Announcement: New (and improved) moderation system now live

[Blackened]

I'd like to bring to everyone's attention some improvements to the way the forum will be moderated moving forward.

In the past we have, admittedly, been pretty relaxed with warnings etc. Probably too relaxed if we're honest.

We do our best to let everyone have their say, even if it's a bit controversial, as long as it's done maturely. When things did cross the line, while content was deleted and warnings given, there was no formal system around this.

Warnings were sent, but ultimately lost from memory for the mods and, as a result, some repeat offenders/problems have been repeated more than should have been allowed. Obviously this was far from ideal.

What's done is done, but, moving forward this will no longer be the case.

As of now, we have a logged system for user warnings. Those who stir trouble will no longer be able to perpetually cause new problems as old ones are forgotten.

In the event someone crosses the line, a warning will be generated and logged against their account, the member will be notified, and if 3 warnings are accrued the member will be banned.

Seeking to insult a member, pointless arguing (as opposed to disagreement or discussion), bringing your problems with someone from one topic to another, posting deliberately inflammatory content, re-instigating problem topics or starting new topics on the same subject after they have been locked etc. will all result in a warning.

The same applies to perpetuating an argument or returning an insult; this is no better than starting or being the first to sling one. "They started it" is no excuse, no one wants to read pointless arguments and all those contributing to one are equally responsible.

Problem posts should be reporting in the first instance to be dealt with by mods. Instructions on how to report inappropriate content here. Reporting inappropriate content brings it to our attention that much sooner, and it can be addressed promptly.

If you see something out of line, just report it. Simple.

I won't provide an itemized list here, common sense will dictate what is and isn't appropriate, and those without will not be with us much longer.

It will take a little time for this to filter through, so I ask members not to be frustrated at seeing more of the "same old" temporarily. The new system is running now.

I will leave this open, for now, for any questions or feedback.

Cheers.

[on_one_wheel]

Can we keep our scores displayed?

It might make getting fired from Enoughgun a little more fun.

scores.jpg (136.33 KiB) Viewed 52507 times

[bigrich]

sounds good to me blackened , some posts have gone round and round in pointless argument , some folks have got too personal and not respected others rights to having their own point of view. politics can bring out the worst in people sometimes, but it's also something that the shooting fraternity need to talk about as the media and groups like GCA regularily demonise shooters . i've also gotten some great info and good stories from folks on here as well. here's hoping a fresh perspective on this site makes it better and more enjoyable for all .

[Chappo]

Remove the “media and politics” section.....

[Sergeant Hartman]

Chap, I disagree. It will make the forum very bland.

I see the point of the mods, keep up the good work. And hopefully I be a good boy

[Oldbloke]

Remove the “media and politics” section.....

True would make it a little boring. But there are forums out there (not shootin) that dont allow political or religious stuff. Seems to work ok.

[Gaznazdiak]

Media and politics can, by nature, be divisive but removing it is akin to banning semiautomatics for everyone because a few misused them.

I have been guilty of getting carried away at times, nothing I'm proud of, but hey, I'm human, I have my foibles like everyone else.

Perhaps if topics causing acrimony are shut down before they degenerate too far, we can still discuss them until they get out of hand.

Who knows maybe we'll eventually be able to discuss them without the mods having to step in too often.

[duncan61]

Mainly because it is all so negative and you are all feeding of each other I am on fishwrecked and politics don't get a mention sport is discussed which is good.What is the percentage of positive comments on politics.Its the system we have come up with a better way before denigrating people you have never met.And yes I stood at a primary school last election with a coreflute and supported SFFP and answered questions because I believe in the sensible management of our fish stocks that the greens wish to lock up the whole ocean in marine parks.I enjoy this forum and it concerns me when its full of clutter about politics.Is there not a political forum somewhere.Sure I have the option to not open the thread but that is like reading half a book.Can we not share hunting stories and information on firearms which is what this site was created for

[Blackened]

About the media and politics section.

I would say that removing content shouldn't be the answer.

Politics is, unfortunately, a constant shadow over our collective interest here, and sometimes there are things happening in that arena that are worth being aware of, or discussion.

Plenty of people here are perfectly capable of having respectful differences of opinion, and that is what we want.

