Bullet seated too deep ???

Reloading equipment, methods, load data, powder and projectile information.

Re: Bullet seated too deep ???

Post by bigfellascott » 23 May 2019, 9:33 pm

TassieTiger wrote:I’m not what id call experienced in reloading by any stretch but an old friend of mine who worked in the forces as a sniper is...and I agree with OB here.

When I started, the very basics of reloading were easy...then as I started getting results, I wanted to get better - so I bought a comparator, an OAL, etc and instead of getting better, I opened too many conflicting doors... I started to get completely lost as I moved further away from the basics - so much so, I asked my friend to step in and show me where I had screwed up.

He does NOT suffer fools lightly - so I set up my 06 on a bench, had the dies, cases, OAL gauge, comparator, etc etc all laid out for when he came over...

He walked in - picked up everything except the rifle - placed it all in a draw and said “do not open this for 2 effing years. “

He loaded a dummy bullet a little long on purpose and test chambered it - he then lowered the seating depth .005 each time, continuing to test chamber each time, until the bolt eventually closed without unusual resistance (he handed to me each time to feel the close force)....in the end - he handed me the bullet and said “here - in the field, this bullet will be with in 1-2mm’s of anything anyone can produce by other technical measurements...” after testing a few, I cannot argue with him.

I’m back doing the basics for now. Lesson learned.


That's the method I use too, I've never used all this new wiz bang crap (designed to take ya money IMHO) you really don't need it unless you are an anal retentive or a paper murderer with OCD or into trying to shoot tiny little groups and to better them each outing. For general paper punching or hunting keep it simple I say, well unless you suffer OCD then get stuck into it :D
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Re: Bullet seated too deep ???

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 24 May 2019, 3:07 pm

Hey I am a paper puncher...but absolutely love the 6br its like a laser. I use the method above to find my lands
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Re: Bullet seated too deep ???

Post by SCJ429 » 24 May 2019, 6:22 pm

The 6mmBR is a pretty handy hunting cartridge as well. Loading can be as complicated as you want to make it. Don't want to neck turn? Then use a no turn reamer.
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Re: Bullet seated too deep ???

Post by cirles » 26 May 2019, 5:25 pm

Group 1 Bullets - Copy 1.jpg
1st grouping
Group 1 Bullets - Copy 1.jpg (611.76 KiB) Viewed 3600 times
Like the experience you described here Tassie Tiger regarding your friend from the forces, the KISS principle sounds good.

RESULTS from shooting & odd measurements (100 meters) -

Had made up 50 brand new cases & my CBTO measurements for the 1st 20 cases had a range of 3 ½ thousandths b/w them, not what I had hoped for as made sure all case necks were lubricated. So still having issues with getting consistent sizing here, and considering people are talking of keeping bullets as low as 2 thousandths of the lands, that is not really cutting it. The last 30 cases loaded had a variation of 6 thousandths, which came from I think me having to empty the cases of loaded powder because I had forgotten to camfer the neck of those cases so this may have wiped away the dry lube (Mica) in the neck when I finally loaded (again) & seated them.

Images show some of the groupings (x5 each) , and they were all around this. The drawn circles with cross pattern are approx. 1 & 2/32 of an inch, I drew a sharpie felt pen around a 10 cent coin. Used ADI AR2209 powder, 38 grain [mid range], 140gr Berger VLD Target bullets, Lapua Cases Brand new. So now have once fired cases.

Used 2 different primers (25 each - CCI Magnum Small Rifle Primers No. 450 & Federal Premium Match Small Rifle GM250M). Funny thing is the CCI primed cases did not appear to have increased the shoulder length of the cases, but the Federal primed cases grew by 3 thousandths on average (more power generated?).

Another unexpected result was all case lengths are now shorter in length than when brand new, expansion to fit rifle chamber shortened all cases?
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Group 9 Bullets - Copy.jpg
9th grouping
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Group 5 Bullets - Copy.jpg
5th grouping
Group 5 Bullets - Copy.jpg (728.29 KiB) Viewed 3600 times
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Re: Bullet seated too deep ???

Post by marksman » 26 May 2019, 8:48 pm

circles you are getting a heap of horizontal
please dont be offended if I say I think you may be the problem
have a look at this utube vid I think will help you shrink your groups :thumbsup: :drinks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLeJ8rRUSXc

be aware that a heavy trigger can cause horizontal as well as other things :drinks:
also a smaller target is better, aim small shoot small :thumbsup:
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Re: Bullet seated too deep ???

Post by SCJ429 » 26 May 2019, 10:27 pm

Are they all the same powder charge but using different primers?

Why did you decide to use different primers for this load test?

Don't test more than one change at a time.

You look like you are having fun, keep it up.
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Re: Bullet seated too deep ???

Post by cirles » 26 May 2019, 11:00 pm

marksman wrote:circles you are getting a heap of horizontal
please dont be offended if I say I think you may be the problem
have a look at this utube vid I think will help you shrink your groups :thumbsup: :drinks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLeJ8rRUSXc

be aware that a heavy trigger can cause horizontal as well as other things :drinks:
also a smaller target is better, aim small shoot small :thumbsup:


Hi marksman,

No offense at all taken, & yes I think that I am the problem with the groups. Definitely getting horizontal shooting so any suggestions are welcome & will look at the video you have posted.

