives written notice to the commissioner of the person’s intention to reside permanently in Queensland.
(2) The person’s licence is taken to be the corresponding licence under this Act in force for the period mentioned in subsection (3) or until the day the person’s application for a licence under this Act is approved or rejected, whichever is the earlier.
(3) The period is—
(a) for a licence authorising possession of a category A or B weapon or a category M crossbow—3 months; and
(b) for a licence authorising possession of a category C, D or H weapon—7 days.
(4) The period mentioned in subsection (3) starts on the day the person notifies the commissioner of the person’s intention to reside permanently in Queensland.
(5) If the holder of a licence authorising possession of a category C, D or H weapon notifies the commissioner and makes application for a licence under this Act within the time allowed under subsection (3)(b), the person does not contravene section 50 while the person’s application is being decided merely because the 7 day period has passed.
(6) In this section—
corresponding licence, to a licence held under the law of another State, means—
(a) a licence under this Act declared under a regulation to be a corresponding licence; or
(b) if no regulation is made under paragraph (a) or the regulation makes insufficient provision—a licence under this Act that most closely corresponds to the other licence.

So from what I understand, because he didnt lodge his new license application in the 3 month time frame from when he first started residing in QLD, he has to do another safety test (which he has) before applying for his QLD licence (which he has). However because he didnt submit the application within 3 month timeframe, his interstate licence becomes invalid and therefore he is no longer a licence holder.

Your interstate licence will be mutually recognised and you can maintain possession of your firearms until a decision is made on your application as long as the interstate licence remains current and you have lodged an application for a new licence within the above timeframes.

Am I interpreting that correctly?

[Windston]

Is his NSW licence still current?

Should be yeh. Does that change things?

It ould be why WLB have not collected the firearms yet. If his NSW licence is still current (and he should check with FAR that it still is), than he is still legally licenced and the firearms are still registered in NSW and can be stored in the safe of an appopratly licenced person.

That could be why the NSW police told him that he could store them with me, because his NSW licence is still valid. Does that mean that QPS and WLB are incorrect in trying to seize the firearms from my safe?

Sorry for all the questions but this is just making my head spin!

[bladeracer]

Is his NSW licence still current?

Should be yeh. Does that change things?

It ould be why WLB have not collected the firearms yet. If his NSW licence is still current (and he should check with FAR that it still is), than he is still legally licenced and the firearms are still registered in NSW and can be stored in the safe of an appopratly licenced person.

That could be why the NSW police told him that he could store them with me, because his NSW licence is still valid. Does that mean that QPS and WLB are incorrect in trying to seize the firearms from my safe?

Sorry for all the questions but this is just making my head spin!

As long as he still has a licence for them, even in another state (except WA) then the firearms are still registered. Some states don't allow you to have permanent storage out of state though, you can't list a Victorian address as your storage address if you aren't resident in Victoria. While he has a NSW licence he might be best to keep his firearms secured within NSW - you'd have to check the laws about that.
The potential catch is if NSW decides he is now a Qld resident and cancels his licence, but I can't recall hearing of that ever happening. I would think his NSW licence would remain valid until he is issued a Qld licence to replace it.

[Member-Deleted]

WLB in QLD have some issues, when I moved here from the NT 9 years ago, I took my firearms to the local police station for identification verification and filled out the paperwork for a QLD license, telling the copper I was in the process of moving and wanted to get in so it was finalised before I completed the move and that I had already installed a compliant safe.

The local copper was happy with this as my NT license was still current, I took the firearms home, after a couple of weeks of not hearing anything, I contact WLB to enquire as to where the process was at, the female officer I spoke to was fairly abrupt, she asked me where the firearms were located, when I told her, she very abruptly and rudely informed me the should be surrendered to the police until the license was issued.

Given her attitude, I asked her as to what part of the law stated I had to do this and that as I still had a current NT license, the firearms were registered, I had not completed the move, therefore I had every right to have the firearms in my possession, she went a bit quiet, she was unable to state any law that required me to hand the firearms in, I suggested if the licensed was processed in a reasonable time, there would not be any issue, I subsequently received the license within about 4 days of that call.

[bladeracer]

WLB in QLD have some issues, when I moved here from the NT 9 years ago, I took my firearms to the local police station for identification verification and filled out the paperwork for a QLD license, telling the copper I was in the process of moving and wanted to get in so it was finalised before I completed the move and that I had already installed a compliant safe.

