Help me to choose best rifle in .223

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Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Islander7 » 27 Dec 2018, 5:50 am

Almost got my licence and ready to buy my first rifle. Will be used 99% for varmint control/hunting. This most probably will be my first, the only one, and last rifle, so I want to find and buy the absolute best within my price. Not planning to sell it or buy another in the next many many years.

My requirements are:
- .223
- Wood or Laminate stock
- stainless steel barrel (preferable, but can live with blued if the gun is exceptional otherwise)
- must be reliable, with no known issues.
- must pe very accurate out of the box.
- must last a lifetime

I'm comfortable with spending anywhere between $1500 and $3500 just for the rifle. Just want to buy once, buy right, don't care much about money at this stage.

Initially I was going to just buy Sako 85 and be done with it, but deeper research revealed a known and well-documented ejection issues with some of their rifles that Beretta doesn't consider a warranty issue. I understand that it's an exceptional rifle otherwise, but personally don't want to gamble.

If not Sako 85, what else would you consider?
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by SCJ429 » 27 Dec 2018, 7:37 am

Sako 75?

A secondhand Stiller Tac 30.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Harrynsw » 27 Dec 2018, 7:51 am

If you want the possibility of shooting heavier projectiles, like around the 70 grain mark, you need to pay attention to the twist rate.
Tikka rifles come in a 1:8 or 1:12 for lighter stuff.

I hear nothing but good things about tikka rifles from friends and on the internet. Gonna keep figures rounded up for simplicity. You're looking at about $1100 for the rifle, then another $200 for decent rings and bases. How much you spend on the optic is up to you, let's say you spend $1000 there (do your research on a varminting scope). Then your cleaning apparatus, rods, bore guide, solvent, copper solvent etc another $200, ammo testing say $100 to start off with will buy you 3-4 boxes of different ammo. There's $2600, do you have a safe ready? It adds up fairly quickly.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Islander7 » 27 Dec 2018, 8:09 am

Thanks Harry,

I knew Tikka will be recommended. I also have read hundreds of positive reviews and don't doubt it's precision. My personal 'dislikes' with Tikka are plastic parts (including magazine), limited safety switch, and the fact that they use same action for all calibers. I know these facts don't make Tikka a bad rifle, and I still have it on my list, but want something better, if it exists.

As for the money, my budget is up to $3k (can stretch to 3.5k) just for the rifle. The scope, gun safe, mounting rings etc have their own dedicated budget.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by SCJ429 » 27 Dec 2018, 8:28 am

I have a Tikka with a Tupperware stock and it shoots like a custom rifle, if you would consider a chassis the Tikka Tac A1 would be awesome.

I have a Sako 85, it has never failed to eject and has a best group of 0.181 at 100.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by TassieTiger » 27 Dec 2018, 8:32 am

I usually kind of frown on ppl simply recommending exactly what they have as it’s always a biased opinion-but I’m going to suggest a steyr varmint pro.
They are about $2400 and come with a set trigger / normal trigger and a 3 position safety, including a “storage” feature where the bolt handle pulls down really low as to not catch in safes or bags, etc. the set trigger is freaking amazing - can dial it to 100 grams of pull if you want. Or use normal trigger at adjustable and around 1kg.
They are a 1:9 twist so can take 70gn projectiles. Mine will shoot golf balls dead at insane distances for me (250m). The bolt and action are machined perfectly, like glass - maybe too slick at times.
The barrel is a semi heavy unit - can fire a good amount before it gets hot...is it a walker? Maybe a bit heavy but that’s why it’s soaccurate and can shoot multiples.
The spiral fluting on barrel is not to everyone’s liking but it’s different.
Steyr have a guarantee to shoot better than Moa with factory ammo, but mine is 1/4 to 1/2 with 24gns ar2206h with 55 hornady ballistic.

Yes, sako, tikka are regarded highly, but if your wanting something a little different...?
Ps - do not confuse this with a steyr pro hunter. Very different rifles and performance is not really comparable.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Harrynsw » 27 Dec 2018, 8:47 am

TassieTiger wrote:I usually kind of frown on ppl simply recommending exactly what they have as it’s always a biased opinion-but I’m going to suggest a steyr varmint pro.


