Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by TassieTiger » 26 Nov 2018, 9:15 pm

We only have fallow down here - and not huge ones...
The regs advise :
using a minimum legal firearm calibre of not less than 6mm, which is capable of delivering a projectile having kinetic energy of 1350 joules at a distance of 100 metres from the rifle. It is suggested a calibre .243 or greater be used...
I think 270 minimum for sambar in Vic.

I know they have to draw a line but a 300win in the rump vs a 233 in the brain...and...it’s not black and white.
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by PoorShot300 » 26 Nov 2018, 11:37 pm

Yeah, as noted i wasn't sure of it being Tassie, and Vic was going to be my other go-to. Obviously the Irish in me made the choice on that one... lol..

In other news, I have just hit the button on the Lee Breech Lock S/Stage hand loading kit, a quick trim die to do on the press, and a 4x bullet die set. PTA in tomorrow, and hopefully by weeks end, components & rifle ordered.

If the thread ends here, my appreciation & thanks to those who read &/or contributed, this is what keeps me, and I'm sure others, in coming back. The variety of advice re: projies, powders & primers has given me a wide enough base to begin my foray without too much overload for a newbie.

I'd like to keep this going if any have say, hints/tips, perhaps when is appropriate to anneal cases, how often you full size, do you usually time annealing & full body size at the same time, and what do you look for etc. , i'd be only too happy to read it, along with the specific interest classifications in the menu.

Overloading etc is not in my list of interest for safety reasons, even though I'm aware others have done it, I'm in no hurry to try. Same as chasing speeds, as I don't have a chrony, my focus will be with load/impact sweet spots for some time i guess, and without the chrony the numbers wont mean as much as the balanced load with what I have on hand at the time.

Gypsy
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by bladeracer » 27 Nov 2018, 12:47 pm

TassieTiger wrote:Correct if wrong but 243 def isn’t either and for some species 6.5 is illegal....


.243 is legal for the smaller breeds, not the big three. 6.5mm is in the same boat - the bigger deer require .270 or bigger.
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by bladeracer » 27 Nov 2018, 12:58 pm

PoorShot300 wrote:Overloading etc is not in my list of interest for safety reasons, even though I'm aware others have done it, I'm in no hurry to try. Same as chasing speeds, as I don't have a chrony, my focus will be with load/impact sweet spots for some time i guess, and without the chrony the numbers wont mean as much as the balanced load with what I have on hand at the time.

Gypsy


I load for a lot of cartridges. The only one that I have any need to even load near factory levels is the .204, it just seems to get more accurate the harder you push it. I literally cannot fit any more powder in the case as it is heaped above the case mouth, but it doesn't offer any pressure signs despite being beyond ADI listed max.

Everything else I load either for accuracy or for pleasure. Accuracy is usually found somewhere short of hot loads. The pleasure of shooting a lot of ammo in a session with minimal noise, recoil or cost is usually found well below factory levels.

When you do your load development inspect the primers, use a loupe if you prefer. For me there tends to be a point at which they no longer look like freshly-seated primers. I start to see the curved outer edge of the primer just slightly begin to flatten out This is generally still well short of factory pressure though. Once you start pushing past factory levels of pressure you need to be measuring the case head rather than reading anything useful from the primer.
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by PoorShot300 » 27 Nov 2018, 8:08 pm

No worries Blade, I'll keep those pressure indicators in mind.
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by PoorShot300 » 05 Dec 2018, 9:55 am

Update;... the Lee Challenger kit showed up today, along with 300+ once fired ADI cases. So now have all the ingredients, but no annealer or tumbler as yet.

What do you lot use to anneal with? I've seen a few 'projects' on Y-tube, but what economical annealers are being used, and what cost? Where are you buying them from?

Rifle now paid for and awaiting delivery. Got caught up in a bait-&-switch as the Varmint laminate is no longer available, so had to pony up another $150 to get the Thumbhole version. Not happy bout that, so it better be a shooter..

Cheers
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by TassieTiger » 05 Dec 2018, 1:40 pm

PoorShot300 wrote:Update;... the Lee Challenger kit showed up today, along with 300+ once fired ADI cases. So now have all the ingredients, but no annealer or tumbler as yet.

What do you lot use to anneal with? I've seen a few 'projects' on Y-tube, but what economical annealers are being used, and what cost? Where are you buying them from?

Rifle now paid for and awaiting delivery. Got caught up in a bait-&-switch as the Varmint laminate is no longer available, so had to pony up another $150 to get the Thumbhole version. Not happy bout that, so it better be a shooter..

