300 AAC Blackout fad over?

[JimTom]

Old thread I know but there seemed to be a lot of people initially talking down the 300AAC. Be interested to see if anyone has changed their opinion. I own one and use it as a close range hog buster off a vehicle. In saying that I have shot pigs in the 80-90kg range at 200m with it. It is a great little rig. My .308 Rarely gets used nowadays.

[JimTom]

Just to clarify my last sentence in the preceding post, I am not suggesting that my 300AAC has the same capability as my .308. Of course that cannot be physically possible or true.

[SCJ429]

If I had a 308 and I wanted a subsonic 30 cal I think I would make do with what I had. It is not hard to find a bullet that will do the job and slow it down a bit. But if the Blackout is what you want, then go for it. You are going to be hard pressed to wear out a barrel in this lifetime.

[JimTom]

I agree with you regarding .308 and subsonic loads, I would just use my .308 however I actually haven’t experimented with subsonics yet. Have been shooting 125gn SST out of it at circa 1900FPS. I was actually going to buy a 7.62x39 however the blackout offers a greater range of projectile of course being .308 instead of .311
I use it as a close range pig rifle as opposed to subsonic suppressed mode for which I guess it is mostly used for in the USA.

[mickb]

Its not so much 308 vs 300 blackout for finding a subsonic load- either will, its how quiet you want to go. Not sure if you all have used suppressors but there is a considerable difference between light and heavy charges of powder in them. The Blackout has half the capacity and should also be small enough to make use of the faster pistol/shotgun burning powers with the right bullets, aka down into single digit loads of powder. You wont be doing that with a 308win.

[bladeracer]

Its not so much 308 vs 300 blackout for finding a subsonic load- either will, its how quiet you want to go. Not sure if you all have used suppressors but there is a difference between a light and heavy charges of powder in them. The Blackout has half the capacity and should also be small enough to make use of the faster pistol/shotgun burning powers with the right bullets, aka down into single digit loads of powder. You wont be doing that with a 308win.

You can indeed get down to single-digit charges of Trailboss in .308Win, which you have to to go subsonic.
I've been down to 8gn loads in 8x57mm with subsonic 180gn bullets.

[in2anity]

I built up my RARR to shoot 3p practical comps on the 100m and 200m lines, with the occasional crossover into hunting. They are an extremely light, handy little rifle still with an adequate lop. It definitely holds its own on the 100m and 200m line. I'm yet to test it properly on the 300m line, but on those blustery days, at 300m I think you'd be up against it (vs true long range cartridges).

ruger.jpg (1.1 MiB) Viewed 5459 times

I like it because it's economical. It only takes about 17grs of (fastest) rifle powder to fully fill the case which yields around 2100fps out of the 16" barrel (using a 125gr 30cal pill). With decent bullets, that load bucks the wind well enough at 100m and 200m.

Nevertheless, I reckon It's a finicky little cartridge. The brass around the mouth is thin compared to a 308w (after all it's stretched 223 brass). This means your up against it with regard to neck tension (compared to the 308w). And from my experience fast powders prefer tighter necks when compared to medium powder; you've always got to work harder to get fast powders consistently grouping.

I had to turn down my (collet) die's mandrel a fair bit to get it to group - even then, it's not really a sub-moa cartridge. I'd say It's probably more a 1 moa cartridge. I've got mine shooting about 1moa for 5 shots at 100m (when shooting from a chair). But I'm far from shooting 1moa from the elbows, so that suits me just fine

[bladeracer]

I built up my RARR to shoot 3p practical comps on the 100m and 200m lines, with the occasional crossover into hunting. They are an extremely light, handy little rifle with an adequate lop. It definitely holds its own at 100m and 200m line. I'm yet to test it properly on the 300m line, but on those blustery days, at 300m I think you'd be up against it (against true long range cartridges).

ruger.jpg

I like it because it's economical. It only takes about 18grs of (fast) rifle powder to fully fill the case which yields around 2100fps out of the 16" barrel. With decent bullets it bucks the wind well enough at 100m and 200m.

Nevertheless, I reckon It's a finicky little cartridge. The brass around the mouth is thin compared to a 308w (after all it's stretched 223 brass). This means your up against it with regard to neck tension (compared to the 308w). And from my experience fast powders prefer tight necks when compared to medium burns. And you've always got to work harder to get fast powders grouping IMO.

