Wanting Budget rifle info - Savage, Ruger, Howa?

[bigrich]

Yeah I reckon in the old days "what you paid for you got was probably right" but this day and age things have caught up well and truly in regards to a lot of things. I've spend $1500 + on a Tikka and $1800 on a 2nd hand Sako and I can honestly say it won't ever happen again, I've gotten better results accuracy wise out of my cheap arse Howas FFS! yes they aren't as well finished but FMD seriously who cares if they aren't as flash, the bloody things shoot real well for me compared to they more expensive and fancied and over hyped ones I've purchased these things are a breeze to get to shoot well and for the $$ they have shot amazingly "Out of the Box" and still do - sadly my experience of "What you pay for you get" hasn't come close to what it should have been, far from it infact and quite the opposite (make of that what you will but there seems to be a few others who have had similar experiences regarding what they spend in relation to the results they have achieved so far, not only in relations to rifles but scopes and all manner of firearms related things.

The "Hype and salesmanship doesn't always add up to a great out come despite what does are outlayed. And that is a fact backed up by a friend who also works in a well known gunshop wo has worked there many years - make of that what you will!

sorry to hear you haven't had a good run with some stuff scott, i had a second hand lemon myself, i bought a brno 465 22 hornet. a proper early one not a fox. it had been rebarreled and shot like crap. i was gutted , wasn't going to throw any more money at it and moved it on. i mostly buy second hand stuff like my model 70 winchesters, cause stuff made in the 70's and early 80's was better made IMHO. get my local smith to freshen them if they need it and i'm good to go. i've only bought one new rifle, a weihrauch 22lr. beutifully finished qaulity gun, awesome trigger. accuracy wise, average for what it cost. i traded it on a second hand cz 452 american that was lighter and more accurate. the second hand sako i have is the most accurate rifle i have, i got real lucky. if the howa's are doing it for ya that's all that matters hey ? corporate globalism, returns for the company share holders are more important than a good product for the customer these days it would seem . these are some of my experiences, ya gotta sort the good from the bad whether it's new or secondhand . one thing i will spend good dollars on are leupold scopes. never had a complaint about any, great lense clarity, and a lifetime garuntee, even if your not the original purchaser FFS !

[TassieTiger]

interesting idea on the $2k deer rifle package , how would you assess it though ?

The parameters for the polling would be a realistic budget for rifle and scope - the budget would have to be capped at an amount that precludes someone from say buying a high end rifle and $100 scope...so maybe $1500 is a better number to preclude sako, etc.

You’d have to offer up a decent amount of “rifle/scope packages” for ppl to choose from and calibre would be irrelevant.
If you could get 20-30 voters then you’d start to see a trend of favoured rifle combinations for a given discipline.
Your not going to please everyone and some ppl will want various weird scopes / set ups but if you match mainstream rifles to mainstream scopes you capture the majority of peeps opinions.
I don’t think it would be as clear cut as ppl might think eg ppl would have to choose only their fav combo out of...howa with a Leopold 6-18 vs a tikka with a Bushnell 3/9 vs a steyr with a red field 4/18 vs a savage with a vortex 4/12 and so on...total value new has to be 1500 or under.
On other forums you could set up a poll but I’m on a phone whilst pc gets sorted so not sure if it’s an option here at present.

[bigrich]

Yeah that's what I was thinking, think I may just have to get a second job and just buy one of everything suggested to settle it easily! Think that may be a problem solver.

i've thought about that. buy one of everything, shoot them all and keep the one that "fits" i don't think i've heard of any rifle makers that haven't had a lemon sneak through now and then. even sako . when i was a young fella 30 years ago, there were less choices which made it easier . scopes ,rifles , reloading gear, so much choice these days . so many opinions . shame there aren't gunshops where you can go "test drive" a rifle at a range before you buy it. find yourself a older shooters sorted out 30-06 '98 mauser ,wichester or rem 700 maybe . i know a fella who bought a 303 recently second hand for a good price of a old fella and it's a great shooter. just a thought, good luck , let us know how ya go .

