Safe audit WA

Questions about Western Australian gun and ammunition laws. W.A. Firearms Act 1973.

Re: audit

Post by TassieTiger » 03 Jan 2019, 1:18 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:
Gaznazdiak wrote:I don't know if this is legit or not, perhaps someone can enlighten me.

I was talking to my niece today, she's not a shooter but her boyfriend is and has a number of firearms.
She said the police were around to check him over again just recently and told them they no longer need to make a suitable time nor give any notice.
The officers inspecting just lobbed, said welcome to the new policy, open up.

This is NSW, anyone know if there has been a change from mutual convenience?



It seems I did have the bull by the balls here.
I think if it keeps happening I should maybe buy him dinner. :oops:

I actually got to speak to my niece's boyfriend in person today, and my niece had got it mixed up. But not the way I thought.
According to her boyfriend, the cops said it was the last time they would be doing the inspections as they were being discontinued as costing too much with no productivity outcomes.

I can't be bothered spending 3 weeks of my life waiting on hold to ask NSW FAR if this is the case, anyone heard this?
Sounds highly unlikely to me, but there's no reason for him to blow smoke up me.


I rang Tas police when I put my 3rd safe in and asked when they’d like to inspect it - they said similar. When we get time - or never. We know you have done first two correctly and we just don’t have time to come out - so the answer is “sporadic inspections” going forward...but they did say they will give plenty of notice and you can decline first offering, if it does not suit...
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Re: audit

Post by duncan61 » 03 Jan 2019, 1:36 pm

$101 at Bunnings scored me a safe that will hold all my live ammo going to bolt it in now and spend the rest of the day making .243 and preparing Hornet cases
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Re: audit

Post by 1Fatman » 03 Jan 2019, 1:40 pm

duncan61 wrote:Still did not pass.Gun safe fine but live ammo must be stored as per firearms in separate safe a big one from bunnings will do.Ammo reloading components are not considered live ammo and powder must be stored in locked container


Powder must be stored in a wooden box made of 19mm plywood or hardwood, lockable with brass hinges.
Screws or bolts on the inside need to be filed flat, the box has to be painted in a light colour with the correct stickers placed on it.
It also must be able to be carried in the event of a fire etc.

Not what you would call real secure.
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Re: audit

Post by Oldbloke » 03 Jan 2019, 3:31 pm

Although ammo is not considered particularly dangerous on its own I have noticed ( I think) in each state a conflict within the regulations regarding the storage of ammo, powders, primers.

From a dangerous goods point of view you would want to store all of them in a very lightly build wooden box or a lightly built metal container that is earthed. Wood doesnt create or retain static and you shouldn't confine an an explosion as it just increases the damage.

YET, that is a contradiction to what the government wants. Put it in a very strong metal container and no requirement to earth.. DOH

If you were in a work place the first scinerio wooden boxes the norm..

Best option would be locked 3 or 4 ply box stored in a locked shed or room..
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Re: audit

Post by Daddybang » 03 Jan 2019, 4:33 pm

duncan61 wrote:.Ammo reloading components are not considered live ammo and powder must be stored in locked container


Obviously the copper in question has never read sec 4 of the Firearms Act 1973 (western Australia) that states "for the purpose of the act ammunition includes ALL components used in the manufacture of ammunition " :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: audit

Post by bladeracer » 03 Jan 2019, 5:04 pm

duncan61 wrote:Still did not pass.Gun safe fine but live ammo must be stored as per firearms in separate safe a big one from bunnings will do.Ammo reloading components are not considered live ammo and powder must be stored in locked container


Not correct. WA considers any components of ammunition to be ammunition. Secure storage for empty brass and bullets is exactly the same as for live ammo.
How did they even notice your ammo - wasn't it locked up out of sight?
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Re: audit

