Sako L461

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Sako L461

Post by Hunter257 » 08 Jul 2019, 2:53 pm

thinking of getting a Sako A1 chambered in .222
What are your thoughts guys?
and is this the 461 vixen in a later guise?
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Re: Sako L461

Post by bigrich » 08 Jul 2019, 3:47 pm

by reputation a fantastic rifle . i myself have a model 70 winchester in 222. silly accurate , not overly hard to get a 222 to shoot really well, great caliber. buy it and handload for it . if the barrels good you won't regret it :thumbsup:

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Re: Sako L461

Post by TassieTiger » 08 Jul 2019, 5:34 pm

I was really, really surprised to read the latest SSAA magazine RE sako review in regards to accuracy(model was finnlight from memory) ...wasn’t great at all.
by all my accounts, sako are “the” factory barrels to have...a friend has a sako Black b 222 and it shoots same hole all day.
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Re: Sako L461

Post by deanp100 » 08 Jul 2019, 5:50 pm

I have an L461 heavy barrel and they are beautiful rifles . It is very rare to hear of one that doesn’t shoot well. The a1 is the later 461. Identical in every way except the shroud at the rear of the bolt.
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Re: Sako L461

Post by bigfellascott » 08 Jul 2019, 6:48 pm

Mine was a dud so I sold it!
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Re: Sako L461

Post by deanp100 » 08 Jul 2019, 7:59 pm

bigfellascott wrote:Mine was a dud so I sold it!
I thought about you as I wrote my reply.
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Re: Sako L461

Post by TassieTiger » 08 Jul 2019, 8:36 pm

deanp100 wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:Mine was a dud so I sold it!
I thought about you as I wrote my reply.


That’s amazes me...but proves there’s good / bad in any brand...
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Re: Sako L461

Post by bigfellascott » 08 Jul 2019, 8:51 pm

TassieTiger wrote:
deanp100 wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:Mine was a dud so I sold it!
I thought about you as I wrote my reply.


That’s amazes me...but proves there’s good / bad in any brand...


It wasn't the brands fault, a mate put a bore scope down it and it had pitting so it was never going to be a great shooter (the pitfall of buying 2nd hand I guess) and it was one of their "Strawter" barrels which are very thin and renowned for being poor shooters (didn't know at the time) and the other thing I couldn't stand about the rifle was it's ****** trigger, what a pill of puss they were back then, I had it modified and still it was way crappy

It pointed beautifully and felt great in the hand but end of the day if it don't shoot good enough for my standards it's out the door simple as that. :thumbsup:
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Re: Sako L461

Post by Hunter257 » 08 Jul 2019, 11:12 pm

thanks for the feedback guys.
Already have a tikka t3 in 222 and really enjoy shooting it, so think I will go ahead and grab the A1
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Re: Sako L461

Post by bigfellascott » 09 Jul 2019, 5:52 am

Hunter257 wrote:thanks for the feedback guys.
Already have a tikka t3 in 222 and really enjoy shooting it, so think I will go ahead and grab the A1


Make sure you put a bore scope down it first before buying it mate and make sure you see the condition of it before you buy it, not much good buying it if the barrels stuffed. :thumbsup:

Good luck
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Re: Sako L461

Post by deanp100 » 09 Jul 2019, 7:28 am

bigfellascott wrote:
Hunter257 wrote:thanks for the feedback guys.
Already have a tikka t3 in 222 and really enjoy shooting it, so think I will go ahead and grab the A1


Make sure you put a bore scope down it first before buying it mate and make sure you see the condition of it before you buy it, not much good buying it if the barrels stuffed. :thumbsup:

Good luck

True, been a great gun 40 years ago doesn’t necessarily mean it is still good. Lots of pro shooters used them so there is always the possibility it is well worn. Goes for any brand. Your trigger comments surprises me though. Mine is lightened by adjustment only and has a trigger shoe and is nice. I have felt a few spectacular L461 triggers that I assume were played with a bit. Never felt a bad one.
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Re: Sako L461

Post by bigfellascott » 09 Jul 2019, 8:18 am

deanp100 wrote:
bigfellascott wrote:
Hunter257 wrote:thanks for the feedback guys.
Already have a tikka t3 in 222 and really enjoy shooting it, so think I will go ahead and grab the A1


Make sure you put a bore scope down it first before buying it mate and make sure you see the condition of it before you buy it, not much good buying it if the barrels stuffed. :thumbsup:

Good luck

True, been a great gun 40 years ago doesn’t necessarily mean it is still good. Lots of pro shooters used them so there is always the possibility it is well worn. Goes for any brand. Your trigger comments surprises me though. Mine is lightened by adjustment only and has a trigger shoe and is nice. I have felt a few spectacular L461 triggers that I assume were played with a bit. Never felt a bad one.
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Yeah I would have thought the trigger would be better Deano, but nope it was a pill of puss compared to my Howas, even after springs being changed and a bit of honing etc, my next step was to put a Trigger Shoe on it to see if that made it feel any better but a friend wanted the rifle right or wrong so he bought it and he has a cajar trigger for it and will rebarrel it (he's a Sakophile) and can't get enough of em.

