Help me to choose best rifle in .223

[bladeracer]

Now I'm totally confused about what I need / want. .223 was the caliber a guy in local gunshop recommended for my needs, plus my search online for 'best caliber for a farm' confirmed that .223 is very universal and a good candidate - Not too powerful for rabbits if headshot, not too weak for sheep etc. Now I feel completely lost.

Not sure about sheep shooting distance. I had butchering experience before, but not shooting. Just bought a farm recently, not sure yet how close they will let me come by.

Earlier bigrich and albat mention .222 and 17hmr... I also see that there are 22lr, 22wmr... How all these compare for my needs?

Sorry for noob questions.

You don't shoot animals while they're out with their mates, you yard them first for a night to quiet them down, then feed them through a race individually, and dispatch them in isolation. A subsonic .22LR into the head at contact range is the most humane method.

It's worth noting that you can only kill your animals for your own use. If you want to sell the meat they need to be killed by a registered abattoir.

[Islander7]

You don't shoot animals while they're out with their mates, you yard them first for a night to quiet them down, then feed them through a race individually, and dispatch them in isolation. A subsonic .22LR into the head at contact range is the most humane method.

It's worth noting that you can only kill your animals for your own use. If you want to sell the meat they need to be killed by a registered abattoir.

Thanks mate, it's clearer now. Yes, it's only for my own consumprion

[Gaznazdiak]

I don't know your background Islander, but for sheep culling a.22 hollow point longditudally into their skull where their first cervical vertebra joins is more than adequate.

As Sawyers question suggests, unless you are doing it at a safe, reasonable distance, a .223 projectile is dangerous overkill for that job.

Even at 100m a .223 will explode a sheep's skull. At contact or near contact range you are just being unnecessarily messy and unsafe, particularly if the culling is in a constrained environment like yards.

Now I'm totally confused about what I need / want. .223 was the caliber a guy in local gunshop recommended for my needs, plus my search online for 'best caliber for a farm' confirmed that .223 is very universal and a good candidate - Not too powerful for rabbits if headshot, not too weak for sheep etc. Now I feel completely lost.

Not sure about sheep shooting distance. I had butchering experience before, but not shooting. Just bought a farm recently, not sure yet how close they will let me come by.

Earlier bigrich and albat mention .222 and 17hmr... I also see that there are 22lr, 22wmr... How all these compare for my needs?

Sorry for noob questions.

Never apologize for seeking knowledge, Islander, knowledge is safer than ignorance, so you are doing the right thing.

As far as the gun shop reccomendation of the .223 as a good all round calibre for a farm, yes, definitely.

When you said culling, I think I had the wrong context. I think you may mean 1 or 2 for personal consumption, not putting down a mob that can't be fed or sold.

If you were only killing them to eat, then the .223, fired from a distance at which you are assured accurate placement as well as safety, would be suitable for that as well.

It can sound confusing, but by asking people who shoot, some every day, you should make less mistakes, as before, good luck and enjoy your new rifle whatever it turns out to be.

[Islander7]

...

Thanks mate - much appreciate all the advice I'm getting here!
English isn't my first language - yes I'm going to kill 2-3 sheep a year for my own consumption.

In relation to .223 for the use on rabbits (some for consumption as well) will it be ok if headshot, or it's overpowered and meat will be wasted?

I'm open to suggestion and happy to go rimfire route if that's sufficient enough for my needs, however I'm concerned it's going to be underpowered (want to shoot them within at least 120-150m).

Is there any rimfire caliber out there that is similar to 22 but effective over longer distances?
Thanks again!

[in2anity]

You cull sheep with a 22lr just sayin. Awful job it is

[in2anity]

+1 for the mini action, medium profile barrel you see, yet compact. And get a nice high-comb or adjustable stock.

[bladeracer]

Thanks mate - much appreciate all the advice I'm getting here!
English isn't my first language - yes I'm going to kill 2-3 sheep a year for my own consumption.

In relation to .223 for the use on rabbits (some for consumption as well) will it be ok if headshot, or it's overpowered and meat will be wasted?