Wow...isn't that exactly what you're doing? Reccomending exactly what you have

It's be silly to recommend something you know nothing about, yes?
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by JimTom » 27 Dec 2018, 8:52 am

Sako A7 or Tikka T3x.
I own both of these and can’t fault either.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by bigrich » 27 Dec 2018, 8:54 am

if it was me go the sako 85. or find a second hand 75. thinking out of the box , what about the kimber ? mauser style action, come in a variety of bedded stocks . supposed to be a good thing ? maybe a higher grade weatherby than the vangaurd . they have a good reputation for accuracy and don't have a lot of plastic in them . you said you don't like plastic mags, that rules a lot of rifles out, including the stainless laminate tikka t3 which would be my choice at the bottom end of price

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by bigrich » 27 Dec 2018, 8:55 am

JimTom wrote:Sako A7 or Tikka T3x.
I own both of these and can’t fault either.


i got the S/S A7 in 308 . awesome rifle :thumbsup:
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by SCJ429 » 27 Dec 2018, 8:57 am

Best to get a second hand rifle, get the owner to take you to the range to show you what it can do. Sure fire way to eliminate the dud three inch grouper. A friend bought a new Remington which couldn't hit the side of a barn, if only he could have test fired it before he bought it. Would have saved a lot of grief.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by bigrich » 27 Dec 2018, 9:04 am

SCJ429 wrote:Best to get a second hand rifle, get the owner to take you to the range to show you what it can do. Sure fire way to eliminate the dud three inch grouper. A friend bought a new Remington which couldn't hit the side of a barn, if only he could have test fired it before he bought it. Would have saved a lot of grief.


it would be a damn good idea to have a gun shop with a range where you could test drive before you buy. sure as this exists in the US, but i haven't heard of any out here . probably WAAAAAY too much red tape with the fuzz . testing second hand if you can is a good idea as it's a lucky dip at times. i've bought some awesome firearms second hand, but i've had the odd lemon too

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by knowsnothin » 27 Dec 2018, 9:10 am

Islander7 wrote:This most probably will be my first, the only one, and last rifle...


Yes yes, of course it will be...

Also I recommend getting a high end second hand rifle.
Blaser, Mauser Steyr. Etc.
don’t discount their polymer offerings, they are far superior to the cheap stuff and if you are knocking around varminting you are going to ruin nice wood.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by SCJ429 » 27 Dec 2018, 9:15 am

knowsnothin wrote:
Islander7 wrote:This most probably will be my first, the only one, and last rifle...


Yes yes, of course it will be...

Also I recommend getting a high end second hand rifle.
Blaser, Mauser Steyr. Etc.
don’t discount their polymer offerings, they are far superior to the cheap stuff and if you are knocking around varminting you are going to ruin nice wood.


Famous last words....

I say that after just about every rifle I buy.... Last one, I have everything I need now.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Gaznazdiak » 27 Dec 2018, 9:27 am

Well unless you're a competitive grade shooter, most decent rifles will be far more capable than the average, casual shooter.

I'm not casting aspersions here Islander, I don't know you, but the above being the case why pay extra for what will most likely only be a psychological difference.
Why not go for a good mid range brand like a 24" Howa and put the extra dollars into a really good glass?

I'm only an average shooter, with shakes and wobbles from a brain injury and I have managed one hole groups at 100 with my Howa .223.

It always sounds good to go for "the best you can afford", but only if the extra money it costs you gets you a substantive measurably better result.
The again, some like to buy the most expensive they can manage because the price paid is the attraction.
Whatever bloats your goat Islander, and makes you happy with it. Have fun looking, buying a new gun is always exciting.
My 2 cents.
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Last edited by Gaznazdiak on 27 Dec 2018, 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Chappo » 27 Dec 2018, 9:33 am

