3D printed guns, a new twist

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3D printed guns, a new twist

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jan 2019, 6:37 pm

https://www.computerworld.com.au/article/656187/3d-printer-firm-fights-firearms-rise-dummy-blueprints/?fbclid=IwAR3km2HUBt4S0uQXGZAlxfsjDjVDl29U35Q_gIiah9ZxmPMkWFPJ1Ki4DIk

"As part of its ‘HarmlessGuns’ campaign, Dagoma claimed it was actively “spreading 3D files of harmless weapons, thus access to actual ones gets harder”.
The company said it trawled the internet to collect hundreds of weapons blueprints, which it subtly modified to “make them unusable when printed”.
The modifications included making the diameter of gun barrels too small for bullets to fit down and changing triggers so they missed firing pins. According to the company more than 400 weapon parts were “rendered harmless”.
To make the dummy blueprints more difficult to detect, the adapted designs retained the same filename, weight and size of the originals."

This mob have been disseminating corrupted 3D printer files for a while hoping to disrupt the idea of printing firearms.
Now, as NSW made it illegal to possess such files...what happens when somebody goes to court and discovers the illegal files they possess actually produce nothing more than a plastic paperweight?

After a few dozen cases are tossed out of court at great expense I could see them repealing the legislation as unenforceable.
In which case, has this mob actually done more harm than good in this endeavour?
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Re: 3D printed guns, a new twist

Post by Gaznazdiak » 19 Jan 2019, 9:59 pm

Perhaps Blade, but mens rea can be argued, probably successfully.
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Re: 3D printed guns, a new twist

Post by bladeracer » 19 Jan 2019, 11:55 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:Perhaps Blade, but mens rea can be argued, probably successfully.


Possibly for the offence of possessing the files I guess.
I personally think it's a huge leap to prove anybody has evil intent from simply possessing a virtual drawing.
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Re: 3D printed guns, a new twist

Post by Gaznazdiak » 20 Jan 2019, 12:11 am

Making mere possession of plans is the usual over the top kneejerk without doubt, what I meant though, was if some nong printed a gun from a faulty plan it doesn't matter if it works or not, their intent to create a working illegal gun is the central issue.
Similar to conspiracy charges, you don't have to actually commit the crime itself, just make realistic preparations with the intent to do so.
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Re: 3D printed guns, a new twist

Post by JSS » 20 Jan 2019, 6:04 pm

I agree Gaz and I'd still rather the courts waste their time and our tax dollars on cases which turn out to be baseless than the kind of people whos only means of getting guns is print them actually achieving their goals. Plus win or lose it will still flag these people as trying to print guns..
I reckon what they're doing is a good thing.
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Re: 3D printed guns, a new twist

Post by Gaznazdiak » 20 Jan 2019, 7:28 pm

JSS wrote:I agree Gaz and I'd still rather the courts waste their time and our tax dollars on cases which turn out to be baseless than the kind of people whos only means of getting guns is print them actually achieving their goals. Plus win or lose it will still flag these people as trying to print guns..
I reckon what they're doing is a good thing.


G'day JSS.

I'm not arguing open slather, these things need to be controlled, it's just that governments of both persuasions have shown a history of swinging from inaction to overreaction. As if 1 law is good then 3 must be 3 times as good.

It's another one of those situations where they have to get the balance right, it's just a shame that their own popularity and advancement is the first consideration in any decision.
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Re: 3D printed guns, a new twist

Post by DJCoopes » 22 Jan 2019, 4:22 am



I'm pretty sure there aren't more than 200 3d printable firearm blueprints online...
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Re: 3D printed guns, a new twist

Post by Archie » 22 Jan 2019, 8:08 am

I don't have any sympathy for people getting the book thrown at them for having what is, for all intents and purposes, an unregistered gun. And I don't have a lot of sympathy for people claiming they were just downloading the files either.

