Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by TassieTiger » 24 Jan 2019, 8:59 pm

So after sizing my 3rd and 4th fired cases - I examine them for any cracks, etc to ensure that are okay to take to the next step.

However, I've been trialing some compressed 223 loads lately and 1 out of 6 bullet seating's is resulting in very small and minor neck crackings - so i'm left pulling the cartridge and salvaging the projectile and the power and discarding the primed case.
How do you guys know if the neck is fragile - will / might crack - in particular when loading compressed loads that no doubt adds extra pressure to the case ? I'm wasting a lot of primers / time doing it the way I am...
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by marksman » 24 Jan 2019, 9:42 pm

I don't have that problem as I anneal and the cases stay in good condition for the life of them, till the primer pockets start enlarging, sometimes 20 reloads
if I use once fired range brass eg.. winchester I may find some necks with tiny cracks already starting from the crimp that they use that cant be trimmed out so I don't use those cases, I do see the occasional bad case when fireforming cases, I will take the live primers out and use them for fireforming from crap cases
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by deye243 » 24 Jan 2019, 10:03 pm

There are better powders pick one of them .......
I only use REM brass and get upwards of 15 loads and have never anealed a case yet but they are mild loads with a 55g pill at 3255fps .
User avatar
deye243
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2208
Victoria

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by SCJ429 » 24 Jan 2019, 10:06 pm

Cracked necks are usually from overworked, work hardened brass. Try not to push the neck around any more than you need to. How much powder are you trying to use? Do you have a long drop tube and tap the case before trying to seat the projectile. Even without annealing you should be able to get ten reloads out of cheap brass.
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3207
New South Wales

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by straightshooter » 25 Jan 2019, 7:01 am

SCJ429 wrote:Cracked necks are usually from overworked, work hardened brass. Try not to push the neck around any more than you need to. How much powder are you trying to use? Do you have a long drop tube and tap the case before trying to seat the projectile. Even without annealing you should be able to get ten reloads out of cheap brass.


Yes, maybe, but not always.
I have had circumstances where new unprocessed virgin brass was loaded and cracks appeared on firing. Later inspection of unfired loaded rounds of that same batch were found with neck cracks.
It happens.
Any combination of the following can be the cause.
Poor, incorrect or no anneal from factory
Rough case mouth
Neck too thick
Neck sized too tight
Work hardening
In my experience many instances of poor quality brass seem to emanate from the land of the free. No names no pack-drill.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about."
"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." Sir Joshua Reynolds
straightshooter
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1263
New South Wales

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by TassieTiger » 25 Jan 2019, 7:08 am

I’m using Remington brass - some is 3 and 4 shots old(stuff I’ve purchased), some maybe older as it came with rifle.
55gn v max projectiles.
26gn ar2206h
56.7mm oal.
Am gently tapping cases to settle powder but you can still hear a crunch and feel it on the press.
You can actually feel the difference when a neck cracks - lots less seating resistance.
Some cracks are 1-2mm long and some have blown entire necks...
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by straightshooter » 25 Jan 2019, 7:25 am

Anneal just the neck and then inside chamfer.
This should mostly resolve the problem.
Anneal by twisting the front half of the neck with the case held in you fingers in a small pinpoint gas flame. When you see a colour change at start of the shoulder that's enough. Either that or your fingers will tell you when it is time to drop the case. Very quick and very easy.
The compressed load has no influence over the cracked necks.
If you don't like the crunching feeling when seating then use funnel with a long drop tube.
"Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about."
"There is no expedient to which a man will not resort to avoid the real labor of thinking." Sir Joshua Reynolds
straightshooter
Warrant Officer C1
Warrant Officer C1
 
Posts: 1263
New South Wales

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by marksman » 25 Jan 2019, 7:43 am

TassieTiger wrote:I’m using Remington brass - some is 3 and 4 shots old(stuff I’ve purchased), some maybe older as it came with rifle.
55gn v max projectiles.
26gn ar2206h
56.7mm oal.
Am gently tapping cases to settle powder but you can still hear a crunch and feel it on the press.
You can actually feel the difference when a neck cracks - lots less seating resistance.
Some cracks are 1-2mm long and some have blown entire necks...


sounds to me like very hard brass that needs annealing or throwing and getting some better condition cases :drinks:
you may be able to see the cracks by inspecting the case necks before priming :unknown:
“If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinformed”. Mark Twain
User avatar
marksman
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3660
Victoria

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by bigfellascott » 25 Jan 2019, 7:58 am

deye243 wrote:There are better powders pick one of them .......
I only use REM brass and get upwards of 15 loads and have never anealed a case yet but they are mild loads with a 55g pill at 3255fps .