Hey islander.
Mate I think this question is a very difficult one to answer and I don’t think I wanna recommend anything.
Have you had much experience with firearms?
I’m assuming you haven’t and your looking for the “one and only” and you wanna make sure your money is wisely spent and that’s fair enough.
Personally though I don’t know any shooters that own one rifle.
Like most people, I own a number of them and I have my likes and dislikes about each.
To me it would be impossible to find the perfect gun and even the most informed decisions are not as good as a chance to live with it for a while.
Your budget is pretty big and gunsmithing is a way of eliminating some of the dislikes you might have so maybe something custom built to your budget would be better for you?
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Stix » 27 Dec 2018, 9:55 am

TassieTiger wrote:I usually kind of frown on ppl simply recommending exactly what they have as it’s always a biased opinion-but I’m going to suggest a steyr varmint pro.
They are about $2400 and come with a set trigger / normal trigger and a 3 position safety, including a “storage” feature where the bolt handle pulls down really low as to not catch in safes or bags, etc. the set trigger is freaking amazing - can dial it to 100 grams of pull if you want. Or use normal trigger at adjustable and around 1kg.
They are a 1:9 twist so can take 70gn projectiles. Mine will shoot golf balls dead at insane distances for me (250m). The bolt and action are machined perfectly, like glass - maybe too slick at times.
The barrel is a semi heavy unit - can fire a good amount before it gets hot...is it a walker? Maybe a bit heavy but that’s why it’s soaccurate and can shoot multiples.
The spiral fluting on barrel is not to everyone’s liking but it’s different.
Steyr have a guarantee to shoot better than Moa with factory ammo, but mine is 1/4 to 1/2 with 24gns ar2206h with 55 hornady ballistic.

Yes, sako, tikka are regarded highly, but if your wanting something a little different...?
Ps - do not confuse this with a steyr pro hunter. Very different rifles and performance is not really comparable.


:wtf: ...?
Tassie...mate...really...???
Where would we be without people sharing their "biased"opinions of the firearms (or anything) they own...
Given they own them, the opinions are MOST often based on experience rather than hoohaa...& that is exactly the kind of recommendations we should want..doesnt mean we need to take them, but educated experienced based opinions are better than taking on board some third hand crap a clown dribbles. :thumbsup: :D
Ive found most people on here dont hold back with their opinions, particularly when it comes to poor quality or features they dont like/poor design etc, which is a really good thing, & equally as good as praising something we own, use & admire... :D :D :D :drinks:
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by bigrich » 27 Dec 2018, 10:08 am

well said stix, and i like chappos idea of a gunsmith custom build, but islander might not know what he's gunna like yet . A custom build model 70 winchester push feed in a boyd stock and a swan barrel would be ok by me . :D or get a older second hand sako and get it gunsmith smoothed if it needs it.

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Oldbloke » 27 Dec 2018, 10:10 am

Gaznazdiak wrote:Well unless you're a competitive grade shooter, most decent rifles will be far more capable than the average, casual shooter.

I'm not casting aspersions here Islander, I don't know you, but the above being the case why pay extra for what will most likely only be a psychological difference.
Why not go for a good mid range brand like a 24" Howa and put the extra dollars into a really good glass?

I'm only an average shooter, with shakes and wobbles from a brain injury and I have managed one hole groups at 100 with my Howa .223.

It always sounds good to go for "the best you can afford", but only if the extra money it costs you gets you a substantive measurably better result.
The again, some like to buy the most expensive they can manage because the price paid is the attraction.
Whatever bloats your goat Islander, and makes you happy with it. Have fun looking, buying a new gun is always exciting.
My 2 cents.
:drinks:


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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Stix » 27 Dec 2018, 10:22 am

I dont have much experience with "modern" rifles apart from Tikka's & Sako's....so im in no position to comment on experience with other brands of new rifles.

In my opinion, out of those 2 options, & given your budget & intended use, it would be Sako hands down. :clap:

I do a lot of--or should i say, 99% of my hunting (shooting fur) is done from a car, driving around late afternoon & with a spotlight..(foxes & bunnies).& for this i mostly use a Tikka T3.

Let me tell you, not being able to top load with the Tikka is becoming painful.
I didnt think it would be a problem, but the amount of times i chamber a round upon pulling up on a fox or titchy bunny, & then have to unload the firearm & remove the magazine to put round back in mag is an annoyance.
Then there is the occasional time you drop a round from all the magazine fiddling & it slips down the side of the seat, &/or you've had the door open & you're not sure if it landed in or out of the car & end up spending time looking for it... :crazy:
It may sound like im exagerating, but im sure those that do a lot of this type of shooting will vouch for what im saying.

