22 Hornet

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22 Hornet

Post by Cal-ApeR » 21 Dec 2018, 9:23 am

Ok, the 22 Hornet. Who has one and what are you using it for? What sort of distances can it shoot? Would you buy one in today's day and age with 17hmr etc? My grandfather used to own one and talked fondly of the cartridge back in the day. I'm thinking it was his equivalent to our 17HMR.
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by bladeracer » 21 Dec 2018, 9:31 am

Cal-ApeR wrote:Ok, the 22 Hornet. Who has one and what are you using it for? What sort of distances can it shoot? Would you buy one in today's day and age with 17hmr etc? My grandfather used to own one and talked fondly of the cartridge back in the day. I'm thinking it was his equivalent to our 17HMR.


I like the Hornet, but I wouldn't buy one nowadays.
Just get .223Rem and you can load it down to do everything the Hornet can do, while still being able to do everything the .223 offers.
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by bigrich » 21 Dec 2018, 10:25 am

I had a really accurate heavy barreled krico , awesome trigger. Was owned then rebarreled by Allan swan. 22 hornet was a great little caliber, taught me a lot about reloading. Really cheap to shoot if you reload. 12.7 grains of lil’ gun goes a long way. I never got much opportunity to snipe at bunny or foxes, and case life isn’t as good as other calibers . I upgraded to a 1975 Winchester 222 as I feel it would be more versatile with good case life. From a cost and accuracy perspective a Tikka 223 is the bee’s knee’s , but I personally like classic calibers. If you want a really accurate hornet, my old krico is for sale on browns plains firearms QLD. I left some of my target groups with them and can supply super accurate load data for this rifle . Hope this helps
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by Cal-ApeR » 21 Dec 2018, 11:43 am

Thanks guys, I figured your this would be along those lines. I've got a nice 223 that shoots great. I'd be unlikely to trade it in for a Hornet. Might look into the cartridge a little more though. Still interested.
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by JimTom » 21 Dec 2018, 1:20 pm

Mate I have a fondness for the Hornet as well. The old fella always had one and we used to shoot it all of the time when we were kids.
Wouldn’t mind one myself however I have a .223 and as Bladeracer said, you can load it down to Hornet velocities if you wish.
Would still be nice to have one though.
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by bladeracer » 21 Dec 2018, 1:48 pm

JimTom wrote:Would still be nice to have one though.


I agree, I do still want a Hornet :-)
I actually use the .204 as my "Hornet", using 32gn ZMax bullets at 2400fps.
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by JimTom » 21 Dec 2018, 1:51 pm

bladeracer wrote:
JimTom wrote:Would still be nice to have one though.


I agree, I do still want a Hornet :-)
I actually use the .204 as my "Hornet", using 32gn ZMax bullets at 2400fps.


Having read this forum for a year or so now, all of the talk about the .204 definitely has sparked interest there as well. Would be nice.
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by bladeracer » 21 Dec 2018, 2:03 pm

JimTom wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
JimTom wrote:Would still be nice to have one though.


I agree, I do still want a Hornet :-)
I actually use the .204 as my "Hornet", using 32gn ZMax bullets at 2400fps.


Having read this forum for a year or so now, all of the talk about the .204 definitely has sparked interest there as well. Would be nice.


The .204 is nice. Even though I load it in a variety of ways to put it to every use I can, it's still a pretty narrow-focus cartridge. .223 or .243 can do most of what the .204 can do, and still do everything they're capable of as well. My .223 can't shoot a 24gn bullet at 4400fps, but it can shoot 35gn bullets at 3900fps, and still shoot 80gn bullets. My .243 can shoot 55gn bullets at 4000fps, but can also shoot 105gn bullets.
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by JimTom » 21 Dec 2018, 3:24 pm

Think I will just be content with my .223 for the moment. Hopefully powerball is just around the corner. One of everything then. ;-)
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by bigrich » 21 Dec 2018, 3:43 pm

bladeracer wrote:
JimTom wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
JimTom wrote:Would still be nice to have one though.


I agree, I do still want a Hornet :-)
I actually use the .204 as my "Hornet", using 32gn ZMax bullets at 2400fps.


Having read this forum for a year or so now, all of the talk about the .204 definitely has sparked interest there as well. Would be nice.