Same here D, I haven't had a need to anal anything and ain't going to anytime in this lifetime :lol:

Seriously though I pretty much run Rem Cases for the most part (cheap enough to buy) and I haven't had any real issues with them either, some of my 22-250 cases would have been reloaded 10+ times now I guess, the 204's have been reloaded 5 or 6 times now I guess and the 223' 3 or 4 times I guess and I think I've had one or 2 necks split over the years, mind you I'm not reloading the case week after week and emptying em at the range, maybe that's why they are having issues (regularly reloaded)? :unknown:
User avatar
bigfellascott
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 5289
-

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by TassieTiger » 25 Jan 2019, 8:05 am

I bought these rem cases approx 4 months ago so reloaded 1 a month...

Annealing is a step I really want to avoid...I think I’ll do as MM advises, buy some new cases and a loupe’.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by deye243 » 25 Jan 2019, 3:30 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
deye243 wrote:There are better powders pick one of them .......
I only use REM brass and get upwards of 15 loads and have never anealed a case yet but they are mild loads with a 55g pill at 3255fps .


Same here D, I haven't had a need to anal anything and ain't going to anytime in this lifetime :lol:

Seriously though I pretty much run Rem Cases for the most part (cheap enough to buy) and I haven't had any real issues with them either, some of my 22-250 cases would have been reloaded 10+ times now I guess, the 204's have been reloaded 5 or 6 times now I guess and the 223' 3 or 4 times I guess and I think I've had one or 2 necks split over the years, mind you I'm not reloading the case week after week and emptying em at the range, maybe that's why they are having issues (regularly reloaded)? :unknown:


woohoo there big fella what are you talking about :o :lol:
User avatar
deye243
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2208
Victoria

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by bigfellascott » 25 Jan 2019, 3:42 pm

deye243 wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:
deye243 wrote:There are better powders pick one of them .......
I only use REM brass and get upwards of 15 loads and have never anealed a case yet but they are mild loads with a 55g pill at 3255fps .


Same here D, I haven't had a need to anal anything and ain't going to anytime in this lifetime :lol:

Seriously though I pretty much run Rem Cases for the most part (cheap enough to buy) and I haven't had any real issues with them either, some of my 22-250 cases would have been reloaded 10+ times now I guess, the 204's have been reloaded 5 or 6 times now I guess and the 223' 3 or 4 times I guess and I think I've had one or 2 necks split over the years, mind you I'm not reloading the case week after week and emptying em at the range, maybe that's why they are having issues (regularly reloaded)? :unknown:


woohoo there big fella what are you talking about :o :lol:


:lol: :lol: All this talk of Annealing made me do it :D
User avatar
bigfellascott
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 5289
-

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by TassieTiger » 25 Jan 2019, 4:00 pm

Think I’ll stick to my cracked nuts...I mean necks.
Tikka .260 (Z5 5x25/52)
Steyr Pro Varmint .223 - VX 3
CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
Howa 300 win mag. SHV 5-20/56
Marlin SBL 45/70
TassieTiger
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 3704
Tasmania

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by SCJ429 » 26 Jan 2019, 9:18 am

I have seen some once fired brass that had split which I thought may be a fault in the brass or poor annealing. Most case splitting is cause by overworking the neck during sizing. If you get a once fired case and never size it, just gently dent the edge of the neck so it will hold the pill. A case loaded like this is unlikely to split the neck evenafter many repeated firings.

Heavily compressed loads do put pressure on the neck, some people have been able to crush the neck. 2206 is a nice fine powder for a stick and will settle with a drop tube and tapping.
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3207
New South Wales

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by Roo farmer » 26 Jan 2019, 10:43 am

deye243 wrote:There are better powders pick one of them .......
I only use REM brass and get upwards of 15 loads and have never anealed a case yet but they are mild loads with a 55g pill at 3255fps .


Which powders are better?
Roo farmer
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 107
South Australia

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by SCJ429 » 26 Jan 2019, 11:16 am

He is talking about faster powders which use a smaller powder charge.
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3207
New South Wales

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 26 Jan 2019, 11:24 am

With the cost of ammo of a 223 and the resultant abundance of one fired cases, I am unsure if it would be an issue to just normal neck size 5 times and then chuck it away.... I reckon you could even FLS 5 times and be fine.
Sergeant Hartman
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1722
Victoria

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by bigfellascott » 26 Jan 2019, 11:51 am

Ziad wrote:With the cost of ammo of a 223 and the resultant abundance of one fired cases, I am unsure if it would be an issue to just normal neck size 5 times and then chuck it away.... I reckon you could even FLS 5 times and be fine.


FLS was all I did for many years and probably still do the most (nothing worse than being out hunting and go to chamber a round and find out it don't fit no more cos ya only been neck sizing em. :D
User avatar
bigfellascott
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 5289
-

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by deye243 » 26 Jan 2019, 1:30 pm

Which powders are better?[/quote]
With pills 55g and down hard pressed to find a letter powder than BM2 and 8208 the both have very high density and produce great velocity.
User avatar
deye243
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2208
Victoria

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by deye243 » 26 Jan 2019, 1:34 pm

bigfellascott wrote:
Ziad wrote:With the cost of ammo of a 223 and the resultant abundance of one fired cases, I am unsure if it would be an issue to just normal neck size 5 times and then chuck it away.... I reckon you could even FLS 5 times and be fine.