Everyone is capable of a slip, hence the warning system. But if people continually can't control themselves then ultimately they are the problem, not the content.

The fact is that without differences of opinion there is no forum, the alternative is basically talking into an echo chamber.

Steve: We should have XYZ!
Bill: Yeah!
Rob: Yeah!
Fred: Yeah!

There's little point in that.

(If all you want is someone to tell you you're always right, and how smart you are, go speak to your mother )

All that said, let's leave the subject of the media and politics forum at that for now and keep this on the topic of moderation.

If Aster considers that an option I'm sure he'll do a dedicated post.

[JSS]

Over the years i've been a member of road bike, dirt bike, 4wd, fishing and even a caravan forum and i have to say this is by far the best forum with the least amount of fighting and insult throwing. Funny isn't it, the crazy gun nuts are the friendliest bunch
The caravaners are the worst by far, they are a bunch of opinionated grumpy old bastards!!

I'm sure that admins new rules will workout just fine and won't even need much enforcing. Last week was a big week and emotions were high for many and opinions were hard fought but we got through it without any serious damage.
As for deleting the media & politics section, well that would just be a knee jerk reaction (like the banning of semis)
I reckon if we were all at the pub together no-one would be outside bleeding & we'd all be sharing a beer or ten.

This is a good place

[Blackened]

Can we keep our scores displayed?

As long as you do it without calling someone a d**khead at the same time I've got no problem with that

[AusC]

Many scalps so far Blackened?

[Die Judicii]

I'm sure that overall we'll survive this and move forward to become an even greater forum.
I also firmly believe that this has been the "shake up" "wake up" call that we all needed, to continue on as a GREAT forum.

[Member-Deleted]

My dad always said 'A good kick in the butt at times is good'' and i said well then why do i get one every day and his answer ''I want you perfect he failed sadly
he kicked me because i was a pain in the butt and yes good forum lets keep it that way its fun

[Patriot]

Sounds like censorship. Typical though. Forums with no spine.

[on_one_wheel]

Sounds like censorship. Typical though. Forums with no spine.

Encouraging people to show mutual respect is not censorship.

We've been allowed to write about anything we've wanted to here provided the conversation stays respectfully.

I think that admin coming forward with this announcement shows genuine backbone.

A spineless admin would simply delete members without warning or explanation.

[Patriot]

That’s exactly what it is, censorship.

When speech is shut down for any reason, it is censorship.

There is a lot of bull around these days that if people’s feelings are hurt, then it is not free speech.

A disappointing decision from the moderators.

[Blackened]

Patriot,

I honestly have no idea what you are going on about...

What is your complaint exactly?

That ageism, sexism, racism and deliberate attempts to insult people or initiate arguments aren't welcome here?

Here, on this free forum, that you're not in any way obliged to participate in...

Any time you find the respectful discourse between mature people too much for you, you know where to find the door.

[Die Judicii]

Patriot,

I honestly have no idea what you are going on about...

What is your complaint exactly?

That ageism, sexism, racism and deliberate attempts to insult people or initiate arguments aren't welcome here?

Here, on this free forum, that you're not in any way obliged to participate in...

Any time you find the respectful discourse between mature people too much for you, you know where to find the door.

[Die Judicii]

Mods,,,, I think to go hand in hand with the "New (and improved) moderation system " we definately need a NEW EMOTICON..

A one way swinging door would be perfect.

[Patriot]

Patriot,

I honestly have no idea what you are going on about...

What is your complaint exactly?

That ageism, sexism, racism and deliberate attempts to insult people or initiate arguments aren't welcome here?

Here, on this free forum, that you're not in any way obliged to participate in...

Any time you find the respectful discourse between mature people too much for you, you know where to find the door.

No problem with respectful discourse mate, I think my posts have always been respectful.

I just think as mature people, we should be able to handle free speech however it comes, after all its only words.

Offence is taken not given, the more we, as a society, give into the ‘victim mentality ‘ the weaker our democracy becomes.

[Member-Deleted]

Patriot, I can't comment on your prior posts mate, I don't know where or how you were brought up but in my day you showed the elders respect first then all other people regardless of their age. If you did want to disrespect someone or say something to upset them then you said it in private, not in public or on a forum. If you don't do it in private then there's the spinless part right there.