I had to turn down my (collet) die a fair bit to get it to group - even then, it's not really a sub-moa cartridge. I've got mine shooting about 1moa for 5 shots at 100m (if I'm shooting from a chair). But I'm far from shooting 1moa from the elbows, so that suits me fine

Are you using bullets that take advantage of the 7"-twist?

[Tank]

Its not so much 308 vs 300 blackout for finding a subsonic load- either will, its how quiet you want to go. Not sure if you all have used suppressors but there is a difference between a light and heavy charges of powder in them. The Blackout has half the capacity and should also be small enough to make use of the faster pistol/shotgun burning powers with the right bullets, aka down into single digit loads of powder. You wont be doing that with a 308win.

One word....Trailboss.
8gr under 190gr CBE plain lead (Alox lubed) turns up 980fps. (Like shooting standard velocity .22lr....hearing safe)
300 BO/Whisper is all about the AR platform....
Had one, a Remington. It is nothing like as versatile as it’s made out to be and lasted less than twelve months in my safe as there’s really nothing special or magical about it.
Was introduced after Mogadishu as a more effective ‘stopper’ for Africans pinging off their heads and spawned masses of 5.56 COAL small, medium and big bores.
Realistically if it runs a brass case, centrefire primer, propellant and a projectile....there’s nothing new or miraculous about it....it’s all been done before.

[mickb]

Its not so much 308 vs 300 blackout for finding a subsonic load- either will, its how quiet you want to go. Not sure if you all have used suppressors but there is a difference between a light and heavy charges of powder in them. The Blackout has half the capacity and should also be small enough to make use of the faster pistol/shotgun burning powers with the right bullets, aka down into single digit loads of powder. You wont be doing that with a 308win.

You can indeed get down to single-digit charges of Trailboss in .308Win, which you have to to go subsonic.
I've been down to 8gn loads in 8x57mm with subsonic 180gn bullets.

Blade racer did you read where I said faster pistol/shotgun powders early in the sentence?

The blackout will be able to use loads of 60% that trailboss load, aka just a few grains of stuff like Win231, unique, CFE pistol, bullseye etc. As I said you wont be doing that in 308win. Pretty basic physics, its twice the capacity, and most these powders will not be safe to play with.

[mickb]

Its not so much 308 vs 300 blackout for finding a subsonic load- either will, its how quiet you want to go. Not sure if you all have used suppressors but there is a difference between a light and heavy charges of powder in them. The Blackout has half the capacity and should also be small enough to make use of the faster pistol/shotgun burning powers with the right bullets, aka down into single digit loads of powder. You wont be doing that with a 308win.

One word....Trailboss.
8gr under 190gr CBE plain lead (Alox lubed) turns up 980fps. (Like shooting standard velocity .22lr....hearing safe)
300 BO/Whisper is all about the AR platform....
Had one, a Remington. It is nothing like as versatile as it’s made out to be and lasted less than twelve months in my safe as there’s really nothing special or magical about it.
Was introduced after Mogadishu as a more effective ‘stopper’ for Africans pinging off their heads and spawned masses of 5.56 COAL small, medium and big bores.
Realistically if it runs a brass case, centrefire primer, propellant and a projectile....there’s nothing new or miraculous about it....it’s all been done before.

Read my reply to Blade racer mate. Well aware of TB, comment related to the fast burning pistol/shotgun powders which in a small case like the Blackout you can also play with, as its same capacity as some pistol cases. Down to half that trailboss load, half the noise, more loading options( AS-30N, As350N, win WST, Win 231, CFE pistol, Unique, Red Dot, etc). Several of them also use lighter charges for more velocity than TB. You can't do that with 308win.

There is a difference between chasing "anything subsonic" and tuning in on low noise and accuracy in small cases. Its another entire sport. Look at the difference between match 22LR and 22LR quiets, or 357 at 1050 and 850fps after all. Supressors pick up this difference as well, they don't just "silence stuff"

Lastly 22LR standard is not hearing safe mate.Feel free not to use hearing protection, i hardly did in the day either lol, but maybe not the best idea claiming that on a public forum, its 130DB-140DB, and thats into hearing damage

[bladeracer]

Blade racer did you read where I said faster pistol/shotgun powders early in the sentence?

The blackout will be able to use loads of 60% that trailboss load, aka just a few grains of stuff like Win231, unique, CFE pistol, bullseye etc. As I said you wont be doing that in 308win. Pretty basic physics, its twice the capacity, and most these powders will not be safe to play with.