Post by duncan61 » 03 Jan 2019, 6:03 pm

bullet safe.jpg
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I wished to do a full walk through and get it right.I was reloading when they showed up and had everything open.I have bolted a small safe from Bunnings in the laundry under a shelf set and they have accepted pictures of that as job complete.The powder in wooden box sounds like a good idea my reloading stuff is currently in a big solid metal box in an outside shed with its own padlock and they were fine with that.My example of brass was my case cleaning tumbler was going and do I have to empty it and store the brass when not home? and the answer was no its fine.I lock up primers powder and projectiles because it makes sense.Once again the police had opportunity to seize my ammo and charge me but elected to give me time to sort it out which I have done.A good learning curve all round.My final question was what to do with old dirty rusty shot shells as there was a tin box with about 20 very corroded shot shells in all the gear I recovered from the workshop.My mate had probably had them from 1978 when he was shooting in Queensland and bought the Hornet and ,243 BRNO new.No real answer for that I got hand them in to a police station shoot them sell them to a dealer.I suggested burying them and that was not a good idea.I will have a better look at them soon and maybe shoot them off at the block and throw the empty cases in the fire.It was no hardship to do this and I am pleased with the outcome
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Re: audit

Post by 1Fatman » 03 Jan 2019, 6:55 pm

Just remember to build the box to the correct specs or you will be in the crap with them and the Department of Mines and Petroleum.
Here is the link showing what you need.

http://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/Documents/Dang ... Owners.pdf
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Re: audit

Post by bladeracer » 03 Jan 2019, 6:57 pm

1Fatman wrote:Just remember to build the box to the correct specs or you will be in the crap with them and the Department of Mines and Petroleum.
Here is the link showing what you need.

http://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/Documents/Dang ... Owners.pdf


The only reason you would have any problem with DoM&P is if somebody made a complaint.
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Re: audit

Post by 1Fatman » 03 Jan 2019, 7:01 pm

bladeracer wrote:[quote=

The only reason you would have any problem with DoM&P is if somebody made a complaint.



The storage and transport of powder falls under the DMP, the boys in blue will pass on the defect details to them if you are found to not be storing it correctly.
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Re: audit

Post by bladeracer » 03 Jan 2019, 7:04 pm

1Fatman wrote:
bladeracer wrote:[quote=

The only reason you would have any problem with DoM&P is if somebody made a complaint.



The storage and transport of powder falls under the DMP, the boys in blue will pass on the defect details to them if you are found to not be storing it correctly.


True, but they can only do that if you are clearly not securing it at all. If it's in a cabinet out of sight they wouldn't know either way.
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Re: audit

Post by duncan61 » 03 Jan 2019, 7:14 pm

Thank you for that link.The last bit gives the exempt amount and I would not go close to 5 Kg of propellant at any time let alone 15 Kg so no problem.I have a 4 kg tub of 2208 that is more than half gone and when I need more 2213sc I will get 500g.I had a bit more in stock than I thought enough to make 24 target rounds for the 7mm to test the 168 Bergers.I have decided after sorting all my gear today that I do not need the volumes I had when pro shooting and am going to run down to 100x.222 150x.243 and 150x 7mm as I have case storage for that amount and it fits in the ammo safe.I have a few thousand .22LR and they fit in the gunsafe top box and the Hornet ammo will end up at the safe where the hornet is.First day at the range we can use the 80gn rounds we have in stock and then get better later.Its going to be a good year
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Re: audit

Post by zhuk » 03 Jan 2019, 8:03 pm

dpskipper wrote:
PaddyT wrote:Yeah we can blame them , they do have the power to issue a breach and then take away our firearms, so hell yeah they should be attentive and follow procedure- infact they should have a std operating procedure then its no mystery to an owner as to what they will be checking!


Most cops don't care about guns. Heck they can't even use their sidearm effectively. As much as we'd love them to have an understanding of the pillars of gun safety and not rolling their eyes when we clear each gun in front of them, those wishes aren't realistic i think.




All of the above (and I've watched them in training)

Many are either indifferent (which is fine) or antagionistic towards the idea of civilian ownership. And inspections being such a miniscule part of their duties, maybe we shouldn't be surprised that they don't know know the law like we do :huh:

The only inspection I've had (which I requested) in 2010 one guy tried to say my metal keylocked ammo cabinet wasn't compliant, cause it wasn't a bolted down safe...so there you go lol
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Re: audit

Post by duncan61 » 03 Jan 2019, 8:31 pm

My main man is a Senior constable Investigation and compliance Officer Licensing Compliance unit and the first chap he came with was with securities that check porn brokers and security companies for compliance as well as firearms and the woman who was with him today seemed to be the full bottle on firearm requirements possibly a civilian.I would like to think the people ensuring compliance have some experiance.The only check list I saw was just to tick of the rifle serial numbers
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Re: audit

