Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need it

Game hunting and large prey. Deer stalking, hunting with hounds. Boar, pigs etc., large prey, culling, hunting large feral animals.

Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Stix » 14 Dec 2018, 8:27 pm

TassieTiger wrote:
Stix wrote:
For those unaware Its worth noting that many rifles the extractor only picks the round up when the bolt is fully closed/on the down stroke if you get me....

Ive been in the scenario where game is seen & a round chambered but leave bolt up to be ready...
Game disappears then some banter/or game is shot & another round chambered with bolt up again, bit of chit chat/banter, forget a round has been pushed down the chamber...
A complacent "check" is done by sliding bolt back & forth without closing the bolt, inadvertantly leaving a live one in the chamber that is not realised until another round needs chambering--& this could be too late...

This scenario is a great example of the need to be muzzle aware--particularly if rifle changes hands after a complacent check & someone goes to collect the fur.

I always work the complete cycle of the bolt to ensure no round is left in the chamber...particularly spotlighting when its hard to glance down the chamber.


I ve been in this exact scenario recently and without fully understanding what you have described above - I put it down to dumb operator error...when I finally realised wtf was going on. In my case I loaded 4 into a mag instead of 3 - fired 3 and then chambered no 4 inadvertently - then Started chatting about the grouping and writing shot details down and then decided to pull bolt to let air flow. Only bolt came out without the bullet...and because I’d been loading 3’s all day - completely forgot about one in the chamber. Scary how easy that was to happen...we were never in any danger but was an eye opener...


Tassie...hope i dont get attacked here for saying this & shouldn't speak for other people...but many of us have found a round in the chamber when we didnt think there was one in there...many more of us than will ever admit..i have...!!..i once heard the stats are that 9/10 'accidental shootings' happen from unloaded firearms...(tell that to a licenced gun owner that wants to go hunting with you, & if you have to explain it to them, dont ever go hunting with them...!!)...
It is ultimately muzzle awareness that will save you...there are other factors in being aware too like i find i know "my" rifles sound intimately, but you can "hear" if someone has a round chambered if that makes sense because mentally you know the sound cycle....

Sometimes at the range i find myself thinking 'ah that guy is shooting 4 shot groups' without even realising im aware of him...other times i think 'ah that wanker is trying to spit all his rifling into the mound cos hes just shot 25 hot rounds out of his 243 in 18 seconds... :lol: :lol:

Its good to admit mistakes i rekon...& also imagine the aftermath if the worst were to happen...that way it helps to keep us on our toes...depending on circumstance, realising a mistake can obviously be a bad thing, but can also be a good sign that you have an awareness about you/a back-up secondary safety check if you will.
Mine is as i think others have mentioned regular random chamber checks along with continual muzzle awareness...

I also think its important to encourage people to not feel stupid about having safety issues pointed out to them...absolutely no point having someone walking around with a gun feeling stupid...!! (i mean your average good on the ball safety orientated shooter--not the wanker cowboys that are out for a self indulgent testosterone overload...!!). Never act the superior by making a fellow shooter feel stupid about a mistake, just mention it quietly & give encouragement...we need people comfortable around firearms...not nervous from being in fear of being made a public fool... :thumbsup:
:drinks:
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by MJW380 » 14 Dec 2018, 8:48 pm

Went spotlighting with a couple of mates one night, one driving and one in the back of ute with myself taking turns working the spottie/on the rifle. Long story short, got back to camp, the 3 of us got out of vehicle, walking in along next to each other and for whatever reason old mate pulls the trigger on his rifle “Boom” Que myself and my mate giving it to the clown. I’m always super conscious of safety, just a habit I have that even after I take a shot, then clear the empty, I take the mag out and work the bolt and dry fire, then put loaded mag back in. I even repeat running the bolt without mag in occasionally just to reassure myself. I’ve always expected that other people were as safety conscious as I was, but obviously not. Needless to say old mate hasn’t been since.
MJW380
Private
Private
 
Posts: 94
New South Wales

Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bladeracer » 14 Dec 2018, 8:49 pm

Stix wrote:Tassie...hope i dont get attacked here for saying this & shouldn't speak for other people...but many of us have found a round in the chamber when we didnt think there was one in there...many more of us than will ever admit..i have...!!