I find that I am not comfortable when it comes to operating the rifle on a bench (friend just starting says the same thing, he prefers shooting prone). I shoot from a bipod that has spiked feet (came as standard) so use a strip of rubber matting I place on the bench top & put my bipod on top of that. I then use my left hand under the pistol grip handle to help adjust height (do not use a bag or anything at the rear & do not wish to) while trying to hold the stock end hard into my shoulder (which I think may be wrong). Another problem I am running into is suffering from pins & needles in my right dodgy arm, result of neck issues that rose again 2-3 months ago, & that may be a game changer in ending this little game. Will have to see how that plays out next time.

Really enjoying this otherwise, the setting up & actually loading rounds that did not blow up the rifle :D
Last edited by cirles on 26 May 2019, 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bullet seated too deep ???

Post by cirles » 26 May 2019, 11:13 pm

SCJ429 wrote:Are they all the same powder charge but using different primers?

Why did you decide to use different primers for this load test?

Don't test more than one change at a time.

You look like you are having fun, keep it up.


Hi SCJ429,

All powder charges exactly the same, but yes 2 different primers. Wanted to see if primers could make a difference regarding accuracy & don/t really see anything significant here. The puzzle is the growth/length increase of the shoulders on the Federal primer cases but not apparently on the CCI primer cases, which suggests to me that more power was generated by the Federal primers. But that did not seem to have much bearing on the accuracy at this 100 meters. Certainly my next load test, I will stick with the Federal primers because they seem to fire form the cases better.
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Re: Bullet seated too deep ???

Post by cirles » 26 May 2019, 11:46 pm

Previous images were for the CCI primers, these 3 are for the Federal primers.
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Group 10 Bullets -1.jpg
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Group 6 Bullets - Copy 1.jpg
Group 6 Bullets - Copy 1.jpg (636.33 KiB) Viewed 3407 times
Group 2 Bullets - Copy 1.jpg
Group 2 Bullets - Copy 1.jpg (521.84 KiB) Viewed 3407 times
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Re: Bullet seated too deep ???

Post by SCJ429 » 27 May 2019, 10:13 am

Stick with whatever primer you like but find a load that is sitting in a node that shoots. Then if you want to change primers you can do this testing. The new primer may give you extra speed and push you out of the node. You then throttle back the charge to get you back into the node and see if the primers have decreased your standard deviation. Do you have a chronograph?
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Re: Bullet seated too deep ???

Post by SCJ429 » 27 May 2019, 10:24 am

Shooting prone off a bipod takes a little technique but can be extremely accurate. You see F class shooters using bipods on skids so that the rifle recoils straight back. If you put too much input into the rifle it may bounce off the ground sending your rounds left and right, up and down. Loading up the bipod by pushing it with your shoulder against spiked feet may be doing this. Try rubber feet and gentle pressure from your shoulder.

Marksman posted a vid that showed some excellent tips including trigger control. I find I am better with my thumb placed along the side of the stock, just above my trigger finger. Placing my thumb up behind the action tends to make me shoot left. If I am struggling I go to pinching the trigger with my thumb at the rear of the trigger guard.
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Re: Bullet seated too deep ???

Post by SCJ429 » 27 May 2019, 10:32 am

Don't use your left hand under the pistol grip, if you want to shoot without a rear bag use you left hand under the the stock below your face. There are also small tac bags you could consider, they are held in you hand and you squeeze them to get the desired height. These are used by PRC shooters in all sorts of difficult shooting positions.
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Re: Bullet seated too deep ???

Post by cirles » 27 May 2019, 12:16 pm

SCJ429,

Big thanks for all the tips here, genuinely appreciated that (as is all the input from everyone).

I do not have a chronograph so trying to find the node for the rifle is going to have to be based on group size alone I guess.

Regarding the bipod feet, will be getting at some stage feet used for bench type shooting, just did not at the time because of cost. I have no experience regarding how much 'bounce' is acceptable when shooting the Tikka TAC, but what I was shooting seemed to have plenty of it, so most likely me loading up too much (thinking to minimize movement of rifle) or my jury rigged rubber mat solution. Probably going to have to wait till I start the fly shooting & have someone observe how I actually shoot.

marksman suggested video was really good. Unfortunately the Tikka is a pistol grip rifle (needed that for the dodgy right arm (has very little wrist movement because of a destroyed elbow, which is where the majority of your wrist movement comes from), but contained some really useful info. on other aspects to focus on & evaluate movement issues from your positioning.

Thanks for the tip on the left hand positioning. The Tikka has a tactical style stock so placing a hand there is going to be uncomfortable to say the least, if not impossible, but your suggestion of the small tac bag sounds great, & something I will definitely explore (my thinking regarding use of the rifle is a portable, minimalist setup for where ever I would use it).
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