Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Rimfire bolt action rifles, lever action, pump action and self loading rifles. Air rifles.

Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 28 Jul 2019, 8:28 pm

I think you cannot import a scope due to ITAR plus need a import permit. Plus plenty of local options. Tbh I have gotten a few good second hand steals of scopes.. like a 12x42x nightforce for 1k, or a Leopold 8x25 for $550. And with lifetime warranty on good scopes I won't bother.

Anyway I have shot my 22lr using eley standard that is just above subsonic, and it...as not too loud.. the wife cannot hear me shooting in the house. Plenty cheap and accurate. If you have a slight height advantage then I don't think you will have any issues shooting 100m rabbits with a 22lr.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by pomemax » 28 Jul 2019, 9:05 pm

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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by xcb » 28 Jul 2019, 9:16 pm

bladeracer wrote:When you say two years ago, was it before April 2017, when ITAR screwed up US exports?

It was after that in Oct 2017, and a second order in Jun 2018. I guess SWFA must be willing to do the ITAR paper work for a select group of countries on their SWFA SS scopes. We can't just place an order on their website, we have to email the order so that SWFA can provide the shipping quote (via UPS, shipping is expensive) and do the export paper work. I'm glad they are willing to take orders for the SS fixed scopes.
At the time the only other fixed power scope in fairly high power option I knew of that should survive on a springer was the Leupold FX-3 Silhouette, I could not afford it, I notice that Leupold have stopped making them now. (Edit: Also the FX-3 Silhoutte was not suitable as it could only focus down to 50 yards).
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by ramshackle » 28 Jul 2019, 9:46 pm

From the SWFA site:

SWFA, Inc. now to exports to the Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom only. International customers should contact International@SWFA.com for all inquiries and special order instructions.

https://www.swfa.com/exportpolicy
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by bladeracer » 29 Jul 2019, 3:40 am

Ziad wrote:I think you cannot import a scope due to ITAR plus need a import permit. Plus plenty of local options. Tbh I have gotten a few good second hand steals of scopes.. like a 12x42x nightforce for 1k, or a Leopold 8x25 for $550. And with lifetime warranty on good scopes I won't bother.

Anyway I have shot my 22lr using eley standard that is just above subsonic, and it...as not too loud.. the wife cannot hear me shooting in the house. Plenty cheap and accurate. If you have a slight height advantage then I don't think you will have any issues shooting 100m rabbits with a 22lr.


You don't need import permits for scopes. You might need export permits, I'm not sure if the US considers scopes to be firearm parts. Many scopes are caught by ITAR making them very difficult to export.

Yep, I agree with you. There are some very limited situations where the short ballistic range and lack of energy can make an air-rifle a good choice, noise is not one of the air-rifles major advantages though.

Bulk pellets are certainly cheaper than .22LR ammo, but the exotic pellets that are likely required for those 80m shots are crazy expensive.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by bladeracer » 29 Jul 2019, 5:47 am

ramshackle wrote:Before I decide to buy a rimfire though, I'm going to have to accept that I will be shooting at 40m max (because I have to use slow, "Quiet" ammo here). And be super-aware of my backstop.


I think you are selling .22LR well short here, 700fps .22LR ammo is quite capable of taking small game out to 100m, as long as you are getting the required accuracy. Accuracy will limit your range, not the energy of the bullet, or the trajectory - if you have the accuracy to make a precision hit the bullet will do a lot more damage than a pellet. Anybody that confines themselves to 40m max because of the trajectory curve needs to learn to shoot.

CCI Quiet 40gn 710fps trajectory - I'll assume a 30m zero as being a decent start for close-range shooting:
First zero is at 11.5m
It peaks 10mm high at 20m
It zeros at 30m
At 40m it's 19mm low with 42ft-lbs and 690fps - a 10mph wind deflects it 19mm
At 50m it's 88mm low
At 60m it's 165mm low
At 70m it's 265mm low
At 80m it's 390mm low
At 90m it's 540mm low
At 100m it's 710mm low with 38ft-lbs and 650fps

A .177" 7.9gn pellet at 1000fps is virtually identical:
First zero is at 17m
It peaks 3mm high at 23m
It zeros at 30m
At 40m it's 19mm low with 10ft-lbs and 740fps - a 10mph wind deflects it 120mm
At 50m it's 58mm low
At 60m it's 119mm low
At 70m it's 205mm low
At 80m it's 320mm low
At 90m it's 465mm low
At 100m it's 650mm low with 5ft-lbs and 500fps