I've had it once, just a few months ago with the Henry .22. Shot the mag tube dry, cycled the action several times to be sure, and I'm certain I remembered seeing the orange follower to confirm it was dry. Came back to the office, cycled it again before putting it in the safe, and a live round flicked out!
And I still have no bloody idea how it was possible.
Practice Strict Gun Control - Precision Counts!
User avatar
bladeracer
Field Marshal
Field Marshal
 
Posts: 12655
Victoria

Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Member-Deleted » 14 Dec 2018, 9:47 pm

It doesn't matter how many angles you look at this subject in my opinion and should be the opinion of all '' just don't put a bullet into the chamber until needed''
Unfortunately not all agree with that and don't practice it
I spoke with a aircon salesman the other day about this very subject and his cousin and brother were shooting years back with an old ''Cooee'' single shot 22
having turns at shooting now the old 22 would cock itself when the bolt was closed but could be released by gripping the knob on the end at the back of the firing pin
then pull the trigger and slowly ease the pin forward till it comes to rest although the pin was now sitting on the bullet which wasn't much of a problem
Then one brother wanted his turn to shoot so with pin safe the brother handed it to the other brother but he wanted it cleared as he was using hollow points and not solids like his sibling so brother number one cleared by dry cycling the bolt closed the bolt without easing the pin forward and handed the gun to the other fella
in doing so he pulled the trigger and shot his brother in the hip they found out later that the old ejection bar that is a single piece separate from the bolt that catches
the shell from the bottom had broken in half ''which I have seen several times in my life'' and failed to eject the live solid when dry cycled
So there's a very good reason not to carry a bullet in the chamber right there
Member-Deleted
 

Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Stix » 14 Dec 2018, 10:31 pm

MJW380 wrote:Went spotlighting with a couple of mates one night, one driving and one in the back of ute with myself taking turns working the spottie/on the rifle. Long story short, got back to camp, the 3 of us got out of vehicle, walking in along next to each other and for whatever reason old mate pulls the trigger on his rifle “Boom” Que myself and my mate giving it to the clown. I’m always super conscious of safety, just a habit I have that even after I take a shot, then clear the empty, I take the mag out and work the bolt and dry fire, then put loaded mag back in. I even repeat running the bolt without mag in occasionally just to reassure myself. I’ve always expected that other people were as safety conscious as I was, but obviously not. Needless to say old mate hasn’t been since.


Wow...very lucky by the sound of it MJW.

When it comes to expectations with guns...hmmm...
To play the devils advocate with your situation above MJW, i feel that gun safety is everyones business, so while old mate pulled the trigger, neither 2 of you guys asked him if the rifle was safe (I guessing thats a fair assumption or it wouldnt have happened :unknown: )...not having a crack at you mate :drinks: , but you're all responsible/all three of you have demonstrated a level of complacency that resulted in a discharge if you see that perspective... :thumbsup:
Again, not having a crack...just maybe giving us all a reminder of how one brief moment can change lives...(shudder)

No doubt the guy who did it feels like a twat...maybe he is a twat, i dont know...but if he's a guy who genuinely means well, maybe you could get him back out with you & give him another go... :unknown: as i said, culpability there is not all his... :unknown: :thumbsup:

Always a good idea to be audible with others...go along the lines of what Bigfella here says he does...similar to me if ive got someone with me...