Honestly after owning one I can't really see what all the fuss is really about, yes they are a nice rifle and well finished but honestly you can get some pretty decent rifles these days that are just as nice and really don't need any real work to make them shoot well.

I'll stick with my Howa's from now on, the only thing they need is a change of springs in the trigger and a polish and the triggers are excellent in them as a rule, I just buy the barreled actions and put my own stocks on em and for less than $1k I have an excellent shooter. I've been using Howa's for about 35yrs maybe longer and never been disappointed in the decision to buy one, they just plain shoot and get the job done without fuss and all the expense of some of the more fancied brands. :drinks: :drinks:
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Re: Sako L461

Post by Member-Deleted » 09 Jul 2019, 10:31 am

Sorry to high jack this post but have to ask this BFS what sort of life are you getting out of your Howa barrels over the 35yrs as my son is still looking for a 300 or 338
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Re: Sako L461

Post by bigfellascott » 09 Jul 2019, 7:54 pm

Sorry to high jack this post but have to ask this BFS what sort of life are you getting out of your Howa barrels over the 35yrs as my son is still looking for a 300 or 338


I haven't had to rebarrel one yet :lol: really how longs a piece of string type thing, I guess life depends on Cal, how hard you push projies out em, how good your maintenance is, how many shots a min, is it used at a range shooting holes in paper repeatedly where barrels get hot or out in the field hunting/pest control etc - I couldn't tell you how many rounds I've put down any of my rifles with any degree of accuracy, I've got better things to do whilst out hunting than to worry about was that round 4094 or 4095 down the tube :D

I think worrying about how many rounds down the tube is more a paper pokers thing than it is a hunters thing TBH, it's never something I've ever given any consideration to TBH :thumbsup:
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Re: Sako L461

Post by solarpak » 09 Jul 2019, 9:00 pm

TassieTiger wrote:I was really, really surprised to read the latest SSAA magazine RE sako review in regards to accuracy(model was finnlight from memory) ...wasn’t great at all.
by all my accounts, sako are “the” factory barrels to have...a friend has a sako Black b 222 and it shoots same hole all day.



Tiger, you referring to the Finnlight II in 308?
Well if you are - your's truely did the review on thus rifle for the SSAA and the results are as published - using factory ammo!

Factory ammo is always going to be hit and miss in any production rifle "off the shelf" - heck i have tested and reviewed enough rifles to see this. You may get one brand of factory ammo which a rifle loves - and some that it hates.
Most rifles i review are supplied new and it takes some range time for any new barrel to eventually bed in and group sizes do get smaller after 50-75 rounds. But reviewing a rifle i, at best 60-75 rounds tops - with no barrel break in - only a thorough clean before testing and between changes in ammo brand.
If you want a tack-driver - hand-load - its that simple!

What accuracy do hunters expect out of a lightweight 308 sporter ? Personally for me if it shoots a three shot group at 1.5 MOA (approx 42mm) at 100 metres (not yards) then it can take any game animal out to 300 metres without a problem - i will leave long range hunting to the experts out there!!

CK
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Re: Sako L461

Post by Member-Deleted » 09 Jul 2019, 9:25 pm

Yeah thanks BFS I probably asked the wrong thing or put it wrong what I was just wondering how the howa went compared to other rifles and maybe you had some idea of how many you have put through them as a cricket score goes I am interested to see how they shape up since the trouble I've had with both my sakos nothing wrong with the action and barrels but the stocks are lacking in quality control the laminated one peeled after a couple of weeks from new and the 7mag stock ''synthetic'' is too soft on the fore end and the 7mag won't pick up the first bullet from the mag and for the price i'd expect a rifle that had no problems even though I could expect small hick ups with any brand of rifle
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Re: Sako L461

Post by SCJ429 » 09 Jul 2019, 9:43 pm

Tough job CK, go down to the range and shoot off a couple of hundred rounds out of a new Sako. The thing I didn't like about your article is that the accuracy table group size was in mm. Nobody over 18 knows if a 20mm group is good or bad. You did say in the article that 1MOA was 28mm, you had enough room to put MOA into the table. Other than that I enjoyed your write up.
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Re: Sako L461

Post by TassieTiger » 09 Jul 2019, 9:54 pm

solarpak wrote:
TassieTiger wrote:I was really, really surprised to read the latest SSAA magazine RE sako review in regards to accuracy(model was finnlight from memory) ...wasn’t great at all.
by all my accounts, sako are “the” factory barrels to have...a friend has a sako Black b 222 and it shoots same hole all day.