I'm open to suggestion and happy to go rimfire route if that's sufficient enough for my needs, however I'm concerned it's going to be underpowered (want to shoot them within at least 120-150m).

Is there any rimfire caliber out there that is similar to 22 but effective over longer distances?
Thanks again!

High-velocity rifles are okay for rabbits if you can head-shoot them, or use FMJ bullets into the chest or head. Out to 150m really doesn't need anything more than .22WMR, .17,HMR or the .22Hornet. For rabbits and foxes you want accuracy over terminal performance. I would not recommend shooting rabbits with .22LR past about 70m or so as the bullet has limited hydrostatic effect. With a .223 if you are off and hit the nose you'll still have a clean kill, with a .22LR you'll simply have a maimed rabbit that'll run down a hole to die.

I would strongly recommend getting a .22LR regardless though, it is far and away the best bang-for-buck for learning to shoot well. You can learn everything you need to with a .22LR for very little cost and very little noise. It's also a terrific way to spend an afternoon, laying in a field shooting paper, or steel, or cans. It all translates to the centrefire so all your shooting benefits from time spent on the .22. It will also be a much better choice for dispatching a domestic meat animal.

Are you looking to load your own ammo for the centrefire? If you are, then you can get a .223, .204, .243 or anything else in that range, and load them to suit your specific purposes - right down to subsonic .22LR equivalents. But with full-power factory loads I think even the .223 is more than you'd want just for shooting the occasional sheep, fox, cat or rabbit. You might want to look at the .17HMR for those purposes. From what I've seen of them they tend to be more accurate than most WMR's or Hornets.

I think all farms should have a .22LR and 12ga. shotgun by default. See if you can find a nice secondhand Brno Model 2 for the .22LR. I doubt anybody ever regretted buying a Model 2.

[Gaznazdiak]

Islander, mate, it sounds to me like you would be better suited with the .17 Winchester Super Magnum

It's a rimfire, but it's the Terminator of rimfires.
I never tire of showing people this pic because it still amazes me.
I accidentally hit the side of the sheep yards with my WSM from 65m, that's 2 layers of 3mm steel.

20160906_170531.jpg (1.89 MiB) Viewed 7362 times

From memory (that is chemically impaired at the moment) the rabbit below was 100 or 120m, round entered under the left ear.

Webp.net-resizeimage a.jpg (556.66 KiB) Viewed 7362 times

If the biggest non-sheep you are likely to be shooting at is a rabbit, I would give serious consideration to the WSM, it would have no trouble terminating a sheep with a headshot, and as you would not be reloading anyway, probably only half to two thirds the ammo price.

[Gaznazdiak]

Just to give you a perspective of the difference between the .17WSM on the left and the .22 on the right

[TassieTiger]

...

Thanks mate - much appreciate all the advice I'm getting here!
English isn't my first language - yes I'm going to kill 2-3 sheep a year for my own consumption.

In relation to .223 for the use on rabbits (some for consumption as well) will it be ok if headshot, or it's overpowered and meat will be wasted?

I'm open to suggestion and happy to go rimfire route if that's sufficient enough for my needs, however I'm concerned it's going to be underpowered (want to shoot them within at least 120-150m).

Is there any rimfire caliber out there that is similar to 22 but effective over longer distances?
Thanks again!

You can probably appreciate now whilst a few ppl early on have said - buy a very large safe - because shooting multiple / different guns is not only fun, you can tailor a rifle to specific needs...
You want to distance shoot some bunnies for dinner? - grab the .17wsm.
You want to spotlight out a warren? Grab the .22lr with subs or 12g.
You have seen a few wallaby at distance? Take the .223.
You want to knock over a few sheep ? Grab some high velocity 22lr’s.

And then there is the pesky dinosaurs getting around occasionally - well, the 338 lapua is just asking to be taken for a run...

[SCJ429]

[quote="Gaznazdiak

In relation to .223 for the use on rabbits (some for consumption as well) will it be ok if headshot, or it's overpowered and meat will be wasted?