If we are audible to check each other then these incidents dont happen, or shouldnt... :thumbsup:
:drinks:
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Stix » 14 Dec 2018, 10:33 pm

The rules in my car are the person behind the rifle audibly volunteers the chamber empty & makes it clear they physically check too...& thats after every encounter/near encounter/car stop/bladder emptying stop/can swap-out/munchies grab/gutting session stop etc...if they are a bit too slow to it, someone else asks & no one is offended, or accidentally shot.

I always make it known im empty every stop if in someone elses car...!

Once i didnt volunteer the rifle safe on purpose when spotlighting in my car & i gave my shooting partner (a young lad) a bit of semi-funny but serious lip for not pulling me up on it...!!
I told him dont be shy because the gun goes off its final...every now & then id randomly ask him if i had one in the chamber to keep him on his toes & by the end of the night he was on the ball. :thumbsup: ..he feels comfortable in doing it now with me which is a good thing. :thumbsup:

I like keeping keen young learning guys on the ball like that while spotlighting..its dark so they cant see & have to rely on other senses to be aware....they seem to soon get a sense of awareness of the state of the rifle...after a while ill ask them where the bitumen road is, or if the farm house is behind where they/or me are about to take a shot...that usually pulls the genuine guys up a bit & makes them realise there is much more to spotlighting than just hoot'n n toot'n...after just a couple of trips out it starts to become second nature to them. :clap:
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
Stix
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3675
South Australia

Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by bigfellascott » 15 Dec 2018, 7:10 am

Stix wrote:The rules in my car are the person behind the rifle audibly volunteers the chamber empty & makes it clear they physically check too...& thats after every encounter/near encounter/car stop/bladder emptying stop/can swap-out/munchies grab/gutting session stop etc...if they are a bit too slow to it, someone else asks & no one is offended, or accidentally shot.

I always make it known im empty every stop if in someone elses car...!

Once i didnt volunteer the rifle safe on purpose when spotlighting in my car & i gave my shooting partner (a young lad) a bit of semi-funny but serious lip for not pulling me up on it...!!
I told him dont be shy because the gun goes off its final...every now & then id randomly ask him if i had one in the chamber to keep him on his toes & by the end of the night he was on the ball. :thumbsup: ..he feels comfortable in doing it now with me which is a good thing. :thumbsup:

I like keeping keen young learning guys on the ball like that while spotlighting..its dark so they cant see & have to rely on other senses to be aware....they seem to soon get a sense of awareness of the state of the rifle...after a while ill ask them where the bitumen road is, or if the farm house is behind where they/or me are about to take a shot...that usually pulls the genuine guys up a bit & makes them realise there is much more to spotlighting than just hoot'n n toot'n...after just a couple of trips out it starts to become second nature to them. :clap:


Your doing the right thing Stix, I to do the same sorts of things, I also talk my way through the shot so to speak, ie I let the other person with me know I've checked the background as I'm looking through the scope at the target to make sure there is no stock etc behind my target and I also let them know when I'm about to take the shot - all good habits to get into I reckon, saves having to deal with a potential life-threatening situation in the end so worth doing. :drinks:
User avatar
bigfellascott
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 5289
-

Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Cal-ApeR » 22 Dec 2018, 8:04 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
Stix wrote:The rules in my car are the person behind the rifle audibly volunteers the chamber empty & makes it clear they physically check too...& thats after every encounter/near encounter/car stop/bladder emptying stop/can swap-out/munchies grab/gutting session stop etc...if they are a bit too slow to it, someone else asks & no one is offended, or accidentally shot.

I always make it known im empty every stop if in someone elses car...!