Tiger, you referring to the Finnlight II in 308?
Well if you are - your's truely did the review on thus rifle for the SSAA and the results are as published - using factory ammo!

Factory ammo is always going to be hit and miss in any production rifle "off the shelf" - heck i have tested and reviewed enough rifles to see this. You may get one brand of factory ammo which a rifle loves - and some that it hates.
Most rifles i review are supplied new and it takes some range time for any new barrel to eventually bed in and group sizes do get smaller after 50-75 rounds. But reviewing a rifle i, at best 60-75 rounds tops - with no barrel break in - only a thorough clean before testing and between changes in ammo brand.
If you want a tack-driver - hand-load - its that simple!

What accuracy do hunters expect out of a lightweight 308 sporter ? Personally for me if it shoots a three shot group at 1.5 MOA (approx 42mm) at 100 metres (not yards) then it can take any game animal out to 300 metres without a problem - i will leave long range hunting to the experts out there!!

CK


Thanks for the heads up and congrats on the article/s.

What kind of accuracy do ppl expect from a light weight sporter ? Well - given that there are many, many sub $1000, light weight 308 rifles now on the market, that are guaranteed to shoot sub Moa from factory ammunition, I’d expect a $4000+ rifle to shoot better than the results you achieved...
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CZ455 .22 & Norinco .22 (vtex 4-12, bush 3-9)
ATA 686 U/O 12g & Baikal S/S 12g.
Adler a110 reddot
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Re: Sako L461

Post by SCJ429 » 09 Jul 2019, 10:08 pm

Start a petition Tassie to get the SSAA to ask Brendan Atkinson to do some load development with that same Sako and see what groups he can get. It might show us the true potential of that barrel. No disrespect to Con's shooting ability.
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Re: Sako L461

Post by GQshayne » 09 Jul 2019, 10:16 pm

SCJ429 wrote:Tough job CK, go down to the range and shoot off a couple of hundred rounds out of a new Sako. The thing I didn't like about your article is that the accuracy table group size was in mm. Nobody over 18 knows if a 20mm group is good or bad. You did say in the article that 1MOA was 28mm, you had enough room to put MOA into the table. Other than that I enjoyed your write up.


Well, there you go. I prefer exactly the opposite. I think in this day and age everything should be metric. Perhaps with imperial measurements in brackets for you old fogies. I am only 48, so metric suits me fine. :roll:

I must admit to agreeing with other comments on the Sako. I was a little surprised that accuracy was not better with supplied ammunition. Certainly it fulfils its purpose as Solarpak suggests, however many of its competitors will do the same at a lesser price point, and be just as accurate if not more so. Perhaps given the time actual ownership permits, more suitable factory ammo could be found, or of course handloads developed.
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Re: Sako L461

Post by SCJ429 » 09 Jul 2019, 10:24 pm

All the data we get is from the US, all my calipers are Imperial. It would be very annoying if powder and bullet weights were in grams and not grains.

I shot 24mm at 300 using a 6.3 gram bullet using 2.4 grams of 2208.
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Re: Sako L461

Post by TassieTiger » 10 Jul 2019, 1:36 am

SCJ429 wrote:Start a petition Tassie to get the SSAA to ask Brendan Atkinson to do some load development with that same Sako and see what groups he can get. It might show us the true potential of that barrel. No disrespect to Con's shooting ability.