A .22" 21gn pellet at 800fps:
First zero is at 12.5m
It peaks 10mm high at 21m
It zeros at 30m
At 40m it's 28mm low with 21ft-lbs and 680fps - a 10mph wind deflects it 70mm
At 50m it's 80mm low
At 60m it's 155mm low
At 70m it's 258mm low
At 80m it's 390mm low
At 90m it's 560mm low
At 100m it's 760mm low with 5ft-lbs and 500fps

In trajectory, there really is nothing between the three.
I extended the chart range to 1500m, and made it shoot into the air at 35-degrees, and, just to see what the three are absolutely capable of, I assume you're shooting from the top of a hill:
The CCI Quiet 40gn at 710fps will go around 1335m...if you're shooting into the sky on top of a 1200ft hill - on level ground, shooting into the sky, it'll reach about 1110m max.
The .177" 7.9gn pellet at 1000fps will go around 375m...if you're on a 220ft hill, on level ground about 330m max.
The .22" 21gn pellet at 800fps will go 515m...if you're on top of a 200ft hill. On flat ground, it'll hit the ground about 440m away.

Shooting rabbits across level ground dictates that the bullet/pellet is going to hit the ground behind the target if you miss, or penetrate through a rabbit/fox. As you're likely to be shooting at targets less than one-metre above the ground, even at 100m the bullet/pellet is going to hit the ground around the 120-150m mark on a miss, very much closer on a pass-through. The bullet/pellet is then going to ricochet off the ground, deformed, tumbling, and lacking velocity. In the three examples above, I doubt they're going to injure or damage anything further than about 300m away even if you miss your target completely. With CCI Std Vel 40gn at 1080fps I shoot a lot of steel silhouettes, which means lots of misses while I work out the wind. They are positioned on top of the dam wall at 180m. My misses pass over the dam and fall in a neat area about 350m away from me. They are hitting the ground well before that, and probably bouncing several times before stopping there. Shooting at 180m I'm aiming up about 0.6-degrees, or a metre high at 100m, plus about two-metres of dam wall.

My own testing has the CCI Quiet penetrating a corrugated steel shed out to around 165m, although it was cracking the steel out to 180m. At that range it is making around 34ft-lbs and 620fps.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by meawls » 29 Jul 2019, 7:47 am

On the subject of low noise around smallish acreages, I did a stack of research on the topic, and ended up settling on the long barrelled CZ 452 Lux. I think barrel length is 28, or maybe 28.5”. Apparently that last few inches of barrel really absorbs the sound signature - It is very noticeably quieter using standards compared side by side with a standard barrel length ... which for all intents and purposes make identical ammo seem like HV when compared shot for shot with the Lux. You can happily shoot all day with these without muffs, although the bloke that shot em inside his house without the missus hearing must have a hell of a big house!!

A word of warning though... whilst I just lurve CCI quiets, probably one in three in the Lux result in the slug staying in the barrel ... last inch and a half or so. I restrict these to use to the other rimfires in the safe, and for ultra low noise in an old 25” single shot, which is stupid quiet with the round, and quieter that the Diana Panther springer chucking the .177’s out at around 1000 FPS. I think one of the channels I researched mentioned this may be a problem in the ultra long barrels. Short story is to make damned sure you can account for your projectile before shooting another ... or there may be consequences.

In regards to scopes for PCPs ... I was under the impression that due to non existent recoil, “normal” quality scopes could be used on them ... is this incorrect??
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by bladeracer » 29 Jul 2019, 8:36 am

meawls wrote:On the subject of low noise around smallish acreages, I did a stack of research on the topic, and ended up settling on the long barrelled CZ 452 Lux. I think barrel length is 28, or maybe 28.5”. Apparently that last few inches of barrel really absorbs the sound signature - It is very noticeably quieter using standards compared side by side with a standard barrel length ... which for all intents and purposes make identical ammo seem like HV when compared shot for shot with the Lux. You can happily shoot all day with these without muffs, although the bloke that shot em inside his house without the missus hearing must have a hell of a big house!!


Interesting. I wonder if the noise signature is only reduced for the shooter though (being a few inches further away), maybe it's the same as any other .22LR for people hearing it from other than the shooter's position?
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by meawls » 29 Jul 2019, 9:50 am

Having son and wife check from the side and from the rear, the reduction is validated Blade. I’m then able to verify it for myself having a mate doing the shooting. I wish I could justify the $5 or 600 that an instrument grade decibel meter sets one back - it’d be terrific to confirm the subjective!!