Yep, I was referring to your incorrect statement that the BLK being smaller-capacity allows you to load down to single-digit charges, which you won't be doing with .308 - you can do that with .308. It's worth noting that ADI actually list a 10gn TB starting load for .308Win, which is under their own "60% capacity rule"...again.

[bladeracer]

Read my reply to Blade racer above mate. Well aware of TB. My comment related to the fast burning pistol/shotgun powders which in a small case like the blackout you can also play with. Down to half that trailboss load, half the noise, more loading options( AS-30N, As350N, win WST, Win 231, CFE pistol, Unique, Red Dot, etc). Several of them also use lighter charges for more velocity than TB. You can't do that with 308win.

I seem to spend a lot of time explaining this to supersonic hunters, there is a different between chasing "anything subsonic" and tuning in on low noise and accuracy in small cases. Its it's own sport. There is a big difference between match 22LR and 22LR quiets, or 357 at 1050 and 850fps after all. Supressors pick up this difference as well, they don't just "silence stuff"

Lastly 22LR standard is not hearing safe mate.Feel free not to use hearing protection yourself but maybe not the best idea claiming that on a public forum, its 130DB-140DB, and thats into hearing damage

I haven't tried pistol powders in the larger rifle cartridges so I can't comment on those, but TB does indeed "top out" on velocity, regardless of how much more powder you jam into the case. In 8x57mm I get virtually the same velocity for any charge from 14gn to 19gn of Trailboss behind a 180gn cast bullet - around 1400fps. Similar in the .243, but I did find a little better accuracy by continuing to increase the charge without gaining more velocity. In 7mm-08 8.5gn of TB gives me 920fps with a 145gn jacketed soft-point.

Standard velocity is quieter than that, 130-140dBa is for high-velocity .22LR. I wear hearing protection for supersonic .22LR, but not for anything subsonic. I would wear it if I was shooting a fair amount of hotter stuff but not for a few groups. I was shooting some 12ga. 28gm 1300fps loads the other day without hearing protection and it didn't make my ears ring at all. I think it's still a free country where we get to make those choices for ourselves. If I have people with me though, they get hearing protection. I was surprised when I attended a .22LR Benchrest shoot that they didn't require hearing protection.

[Tank]

Mickb....22lr standard from a rifle IS hearing safe all day everyday from a rifle in the open.
Suppression is a far greater factor in quietness than the charge used. The appropriate volume of the suppressor will render hi velocity centrefire ammo hearing safe....let alone subsonics.
But I’m not picking a brawl.
It’s a forum. We don’t have to all agree.

[mickb]

Yep, I was referring to your incorrect statement that the BLK being smaller-capacity allows you to load down to single-digit charges,

No you are attributing a context to make your argument applicable. My comment that you wont be loading down to single digits "with fast burning pistol/shotguns powders" like those used in 300AAC still holds. The fast burning/pistol shotgun powder I have now posted twice.

I can only apply a context and then clarify if there is a misunderstanding. Anything else is how badly someone wants to use a comment for a launch pad on semantics.

[mickb]

Mickb....22lr standard from a rifle IS hearing safe all day everyday from a rifle in the open.
Suppression is a far greater factor in quietness than the charge used. The appropriate volume of the suppressor will render hi velocity centrefire ammo hearing safe....let alone subsonics.
But I’m not picking a brawl.
It’s a forum. We don’t have to all agree.

Tank, sorry its not about brawling, its just that you are plain wrong and this is dangerous misconception you are under.

22LR standard is not classed as hearing safe anywhere, in the open or enclosed, though a case could be made for when its used in 28" + barrels when the pressure and velocity has dropped.

Anything else no way. Ask any range officer in the world. Ask anyone taking cadets for 22LR shooting in the world if they say "hell kids don't wear hearing protection for the standard stuff, bare ears only today"

Do you also notice no company classes their standard vel products as hearing safe? They only claim it for quiets and caps under 800fps...

As to your comments on Suppressors, thanks I've used them. The charge has an impact on the noise as well.

[bladeracer]

No you are attributing a context to make your argument applicable. My comment that you wont be loading down to single digits "with fast burning pistol/shotguns powders" like those used in 300AAC still holds. The fast burning/pistol shotgun powder I have now posted twice.

I can only apply a context and then clarify if there is a misunderstanding. Anything else is how badly someone wants to use a comment for a launch pad on semantics.

Isn't Trailboss a "fast-burning pistol powder"? It's faster than Unique.
I think any confusion stems from your poorly-worded post.

[in2anity]

Are you using bullets that take advantage of the 7"-twist?