The .204 is nice. Even though I load it in a variety of ways to put it to every use I can, it's still a pretty narrow-focus cartridge. .223 or .243 can do most of what the .204 can do, and still do everything they're capable of as well. My .223 can't shoot a 24gn bullet at 4400fps, but it can shoot 35gn bullets at 3900fps, and still shoot 80gn bullets. My .243 can shoot 55gn bullets at 4000fps, but can also shoot 105gn bullets.


i had a similar idea by moving up to 222. load it down to a hornet, or load it up for the full power. i do miss my hornet sometimes but :(
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by Daddybang » 21 Dec 2018, 3:52 pm

I've only shot a hornet a couple of Times maybe twenty rounds all up and while the fellas are right there are other rounds that are more "efficient" today I still enjoy shooting my mates when I get the chance.
I used to drink beers with an old fella (now unfortunately passed on) who was a pro croc shooter back in the late fifties early sixties and the hornet was his round of choice as it was a tiny hole and didn't f@#k the skin. :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by Chappo » 21 Dec 2018, 5:40 pm

All the talk here about reloading up and down is pretty spot on but i don’t reload and not really interested in it right now so having different calibres to mess about with is handy.
My 22 hornet fills a nice gap between 22lr and 223. And I love using it.
I would rather have one than a 17hmr.

If your like me and don’t shoot enough to worry about reloading or the price of factory rounds then buy one!
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by SillyWetTas » 21 Dec 2018, 5:58 pm

It's a great catridge in a pistol for Silhouette.
Shoots flat out to 100m with 55grn speer and hits the rams hard
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by Cal-ApeR » 21 Dec 2018, 6:44 pm

Certainly seems it still has its fans. I guess it's a nostalgic thing for some. I've never shot one but heard many stories from my old man and grandfather. Hmmmm, to buy another rifle or not to buy. Ha, we'll have to wait and see. Hard to justify web I have 223 and a 243 already .....
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by bigrich » 21 Dec 2018, 6:51 pm

22 hornet is basically a slightly more powerful and more accurate , reloadable 22 mag. sorta kinda . easiest way to explain it if ya haven't played with one . technical junkies may pick that statement to pieces, but that's it in a nutshell. i like them, but i don't have a practicle use for it where i hunt. 22 hornet is capable of really good accuracy, and a 40-46 gr projectile has more punch than 17hmr IMHO :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by gunnnie » 21 Dec 2018, 6:54 pm

Great little cartridge & when combined with a good action, tight chamber & good handloads, quite accurate.
I own two standard Hornets, a K-Hornet & a 17 Ackley Hornet. The two standars are in what I consider the best variants to come ijnto the shooting world - BRNO's. One is a 1958 BRNO ZKW465 &the other a latter version, the Model 2 Fox.

The ZKW465 is a magic rifle, mini-Mauser action, double set triggers, walnut timber a classic European styling. Its younger sibling isn't of the same standard of fit/finish, but nonetheless beautiful.

Where people come unstuck with these rifles is using American brass in a European spec'd chamber. This leads to a headspace problem which causes poor accuracy & case life. The US brass has a thinner rim which creates excessive headspace. By using Sako, Norma or S&B brass the problem is easily resolved.

Another great action for a Hornet chambering is the Martini Cadet. I have a K-Hornet made up on a Martini Cadet action & it is in the final stages of getting new timber.

The Hornet is also a good basis for many sub-224 cal wildcats. My 17 Ackley Hornet is also built up on a Martini Cadet action, with a Tobler #5 profile barrel & carved tiger stripe grained stock.

As has been said, this cartridge can teach you a lot about finesse in reloading. All while still being relatively easy to reload for. I use projectiles varying fron the tiny Barnes 35gn Varmint Grenades throught to 50gn Nosler BT's in the K-H. I don't use 2205 as it just doesn't suit the cartridge I've found. I prefer using Win296, Lil'Gun or IMR4227.

In a tight chamber it is possible to produce great velocities without reducing case life to only one or two reloads. Check out Saubier.com for further info on the Hornet.

For an effective, lightweight, walkabout small game rifle capable of taking game up to goats, within 150m, there's nothing wrong with a CZ527 shooting reloads using 40gn pills over 11ish gns of Lil'Gun. For cheap shooting, the 40gn Winchester JHP 22mag projectiles over 10-11gns of Li'Gun is also hard to beat.

Yes, I do like the cartridge. Hi, my name is Gunnie & I am a Hornet tragic....
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by bigrich » 21 Dec 2018, 6:59 pm

gunnnie wrote:Great little cartridge & when combined with a good action, tight chamber & good handloads, quite accurate.
I own two standard Hornets, a K-Hornet & a 17 Ackley Hornet. The two standars are in what I consider the best variants to come ijnto the shooting world - BRNO's. One is a 1958 BRNO ZKW465 &the other a latter version, the Model 2 Fox.