I’m kind of glad to read results like Con published - i cannot imagine sako or supplier would be thrilled with anything less that clover leaf, this kind of proves he’s publishing the truth / reality - I hope. (Unless of course he owns a few shares elsewhere lol) - joke!!!!
Of course a sports rifle doesn’t have to shoot Moa for its intended design, but faced with a choice between one that does and one that does not - regardless of the ammunition utilised - who is choosing the lesser? Then there’s perception - if XX can shoot that model rifle sub Moa, at 100, then at least I know that it’s possible...but

I’d imagine that all SSAA contributors are at least better than average marksman (no offence to Marksman lol) so how many readers see the sako (or kimber for that matter) article and think s**t...$4k and a marksman = 1.5/2.0 Moa so withittle ol me shooting would be 2.5-3 Moa...?
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Sauer 30-06 - VX 3
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Re: Sako L461

Post by Hunter257 » 10 Jul 2019, 3:12 pm

okay so have now bought the sako
will have to see how it shoots this weekend when I get some time to take it down the range
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Re: Sako L461

Post by bigfellascott » 10 Jul 2019, 5:31 pm

Hunter257 wrote:okay so have now bought the sako
will have to see how it shoots this weekend when I get some time to take it down the range


Good luck with it mate, I hope she's a keeper and you put a bore scope down the pipe, if she's a good bore it should be a good little rifle alright. :thumbsup:

P.S. don't forget to report back on how she goes ok. :drinks:
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Re: Sako L461

Post by SCJ429 » 10 Jul 2019, 8:42 pm

Hunter257 wrote:okay so have now bought the sako
will have to see how it shoots this weekend when I get some time to take it down the range


What caliber did you get it in? Do you reload?
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Re: Sako L461

Post by solarpak » 11 Jul 2019, 9:48 pm

Gentlemen,

referring to any range test i do i will always report the findings as i get them with factory ammunition - and usually 4-5 different off-the-shelf brands.
Ozzie Reviews only fires a single shot group through his test rifles (of each ammo brand) and makes an assumption with that single group (no disrespect to the guy too).

Sure thing, handholds will give much better groups - and Brendan Atkinson always used to run a few handholds when he tested for the SSAA. Other reviewers do the same - but as i dont handlload i cant report on that aspect of it.

Sure - as reviewers we can "sugar coat" things and say the higher the price of the rifle the better groups it will shoot - that may be case or not. My perspective for someone looking to buy a rifle that i review for the SSAA is to test it out at 100 metres and shoot a few 3-shot groups with normal hunting and match ammo - and let the numbers speak for themselves. We are lucky that almost all rifles made these days are of very high quality and will shoot very well - its just a matter of finding a load that you are happy with for your intended use - and stick with it.

Now i always use metric - working in the scientific field - mm, cm, metres etc.... Yes inches and yards are widely used as are other imperial units but for consistency i always report in metric.

CK
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Re: Sako L461

Post by solarpak » 11 Jul 2019, 9:56 pm

While the iron is still hot.....one of my first centerfires was a stainless Howa M1500 in 223. i just walked into my local dealer and picked up the first ammo i saw - winchester white box 55 gr SP's in 50 rounds per box.
That rifle shot 5-shot groups under half MOA all day - and i certainly wasn't a benchrest shoot back then ( and aint one now some 20 years later!!!)

Its just luck that that rifle liked that factory load........

I am a firm believer that handholds will always wring the best out of any rifle and maybe one day i will enter the hand loading fold.......

CK
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Re: Sako L461

Post by solarpak » 11 Jul 2019, 10:01 pm

Hunter257 wrote:okay so have now bought the sako
will have to see how it shoots this weekend when I get some time to take it down the range


Hunter,
i have owned several sakos in my time and all have been excellent rifles - top notch workmanship and pride of ownership.

Actually a good mate asked me the other day - "what is the best hunting rifle on the market" - probably just to stir me - i replied - ' the next one you will be buying!!"

As i mentioned before - its just comes down to what you can afford and like .....and if that makes you happy - then thats all that matters . In this day and age, being happy doing what we love in shooting and hunting is what matters, hey?

CK
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Re: Sako L461

Post by SCJ429 » 11 Jul 2019, 10:48 pm

solarpak wrote:


Now i always use metric - working in the scientific field - mm, cm, metres etc.... Yes inches and yards are widely used as are other imperial units but for consistency i always report in metric.

CK


It was just a suggestion CK, if you used MOA a bunch of guys like me would understand your data better without you compromising on your metric only standards. It is not possible to only use metric only in life. Time and angles are not expressed that way. One second is 1/3600 and one minute is 1/60th.

Just out of interest, when you were working in a scientific field when did you use centimetres as units of measure? Did you also use decimetres?
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Re: Sako L461

Post by SCJ429 » 11 Jul 2019, 10:56 pm

It is very difficult to report on shooting and remain metric when you are reviewing a .308 of an inch caliber which has a 1:10 inches twist barrel which is shooting 165 grain Barnes bullet.
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