But that said, I'm not sure its a great idea to flood the net with plans that are inherently unsafe - or at least even more unsafe than a plastic printed gun will inevitably be. "making the diameter of gun barrels too small for bullets to fit down" does not strike me as a good thing. I am fairly sure that would result in shattered shards of plastic rather than a conventional jam, and a bullet that ended up deflecting to who knows where.
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Re: 3D printed guns, a new twist

Post by Gaznazdiak » 22 Jan 2019, 9:34 am

Archie wrote:I don't have any sympathy for people getting the book thrown at them for having what is, for all intents and purposes, an unregistered gun. And I don't have a lot of sympathy for people claiming they were just downloading the files either.

But that said, I'm not sure its a great idea to flood the net with plans that are inherently unsafe - or at least even more unsafe than a plastic printed gun will inevitably be. "making the diameter of gun barrels too small for bullets to fit down" does not strike me as a good thing. I am fairly sure that would result in shattered shards of plastic rather than a conventional jam, and a bullet that ended up deflecting to who knows where.



There are people out there, some of them really out there, who love to think everything's a conspiracy.
This one's just for them; maybe putting 3D printer plans on the net that are designed to fail is yet another conspiracy by the UN. This one designed to kill off anyone stupid enough to make and use one, thereby raising the overall IQ of the population :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: 3D printed guns, a new twist

Post by bladeracer » 22 Jan 2019, 10:26 pm

Archie wrote:I don't have any sympathy for people getting the book thrown at them for having what is, for all intents and purposes, an unregistered gun. And I don't have a lot of sympathy for people claiming they were just downloading the files either.

But that said, I'm not sure its a great idea to flood the net with plans that are inherently unsafe - or at least even more unsafe than a plastic printed gun will inevitably be. "making the diameter of gun barrels too small for bullets to fit down" does not strike me as a good thing. I am fairly sure that would result in shattered shards of plastic rather than a conventional jam, and a bullet that ended up deflecting to who knows where.



I personally find an inherent problem in the authorities charging people for not committing any criminal act toward another person simply for showing an interest in firearms and their designs. If somebody actually prints a 3D firearm then sure, throw the book at them. But charge them for _actually_ possessing a firearm that is illegal to possess (and make sure it is actually a firearm, not a toy or non-firing replica of a firearm). This is basically heading toward charging people that own lathes, mills, or basic hand tools simply because they _could_ conceivably manufacture an illegal firearm, without any indication of any intent to do so. Even if somebody did make their own firearm, that still is no indication that they have any nefarious intent for it. No civilised country should be purging itself of creative and inventive pursuits simply because the result might be "illegal" at the time. Firearms are used far more for good than for evil, and any endeavour to improve the designs should be applauded.

I would think anybody that actually wishes to fire such a printed plastic firearm probably has some basic idea that the hole in the end should be of similar size to the bullet you wish to poke through it. If they don't understand that basic concept I think making plastic guns is probably the least of their problems.
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Re: 3D printed guns, a new twist

Post by bladeracer » 22 Jan 2019, 10:32 pm

Gaznazdiak wrote:There are people out there, some of them really out there, who love to think everything's a conspiracy.
This one's just for them; maybe putting 3D printer plans on the net that are designed to fail is yet another conspiracy by the UN. This one designed to kill off anyone stupid enough to make and use one, thereby raising the overall IQ of the population :lol: :lol: :lol:


Anybody that genuinely wants to acquire a firearm illegally, for an actual purpose, as opposed to simply "having" one, is easily able to find somebody that can get him a proper firearm, without a trail of IP addresses leading back to him. Sometimes it's simply a matter of lobbying some top-tier Police officers until they give you a licence...

Most of the time though, such people find it far easier to use something else, a vehicle, a knife, a hammer, a fist...no gun law ever saved somebody's life.
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Re: 3D printed guns, a new twist

Post by Gaznazdiak » 22 Jan 2019, 10:53 pm

That's true Blade.

It's like the spurious argument used against suppressors, that if they were legal then crims could get their hands on them.
As though the crims wouldn't just throw a crate in with one of the containers of shady guns they bring in anyway.

The fact that they don't, or bother to improvise shows what a nonsense their whole platform is based around.
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