[bigrich]

The parameters for the polling would be a realistic budget for rifle and scope - the budget would have to be capped at an amount that precludes someone from say buying a high end rifle and $100 scope...so maybe $1500 is a better number to preclude sako, etc.

You’d have to offer up a decent amount of “rifle/scope packages” for ppl to choose from and calibre would be irrelevant.
If you could get 20-30 voters then you’d start to see a trend of favoured rifle combinations for a given discipline.
Your not going to please everyone and some ppl will want various weird scopes / set ups but if you match mainstream rifles to mainstream scopes you capture the majority of peeps opinions.
I don’t think it would be as clear cut as ppl might think eg ppl would have to choose only their fav combo out of...howa with a Leopold 6-18 vs a tikka with a Bushnell 3/9 vs a steyr with a red field 4/18 vs a savage with a vortex 4/12 and so on...total value new has to be 1500 or under.
On other forums you could set up a poll but I’m on a phone whilst pc gets sorted so not sure if it’s an option here at present.

intersting tas, if someone wants to set it up i'll play i want a 300 win mag with a red dot , and a 45-70 marlin with a 6-20x50
nah, seriously i think it would be fun

[bigfellascott]

sorry to hear you haven't had a good run with some stuff scott

Yeah she's a lottery at times when it comes to firearms whether they be new or 2nd hand. I think the reason I like the Howa's so much is I've always got good results from them, they just seem to shoot real well compared to the more fancied and highly thought of brands I own and have left me wondering why the hell did I pay so much and go so little in return (accuracy wise) I loved the feel of that little Sako it was beautiful to shoulder etc, but it was ordinary in the accuracy department and honestly I just could not be bothered stuffing around with trying to get it too shoot in the end, nothing I tried seemed to make bugger all difference and I just lost interest in stuffing around with it so sold it and used that money to buy the Tikka which is a nice rifle to handle etc (lite) but again nothing special in the accuracy department but good enough for it's intended use and I'm sure with some reloads it will improve in the accuracy department too (so long as the first shots on the money it really doesn't matter much, to be honest).

As for the glass, I would have thought there would have been a big difference between the cheaper stuff I own and some of the top euro glass I'd compared them too and honestly I was very surprised to see SFA in reality, I would have thought there were glaring obvious differences but there really wasn't, maybe a light improvement in clarity etc but I just honestly couldn't see the difference in the massive $$ diff to really see what all the fuss was about, to be honest.

[straightshooter]

Yeah sometimes I wonder about that statement, I've got a $1400 Ruger Hawkeye and honestly the Howa's s**t all over it for smoothness and most importantly accuracy, and I got 2 Howas for the price of the Ruger! Sometimes I think marketing is what makes some things seem like they are somehow worth more than they perhaps should be, not always but sometimes.

What seems to elude peoples general consciousness is that it's not just the budget for actual production of the physical product. It's also the share of the sale price that goes to the margins for each of the middlemen in the supply chain. As well as the size of the advertising budget, there is the largesse extended to reviewers and influencers and the on the quiet retainers to internet and forum spruikers.
This is all an additional cost that makes no physical contribution to quality of any attribute that the firearm may have and I will give you one guess who actually pays for it.

Now please allow me to rearrange your last statement:
Marketing is what makes some things seem like they are somehow worth more than they perhaps should be, not always but generally so.

[bigrich]

yeah , this is a real minefeild of opinions on "ya get what ya pay for" ,marketing , ect . bottom line, we are all individuals, with different wants, needs and uses for firearms. i've got a couple of older rifles that i've had gunsmithed for very good results. that's a throwback to my years of restoring and modifing old v8 holdens and hot rods etc . that's just how my mind works, rebuild old qaulity stuff. i've had to wear glasses for the last few years, and spending the extra on the best qaulity scope i can afford gives me some peace of mind that i'm giving myself the best chance to hit what i'm aiming at . that's just me. all these different views and opinions make for interesting discussion, be bloody boring all talking about the same brand of rifle

[bigfellascott]

Marketing is what makes some things seem like they are somehow worth more than they perhaps should be, not always but generally so.

