Howa 6.5creed

[Bill]

How fast can a CM sling a 143 ELDX?

Mate I don’t chrono anything however from the loading tables I expect that I am getting just under 2700fps out of them, so about the same or a tiny bit quicker thank the Swede with a couple of grains less powder.

quicker than a swede lol Ive owned 3 and all did well over 2700fps with a 140gr.

my last 260rem with a 21inch tube safely pushed 140gr Lapua's to 2840fps, now thats bit more than the Creedmore gets.

there is no such thing as a free lunch with the creedmore...ya gunna either need a long tube (heavier) or really push the PSI to keep up with the 260 and 6.5 swede.

[Bill]

Just forget about all the 6.5’s and get a 7x57 . If I had my time again I would get a quality rifle in this caliber . In a modern rifle it can exceed in accuracy and as a hunting round over a lot of the modern rounds. JMHO

slick feeding and the ability to shoot 120-195gr, I suspect your probably right.

[SCJ429]

Creedmoor143ELDX123Scenar.jpg

I'm curious why you're chasing velocity - for what purpose?[/quote]

I like to push a case a little to exploit its potential, better ballistics, less wind drift, better terminal performance. I wouldn't buy a 22/250 and then shoot it at 223 speeds. People have been chasing speed since Adam was a boy. But I am sure I am not telling an experienced bloke like you anything you don't already know.

[Flyer]

I think it's worth mentioning the small primer Lapua cases are thick with lots of metal around the primer pockets and some long-range competition shooters are pushing the Creedmoor up to and over 64,000psi. I don't want a barrel burner, but I wouldn't mind a hunting load with a bit of "oomph". I bought the 6.5CM to replace a 243 because I figured the 6.5 could do everything the 243 could do with similar recoil, longer barrel life and also encroach into 308 territory in terms of downrange energy. I wanted a mid-ranged centrefire that could "do everything". I don't think there's anything a 6.5 couldn't account for in the Aussie bush.

[bigrich]

How fast can a CM sling a 143 ELDX?

Mate I don’t chrono anything however from the loading tables I expect that I am getting just under 2700fps out of them, so about the same or a tiny bit quicker thank the Swede with a couple of grains less powder.

quicker than a swede lol Ive owned 3 and all did well over 2700fps with a 140gr.

my last 260rem with a 21inch tube safely pushed 140gr Lapua's to 2840fps, now thats bit more than the Creedmore gets.

there is no such thing as a free lunch with the creedmore...ya gunna either need a long tube (heavier) or really push the PSI to keep up with the 260 and 6.5 swede.

i played with my winchester 70 that's in 6.5x55, 120 nosler BT's and 49 gn of reloader 22 got me 2950 FPS over the crono and three shots one hole accuracy at 100. it's silly accurate and the bullet performance would be spectacular , but i'm not comfortable pushing that sort of velocity and making a barrel burner. i've pulled it back to 2750 FPS with 47 gn of reloader and 125 nosler partitions that will do .6" at 100 . better general purpose bullet for my uses. bear in mind this is a wood stocked sporting rifle . not a heavy barreled target job i've mostly shot goat with the off chance of deer or pig and this is more than enough . i have used 140 sst's and 140 partitions at 2750 . accuracy has been good and expansion on goat at distance was good with the 140 sst's 46.5 gn of RE22 works with the 140's for me . the funny thing is some of these projectiles like jump, some don't .if i didn't like this rifle so much i would have a 7x57 . after a bit of digging and a article i read in "american rifleman " it really is a great all time caliber . i feel this caliber is due for a resurgance. check it out

[JimTom]

How fast can a CM sling a 143 ELDX?