I'm open to suggestion and happy to go rimfire route if that's sufficient enough for my needs, however I'm concerned it's going to be underpowered (want to shoot them within at least 120-150m).

Is there any rimfire caliber out there that is similar to 22 but effective over longer distances?
Thanks again!

You can get a rimfire 22 Magnum or 17, they can be effective out to 150 metres or even a little further but the ammo is expensive. You could reload a 223 for less money. You can also load a 223 to shoot subsonic if needed, the 223 can do everything and more that those rimfires can do.

[Oatesy]

schultz and larsen make some nice rifles, they might be worth a look aswell

[Islander7]

Gaznazdiak, the biggest non-sheep will be wallaby or forester (eastern grey) kangaroo. Will 17wsm be fine for that, if I do my bit? (I'm after for as humane kill as possible, don't want them to suffer).

Tassie, too late mate, already bought a small 4 gun safe (that will fit max 2 guns I believe)

Also, bladeracer mentioned .22 hornet. Being centrefire calibre is much different from .223? Worth considering at all?

Not going to reload, only factoey-made ammo. Cost of ammo is least of my concerns at this stage

Thanks everyone, heading to the 'Rimfire' section of the forum to do further research then

[TassieTiger]

I don’t think you can go wrong with any of your shortlisted.
Given your budget and accuracy wants - have you given thought to optics as yet? Because if you end up with a rifle that you absolutely love but the optics are not up to the task, your going to become very frustrated and very disappointed...

I had a quick look, but no, I haven't thought much of which scope to get yet. Happy to pay around $1k for it (or can easily stretch to $1.5k if needed), but not willing to pay more than that. Will have to do some research obviously.

You could do a lot worse than this as a first scope for what ever rifle you are looking at...
https://m.usedguns.com.au/Product_Desc.aspx?Pid=140861

I have vx2 and vx3 in 6/18 and 6.5/20 and there is nothing between them for general use. Crystal clear, simple and fine reticle and a no questions asked lifetime warranty...I’d offer a little less than their asking price and see how you go, they aren’t making this model scope any longer. If you bought it and ever had a warranty claim that they couldn’t fix, I’d imagine your getting a new model equivalent replacement...which would be $14-1500

[Harrynsw]

Gaznazdiak, the biggest non-sheep will be wallaby or forester (eastern grey) kangaroo. Will 17wsm be fine for that, if I do my bit? (I'm after for as humane kill as possible, don't want them to strugle).

Tassie, too late mate, already bought a small 4 gun safe (that will fit max 2 guns I believe)

If you remove the bolts you will fit 4 in there. Very snug but you'll make it.

[Gaznazdiak]

Gaznazdiak, the biggest non-sheep will be wallaby or forester (eastern grey) kangaroo. Will 17wsm be fine for that, if I do my bit? (I'm after for as humane kill as possible, don't want them to strugle).

Tassie, too late mate, already bought a small 4 gun safe (that will fit max 2 guns I believe)

Also, bladeracer mentioned .22 hornet. Being centrefire calibre is much different from .223? Worth considering at all?

Not going to reload, only factoey-made ammo. Cost of ammo is least of my concerns at this stage

Thanks everyone, heading to the 'Rimfire' section of the forum to do further research then

Well Islander, in the hands of a very experienced shooter, at less than 125m, head shot, yes the WSM would kill a wallaby
I wouldn't, and I believe there is a mandated minimum. I would use a .223 on anything over the size of a fox, in a hunting context.

So it seems we're back to the .223 after all.

It is a very versatile calibre.
If that's the way you go, 55gn Buffalo River soft point ammunition is Australian made and great value, also worth remembering.

[Islander7]

Thanks Gaznazdiak,

The regulation allows the use of rimfire on tassie wallabies (but not roos), although for shorter distances

What about 22 hornet, I did a quick search, looks like it's a centrefire, should suit wallabies better and at the same time with quieter shot?