Cheers


Just a suggestion and my opinion based on limited experience - maybe give the “annealing” step a miss for a while? I know many shooters who have never taken it on - it can be time consuming and difficult to get right without proper experience/ gear.

You’ll still get quite a number of shots out of your brass, especially in the smaller caliber.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by bladeracer » 05 Dec 2018, 1:49 pm

PoorShot300 wrote:Update;... the Lee Challenger kit showed up today, along with 300+ once fired ADI cases. So now have all the ingredients, but no annealer or tumbler as yet.

What do you lot use to anneal with? I've seen a few 'projects' on Y-tube, but what economical annealers are being used, and what cost? Where are you buying them from?

Rifle now paid for and awaiting delivery. Got caught up in a bait-&-switch as the Varmint laminate is no longer available, so had to pony up another $150 to get the Thumbhole version. Not happy bout that, so it better be a shooter..

Cheers


Annealing and tumbling?
I do neither. Tumbling makes the brass shiny, I don't need that. Keep it clean and you won't need to clean it, I never have.
Annealing is something you do with expensive brass to prolong the life, really not required on readily-available brass.
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by PoorShot300 » 05 Dec 2018, 2:20 pm

Hmmm, i keep reading once fired will need to be annealed as it's fire formed in an AR-15 (or military equivalent) chamber, or are you suggesting I just do a full length resize and go from there? I have read of shooters not worrying about annealing, but that's usually for brass only fired in their own rifle.

BR?... you don't even clean the burnt powder out of your cases & primer pockets?
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by bladeracer » 05 Dec 2018, 2:39 pm

PoorShot300 wrote:Hmmm, i keep reading once fired will need to be annealed as it's fire formed in an AR-15 (or military equivalent) chamber, or are you suggesting I just do a full length resize and go from there? I have read of shooters not worrying about annealing, but that's usually for brass only fired in their own rifle.

BR?... you don't even clean the burnt powder out of your cases & primer pockets?


You don't need to anneal once-fired brass, just FLS or neck-size them if they chamber fine in your rifle.
Some top-tier competition shooters anneal their brass every load, not because it requires it, just to have consistent neck tension.
Annealing softens the case neck before it hardens and splits. Depending on your loads and firearm, this might be needed after two firings, or thirty firings of the case. If it's at two firings you might spend the money on simply buying more brass, load them twice and bin them than spending the money on an annealing setup to anneal them every second shot. If they're lasting ten firings I'd just replace the brass anyway.

If you are forming cases from something else that is very different, annealing helps the forming process without tearing or buckling the case.

I can't see any value at all in cleaning the inside of the cases. Primer pockets rarely get dirty in my experience, although possibly reaming the pockets, as I do with all my new brass, makes the surface smoother so the crud doesn't stick?
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by bladeracer » 05 Dec 2018, 2:46 pm

PoorShot300 wrote:Hmmm, i keep reading once fired will need to be annealed as it's fire formed in an AR-15 (or military equivalent) chamber, or are you suggesting I just do a full length resize and go from there?


Once-fired brass could come from any number of firearms. The ideal is to buy privately from somebody that has fired the same brand in the same rifle - spotlighters are good for bulk .204, .223, .243, etc if they're burning up factory ammo. I picked up a lot of Hornady .204 brass from a local spotlighter here.

Commercial once-fired military brass - 5.56, 7.62, 9mm, .50BMG, and such - is most likely to have come from military chambers, but not always, lots of people shoot military ammo in their civilian rifles. If it won't chamber comfortably in your rifle them FLS it, bumping the shoulder back just enough to allow it to chamber, and start fresh. If it chambers fine you can just neck-size it. One thing I'd recommend avoiding with military once-fired is crimped primer pockets, what an unnecessary pain in the butt they are. And some commercial manufacturers run off their civilian chamberings on the same machinery as their milspec stuff, so they get crimped as well - like Federal .223Rem.
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by PoorShot300 » 05 Dec 2018, 3:33 pm

I can't say definitively they were from the one rifle, it was an online purchase, and the seller just said the rounds went through an AR-15 so it might not have even been military...

Guess I'm good to go and just FLS them all, then weight batch them for refilling. Gives me a chance to get the press set up and the cases ready while waiting for the rifle to arrive.
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by bladeracer » 05 Dec 2018, 4:20 pm

PoorShot300 wrote:I can't say definitively they were from the one rifle, it was an online purchase, and the seller just said the rounds went through an AR-15 so it might not have even been military...