Mate I don’t chrono anything however from the loading tables I expect that I am getting just under 2700fps out of them, so about the same or a tiny bit quicker thank the Swede with a couple of grains less powder.

quicker than a swede lol Ive owned 3 and all did well over 2700fps with a 140gr.

my last 260rem with a 21inch tube safely pushed 140gr Lapua's to 2840fps, now thats bit more than the Creedmore gets.

there is no such thing as a free lunch with the creedmore...ya gunna either need a long tube (heavier) or really push the PSI to keep up with the 260 and 6.5 swede.

Yes mate maybe your Swede and .260 do do over 2700fps, lol, like I said, I am just going off the loading tables. No doubt a Creedmoor could do the same. I don’t load outside the recommended loads of the manufacturers data, so I wouldn’t really know, lol, lol.
Wasn’t having a shot at the Swede mate, couldn’t care less, not into worrying about which rifle had the biggest cock.lol, lol, lol.

[bladeracer]

Yes mate maybe your Swede and .260 do do over 2700fps, lol, like I said, I am just going off the loading tables. No doubt a Creedmoor could do the same. I don’t load outside the recommended loads of the manufacturers data, so I wouldn’t really know, lol, lol.
Wasn’t having a shot at the Swede mate, couldn’t care less, not into worrying about which rifle had the biggest cock.lol, lol, lol.

I pretty much ignore manufacturer's data as they're all different. Your loads within the specific data you are using may well be outside the data from another manufacturer or manual. I load to what my brass and rifle tell me are acceptable.

[Cal-ApeR]

I think it's worth mentioning the small primer Lapua cases are thick with lots of metal around the primer pockets and some long-range competition shooters are pushing the Creedmoor up to and over 64,000psi. I don't want a barrel burner, but I wouldn't mind a hunting load with a bit of "oomph". I bought the 6.5CM to replace a 243 because I figured the 6.5 could do everything the 243 could do with similar recoil, longer barrel life and also encroach into 308 territory in terms of downrange energy. I wanted a mid-ranged centrefire that could "do everything". I don't think there's anything a 6.5 couldn't account for in the Aussie bush.

Your thoughts are very similar to mine. I still have a little life in my 243 but thought maybe the creedmoor for this price would tick the boxes and deal with my varmints as well as medium sized game. Brass is not as cheap, projectiles in .264 are slightly more per hundred but barely enough to worry about.

Have you achieved this goal? Any chance you've used the Speer 90gr TNT in your Creed?

[JimTom]

Yes mate maybe your Swede and .260 do do over 2700fps, lol, like I said, I am just going off the loading tables. No doubt a Creedmoor could do the same. I don’t load outside the recommended loads of the manufacturers data, so I wouldn’t really know, lol, lol.
Wasn’t having a shot at the Swede mate, couldn’t care less, not into worrying about which rifle had the biggest cock.lol, lol, lol.

I pretty much ignore manufacturer's data as they're all different. Your loads within the specific data you are using may well be outside the data from another manufacturer or manual. I load to what my brass and rifle tell me are acceptable.

Yep that’s fair enough mate. I know there are few reloaders who load more than recommended and do it quite safely. I would suggest that the loading tables are quite conservative when it comes to max loads. I have managed to achieve good accuracy within the recommended loads to date and haven’t had the need to stray outside them.

[SCJ429]

The Swede should have two sets of load data like the 45/70 has, one for older actions and one set for modern designs. It is not uncommon to be more than six grains over when loading for a Swede.

[Cooper]

Your thoughts are very similar to mine. I still have a little life in my 243 but thought maybe the creedmoor for this price would tick the boxes and deal with my varmints as well as medium sized game. Brass is not as cheap, projectiles in .264 are slightly more per hundred but barely enough to worry about.

Have you achieved this goal? Any chance you've used the Speer 90gr TNT in your Creed?

I've used the Speer 90gr TNT in the Creedmoor. I mainly bought them for the Grendel. Speer also make 140 soft point. But I ended using ar2208 with the 90gr TNT in the Creedmoor. Speer have load data. I was using 42.5gr of ar2208 in a Hornady case. I think from memory max is up near 44gr .