Yeah spot on mate, I also think our $$ compared to other countries tends to make things more expensive and again we equate that if it costs more it should be better, sometimes that is true and sometimes it's not and marketing really is what drives people to believe that something is better all because they keep telling ya so, a good example is Toyota! Oh yeah what a feeling

[bigrich]

but BFS, all the hot chicks in the tv adds tell me toyota's and ford rangers are great

[bigfellascott]

but BFS, all the hot chicks in the tv adds tell me toyota's and ford rangers are great

IGZACHARY

Seriously though it's that ol trick which pollies and media etc use, keep repeating the same message and eventually it becomes the truth.

Stihl and Husky are good at it too, big budgets etc to keep telling the world they have the best saws etc, the truth is there are as good a saws out there but they don't have the marketing $$$ to push the message as it were.

[bigrich]

another point of view is if we don't pay extra for some products just on principle, the only winner in the long run is china our politicians sold us out with free trade agreements a long time ago .......we were a self sufficient country that made t.v's , radios, washing machines , cars , buses and trucks (anyone old enough to remember "leader" ? ). now we seem to trade on mining, tourism and farming. there have been a lot of great ideas and business that have gone overseas because of too much red tape and lack of support from our government . back to topic, how does lithgow crossover compare to our budget rifle selection ?

[JimTom]

I think Lithgow are in another league compared to Howa, Savage, and Ruger.
Would own another Lithgow in a heartbeat. Keen to see what caliber they release next once this rubbish with the barrels is sorted out.

[bigfellascott]

I found the Lithgows to be heavy suckers (17hmr lam stock version) I was surprised just how heavy it was actually, I wasn't expecting it to be that heavy. Nicely made rifles all the same but can't say I'd sell the little Lam Stocked Savage or the Brno Mod2 to own one.

[JimTom]

Yeah they are a little weighty mate. I had a BRNO mod 2 which foolishly parted with some time ago and have since replaced with the Lithgow. Wish I had kept the BRNO to be honest mate. Still the Lithgow is just fine.

[bigfellascott]

Yeah they are a little weighty mate. I had a BRNO mod 2 which foolishly parted with some time ago and have since replaced with the Lithgow. Wish I had kept the BRNO to be honest mate. Still the Lithgow is just fine.

Yeah the Lithgow is a well put together outfit, for me at my stage of life I want lighter rifles and the little Lithgow isn't that sadly. They do some beautiful machining work at the factory going by what I've seen.

[Goose#24]

Cheers all appreciate the help! I was having a squizz on used guns and saw a Weatherby Vanguard 270 with a Bushnell banner 3-9x40 on it for $500 thought that may be worth a look?

[TassieTiger]

Mate - I recently broke a weatherby vanguard in 06 - well, the cliff broke it...gravity helped. Until then it was shooting beautifully - moa no problem. It was light enough to walk around with, recoiled like a itch, was a little loose with bolt and action, but never affected performance- I’d buy another.

[bigrich]

Cheers all appreciate the help! I was having a squizz on used guns and saw a Weatherby Vanguard 270 with a Bushnell banner 3-9x40 on it for $500 thought that may be worth a look?

good rifle by all accounts. might be a bit light on projectile weight for sambar ?

[bigfellascott]

Cheers all appreciate the help! I was having a squizz on used guns and saw a Weatherby Vanguard 270 with a Bushnell banner 3-9x40 on it for $500 thought that may be worth a look?

Yeah that would work nicely on the Fallow

[Goose#24]

Cheers all appreciate the help! I was having a squizz on used guns and saw a Weatherby Vanguard 270 with a Bushnell banner 3-9x40 on it for $500 thought that may be worth a look?

good rifle by all accounts. might be a bit light on projectile weight for sambar ?

Minimum is 130gr I think? So it will do it but it doesnt leave a lot of room for error and wont leave as much ammo selection? I'd rather an 06 or 308 as it's not the min cal.