Absolutely beautiful and useful stats on your previous post btw ...
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by ramshackle » 29 Jul 2019, 10:00 am

@bladeracer, strewth that was a very interesting post there! Thanks very much for taking the time to collate all that useful info. :clap:

bladeracer wrote:Accuracy will limit your range, not the energy of the bullet, or the trajectory


That's what I meant to say. I've seen CCI Quiet tested on several YT videos, and the grouping gets bad after say 50m.

This is an interesting video in this regard:
https://youtu.be/8e6Wl4NqWpQ (shows CCI Quiet not good at distance, only good to 30m)
https://youtu.be/uZnhuFqfZxQ (discusses quiet options)

Shooting rabbits across level ground dictates that the bullet/pellet is going to hit the ground behind the target if you miss, or penetrate through a rabbit/fox


This is logical of course, and thanks for reminding me of it. It removes some of my concerns about backstop.

My own testing has the CCI Quiet penetrating a corrugated steel shed out to around 165m, although it was cracking the steel out to 180m. At that range it is making around 34ft-lbs and 620fps.


It certainly has the BC, just the accuracy that concerns me. I'm hoping that a good scope and dope sheet will overcome what "meathead marksman" says in those videos! :huh:
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by ramshackle » 29 Jul 2019, 10:07 am

meawls wrote:On the subject of low noise around smallish acreages, I did a stack of research on the topic, and ended up settling on the long barrelled CZ 452 Lux. I think barrel length is 28, or maybe 28.5”.


452 Lux is equipped with a 24.8" (630 mm)
452 Ultra Lux is equipped with a 28.6" (727 mm)
(from wikipedia)

On the CCI Quiet box it tells you not to use it in barrels longer than 24"

A word of warning though... whilst I just lurve CCI quiets, probably one in three in the Lux result in the slug staying in the barrel ... last inch and a half or so.


Deary me! :shock: Have you tried cleaning the barrel? Or lubing the rounds? CZ's have very tight bores, I've heard, so taking out all fouling may help.

In regards to scopes for PCPs ... I was under the impression that due to non existent recoil, “normal” quality scopes could be used on them ... is this incorrect??


No that's correct from my research.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by meawls » 29 Jul 2019, 10:27 am

Yeah Ramshackle, it’s the ultra Lux we have here. Done the obvious stuff such as scrubbing the bore to diamond sparkly... no difference. Your suspicions re the tight bore may well be correct. No probs whatsoever with the 25” barrel in the single shot ... and I don’t think it’s been scrubbed ... literally for a century!!

The other matter that I can’t see having been mentioned here is that of the “Zimmer” ammo types and their derivatives. For some odd reason the ultra Lux loves the Remington C Bees ... printing them into a measured 0.418” at 35M. These too have cavernous hollow points that are meant to be just spiffy for close and personal hunting ... and no hang ups of the slugs. Probably something to do with bearing surfaces of the lighter projectile etc.

Shoot to a very different zero to the mainstream stuff - obviously ... and this is probably why I’ve never bothered all that much with field testing them on game when noise isn’t as big an issue to us as it it you.

Wonder if Bladeracer has any stats in these types of gear ... may just work for you ... although not always the easiest things to source.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by bladeracer » 29 Jul 2019, 11:53 am

ramshackle wrote:
bladeracer wrote:Accuracy will limit your range, not the energy of the bullet, or the trajectory


That's what I meant to say. I've seen CCI Quiet tested on several YT videos, and the grouping gets bad after say 50m.

This is an interesting video in this regard:
https://youtu.be/8e6Wl4NqWpQ (shows CCI Quiet not good at distance, only good to 30m)
https://youtu.be/uZnhuFqfZxQ (discusses quiet options)


There are a few different offerings of low-velocity subsonics, although nowhere near as many choices as "standard"subsonic and high-velocity ammo. As long as you can find one that shoots well in your rifle you're golden, but that's not always possible. I know people who swear by the Winchester Long-Z or the RWS Z-Lang, but both are terrible in anything I've tried them in. The Highland ZX doesn't shoot too badly, but I think the CCI Quiet has been the best for me in that realm - I've been keeping my Ruger American Compact zeroed at 40m with CCI Quiet lately just for around the house. CCI Suppressor and Federal American Eagle Suppressor are 45gn bullets that might be worth trying also. But the CCI Std Velocity is very accurate, even at way-longer-than-hunting ranges and is more than quiet enough for me, and I like quiet shooting :-) I have shot it during sessions with the air-rifle and I can't discern any difference in their reports.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by ramshackle » 29 Jul 2019, 12:15 pm

Good stuff, bladeracer. I'll come back to your post when I have the gun and try out all those options. I'm casting my eye over a Browning T-Bolt 22LR in 22" barrel format at the moment. Stainless, may fit the bill for me.