FLS was all I did for many years and probably still do the most (nothing worse than being out hunting and go to chamber a round and find out it don't fit no more cos ya only been neck sizing em. :D

I must be special never had that problem after 20 years of neck sizing even with my revolvers I only ever size 95% of the case that held the pill . The only ones I full length sized were for the 45ACP.
User avatar
deye243
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2208
Victoria

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by bigfellascott » 26 Jan 2019, 2:22 pm

deye243 wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:
Ziad wrote:With the cost of ammo of a 223 and the resultant abundance of one fired cases, I am unsure if it would be an issue to just normal neck size 5 times and then chuck it away.... I reckon you could even FLS 5 times and be fine.


FLS was all I did for many years and probably still do the most (nothing worse than being out hunting and go to chamber a round and find out it don't fit no more cos ya only been neck sizing em. :D

I must be special never had that problem after 20 years of neck sizing even with my revolvers I only ever size 95% of the case that held the pill . The only ones I full length sized were for the 45ACP.


Yeah I've been caught out a few times over the years, prob was I didn't quite have the dies set up right at the time but ya live and learn. generally what I do now when setting up the dies is size a case, chamber it and see it it cycles right and the bolt closes fine then I lock em down and check a few more until Im happy they cycle fine.

I never got bothered with neck dies for quite a few years and still don't have em for some of the cals I have.
User avatar
bigfellascott
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 5289
-

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by deye243 » 26 Jan 2019, 3:08 pm

When I was using a fld I just screw it in about 0.040 short of touching the press then run a case in wipe it off and try in chamber and keep going a 1/4 turn until the bolt go's down with a bit of resistance then I go 16th or a turn untill the bolt go's down with just a smidgen more resistance than a empty chamber then the die is set for that rifle and brass lasts a long time .......

Ps and just remember to try a couple that haven't been in the die to check that all is good .......
User avatar
deye243
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2208
Victoria

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by SCJ429 » 26 Jan 2019, 5:59 pm

deye243 wrote:Which powders are better?

With pills 55g and down hard pressed to find a letter powder than BM2 and 8208 the both have very high density and produce great velocity.[/quote]

I have found that BM2 is pretty close to 2206h but any faster than that and you are giving away velocity. I would stick with 2206h and find a load that isn't highly compressed, 26.5 grain should go into the case just fine with a little tapping.
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3207
New South Wales

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by Roo farmer » 26 Jan 2019, 7:53 pm

deye243 wrote:With pills 55g and down hard pressed to find a letter powder than BM2 and 8208 the both have very high density and produce great velocity.


Yes, until you compare the price, and then 2206H is better.
Roo farmer
Lance Corporal
Lance Corporal
 
Posts: 107
South Australia

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by bigfellascott » 26 Jan 2019, 8:18 pm

Roo farmer wrote:
deye243 wrote:With pills 55g and down hard pressed to find a letter powder than BM2 and 8208 the both have very high density and produce great velocity.


Yes, until you compare the price, and then 2206H is better.


I like the versatility of the 2206H - I use it in 5 diff cals. :thumbsup:
User avatar
bigfellascott
Lieutenant General
Lieutenant General
 
Posts: 5289
-

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by deye243 » 26 Jan 2019, 10:50 pm

Bwahahaha Less than 3c a load ........ and I thought I was a tight arse
User avatar
deye243
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2208
Victoria

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by SCJ429 » 27 Jan 2019, 8:02 am

deye243 wrote:Bwahahaha Less than 3c a load ........ and I thought I was a tight arse


You may need to recalculate your powder costs, it costs me more than ten times that.
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3207
New South Wales

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by SCJ429 » 27 Jan 2019, 8:23 am

My calculations we a bit out too. A 500 gram bottle of powder costs me $52, there are 7716 grain in a bottle and with a 25 grain load, 308 loads in a bottle making each load costing 17 cents for powder.
SCJ429
Lieutenant Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Posts: 3207
New South Wales

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 27 Jan 2019, 9:14 am

Maybe he's using trailboss in a 223. Lol 3cents maybe we should buy start buying powder from him at 3c per 308 load.
Sergeant Hartman
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
 
Posts: 1722
Victoria

Re: Compressed 223 loads cracking neck

Post by deye243 » 27 Jan 2019, 4:27 pm

I ment 3cents more than a AR powder per shot
User avatar
deye243
Second Lieutenant
Second Lieutenant
 
Posts: 2208
Victoria

Next

Back to top
 
Return to Reloading ammunition