With the Sako, it would be straight back in the top, hold the round down & slide the bolt forward for a safe empty chamber :thumbsup:

So top load through ejection port is, in my opinion, a very important feature for a varmint rifle if budget comfortably allows.

Aside from that other potential suggestions i could offer are...
i know a guy who has a Kimber (only a sporter barrel for a walk about hunting rifle, where you may want a heavy barrel)...with a Swarovski Z6i 3-18 a top...
Not only does it look the goods, but it delivers too--its a VERY nice outfit to handle. :thumbsup:

And, what about Cooper rifles...?
Does one of them fit within the budget...?

As has also been suggested, there is a custom build--you could buy a second hand rifle & drop it straight to a smith for re-barreling..

Let us know what you end up with & how it performs... :drinks:
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Islander7 » 27 Dec 2018, 10:48 am

So many answers in just a couple of hours, thanks guys for everyone's opinion!

TassieTiger, thanks, your description of Steyr sounds like what I'm after. I quickly checked Winchester website and see that they only come in synthetic stock. Unfortunatelly for me, I strongly dislike synthetic stocks, must me laminate, or wooden at least. But thanks for the suggestion anyway!

Bigrich, stainless laminated Tikka T3x is still not out of question, if I can't find anything 'better'.

SCJ429, buying second hand premium rifle with a 'test drive' was my initial plan, however here in Tassie it's an almost impossible task...

knowsnothin, I'm pretty confident that it will be first and last rifle, as I have millions of various hobbies, I tend to do deep research and then buy just one 'high end' thing that will last and it lasts for at least a decade or more for me (be it a telescope, kayak, boat, fishing gear, hi-fi audio etc), some of the things I expect to last a lifetime, like my kitchen knives. If I keep changing/upgrading stuff regularly, it will be very pricey :)

Gaznazdiak, thanks for the warm words, I know it's mostly psychological difference. But same can be said about everything else, like cars for example, some people are happy with toyotas, some want something 'better'.

Chappo wrote:Hey islander.
Have you had much experience with firearms?
I’m assuming you haven’t and your looking for the “one and only” and you wanna make sure your money is wisely spent and that’s fair enough.


You are assuming correctly, the only experience I have is with AK47 and some handguns in the army, zero experience with hunting and bolt rifles.

Looks like I'm still back to drawing board, with Sako85 and Tikka T3x...if only I could try out Sako before buying...
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Stoney » 27 Dec 2018, 11:05 am

Islander7 wrote:Bigrich, stainless laminated Tikka T3x is still not out of question, if I can't find anything 'better'.


Don't listen to bigrich he's a snob. If it's not a Winchester or Sako it couldn't possibly shoot. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I have both Steyr .308 and Tikka .233 and both shoot 3 shot clover groups@ 100, out of the box with the right factory ammo.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by albat » 27 Dec 2018, 11:08 am

forget the one rifle scenario, it just dont happen anyone on here will tell you that! .223? for a one trick pony?, theres better choices.
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Islander7 » 27 Dec 2018, 11:19 am

Stix wrote:Let me tell you, not being able to top load with the Tikka is becoming painful.
I didnt think it would be a problem, but the amount of times i chamber a round upon pulling up on a fox or titchy bunny, & then have to unload the firearm & remove the magazine to put round back in mag is an annoyance.
Then there is the occasional time you drop a round from all the magazine fiddling & it slips down the side of the seat, &/or you've had the door open & you're not sure if it landed in or out of the car & end up spending time looking for it... :crazy:
It may sound like im exagerating, but im sure those that do a lot of this type of shooting will vouch for what im saying.

With the Sako, it would be straight back in the top, hold the round down & slide the bolt forward for a safe empty chamber :thumbsup:

So top load through ejection port is, in my opinion, a very important feature for a varmint rifle if budget comfortably allows.


Thanks for sharing your opinion and experience, then its sako85 for me out of this two..