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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by bladeracer » 29 Jul 2019, 12:35 pm

ramshackle wrote:This is an interesting video in this regard:
https://youtu.be/8e6Wl4NqWpQ (shows CCI Quiet not good at distance, only good to 30m)
https://youtu.be/uZnhuFqfZxQ (discusses quiet options)



I just watched these videos.
He had a shot with the .22LR at 415fps, then ran a pull-through and got 501fps. Then the velocities settled from 648fps to 711fps. He dropped the 415fps shot as an anomaly but kept the 501fps so it would drastically skew the result. He gives it an ES of 201fps by including the anomaly, when the following nine consecutive shots have an ES of 63fps, then complains the ammo is poor quality.

Interesting that the FX power settings had no effect on the noise output, despite a difference of 300fps.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by ramshackle » 29 Jul 2019, 1:35 pm

Yep, he is a bit weird the way he has done that.

Just a quick question about cheap scopes: I'm thinking of buying, in addition to the quality 22LR, a cheap PCP like a Diana Stormrider and slapping a cheap scope on it.

I want the most basic scope, can be fixed magnification, say 6X or 8X or 10X. Cheapest possible, will see only occasional use. eBay Chinese stuff is fine ... if it works. Suggestions?
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by brett1868 » 29 Jul 2019, 2:12 pm

Check out Hermann's as he deals with the FX brand quite a bit.

https://hermannsguns.com.au/fx-airguns-1/?sort=pricedesc
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by bladeracer » 29 Jul 2019, 3:28 pm

ramshackle wrote:Yep, he is a bit weird the way he has done that.

Just a quick question about cheap scopes: I'm thinking of buying, in addition to the quality 22LR, a cheap PCP like a Diana Stormrider and slapping a cheap scope on it.

I want the most basic scope, can be fixed magnification, say 6X or 8X or 10X. Cheapest possible, will see only occasional use. eBay Chinese stuff is fine ... if it works. Suggestions?


I'm currently running a $30 3-9x40 on my Crosman, seems okay so far. I plan to swap it onto the Umarex 10/22 when I get it - it's sitting at my dealer now waiting on the PtA to come through.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by ramshackle » 29 Jul 2019, 4:20 pm

@bladeracer, thanks! Any details on where you got it? That sounds like what I'm looking for.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by bladeracer » 29 Jul 2019, 5:31 pm

ramshackle wrote:@bladeracer, thanks! Any details on where you got it? That sounds like what I'm looking for.


I'm down at the house and probably won't be up my office again until tomorrow, but I'll post the link to it then.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by ramshackle » 29 Jul 2019, 6:02 pm

Perfect :thumbsup:
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by bladeracer » 30 Jul 2019, 11:52 am

bladeracer wrote:
ramshackle wrote:@bladeracer, thanks! Any details on where you got it? That sounds like what I'm looking for.


I'm down at the house and probably won't be up my office again until tomorrow, but I'll post the link to it then.


This is the scope I'm currently running on the Crosman.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1X-3-9x40-Air-Rifle-Gun-Optics-Sight-Hunting-Scope-Sight-Black-P3F1/292787968634?hash=item442b85da7a:g:X2sAAOSwvhxb0jpA&frcectupt=true
Cost me $30.61 delivered.
It has capped turrets which I normally hate, but I don't expect to have to alter these once it's zeroed.
I haven't tried to work out what the reticle graduations are as I hadn't planned on using it past about 30m, and the .177 shoots pretty much dead flat to that distance so holdover marks really aren't required. If I remember to take it up with me sometime I'll put it onto an A4 sheet at 100m to measure the graduations.
For a rough guestimate, that post is at 18m, and the cuphead bolts are 22mm diameter. Scaling the photo would indicate the hash marks are at 100mm at 100m, so mils rather than minutes. You can see in the photo how far I had to wind out the ocular to get it focused, which was a worry.

Just got the call that my PtA finally came through, so into town to pick up the 10/22 air-rifle now :-)
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by ramshackle » 30 Jul 2019, 1:26 pm

Fabulous! Thanks very much, bladeracer :)
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by Sawyers » 30 Jul 2019, 2:37 pm

ramshackle wrote:Good stuff, bladeracer. I'll come back to your post when I have the gun and try out all those options. I'm casting my eye over a Browning T-Bolt 22LR in 22" barrel format at the moment. Stainless, may fit the bill for me.