The ZKW465 is a magic rifle, mini-Mauser action, double set triggers, walnut timber a classic European styling. Its younger sibling isn't of the same standard of fit/finish, but nonetheless beautiful.

Where people come unstuck with these rifles is using American brass in a European spec'd chamber. This leads to a headspace problem which causes poor accuracy & case life. The US brass has a thinner rim which creates excessive headspace. By using Sako, Norma or S&B brass the problem is easily resolved.

Another great action for a Hornet chambering is the Martini Cadet. I have a K-Hornet made up on a Martini Cadet action & it is in the final stages of getting new timber.

The Hornet is also a good basis for many sub-224 cal wildcats. My 17 Ackley Hornet is also built up on a Martini Cadet action, with a Tobler #5 profile barrel & carved tiger stripe grained stock.

As has been said, this cartridge can teach you a lot about finesse in reloading. All while still being relatively easy to reload for. I use projectiles varying fron the tiny Barnes 35gn Varmint Grenades throught to 50gn Nosler BT's in the K-H. I don't use 2205 as it just doesn't suit the cartridge I've found. I prefer using Win296, Lil'Gun or IMR4227.

In a tight chamber it is possible to produce great velocities without reducing case life to only one or two reloads. Check out Saubier.com for further info on the Hornet.

For an effective, lightweight, walkabout small game rifle capable of taking game up to goats, within 150m, there's nothing wrong with a CZ527 shooting reloads using 40gn pills over 11ish gns of Lil'Gun. For cheap shooting, the 40gn Winchester JHP 22mag projectiles over 10-11gns of Li'Gun is also hard to beat.

Yes, I do like the cartridge. Hi, my name is Gunnie & I am a Hornet tragic....


:lol: :lol: good on ya hornet tragic :D the load that worked in my heavy barreled krico was 12.7 gr lil' gun in hornady brass, win small pistol primers , with a 40 gr sierra hornet projectile. that would at least do three shots touching at 100 . your all b@rstards ! i miss my hornet now....... :cry:
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by gunnnie » 21 Dec 2018, 8:19 pm

Go on, you know you want another one!!!
I'm sure there's room in your safe for a nice BRNO ZKW465!
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by marksman » 21 Dec 2018, 8:21 pm

I have a zkw 22 hornet
it's a great little gun to shoot and carry, I use lil gun powder, with 40 grain projectiles, its best to use handgun primers to get better accuracy
I have two 17 ackleys as well that are used more often for the rabbits
I like the hornet especially in an old brno :drinks:
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by Chappo » 21 Dec 2018, 8:56 pm

gunnnie wrote:
The ZKW465 is a magic rifle, mini-Mauser action, double set triggers, walnut timber a classic European styling. Its younger sibling isn't of the same standard of fit/finish, but nonetheless beautiful..



Interesting!
If I bought another hornet it’d be a Brno.
For some reason id’ve thought the fox a better rifle.
Apart from fit and finish have you got any other gripes? Wouldn’t the fox have the same action and trigger setup?
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by bigrich » 21 Dec 2018, 9:10 pm

gunnnie wrote:Go on, you know you want another one!!!
I'm sure there's room in your safe for a nice BRNO ZKW465!


i had one of those, my old krico was better ! true ! :thumbsup:
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by gunnnie » 21 Dec 2018, 10:54 pm

Chappo wrote:
gunnnie wrote:
The ZKW465 is a magic rifle, mini-Mauser action, double set triggers, walnut timber a classic European styling. Its younger sibling isn't of the same standard of fit/finish, but nonetheless beautiful..



Interesting!
If I bought another hornet it’d be a Brno.
For some reason id’ve thought the fox a better rifle.
Apart from fit and finish have you got any other gripes? Wouldn’t the fox have the same action and trigger setup?


Chappo, the Fox Model 2's were in the same league as the ZKW's. There are differences in the action, though not major. The trigger is the same, with the front trigger being very heavy unset. The main differences are in the stock shape/style and the overall quality of fit & finish.