Nah I'm yet to experiment with that Blade, and may never. I didn't really buy the rifle for that reason. And that's actually a negative - If I had my way I'd slow the twist and shorten the throat to match the shorter varmint style 30cal pills. The jump to lands must currently be bretty massive...

With respect to the other talk about TB - I've found almost a full case of TB under a 150gr hunting pill to be very accurate in my 308. Around 14gr from memory. Definitely supersonic, but far from being ear-splitting. You can pop the odd one of those off without hearing protection and too much discomfort. That's all I need for expansion under 100m. It's a good roo/fox/goat load.

[bladeracer]

Tank, sorry its not about brawling, its just that you are plain wrong and this is dangerous misconception you are under.

22LR standard is not classed as hearing safe anywhere, in the open or enclosed, though a case could be made for when its used in 28" + barrels when the pressure and velocity has dropped.

Anything else no way. Ask any range officer in the world. Ask anyone taking cadets for 22LR shooting in the world if they say "hell kids don't wear hearing protection for the standard stuff, bare ears only today"

Do you also notice no company classes their standard vel products as hearing safe? They only claim it for quiets and caps under 800fps...

As to your comments on Suppressors, thanks I've used them. The charge has an impact on the noise as well.

I'm not sure about this.
It seems to be that 110dB regular exposure for more than sixty-seconds causes permanent hearing damage. Long or repeated exposures above 85dB can cause hearing damage.
In Australia it seems to be that no employee can be exposed to over 140dB, at all. But up to 85dB is fine over an entire eight-hour shift.
I'm thinking standard velocity ammo is just fine, except for long and prolonged exposure.
https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/noise

[bladeracer]

Nah I'm yet to experiment with that Blade, and may never. I didn't really buy the rifle for that reason. And that's actually a negative - If I had my way I'd slow the twist and shorten the throat to match the shorter varmint style 30cal pills. The jump to lands must currently be bretty massive...

With respect to the other talk about TB - I've found almost a full case of TB under a 150gr hunting pill to be very accurate in my 308. Around 14gr from memory. Definitely supersonic, but far from being ear-splitting. You can pop the odd one of those off without hearing protection and too much discomfort. That's all I need for expansion under 100m. It's a good roo/fox/goat load.

Have you never measured the throat? My .223 Predator is long, letting me load ELD bullets out to 2.450", way longer than .223Rem ammunition specs of .2.260".

I think the only thing 300BLK has going for it is the twist-rate, if you don't need it then a .308 is a much better choice, in my opinion. You can shoot both of them subsonic with bullets up to about 180gn. I've been up to 17.5gn of TB behind a 145gn jacketed bullet in 7mm-08 for 1550-ish fps. I shoot those without hearing protection.

[SCJ429]

CCI claim their Quiet ammunition to be 68 Db. That is not bad.

[in2anity]

I think the only thing 300BLK has going for it is the twist-rate, if you don't need it then a .308 is a much better choice, in my opinion.

Yeah I think I’d tend to agree - I’ve got the collet die with an undersized mandrel for the 308 now and it’s equally as trivial to load for.

I put it to you though Blade - what do you think the most optimal way to achieve say 2100fps with a 125gr pill is in the 308? Btw half cases of powder don’t sit well with me

[mickb]

I'm not sure about this.
It seems to be that 110dB regular exposure for more than sixty-seconds causes permanent hearing damage. Long or repeated exposures above 85dB can cause hearing damage.
In Australia it seems to be that no employee can be exposed to over 140dB, at all. But up to 85dB is fine over an entire eight-hour shift.
I'm thinking standard velocity ammo is just fine, except for long and prolonged exposure.
https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/noise

mate 'thinking something is fine' is pretty poor position to have on a safety related subject. Im guessing your not an OHS officer

Its generally agreed 135-140 is the 'threshold of pain' for impulse noise, where instant damage can occur. Different countries have different levels advised, but they generally agree hearing loss will occur lower than that through repeated exposures> plenty of articles out there.

Most the 22LR standard figures I have seen are about 135- 141 DB , generally the lower figure if barrel is longer.

Probably why the companies don't print 'hearing safe' on it, only the actual hearing safe stuff.

I guess I am a bit careful having had hearing damage from the army and also reading into it. Most the experts can't agree we can even measure sound impulse accurately. Also its not as simple as 140DB = xyz damage. Different types of noise destroy different frequency hairs in the ear. Shotguns hit lower freqs for example, rifles hit higher freqs.