[Gaznazdiak]

.22 Hornets are centerfire and a very good round but I believe ammo is very pricey.
I'm fairly certain that due to the differences in demand, factory .223 is cheaper than Hornets.
If that wasn't an issue then yes a Hornet would be excellent
Particularly if you get one of the rifle/shotgun combination as below:

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product ... 6387059.do

[Islander7]

Quickly checked the prices, looks like .223 costs on average about $1-1.5 per shot, with 22 hornet being about $1.5-2. cost difference isn't critical for me for what I'm going to do, so that's ok of it better suits my needs.

Sorry for keeping bombarding you with questions, but what about .204 ruger caliber?

I still may end up buying .223 after all, but want to investigate all possible options.

[SCJ429]

The 22 Hornet is a fun little centerfire case for the guy who already has a 223 and reloads his own ammo. It shoots like a 223 with a half filled case of 2206H. If you don't want a 223 then get a 222. Accurate, economical and versatile just what a new shooter needs.

You have a four gun safe, the first two should be a 22lr and a 223. Then you can start looking at some other fun calibers, I hear a 300 RUM is dynamite on game commonly found in Tasmania.

[marksman]

The 22 Hornet is a fun little centerfire case for the guy who already has a 223 and reloads his own ammo. It shoots like a 223 with a half filled case of 2206H. If you don't want a 223 then get a 222. Accurate, economical and versatile just what a new shooter needs.

You have a four gun safe, the first two should be a 22lr and a 223. Then you can start looking at some other fun calibers, I hear a 300 RUM is dynamite on game commonly found in Tasmania.

was thinking the same

also Gaz have you ever shot roo's or wallabie's with a 17 cal
I have and have seen them get back up after an explosive vmax shot to the side of the head with the frangible projectiles
better to take the advise given above the 300 RUM is amazing

[bigfellascott]

Mate just get the 223, it will suit your needs well and you have a large range of factory ammo offerings to chose from so will find something it will shoot well. It will sort the sheep out fine if you have to shoot them in the paddock, it will take the rabbits heads off fine too, you will have some meat damage up front but that's not a bit deal as theres SFA to eat in the way of meat up front anyway (I generally just use the backstraps an back legs as a rule.

As for brands doesn't really matter too much, with the way rifle manufacturing is these days they all shoot well and all you are paying for with the more expensive offerings is fit and finish which is of a higher standard compared to the cheaper offerings.

I would also say get a 22 and learn how to shoot properly with that first (paper targets etc that way you won't be causing too much pain and suffering when you finally do get into harvesting your own food, if you have someone that can show you the ropes on how to shoot properly that will go a long way into achieving that outcome.

Good Luck

[deanp100]

As above. There are all sorts of opinions here, sensible or otherwise. This is getting overly complicated. If you just get a 223 it will be the only gun you need and will work. If you get a plain old 22lr as well, I think you will find you use it more than the 223. Nearly every farmer in history used to just carry an old 22 in the ute. It does everything farm related.

[bigrich]

Mate just get the 223, it will suit your needs well and you have a large range of factory ammo offerings to chose from so will find something it will shoot well. It will sort the sheep out fine if you have to shoot them in the paddock, it will take the rabbits heads off fine too, you will have some meat damage up front but that's not a bit deal as theres SFA to eat in the way of meat up front anyway (I generally just use the backstraps an back legs as a rule.

As for brands doesn't really matter too much, with the way rifle manufacturing is these days they all shoot well and all you are paying for with the more expensive offerings is fit and finish which is of a higher standard compared to the cheaper offerings.

I would also say get a 22 and learn how to shoot properly with that first (paper targets etc that way you won't be causing too much pain and suffering when you finally do get into harvesting your own food, if you have someone that can show you the ropes on how to shoot properly that will go a long way into achieving that outcome.

Good Luck

this is probably the bottom line and best advice IMHO there is so much choice out there it's nuts. every person on here has a slightly different opinion ,sort out your shortlist islander, and go to a gun shop and shoulder and handle some of your choices to see what fits for you . my choice would be a cz 452 american in 22lr , and a tikka s/s laminate in 223 . or the anshutz in 222 , or.........

[Gaznazdiak]

The 22 Hornet is a fun little centerfire case for the guy who already has a 223 and reloads his own ammo. It shoots like a 223 with a half filled case of 2206H. If you don't want a 223 then get a 222. Accurate, economical and versatile just what a new shooter needs.