I'd always craved a ZKW but the prices for a decent one just seemed to keep going up & up. So when I lucked on to a Fox Model2 Hornet I jumped on it. Then as luck would have it, a ZKW turned up at a price too good to pass up. There's just something about the early BRNO's. I've since added a model 2 Fox in 222 & a CZ 527 222 varminter to the collection.
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by bigrich » 22 Dec 2018, 5:00 am

gunnnie wrote:Go on, you know you want another one!!!
I'm sure there's room in your safe for a nice BRNO ZKW465!


i did own one of those , it was rebarreled with a slim barrel profile and the barrel band that attaches to the stock halfway down the barrel wasn't fitted . it shot like crap for me, so i moved it on . couldn't get it to group under 2 1/2 " @ 100 . damn the set triggers are light on those . i tried winchester 46 gr hollow point factory ammo in my krico and it shot really really well . which is a first for win ammo :lol: :lol: easy under a inch at 100. i bought some 46 gr win projectiles, and they work well in reloads :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by SCJ429 » 22 Dec 2018, 8:35 am

marksman wrote:I have a zkw 22 hornet
it's a great little gun to shoot and carry, I use lil gun powder, with 40 grain projectiles, its best to use handgun primers to get better accuracy
I have two 17 ackleys as well that are used more often for the rabbits
I like the hornet especially in an old brno :drinks:


What sort of primers are you using? Something like a CCI 550?

I like the idea of a Hornet but then think about other cool calibers like a 20/222 or 20 Practical. I have not seen many Hornets that are impressive accuracy wise. Perhaps because not many use aftermarket barrels.
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by JimTom » 22 Dec 2018, 9:07 am

SCJ429 wrote:
marksman wrote:I have a zkw 22 hornet
it's a great little gun to shoot and carry, I use lil gun powder, with 40 grain projectiles, its best to use handgun primers to get better accuracy
I have two 17 ackleys as well that are used more often for the rabbits
I like the hornet especially in an old brno :drinks:


What sort of primers are you using? Something like a CCI 550?

I like the idea of a Hornet but then think about other cool calibers like a 20/222 or 20 Practical. I have not seen many Hornets that are impressive accuracy wise. Perhaps because not many use aftermarket barrels.


Maybe just the rifles you have used mate, the Hornet I have used are real tack drivers.
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by gunnnie » 22 Dec 2018, 9:51 am

I also use CCI Sml Pistol primers. There are a few explanations as to why this is the better way to go, such as lower initial pressure spike from the primer not forcing the projectile forward, but it just seems to produce better accuracy in my rifle/loads.

bigrich, hard to say why your rifle wouldn't group. Was the headspace set up for a specific brand of brass? The usual remedy was to rechamber to K-Hornet & headspace on the shoulder of the case. This would often see rifles producing sub-MOA accuracy.

The Winchester 22mag projectiles are a great little pill for the Hornet. My first Hornet was CBC151 single shot, ugly as sin & only capable of 1.75MOA on a good day. But when I started reloading for it I was advised to try those 40gn JHP's & 10gn of 2205 & crimping the pills. Massive improvement, down to consistent MOA @ 100M. Plus it was bloody cheap reloading, great news for a recently married young fella with the first kid on the way. I got 700 loads from a can of 2205 & the pills were around $7/100.

I found that my K-Hornet loves these with the 45gn Nosler BT's coming a close second. If I use 2205 I've found that I have to crimp the pills in the case otherwise I end up with unburnt granules of powder in the bore/chamber. Not good in a Martini action as it causes problems with closing. I was lucky enough to score 1500 of these pills earlier this year, so I have a good supply of these now.

With the standard Hornet, if you pay particular attention during reloading you will notice accuracy gains. The humble Hornet can produce good consistent MOA accuracy with load development. The first thing I do is to match brass to brand. As both my bolt action Hornets are of European origin I only use Sako, Norma or S&B. Sako brass will give a little more internal volume I've found, but all three brands will have a slightly thicker rim which matches the specifications of the chamber/headspacing used by manufacturers such as CZ.

From there the brass is prepped by checking uniform flash hole size, deburring the inside of the flash hole, checking case neck uniformity/thickness & the overal length. Each powder charge is weighed on the scales & dropped into the case via a long tubed funnel. The first loads with new brass I try to seat the projectile out to touch the lands. This helps support the case in the chamber so it expands/forms to the rifle's chamber dimensions uniformly.

Fired cases are only neck sized using a Lee collet die and if the brass is becoming slightly tight to chamber, I'll use a Redding body die to bump the case back just a fraction. But as I don't push hot loads, it takes a while before this happens, if at all. After the first firing, future loads have the pill seated to suit the magazine.

This may seem like a lot of fiddling around as compared to reloading for a 223. But then again, if you want the best in accuracy potential from a 223 then you have to take similar steps.