But I am a little suprised people want to ride this margin of risk at all. Ask on a US forum and see what the reaction is. I don't think I have seen many ranges recommend new starters go 'bare eared ' shooting with 22LR .

And Tank, aside from the 22LR/safety side of things anyway, the 8 grain load of trailboss you compared it to is going to be a lot louder than that anyway.

[mickb]

No you are attributing a context to make your argument applicable. My comment that you wont be loading down to single digits "with fast burning pistol/shotguns powders" like those used in 300AAC still holds. The fast burning/pistol shotgun powder I have now posted twice.

I can only apply a context and then clarify if there is a misunderstanding. Anything else is how badly someone wants to use a comment for a launch pad on semantics.

Isn't Trailboss a "fast-burning pistol powder"? It's faster than Unique.
I think any confusion stems from your poorly-worded post.

Ah the nature of our misunderstanding reveals itself. I didn't include trailboss a fast burning pistol/shotun powder for this discussion( though it was designed as such I agree) but as a special purpose powder.

[bladeracer]

I think the only thing 300BLK has going for it is the twist-rate, if you don't need it then a .308 is a much better choice, in my opinion.

Yeah I think I’d tend to agree - I’ve got a collet die with an undersized mandrel for the 308 now and it’s equally as trivial to load for.

I put it to you though Blade - what do you think the most optimal way to achieve say 2100fps with a 125gr pill is in the 308? Btw half cases of powder don’t sit well with me

Well, I don't have .308 as yet, but I shoot the Berry's 123gn .311" Copper-Plated bullet in .30-06. 15gn of TB makes around 1700fps in the '03-A3. I haven't chronoed it in my '03-A3, but I ran it through a neighbour's Remington 700 at 1650fps. I'm extrapolating as I did run a 180gn Interlock load in both our rifles - his made 2580fps while mine made 2700fps. I haven't tried a full case of TB in .30-06, but I doubt it would make 2100fps, but it might get pretty close. I've gotten over 2100fps in .243 with 58gn VMax on TB.

Looking at ADI data, I would use AR2206H. Barrel length will play a significant role in making 2100fps at the muzzle. My 22" Rugers give me muzzle velocities very similar to what ADI list, in a wide variety of cartridges. They offer 45gn of AR2206H for 2900fps to 49gn for 3130fps, so I'd look around the 40gn level. The 49gn is a compressed load so 40gn won't leave heaps of space.

I got distracted, the bloody neighbour's cows have kicked the fence down and gorged themselves on the hundreds of trees Rose planted for a shelter belt three years ago.

[bladeracer]

mate 'thinking something is fine' is pretty poor position to have on a safety related subject. Im guessing your not an OHS officer

Its generally agreed 135-140 is the 'threshold of pain' for impulse noise, where instant damage can occur. Different countries have different levels advised, but they generally agree hearing loss will occur lower than that through repeated exposures> plenty of articles out there.

Most the 22LR standard figures I have seen are about 135- 141 DB , generally the lower figure if barrel is longer.

Probably why the companies don't print 'hearing safe' on it, only the actual hearing safe stuff.

I guess I am a bit careful having had hearing damage from the army and also reading into it. Most the experts can't agree we can even measure sound impulse accurately. Also its not as simple as 140DB = xyz damage. Different types of noise destroy different frequency hairs in the ear. Shotguns hit lower freqs for example, rifles hit higher freqs.

But I am a little suprised people want to ride this margin of risk at all. Ask on a US forum and see what the reaction is. I don't think I have seen many ranges recommend new starters go 'bare eared ' shooting with 22LR .

And Tank, aside from the 22LR/safety side of things anyway, the 8 grain load of trailboss you compared it to is going to be a lot louder than that anyway.

I disagree, I think "just fine" is a realistic position to have, especially when it's supported by the science. I don't disagree though that some people are bothered by different levels of sound, it's quite individual. I have significant hearing damage myself, from shooting, motorcycle riding/racing, and working on building sites. I just hate wearing ear plugs or muffs, just a personal comfort thing, and usually my choice. In IPSC competition I was required to wear ear and eye protection, when I was practicing on my own I generally didn't bother, except if I was shooting inside a vehicle or building. I have certainly felt pain from some high-velocity rifles - 4400fps .204 is painful, also 4000fps .243.

I shoot subsonic TB loads in everything, and I experience no pain from anything subsonic. Once I exceed the 1120fps-ish level and get the sonic crack, it's unpleasant. But very tolerable up to about 2200fps or so. As I said though, if I'm shooting a lot of supersonic loads I'll wear muffs or plugs, like during load development.