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My Mrs has 1 and loves it our son also likes shooting it, but while its a nice gun I find it to lite and somewhat like a toy. In saying this its a good shooter and the 2x 10 rnd mags come in handy.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by ramshackle » 02 Aug 2019, 10:28 am

I wrote to Weapons Branch on QLD to amend my PTA to reflect the new gun. I hope an email will suffice, but maybe I should call instead?
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by bladeracer » 04 Aug 2019, 1:16 pm

bladeracer wrote:This is the scope I'm currently running on the Crosman.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1X-3-9x40-Air-Rifle-Gun-Optics-Sight-Hunting-Scope-Sight-Black-P3F1/292787968634?hash=item442b85da7a:g:X2sAAOSwvhxb0jpA&frcectupt=true
Cost me $30.61 delivered.
It has capped turrets which I normally hate, but I don't expect to have to alter these once it's zeroed.
I haven't tried to work out what the reticle graduations are as I hadn't planned on using it past about 30m, and the .177 shoots pretty much dead flat to that distance so holdover marks really aren't required. If I remember to take it up with me sometime I'll put it onto an A4 sheet at 100m to measure the graduations.
For a rough guestimate, that post is at 18m, and the cuphead bolts are 22mm diameter. Scaling the photo would indicate the hash marks are at 100mm at 100m, so mils rather than minutes. You can see in the photo how far I had to wind out the ocular to get it focused, which was a worry.

Just got the call that my PtA finally came through, so into town to pick up the 10/22 air-rifle now :-)


I had a play with this scope again as I was going to swap it onto the Ruger air-rifle. It was in dovetail rings on the Crosman so I decided to toss an old 6-24x50 Chinese Bushnell on it instead, so I could shoot both air-rifles together.

I've been using the Crosman to plink tenth-scale silhouettes (in their general direction at least, they're tiny targets!). After 160-odd shots with the Ruger of the bench at 12.5m, I switched to the Crosman for a play. I was shooting reasonably well initially, but noticed the groups starting to throw some really wide fliers, so wide I was assuming I'd inadvertently aimed at the wrong dot on the page. I wound the scope up from three-power to nine-power and then noticed how much parallax error I was seeing. The target dots are 14mm, and moving my head around, I was seeing the reticle moving around an area of about 30mm...at 12.5m, something like 8 minutes of parallax error - possibly the most I've ever seen. I wound it back down to three-power, and wound the focus ring back in until focus was acceptable rather than good. I don't know if the focus has any effect, but to focus the targets I'd had the ocular wound out about 10mm. The groups still seemed to be vertically elongated though, so I swapped on the Bushnell from the Ruger. I think the $60 Bushnell is a significantly better scope than this $30 one, at least for close-range air-rifle shooting. I'll have to take it out one day on a .22LR and see how it performs at longer ranges.

I think the $8 ebay 4x20 is better than this 3-9x40 for close-range.
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Re: Australian Air Rifle Dealers — recommendations

Post by Member-Deleted » 14 Aug 2019, 2:58 pm

bladeracer wrote:
ramshackle wrote:I'm aiming to buy an air rifle / airgun soon. I'm struck by the fact that there are few dedicated air rifle dealers in Australia, and prices are incredibly high compared to the US.

Most Australian firearm dealers have air rifles tacked on as an afterthought to their main range of powder burners, and the airguns they do offer are mostly break-barrel springers, not PCPs.

If you have an air rifle or if you are considering buying one, what is your opinion of the online offerings in Australia, the prices, the after sales service, etc?


Regarding prices, don't be thinking we're that badly off compared to the US. We earn double their minimum wage, we have free (from our taxes) healthcare, are not required to pay for health insurance, free (from our taxes) third-party motor vehicle accident insurance, and we're not required by law to have car insurance. Even if you're paying double what the US pays, you're still way in front.


I shoot solely the FX range of PCP's which are available from the importer direct being Herman's Sporting goods in Victoria, the performance service and warranty is next to non, but the FX is an expensive range (I believe it is on the top of the list) unfortunately that is about it there are a few gun shops around that carry various units but non actually put any great effort into them, they use it as a complimentary range to support their main stock, powder burners as you mentioned. Shops specialising in Air Rifle is one that is missing from an otherwise reasonable range of products.
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