I others in my list that I'm currently researching are:
Kimber 84m
Anschutz 1771
Remington 700vls
Ruger 77 hawkeye predator
Lighgow la102 - crossed out due to latest recall...
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Member-Deleted » 27 Dec 2018, 11:22 am

G'day Islander mate I have a sako 85 s/s laminated stock although it's in 22-250 but that's nothing as the 223 would be built the same
I have a Zeiss 3x12-50 scope on it and it's the only thing I would change on the rifle mind you nothing wrong with it except when I shoot out further the X hair
is a little harder to use so i'd go with a scope with ballistic turrets or etched reticle for out there shots can't fault the 85 and she does a lot of work
the only problem with the rifle was the stock after having it for about 6-8 weeks the clear on the stock started peeling of in big flakes like 1'' flakes and today
is still peeling as sako and the dealership said it wasn't warranty and after 9years it's still the only fault with that rifle haven't heard of any others having that problem
so don't think you could go wrong with the 85 model sako other than a build to your spec's by a gunsmith
Mate you say you have used the AK47 in the army would it be rude of me to ask what army you were in although i'm sorry if it's a personal question
Cheers
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Islander7 » 27 Dec 2018, 11:26 am

albat wrote:forget the one rifle scenario, it just dont happen anyone on here will tell you that! .223? for a one trick pony?, theres better choices.


Rabbits and wallabies are all I'm ever going to shoot (on my 100+ acres property), and once a year culling a sheep. 223 is plenty for all that imo
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by bigrich » 27 Dec 2018, 11:26 am

Stoney wrote:
Islander7 wrote:Bigrich, stainless laminated Tikka T3x is still not out of question, if I can't find anything 'better'.


Don't listen to bigrich he's a snob. If it's not a Winchester or Sako it couldn't possibly shoot. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I have both Steyr .308 and Tikka .233 and both shoot 3 shot clover groups@ 100, out of the box with the right factory ammo.


umm, i actually did suggest the tikka to him mate, based on what i've seen of rifles like your tikka and others, but he's not keen on the poly mag :thumbsup:
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by bigrich » 27 Dec 2018, 11:27 am

bigrich wrote:if it was me go the sako 85. or find a second hand 75. thinking out of the box , what about the kimber ? mauser style action, come in a variety of bedded stocks . supposed to be a good thing ? maybe a higher grade weatherby than the vangaurd . they have a good reputation for accuracy and don't have a lot of plastic in them . you said you don't like plastic mags, that rules a lot of rifles out, including the stainless laminate tikka t3 which would be my choice at the bottom end of price

:drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:


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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by bigrich » 27 Dec 2018, 11:30 am

Islander7 wrote:
Stix wrote:Let me tell you, not being able to top load with the Tikka is becoming painful.
I didnt think it would be a problem, but the amount of times i chamber a round upon pulling up on a fox or titchy bunny, & then have to unload the firearm & remove the magazine to put round back in mag is an annoyance.
Then there is the occasional time you drop a round from all the magazine fiddling & it slips down the side of the seat, &/or you've had the door open & you're not sure if it landed in or out of the car & end up spending time looking for it... :crazy:
It may sound like im exagerating, but im sure those that do a lot of this type of shooting will vouch for what im saying.

With the Sako, it would be straight back in the top, hold the round down & slide the bolt forward for a safe empty chamber :thumbsup:

So top load through ejection port is, in my opinion, a very important feature for a varmint rifle if budget comfortably allows.


Thanks for sharing your opinion and experience, then its sako85 for me out of this two..

I others in my list that I'm currently researching are:
Kimber 84m
Anschutz 1771
Remington 700vls
Ruger 77 hawkeye predator
Lighgow la102 - crossed out due to latest recall...


out of your list the kimber would do me :drinks: :drinks: :thumbsup:
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Re: Help me to choose best rifle in .223

Post by Islander7 » 27 Dec 2018, 11:39 am

Mate you say you have used the AK47 in the army would it be rude of me to ask what army you were in although i'm sorry if it's a personal question
Cheers


No problems here, it was Ukrainian army in late 90s (everything still was Soviet Union style back then in the army). It was compulsory and that probably was the reason why I hated it :)
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