[mickb]

I disagree, I think "just fine" is a realistic position to have, especially when it's supported by the science.

Its not supported Did you read my post?

135-140 DB are the thresholds of pain and immediate damage in most countries and 22LR usually gets 135-141 DB ratings( for subsonic ammunition). High velocity is higher, 140+

https://www.silencershop.com/blog/post/ ... t-results/
https://www.dakotasilencer.com/wp-conte ... _chart.pdf
https://www.coursehero.com/file/p4fh290 ... to-be-the/

So its not classed as hearing safe. Sure it may not be doing damage like a 223 by any means, but its still not hearing safe.

I don't disagree though that some people are bothered by different levels of sound, it's quite individual. I have significant hearing damage myself, from shooting, motorcycle riding/racing, and working on building sites. I just hate wearing ear plugs or muffs, just a personal comfort thing, and usually my choice. In IPSC competition I was required to wear ear and eye protection, when I was practicing on my own I generally didn't bother, except if I was shooting inside a vehicle or building. I have certainly felt pain from some high-velocity rifles - 4400fps .204 is painful, also 4000fps .243.

I shoot subsonic TB loads in everything, and I experience no pain from anything subsonic. Once I exceed the 1120fps-ish level and get the sonic crack, it's unpleasant. But very tolerable up to about 2200fps or so. As I said though, if I'm shooting a lot of supersonic loads I'll wear muffs or plugs, like during load development.

Feelings, sensitivity to hearing and percieved pain are interesting subjects but not related to hearing safety. Most hearing loss is painless, cumulative, and has nothing to do with how you feel about the noise.

[bladeracer]

I disagree, I think "just fine" is a realistic position to have, especially when it's supported by the science.

Its not supported by the science. Did you read my post?

135-140 DB are the thresholds of pain and immediate damage in most countries and 22LR usually gets 135-141 DB ratings.

Its not classed as hearing safe. Sure it may not be doing damage like a 223 by any means, but its still not hearing safe..

I don't disagree though that some people are bothered by different levels of sound, it's quite individual. I have significant hearing damage myself, from shooting, motorcycle riding/racing, and working on building sites. I just hate wearing ear plugs or muffs, just a personal comfort thing, and usually my choice. In IPSC competition I was required to wear ear and eye protection, when I was practicing on my own I generally didn't bother, except if I was shooting inside a vehicle or building. I have certainly felt pain from some high-velocity rifles - 4400fps .204 is painful, also 4000fps .243.

I shoot subsonic TB loads in everything, and I experience no pain from anything subsonic. Once I exceed the 1120fps-ish level and get the sonic crack, it's unpleasant. But very tolerable up to about 2200fps or so. As I said though, if I'm shooting a lot of supersonic loads I'll wear muffs or plugs, like during load development.

Feelings, sensitivity to hearing and percieved pain are interesting subjects but not related to hearing safety. Most hearing loss is painless, cumulative, and has nothing to do with how you feel about the noise.

I dont judge people on their decisions and I am not here to preach. I made some bad health ones myself, still am. But on the issue of 22LR standard being judged safe all day every day as tank says, according to the experts, it just isn't.

I still disagree with you that standard velocity makes 130-140dB, the only time I've seen that level offered is for high-velocity .22LR. Even at 130dB though, Worksafe classes it as acceptable for non-prolonged exposure, like firing some shots from a rifle. According to Worksafe it is hearing safe outside of prolonged exposure.

[bladeracer]

I just did a quick Google and found some numbers for CCI Std Vel - around 115dB in pistol and rifle supressed, 140dB for unsupressed rifle.
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1517

[mickb]

I still disagree with you that standard velocity makes 130-140dB, the only time I've seen that level offered is for high-velocity .22LR. Even at 130dB though, Worksafe classes it as acceptable for non-prolonged exposure, like firing some shots from a rifle. According to Worksafe it is hearing safe outside of prolonged exposure.

Plenty of figures for 22LR standard at 138-141DB.

https://www.silencershop.com/blog/post/ ... t-results/
https://www.dakotasilencer.com/wp-conte ... _chart.pdf
https://www.coursehero.com/file/p4fh290 ... to-be-the/

Again the experts cant agree on precise levels, but when you have overlap the consensus to to be conservative towards safety. Which is why the companies themselves don't even call their standard ammo 'hearing safe'