Once i didnt volunteer the rifle safe on purpose when spotlighting in my car & i gave my shooting partner (a young lad) a bit of semi-funny but serious lip for not pulling me up on it...!!
I told him dont be shy because the gun goes off its final...every now & then id randomly ask him if i had one in the chamber to keep him on his toes & by the end of the night he was on the ball. :thumbsup: ..he feels comfortable in doing it now with me which is a good thing. :thumbsup:

I like keeping keen young learning guys on the ball like that while spotlighting..its dark so they cant see & have to rely on other senses to be aware....they seem to soon get a sense of awareness of the state of the rifle...after a while ill ask them where the bitumen road is, or if the farm house is behind where they/or me are about to take a shot...that usually pulls the genuine guys up a bit & makes them realise there is much more to spotlighting than just hoot'n n toot'n...after just a couple of trips out it starts to become second nature to them. :clap:


Your doing the right thing Stix, I to do the same sorts of things, I also talk my way through the shot so to speak, ie I let the other person with me know I've checked the background as I'm looking through the scope at the target to make sure there is no stock etc behind my target and I also let them know when I'm about to take the shot - all good habits to get into I reckon, saves having to deal with a potential life-threatening situation in the end so worth doing. :drinks:


Both of what you have said is what I was taught. Fear of offending someone goes right out the window where firearm safety is concerned. Good thread Gents.
I'd rather be hunting
User avatar
Cal-ApeR
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 215
Queensland

Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by Blutius Maximus » 25 Dec 2018, 2:30 pm

I haven't read through all 8 pages so I'm not sure if something similar has been mentioned.

When I'm hunting Deer with my Winchester 94 30-30, it remains unloaded until I'm in the hunt.
Then mag gets loaded, one in the chamber and hammer on half cock.
This rifle is too noisy to keep the chamber empty and cycle a round in once game is seen. Much better just pulling the hammer back.
That said, I'm on my own, moving very slowly and still safety conscious wrt barrel direction etc.

I have hunted with others (trusted people who's behavior you know) where we've been in close proximity with rounds in chamber, safety on.
Always, the barrel is kept pointed in a safe direction and most importantly, the firearm carried in a controlled manner.

When I've gone out with someone I'm not familiar with, I talk about safety beforehand.
If I ever see a lapse, that's it, I'm done and will never go with that person again.
User avatar
Blutius Maximus
Private
Private
 
Posts: 64
-

Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by JSS » 05 Jan 2019, 6:55 am

What a tragic tale. But to be honest if that's how he carries when hunting he was an accident waiting to happen. I also found it a bit weird that the buck got so much attention in the story............ that would be the last thing on my mind if i just killed my mate, and i certainly wouldn't be going on about it as part of my "gun safety" video.
Just my opinion.
User avatar
JSS
Corporal
Corporal
 
Posts: 295
Queensland

Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by marksman » 05 Jan 2019, 8:19 am

JSS wrote:What a tragic tale. But to be honest if that's how he carries when hunting he was an accident waiting to happen. I also found it a bit weird that the buck got so much attention in the story............ that would be the last thing on my mind if i just killed my mate, and i certainly wouldn't be going on about it as part of my "gun safety" video.
Just my opinion.


my thoughts as well JSS
I do not feel any sympathy for this guy at all
very bad conclusion, IMO he deserved a court case at least
it's good for us shooters that he didn't though :wtf:

I agree with what you have written as well Jager :thumbsup:
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by JimTom » 05 Jan 2019, 8:10 pm

We all know that safety when using our firearms is absolutely paramount.
I make a point of clearing and announcing as such that my rifle is clear before hoping back into a vehicle.
You just can’t be to careful and if you’re not, then unfortunately you or someone else will be injured or worse.
Would be the worst feeling in the world.
User avatar
JimTom
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2130
Queensland

Re: Why you never have a round in the chamber until you need

Post by mickyj » 26 Jul 2019, 3:00 pm

There will always be a time when the muzzle is pointed in a direction that is out of the control of the shooter. Case in point just before you go arse over tit becasue you have tripped on barbed wire like i did the other day. Rule number 1. should be don't chamber your weapon until you are ready to fire and 2. Muzzle awareness.
There are occasions when the muzzle is out of ones control or there is a chance of it.
mickyj
Private
Private
 
Posts: 57
New South Wales

Previous

Back to top
 
Return to Hunting - Game hunting and large prey