[Oldbloke]

You can load it with 150gr Will be fine then for sambar

[Sergeant Hartman]

As someone else said, a 270 is wannabe 308 with all the recoil and noise.... but not the result

[Oldbloke]

The 270, 308, & 30-06 have all been very popular deer rounds for a reason. .........
They all work. 303 was used to good effect for many years.

[bigrich]

Nah, geez. Whadya talking about using 303 for OB ? Dontcha know ya need a muzzle braked tacticool rifle in 300 win mag with a military grade scope that shoots out to 2k with a red dot thermal mode I gotta admire the skill of people who have hunted deer with a bow or a 44-40 lever gun. We’re spoiled for choice in this day and age

[bigfellascott]

Nah, geez. Whadya talking about using 303 for OB ? Dontcha know ya need a muzzle braked tacticool rifle in 300 win mag with a military grade scope that shoots out to 2k with a red dot thermal mode I gotta admire the skill of people who have hunted deer with a bow or a 44-40 lever gun. We’re spoiled for choice in this day and age

So true, soon we will need Howitzers with 5kg projectiles to down rabbits at the rate people are getting more and more stupid.

[bigrich]

Nah, geez. Whadya talking about using 303 for OB ? Dontcha know ya need a muzzle braked tacticool rifle in 300 win mag with a military grade scope that shoots out to 2k with a red dot thermal mode I gotta admire the skill of people who have hunted deer with a bow or a 44-40 lever gun. We’re spoiled for choice in this day and age

So true, soon we will need Howitzers with 5kg projectiles to down rabbits at the rate people are getting more and more stupid.

i remember reading eskimo's cull polar bears with 222's . that's balls mate ! all head shot's , but man , ya wouldn't want to miss. still, it's probably safer than a spear i'e bought and sold a few rifles to get a feel on what "fits" me , the few i have now i practice with more, that whole "beware the one gun man, because he knows his rifle" is very true. shot placement is 90% of the job . my 22lr, 222 and 6.5x55 are all i really need for what i hunt , the upper end of game being deer or pigs . i envy you fellas who live rural and get to shoot when ya got the spare time. i only get out in the paddock about six times a year . i really like goat meat and wabbit for the freezer . i'm workin' on getting out more but for the OP's uses a 270 would be good, but from what i've heard about sambar a 30-06 has more room for error

[Goose#24]

So all!
I ended up going to the lgs this morning managed to get a brand new axis II in .270 with a banner on it for $650 obviously not exactly what I was after but I thought for the price it was atleast worth a try!

[wrenchman]

congrats on the new gun have a good time and be safe

[bigfellascott]

So all!
I ended up going to the lgs this morning managed to get a brand new axis II in .270 with a banner on it for $650 obviously not exactly what I was after but I thought for the price it was atleast worth a try!

Enjoy it mate, I'm sure it will do the job fine on the bambies with good shot placement.

[bigfellascott]

Nah, geez. Whadya talking about using 303 for OB ? Dontcha know ya need a muzzle braked tacticool rifle in 300 win mag with a military grade scope that shoots out to 2k with a red dot thermal mode I gotta admire the skill of people who have hunted deer with a bow or a 44-40 lever gun. We’re spoiled for choice in this day and age

So true, soon we will need Howitzers with 5kg projectiles to down rabbits at the rate people are getting more and more stupid.

i remember reading eskimo's cull polar bears with 222's . that's balls mate ! all head shot's , but man , ya wouldn't want to miss. still, it's probably safer than a spear i'e bought and sold a few rifles to get a feel on what "fits" me , the few i have now i practice with more, that whole "beware the one gun man, because he knows his rifle" is very true. shot placement is 90% of the job . my 22lr, 222 and 6.5x55 are all i really need for what i hunt , the upper end of game being deer or pigs . i envy you fellas who live rural and get to shoot when ya got the spare time. i only get out in the paddock about six times a year . i really like goat meat and wabbit for the freezer . i'm workin' on getting out more but for the OP's uses a 270 would be good, but from what i've heard about sambar a 30-06 has more room for error

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlzKM8VSRqc