You have a four gun safe, the first two should be a 22lr and a 223. Then you can start looking at some other fun calibers, I hear a 300 RUM is dynamite on game commonly found in Tasmania.

was thinking the same

also Gaz have you ever shot roo's or wallabie's with a 17 cal
I have and have seen them get back up after an explosive vmax shot to the side of the head with the frangible projectiles
better to take the advise given above the 300 RUM is amazing

Yes Marksman, I have seen a roo shot with a .17, and as I said to Islander, in the hands of a very proficient shooter at very close range perhaps, but I also stated that I would not try it.

Something nobody seems to have yet asked, at least I haven't:
Islander, how big is the farm on which you are planning to use your new rifle?

That might be your limiting factor.
A .223 is not going to be welcomed by the neighbours on a 5 acre block.

[Islander7]

Thanks again everyone,

After sleepless night (educating myself about various calibers etc) I came down to these four now:
- .22wmr (just for the sake of larger range over .22lr, but almost as quiet and cheap)
- 22 hornet (looks like it's enough for my needs and much quieter than .223, which is always good, not to annoy other landowners much)
- .222 (I read somewhere it's more accurate than .223?) Or .223 (if .222 isn't worth to bother with)

I know all three are very different beasts, I'm really not sure what to do. Also I measured some distances on my property this morning, looks like I'm fine to have most kills within 100m range (can't see much further anyway, due to terrain, only few spots on my property offer longer range, I can ignore them for now)..

Seriously considering just buying .22wmr now and learn/practice and see what it can do for me (maybe that will be all I ever need?) and then upgrade to centerfire (or get one in addition) if required...

But then again, maybe I should just get 22 hornet now and it will match my requirements perfectly without too much noise and without destroying small game much?

[Islander7]

Something nobody seems to have yet asked, at least I haven't:
Islander, how big is the farm on which you are planning to use your new rifle?

That might be your limiting factor.
A .223 is not going to be welcomed by the neighbours on a 5 acre block.

It's a 100+ acres block, however the shape and terrain of it means that I will be 'hunting' mostly on 25acres, in the area that is about 350-400m to neighbouring houses. .223 Noise is not big issue, however if I can keep it down, it would be great for everybody..

[PaddyT]

Just get a 22lr and a 223- the 22 lr will allow you to fire a gazillion rounds as practice very cheaply and do your close range sheep cullingand whack any rabbit within 70M. Split your budget to two rifles, cant go wrong- Lithgow LA101 or CZ for the 22lr and then any number of mid range 223's Tikka, Lithgow (i would regard their recall as being a plus not a minus, it shows that they give a stuff about thier product), the new Mausers look very good for the dollar.

[Islander7]

Lithgow (i would regard their recall as being a plus not a minus, it shows that they give a stuff about thier product)

Offtopic, but just yesterday OzzieReviews made a review about re-barrelled Lithgow, he isn't happy. Also read some of the comments - many unhappy customers etc https://youtu.be/0blmzt0AE2s
With so much other choices around, I'm affraid I have to cross it out of my list permanently (but that's just me)

[Gaznazdiak]

Something nobody seems to have yet asked, at least I haven't:
Islander, how big is the farm on which you are planning to use your new rifle?

That might be your limiting factor.
A .223 is not going to be welcomed by the neighbours on a 5 acre block.

It's a 100+ acres block, however the shape and terrain of it means that I will be 'hunting' mostly on 25acres, in the area that is about 350-400m to neighbouring houses. .223 Noise is not big issue, however if I can keep it down, it would be great for everybody..

100 acres is not too small for a .223, but with your neighbours under 400m away, please bear in mind that some of us hunt with the .223 at that range and longer, I don't want to kick sand in your dinner, but remember also that the 5.56mm round was designed to bring down a human out to 600m, so we are talking serious terminal ballistics from that small projectile.
All things to consider. And safety can't be overthought.
Except in the case of bloody onion rings at Bunnings.