Guess I'm good to go and just FLS them all, then weight batch them for refilling. Gives me a chance to get the press set up and the cases ready while waiting for the rifle to arrive.


If they went through a civilian AR15 then most likely a contract shooter using commercial brass.

Don't bother weight batching brass, complete waste of effort. The only way to have consistent volume is to measure their volume. If you are shooting 1000m competitions you may want to, otherwise don't bother. Lots of people don't even bother ensuring their brass is all the same brand.

I would wait until you have the rifle before sizing your brass, unless you're happy to build them to factory spec. To ensure they'll work in your rifle you basically have to size them down to the minimum specs if you don't have the rifle to work with.
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by PoorShot300 » 05 Dec 2018, 4:30 pm

It's the old "are we there yet?" conundrum...in a hurry 'slowly'...guess I should wait and see if they chamber OK, save myself some work that may not be required. Saying that though, if they have been through various rifles, and I DON'T FLS them, I won't know where the true accuracy lays, or which is the better recipe...at least FLS will put them on a semi even keel other than volume.

A bigger problem is where I will be able to set it all up...real estate is a rare thing around here...rofl.
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by bladeracer » 05 Dec 2018, 4:51 pm

PoorShot300 wrote:It's the old "are we there yet?" conundrum...in a hurry 'slowly'...guess I should wait and see if they chamber OK, save myself some work that may not be required. Saying that though, if they have been through various rifles, and I DON'T FLS them, I won't know where the true accuracy lays, or which is the better recipe...at least FLS will put them on a semi even keel other than volume.

A bigger problem is where I will be able to set it all up...real estate is a rare thing around here...rofl.


Not really. You'll be in the same position as somebody who buys factory ammo, or new brass, and then reloads the fire-formed brass. Some people prefer to FLS every time just so their brass is as consistent as possible for every shot. I prefer to neck-size only once I've fire-formed them to my chambers.

I've found that FLSing gives higher velocities due to the reduced case volume, but you need to trim the brass more regularly than neck-sizing.
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by PoorShot300 » 05 Dec 2018, 6:07 pm

Thinking I'll FLS them first, then reform in my chamber and use the results from the second firing (3rd actually) to determine my load recipe and just neck size till chambering/loading gets difficult.

Have to get a few more brands/weights of projies & powder to really test it out though.

Looks like I found out why the poor service at my LGS...it's up for sale if anyone's interested?
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by bladeracer » 05 Dec 2018, 6:27 pm

PoorShot300 wrote:Thinking I'll FLS them first, then reform in my chamber and use the results from the second firing (3rd actually) to determine my load recipe and just neck size till chambering/loading gets difficult.

Have to get a few more brands/weights of projies & powder to really test it out though.

Looks like I found out why the poor service at my LGS...it's up for sale if anyone's interested?


I've got heaps of different bullets and powders for every caliber I shoot, I love experimenting. I particularly like the 80gn ELDM in my Ruger American.

No money in it. My dealer closed shop in September, had a "50% off everything in store" sale and now he's out in the sunshine earning money and happy as Larry.
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by PoorShot300 » 05 Dec 2018, 6:35 pm

My LGS had a niche they were/are filling... "reloads". They have stock and I've never been there without there being other's in store (and buying), I guess he's just lookin to shoot more & work less, like I said, I'd put him at mid 60's, his wife seems late 50's at a guess. Don't imagine he does much smithy work though...

Your Ruger's 1:8 or 1:9 to handle those 80gn pills?
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by bladeracer » 05 Dec 2018, 7:10 pm

PoorShot300 wrote:My LGS had a niche they were/are filling... "reloads". They have stock and I've never been there without there being other's in store (and buying), I guess he's just lookin to shoot more & work less, like I said, I'd put him at mid 60's, his wife seems late 50's at a guess. Don't imagine he does much smithy work though...

Your Ruger's 1:8 or 1:9 to handle those 80gn pills?


Ruger Americans are 8"-twist in .223Rem.

I hate the "1:8" nomenclature :-)
To me, 1:8 reads as one twist in eight twists, or one-inch in eight-inches.
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Re: Lee (open to others also) reloaders please assist?

Post by PoorShot300 » 05 Dec 2018, 7:16 pm

I know right? Like with like and all.
Well, that's it for me today, got's to hit the books now and see if i can learn something new...
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