Post by Sawyers » 03 Jan 2019, 10:42 pm

duncan61 wrote:Still did not pass.Gun safe fine but live ammo must be stored as per firearms in separate safe a big one from bunnings will do.Ammo reloading components are not considered live ammo and powder must be stored in locked container

This is what confuses me, do I have to store ammunition separately if its for a different calibre than the fireams it's stored with.
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Re: audit

Post by duncan61 » 03 Jan 2019, 10:59 pm

To the best of my new learned knowledge
.firearms in approved gun safe with or without bolts and magazines levers are ready to rock
.Ammo in lock box in same safe but advised against pick the weevils out of that one
.ammo in separate safe gun safe approved or in my case a safe from bunnings
.reloading components in separate lockable container brass can be in polisher
bottom line it is very unclear as there is government acts to interpret the firearms regulations to decipher then Wapol have their own statements on storage and none are the same so a good lawyer could get you of anything and make the victims family pay to remove the blood from your clothing
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Re: audit

Post by duncan61 » 03 Jan 2019, 11:20 pm

this is from the regulations
11A. Storage security requirements (Sch. 4)
(1) A person entitled to possess firearms or ammunition of any kind
is to ensure that the firearms or ammunition are stored in
accordance with this regulation.
(2) Firearms and ammunition are to be stored in a locked cabinet or
container that at least meets the specifications described in
Schedule 4 or in such other way as is approved.
(3A) Subregulation (2) does not apply to propellant unless it is
incorporated in a cartridge.
(3) A cabinet or container that can be unlocked with a key is to be
regarded as unlocked if the key is left in the lock or is otherwise
accessible where the cabinet or container is located.
[(4)-(6) deleted]
(7) A magazine is not to contain any ammunition when it is stored.
(8) Ammunition is not to be stored in a cabinet or container in
which a firearm is stored unless the ammunition is in another
locked metal container in which no firearm is stored and which
is securely affixed so as to prevent its removal from the cabinet
or container.
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Re: audit

Post by ponkychonk » 04 Jan 2019, 11:23 am

Hi Duncan, also look at Pages 114-116 of the Firearms Regs, they provide the specific rules as to the construction/anchoring/etc for the specific safe.
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Re: audit

Post by duncan61 » 04 Jan 2019, 11:49 am

There coming back again now.But its all good
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Re: audit

Post by pomemax » 04 Jan 2019, 2:50 pm

I just had my first ever safe inspection .30 min all done and dusted I didnt even know he was comming over no dramas at all . He did not even want to check the numbers cause its so organized just done a count to make sure i didn,t have any more or less than should have . Spoke for about 10 -15 min about collecting .
Last edited by pomemax on 04 Jan 2019, 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: audit

Post by Oldbloke » 04 Jan 2019, 2:57 pm

duncan61 wrote:There coming back again now.But its all good


Sounds to me they have been very accommodating.
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Re: audit

Post by TassieTiger » 04 Jan 2019, 3:06 pm

Ask if you can hold the officers side arm...after all, he gets to hold yours lol
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Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
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Marlin SBL 45/70
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Re: audit

Post by bladeracer » 04 Jan 2019, 4:30 pm

Sawyers wrote:This is what confuses me, do I have to store ammunition separately if its for a different calibre than the fireams it's stored with.


You cannot store _any_ ammo with a firearm, whether it fits that firearm or not.
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Re: audit

Post by bladeracer » 04 Jan 2019, 4:33 pm

duncan61 wrote:To the best of my new learned knowledge
.firearms in approved gun safe with or without bolts and magazines levers are ready to rock
.Ammo in lock box in same safe but advised against pick the weevils out of that one
.ammo in separate safe gun safe approved or in my case a safe from bunnings
.reloading components in separate lockable container brass can be in polisher
bottom line it is very unclear as there is government acts to interpret the firearms regulations to decipher then Wapol have their own statements on storage and none are the same so a good lawyer could get you of anything and make the victims family pay to remove the blood from your clothing


Some states allow storing ammo in the bolt box inside the safe, but most don't. In Victoria it is illegal but allowed by Commissioner's approval, which means they can decide one day that it's no longer allowed. Better to store the ammo elsewhere.

If you have brass in a tumbler you would probably just state that it's "being used" and thus does not need to be in storage. You can't store it openly on the bench.
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Re: audit

Post by duncan61 » 05 Jan 2019, 12:19 pm

It's all done they tried to open the ammo safe but it was locked bit sneaky.I asked them to leave the area while I did the combination
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