[bigrich]

The Swede should have two sets of load data like the 45/70 has, one for older actions and one set for modern designs. It is not uncommon to be more than six grains over when loading for a Swede.

i agree on two sets of load data for the swede . i find nick harvey's load data book to be more realistic, but i stress all loads should be cautiously worked up . a lot of the older cartriges like the 6.5 swede and the 7x57 , even the 30-30 in a ruger No 1 with spitzer bullets , can be loaded up to perform well beyond their original spec safely in a solid modern rifle . i love playing with ballistics. the funnest, cheapest caliber that i got the best groups out of , 22 hornet

[Cal-ApeR]

Cooper, how did the Speer perform? Curious to know what sort of groups you were capable of using the lighter projectiles.

I keep flipping back and forth between the idea of getting a spare 243 or a creedmoor. Your input here will help.

[MJW380]

One of my mates missus brought a Browning A bolt 3, was fairly cheap, with the intention of using it was a carry around rifle as it’s fairly light, they tried loading up 140 sst’s and it didn’t like them at all, ended up getting some 95gr v-max pills and they make tiny groups at 100

[SCJ429]

I tried some 62 grain Barnes Varmint Genades in my 243, they shot well at 3,900 fps but as soon as I pushed them over 4,000 I couldn't keep them on paper. They were good for vaporising small furry things at 3,900 so I left it at that.

Speer TNT are very accurate for a cheap projectile and frangable. Great for smaller game and if you can't get them to shoot then you are not trying. They do a lot of damage so if you want to keep the pelt you will have to head shoot..

[marksman]

The Swede should have two sets of load data like the 45/70 has, one for older actions and one set for modern designs. It is not uncommon to be more than six grains over when loading for a Swede.

i agree on two sets of load data for the swede . i find nick harvey's load data book to be more realistic, but i stress all loads should be cautiously worked up . a lot of the older cartriges like the 6.5 swede and the 7x57 , even the 30-30 in a ruger No 1 with spitzer bullets , can be loaded up to perform well beyond their original spec safely in a solid modern rifle . i love playing with ballistics. the funnest, cheapest caliber that i got the best groups out of , 22 hornet

+1
with regard to the 6.5x55 you will be able to load to higher pressure by getting a rifle that is a front locker which is why I had mine done on a 98 action
I do run mine well over the book guide marks with no pressure at all

[Cooper]

Cooper, how did the Speer perform? Curious to know what sort of groups you were capable of using the lighter projectiles.

I keep flipping back and forth between the idea of getting a spare 243 or a creedmoor. Your input here will help.

image.jpeg (180.43 KiB) Viewed 7906 times

That at 63 metres. 3 shots. I have a 26 inch barrel. They are extremely explosive out of the Creedmoor. They go fairly good out of the Grendel too! Even though they are a good few hundred feet per second slower out of the 6.5 Grendel.

[Flyer]

I think it's worth mentioning the small primer Lapua cases are thick with lots of metal around the primer pockets and some long-range competition shooters are pushing the Creedmoor up to and over 64,000psi. I don't want a barrel burner, but I wouldn't mind a hunting load with a bit of "oomph". I bought the 6.5CM to replace a 243 because I figured the 6.5 could do everything the 243 could do with similar recoil, longer barrel life and also encroach into 308 territory in terms of downrange energy. I wanted a mid-ranged centrefire that could "do everything". I don't think there's anything a 6.5 couldn't account for in the Aussie bush.

Your thoughts are very similar to mine. I still have a little life in my 243 but thought maybe the creedmoor for this price would tick the boxes and deal with my varmints as well as medium sized game. Brass is not as cheap, projectiles in .264 are slightly more per hundred but barely enough to worry about.

Have you achieved this goal? Any chance you've used the Speer 90gr TNT in your Creed?

I haven't used anything lighter than 123gr at this stage.