I agree some take things to heart very easily but that's why respect is called for. Many of us don't know each other or each others stress levels, there has to be a happy medium and the only way to achieve that is to expect respect from all concerned.

I to may have tread close to being stepped on by the mods at some time but hey, if I had I would have respected that and made moves to control myself better, not take a swipe at the mods for doing their job.

Let's have fun on this forum and poke fun at your mates. Lets learn from people on here, I know I have, and made the odd friend that without this forum I would never have known.

It's easy, just like the Mrs tellin you ya spent too much on rifles, you just plod on and take care next time

[Die Judicii]

Well said GDB

The old folks certainly had something special.

Now, my old man always told me that RESPECT is EARNED and certainly not COMMANDED.
Something that younger people of this day and age don't seem to be able to comprehend.

[Flyer]

No problem with respectful discourse mate, I think my posts have always been respectful.

I just think as mature people, we should be able to handle free speech however it comes, after all its only words.

Offence is taken not given, the more we, as a society, give into the ‘victim mentality ‘ the weaker our democracy becomes.

I, too, am in the free speech camp.

Having said that, we do get quite a bit of freedom here compared to other places and there appears to be a common-sense approach to moderation.

There's a lot of respect for knowledge in the gun forums, and a lot of members go to a lot of trouble to give help and offer advice.

Politics on the other had . . . is just a reflection of real life. They say never discuss politics or religion, as they both polarise. It's a brave forum that has a politics section (especially where firearms legislation is involved), and it can't be easy moderating it.

But I've seen the results of free-for-alls on other forums, and it just doesn't work. People say crap to each other online they would never say face-to-face because there are not the same social conventions or consequences.

As much as I cherish my implied right to free speech (which we don't actually have under the Australian Constitution), I accept there must be a line drawn for the purpose of discourse. Otherwise every thread ends up being a bunch of people calling each other names. Been there, done that.

[AusC]

Hmm, some dramatic terms getting thrown around in here.

Censorship, shutting down speech, the weakening of democracy.

I think some people are confusing "free speech" with "people have to listen to my opinion".

There's a difference between censorship and not indulging peoples rubbish

[Sergeant Hartman]

People actually forget under Australian law, its a privilege granted, esp in a forum like situation.....

Australia does not have explicit freedom of speech in any constitutional or statutory declaration of rights

Some times people forget that and think they are in America.

[bigrich]

I agree with all posts above on this page. GDB, flyer , ziad , JD , AusC, all good well said points of view . Politics and religion are two subjects garunteed to start arguments. I think by and large there is a lot of goodwill on this forum. And I reckon the mods have been lenient in a lot of ways. Love ya work one and all

[Member-Deleted]

HERE , HERE Spoke like a true gentleman Cheers BR

[mickb]

My views on moderation, is firstly it isn't. A moderator in true use of the term is someone who intercedes on the behalf of debating parties without exercising authority.

In 20 years on internet forums I have seen very little moderation, their role is arbitration.

Not saying it isn't necessary of course, or they dont have a right to, I have been in the role myself, just laying out what this is.

As to comments about a forum encouraging good discourse, mature behaviour and discouraging poor behaviour I would totally agree. And for someone to do this would be 'actual moderation'.

A group of people interceeding with good manners to basically correct, request , or if necessary berate a difficult person is a far greater tool than arbitration, and creates a culture that basically manages itself( at least 90% of the time, there are times for legal infractions or where someone is unresposive, the admin must act) The largest gun forums on the internet generally operate this way. They can have debates raging, s**t slinging but generally the moderators can hang back until the last minute because if the site has a good enough culture, the problem will generally be sorted out by the advent of the other members.

As to a 3 strike warning and the necessity to record this in perpetuity. I actually don't understand this. Even in law and financial issues, charges, crimes, bankruptcy, many black marks can be forgotten with time, or considered to have expired in their limitations. An assault charge expiring and being allowed to own guns again a prime example, or traffic infractions not following you for the rest of your life. Young people are going to spend several decades on forums after all. People have bad years, people have messy divorces, people say things they don't mean, people learn, people grow up.

[bladeracer]

mickb,

Are you thinking of mediation perhaps?