The local copper was happy with this as my NT license was still current, I took the firearms home, after a couple of weeks of not hearing anything, I contact WLB to enquire as to where the process was at, the female officer I spoke to was fairly abrupt, she asked me where the firearms were located, when I told her, she very abruptly and rudely informed me the should be surrendered to the police until the license was issued.

Given her attitude, I asked her as to what part of the law stated I had to do this and that as I still had a current NT license, the firearms were registered, I had not completed the move, therefore I had every right to have the firearms in my possession, she went a bit quiet, she was unable to state any law that required me to hand the firearms in, I suggested if the licensed was processed in a reasonable time, there would not be any issue, I subsequently received the license within about 4 days of that call.

WA doesn't recognise interstate registration. Even if your firearms are licenced in your home state you have to have them temporarily registered in WA while you are there. When the Temporary permit expires your firearms are considered unregistered, it is an offence to possess them, and you are required to hand them in for destruction or in some other way remove them from the state. I had Beaton Firearms send my rifles back to my dealer here in Victoria.

[Member-Deleted]

WA doesn't recognise interstate registration. Even if your firearms are licenced in your home state you have to have them temporarily registered in WA while you are there. When the Temporary permit expires your firearms are considered unregistered, it is an offence to possess them, and you are required to hand them in for destruction or in some other way remove them from the state. I had Beaton Firearms send my rifles back to my dealer here in Victoria.

WA have some very strange laws, then again the rest of the countries firearms laws are not much better, the problem is many of the provisions are so placed as a result of political posturing and vote grabbing, rather than for the purpose of practically enhancing public safety, they are based more on sound good, rather than on actual facts and statistics.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Mate that's not just firearms, I reckon it's everything they do, or all laws they make

[trekin]

WLB in QLD have some issues, when I moved here from the NT 9 years ago, I took my firearms to the local police station for identification verification and filled out the paperwork for a QLD license, telling the copper I was in the process of moving and wanted to get in so it was finalised before I completed the move and that I had already installed a compliant safe.

The local copper was happy with this as my NT license was still current, I took the firearms home, after a couple of weeks of not hearing anything, I contact WLB to enquire as to where the process was at, the female officer I spoke to was fairly abrupt, she asked me where the firearms were located, when I told her, she very abruptly and rudely informed me the should be surrendered to the police until the license was issued.

Given her attitude, I asked her as to what part of the law stated I had to do this and that as I still had a current NT license, the firearms were registered, I had not completed the move, therefore I had every right to have the firearms in my possession, she went a bit quiet, she was unable to state any law that required me to hand the firearms in, I suggested if the licensed was processed in a reasonable time, there would not be any issue, I subsequently received the license within about 4 days of that call.

Her name wasn't Debbie, by any chance was it?

[Member-Deleted]

WLB in QLD have some issues, when I moved here from the NT 9 years ago, I took my firearms to the local police station for identification verification and filled out the paperwork for a QLD license, telling the copper I was in the process of moving and wanted to get in so it was finalised before I completed the move and that I had already installed a compliant safe.

The local copper was happy with this as my NT license was still current, I took the firearms home, after a couple of weeks of not hearing anything, I contact WLB to enquire as to where the process was at, the female officer I spoke to was fairly abrupt, she asked me where the firearms were located, when I told her, she very abruptly and rudely informed me the should be surrendered to the police until the license was issued.

Given her attitude, I asked her as to what part of the law stated I had to do this and that as I still had a current NT license, the firearms were registered, I had not completed the move, therefore I had every right to have the firearms in my possession, she went a bit quiet, she was unable to state any law that required me to hand the firearms in, I suggested if the licensed was processed in a reasonable time, there would not be any issue, I subsequently received the license within about 4 days of that call.

Her name wasn't Debbie, by any chance was it?

Don't know what here name was, however she was pretty abrupt and rude, although her dominant belligerent attitude changed when she realised I knew my subject matter, I have met many government employees like her over the years, they substitute lack of knowledge of the laws they work under with bluff, which leaves them no where to go when the bluff is called.

I used to lecture in practical interpretation of statutes for regulatory personnel, some of the attitudes leave a lot to be desired, the old, if in doubt write it out, and with some, being a naturally miserable prick meant they tried as hard as possible to inflict their attitude on everyone else, including colleagues, my main advice was, know the laws that you enforce, understand the elements of the offence in question, and if unsure, don't be to proud to admit it and go do the necessary research.