Brass and projectiles are slightly more than 243, but you tend to have a larger choice of 6.5 projectiles, as well as a choice or large and small primer brass. It also appears 6.5CM brass is coming down in price as the calibre becomes more common. The Starline Brass isn't bad value and comes with a guaranteed five reloads out of every case. But I've seen a video of two guys reloading a Lapua 6.5 Creedmore SRP case 21 times in a row to no ill effect, so that's pretty good value to me, too.

I've seen Federal 6.5CM Powershock 140gr ammo for sale for $25-$30 a box, and I've bought a couple of $30 boxes myself that shot really well and provided some cheap brass. Again, 6.5CM ammo is becoming more common and getting cheaper in price if you want a source of cheap brass or don't fancy reloading.

When it came time to choosing a 6.5, one of the things that swayed me towards the Creedmoor was the greater - and increasing - choice of all the above compared to 260 or even 6.5x55.

I don't notice any real difference in recoil between the 6.5 and 243, but I've shot both at metal gongs and metallic silhouettes and the 6.5 has a much more noticeable ring to it - it definitely hits harder (123gr bullets vs my old .243 87gr V-Max load).

I already have a 223 and rimfires which I shoot a lot, and I wanted one other centrefire to do everything else. I could have added a 7-08 or 308 to my 243, but I decided to rationalise both with a 6.5. I freely admit to jumping on the "manbun bandwagon" due to the CM's popularity, because that just means a greater choice of brass, projectiles and factory ammo that seems to be increasing every year.

4 shots at 100m

creed.jpg (154 KiB) Viewed 7898 times

[Bill]

thought this was worth posting up

real world velocities of Factory 120 Amaxs and 142gr Sierra HPBT handloands, barrel lengths from 27 to 16inches.

It would seem the 120s are about 200fps faster than a Grendel and about 200fps slower than a Swede on a bad day......

https://rifleshooter.com/2016/02/6-5-cr ... creedmoor/

[SCJ429]

thought this was worth posting up

real world velocities of Factory 120 Amaxs and 142gr Sierra HPBT handloands, barrel lengths from 27 to 16inches.

It would seem the 120s are about 200fps faster than a Grendel and about 200fps slower than a Swede on a bad day......

https://rifleshooter.com/2016/02/6-5-cr ... creedmoor/

Do you mean if the Swede is having a bad day then the CM can get within 200 fps?

By the figures in the link the CM can get nearly 2700 fps out of a 142 grain SMK, I can get over 3000 fps with a Swede shooting 143 grain ELDX. If you run similar pressures in the Swede it has to be faster because it is considerably bigger. Just sayin.

[Bill]

Yeap SC429 no substitute for cubes .....

No doubt if youre looking for a mild 6.5 then the creedmoor is a worthy step up from the pope. Its also kinda revealing when you look on usedguns to see how many lighlty shot creedmoors are available, the question is why.......

[Flyer]

thought this was worth posting up

real world velocities of Factory 120 Amaxs and 142gr Sierra HPBT handloands, barrel lengths from 27 to 16inches.

It would seem the 120s are about 200fps faster than a Grendel and about 200fps slower than a Swede on a bad day......

https://rifleshooter.com/2016/02/6-5-cr ... creedmoor/

Do you mean if the Swede is having a bad day then the CM can get within 200 fps?

By the figures in the link the CM can get nearly 2700 fps out of a 142 grain SMK, I can get over 3000 fps with a Swede shooting 143 grain ELDX. If you run similar pressures in the Swede it has to be faster because it is considerably bigger. Just sayin.

Can you run similar pressures though? It's not just the barrelled action but the brass that also determines pressure.

This guy loaded 2gr over book and got close to 2800fps in a 22" sporter barrel using 2209 and 143 ELD-X with no pressure signs in Starline small primer brass. Other powders are faster, like RL17 and Superperformance, so there's a lot of velocity to be had out of the Creedmoor if you push it with the right brass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0gQCmnYmHU

Quite a few guys are getting 2850-2950fps from 140-143gr bullets out of 26" barrels, too, if you look around.