The big trap that has troubled the Hornet for years, is shooters buying a Hornet thinking its a 222/223! The Hornet is a niche cartridge these days when you look at where it sits in the calibre ladder & the other cartridges. It's a 150M small game round that is suited to small holdings where limited ranges & noise is a consideration. Used with these limitations firmly ingrained in one's psyche, the cartridge will deliver. In the hands of a very competant shot, who knows the rifle/load intimately, shots out to 250M in ideal conditions, are within reason on small game.

It isn't an all round cartridge by any means, but it is a great little round in it's own right. It has a long history & will continue for years to come.
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by marksman » 22 Dec 2018, 3:45 pm

SCJ429 wrote:
marksman wrote:I have a zkw 22 hornet
it's a great little gun to shoot and carry, I use lil gun powder, with 40 grain projectiles, its best to use handgun primers to get better accuracy
I have two 17 ackleys as well that are used more often for the rabbits
I like the hornet especially in an old brno :drinks:


What sort of primers are you using? Something like a CCI 550?

I like the idea of a Hornet but then think about other cool calibers like a 20/222 or 20 Practical. I have not seen many Hornets that are impressive accuracy wise. Perhaps because not many use aftermarket barrels.


the cci 500 small pistol primer :drinks:

I bought the rifle for my daughter as a carry around rabbit rifle for her and I got it cheap
the stock was a black mess when we got it but this is what it was like when I cleaned her up

Image

there are plenty more accurate precise rounds out there but I like the hornet and really like brno's :drinks:
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by SCJ429 » 22 Dec 2018, 6:24 pm

Nice work MM, I always liked the idea of a Hornet and A friend let me shoot his Brno, a K Hornet. He is an experienced reloader and said it was never going to shoot any better than just under an inch. I have seen others where the owners were a little frustrated trying to get some decent results. I have read that Lil Gun powder has been a real boone for Hornet owners.

I have never reloaded for a Hornet but would like to have a go. Perhaps someone I know will get themselves a 17 Hornet.
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by marksman » 22 Dec 2018, 8:54 pm

SCJ429 wrote:Nice work MM, I always liked the idea of a Hornet and A friend let me shoot his Brno, a K Hornet. He is an experienced reloader and said it was never going to shoot any better than just under an inch. I have seen others where the owners were a little frustrated trying to get some decent results. I have read that Lil Gun powder has been a real boone for Hornet owners.

I have never reloaded for a Hornet but would like to have a go. Perhaps someone I know will get themselves a 17 Hornet.


the 17 ackley or 17 hornady hornets are a cracker
I let two guys at the little river range shoot some forming loads in one of my 17 ackley's and no BS within the week they both had 17 hornady hornets,
both of them :lol: one of them is a guy who gets really bored with his rifles very quick and passes them on but he still has this one and its been a few years now since that happened, I have shown these guys how to make there own brass out of 22 hornet cases because at that time the cases available were not very good, no consistency at all and they were getting a hell of a lot of flyers,

the hornet I bought for my daughter to use and tweaked is a 1/2 moa performer, she can shoot rabbits out to 125 in the head all day with it no worries but she excels with the 22-250 out to 300, she has asked if I will rebarrel her hornet to 17 ackley because it is much more precise to shoot but I am having a hard time doing it as this rifle is in very good original order :unknown: I may have to buy another rifle for her :drinks:
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Re: 22 Hornet

Post by GLS_1956 » 23 Dec 2018, 1:33 am

Cal-ApeR wrote:Ok, the 22 Hornet. Who has one and what are you using it for? What sort of distances can it shoot? Would you buy one in today's day and age with 17hmr etc? My grandfather used to own one and talked fondly of the cartridge back in the day. I'm thinking it was his equivalent to our 17HMR.


I've got a couple of 22Hornets rifles, Sako Model 78 and Ruger No 3, as well as a 22Hornet barrel for a T/C Contender. What did I hunt with them, I've not gone after anything but some birds in a couple of decades, coyote, feral dogs, crows, and turkey. Distance depends on the accuracy and energy of the rifle and load, the Sako is more accurate than the Ruger, From the Sako I could get 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups at 100 yards which is plenty good enough for coyote, adults run in the 30 to 40 pound range, and the factory 40 grain bullet has enough energy to do the job. Would I get one today? I got the Ruger about 4 months ago if that answers the question. Big plus for 22Hornets are they are a very efficient cartridge and you get alot done with minimal powder, if you reload, but 55 grain bullet is probably max weight to use. Another advantage is that they are a, comparitivley, a quiet round, if you're shooting around populated areas their accoustic foot print is, while larger than the 22LR, much smaller than the 222Rem/223Rem round.
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