I'm not saying the Swede isn't faster in a modern action, but I am saying modern brass can push the Creedmoor very close to modern Swede territory.

[SCJ429]

We need someone with a CM to do a ladder test for us, see what it can do with some Lapua brass and fill her up with 2209.

[JimTom]

I have a creed, I use Lap brass and load with 2209. Don’t have a chrono though.
Not sure that I’d be keen just to prove a point for the Manbun haters though.

[SCJ429]

Not looking to go to the point of failure but a safe pressure before the bolt gets tight. Do you know anyone with a chrono?

[marksman]

I have a creed, I use Lap brass and load with 2209. Don’t have a chrono though.
Not sure that I’d be keen just to prove a point for the Manbun haters though.

dont worry about the manbun haters, but owning a swede and a 6.5x284 I'd like to see what she can do myself

[Flyer]

As I mentioned earlier, we've chronoed the following:

24" Sako barrel, 143gr ELD-X, 2209, Lappy SRP brass, BR4 primers

41.5gr = 2650fps
42.0gr = 2680fps
42.5gr = 2710fps

If you extrapolate, that's pretty close to the Youtube guy, but I've got 2" extra barrel and am getting slightly below book values. I can only surmise the rifle is quite new (about 100 rounds through it) and may speed up a little once run in properly. I know it isn't a "Happy chrono", because it's been pretty close to ADI data with lots of other rifles and many loads.


We've also chronoed a 6.5x55 using the same chrono and here are the results:

6.5x55
Sierra Match King 123gr, 2209
44.3gr = 2770fps

Hornady SST 140gr, 2209
43.5gr = 2664fps


6.5CM
Lapua Scenar 123gr, 2209
43.2gr = 2815
44.2gr = 2880
45.2gr = 2960

Hornady ELD-X 143, 2209
41.5gr = 2650fps
42.0gr = 2680fps
42.5gr = 2710fps


The Swede loads were a bit soft, as they were target loads, and that was in a Sako 85 modern action with a 22.5" barrel.

[JimTom]

Not looking to go to the point of failure but a safe pressure before the bolt gets tight. Do you know anyone with a chrono?

Mate unfortunately I don’t know anyone. Would be an interesting experiment though.

[JimTom]

I have a creed, I use Lap brass and load with 2209. Don’t have a chrono though.
Not sure that I’d be keen just to prove a point for the Manbun haters though.

dont worry about the manbun haters, but owning a swede and a 6.5x284 I'd like to see what she can do myself

I agree mate, be interesting to see where the CM fits in compared to the others two you mentioned. I have watched a few YouTube clips of long range hunting with the 6.5x284. Pretty impressive stuff eh.

[bladeracer]

Can you run similar pressures though? It's not just the barrelled action but the brass that also determines pressure.

This guy loaded 2gr over book and got close to 2800fps in a 22" sporter barrel using 2209 and 143 ELD-X with no pressure signs in Starline small primer brass. Other powders are faster, like RL17 and Superperformance, so there's a lot of velocity to be had out of the Creedmoor if you push it with the right brass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0gQCmnYmHU

Quite a few guys are getting 2850-2950fps from 140-143gr bullets out of 26" barrels, too, if you look around.

I'm not saying the Swede isn't faster in a modern action, but I am saying modern brass can push the Creedmoor very close to modern Swede territory.

Pressure comes down to lots of things. Full-length sized brass will have higher pressure than neck-sized brass due to the smaller case volume, as will seating the bullets longer. Different powders produce different pressures depending on case-fill and bullet weight.

Why would somebody want to run their rifle anywhere close to its pressure limits? Every shot has a higher cost in the life of the bore, the brass and the action. To achieve what though, another 100fps? You can almost always achieve whatever goal you've set yourself by means other than working a rifle to destruction, like trying with a different cartridge, or a longer barrel with a slower powder.