Best club to join

[huntingfishingand4x4]

I’m a junior a/b best club I should join ? VIC

[sungazer]

What type of shooting do you want to do? Where do you live? How far and how often will a parent drive you how far?

[bladeracer]

I’m a junior a/b best club I should join ? VIC

What area and what competitions are you interested in?

[huntingfishingand4x4]

I’m from the northern suburbs of Melbourne and 17 just wanna join a club for more benefits and to have a genuine reason on my lisence when 18

[bladeracer]

I’m from the northern suburbs of Melbourne and 17 just wanna join a club for more benefits and to have a genuine reason on my lisence when 18

I'd suggest visiting Little River SSAA then for a look.
In Victoria you don't need to join any clubs for genuine reason.
Go to GMA and request an Expression of Interest in Hunting Pest Animals on Crown Land, send a copy of that with your application. But I would suggest putting Hunting and Target on your licence.
http://www.gma.vic.gov.au/hunting/pest-animals

Some clubs include Public Liability Insurance with your membership so are worth having without using them for genuine reason - SSAA and Field & Game for example.

[MontyShooter]

Yeh check out little River.
500m.
50bmg approved.
Load your mags up.
Shoot anything. Shotties, canons, etc.

[Sturmmann]

Outside of Eagle Park Range, are there any other ranges where you can shoot higher than a .22 in Victoria? Seems like everywhere I have found only allows .22.

[bladeracer]

Outside of Eagle Park Range, are there any other ranges where you can shoot higher than a .22 in Victoria? Seems like everywhere I have found only allows .22.

What do you mean by "shoot" higher than a .22? I think there are plenty of clubs that do centrefire competition, although most seem to be relegated to being open only one or two days per month. Are you wanting to join a club to shoot regularly or just want somewhere you can shoot informally now and then?

[Sarco]

Outside of Eagle Park Range, are there any other ranges where you can shoot higher than a .22 in Victoria? Seems like everywhere I have found only allows .22.

Cite troll here, First post,

"where can I shoot any where else"

If you don't know, you probably have not done a firearms safety course.

[dhv]

I’m from the northern suburbs of Melbourne and 17 just wanna join a club for more benefits and to have a genuine reason on my lisence when 18

OK, straight up attitude adjustment required. You sound like a complete user. It's all about you.

Clubs are mostly run by volunteers and wont survive unless members bring a contributory attitude with them from day 1. Start thinking about what you can do to help as well as what you want your membership to do for you.

Next, are you a hunter or a shooter? If you want to hunt (as your name suggests) join a hunting club. If you just want to shoot targets, join a range based club. Better yet, join both and add to their numbers.

[bladeracer]

OK, straight up attitude adjustment required. You sound like a complete user. It's all about you.

Clubs are mostly run by volunteers and wont survive unless members bring a contributory attitude with them from day 1. Start thinking about what you can do to help as well as what you want your membership to do for you.

Not everybody joins a club because they want to help run a club, some people prefer to live their lives and merely attend clubs for the club activities, and there is _nothing_ wrong with that.

Clubs should certainly be able to cater to taking money from the blow-ins to add to the club's coffers without looking down on them. People are happy to pay whatever fees are set by a club in order to use their facilities, without immediately joining the committee or showing up for all the working bees. If a club does not want people to enjoy their facilities without signing up for the long-haul, put up signs stressing your club attitude so shooters looking for somewhere they can shoot don't waste their time on you.

[dhv]

OK, straight up attitude adjustment required. You sound like a complete user. It's all about you.

Clubs are mostly run by volunteers and wont survive unless members bring a contributory attitude with them from day 1. Start thinking about what you can do to help as well as what you want your membership to do for you.

Not everybody joins a club because they want to help run a club, some people prefer to live their lives and merely attend clubs for the club activities, and there is _nothing_ wrong with that.

Clubs should certainly be able to cater to taking money from the blow-ins to add to the club's coffers without looking down on them. People are happy to pay whatever fees are set by a club in order to use their facilities, without immediately joining the committee or showing up for all the working bees. If a club does not want people to enjoy their facilities without signing up for the long-haul, put up signs stressing your club attitude so shooters looking for somewhere they can shoot don't waste their time on you.

In that case you are a customer, not a member. Pay your money and wait your turn until someone working for money delivers what you paid for.
Just don't join a volunteer association as a member, contribute nothing and then expect to be treated like a customer.

[bladeracer]

In that case you are a customer, not a member. Pay your money and wait your turn until someone working for money delivers what you paid for.
Just don't join a volunteer association as a member, contribute nothing and then expect to be treated like a customer.

That's correct, customers, who bring money into the club. Customers don't contribute anything except their money, that's what customer means. They don't take anything from the club other than what you give them in exchange for their money. If your club does not want customers, make it clear and you won't have people wanting to bother you. Frankly I can't see any downside. You're there anyway, with your club members, shooting. Where's the loss to the club by having some customers paying money to shoot with you?

[dhv]

In that case you are a customer, not a member. Pay your money and wait your turn until someone working for money delivers what you paid for.
Just don't join a volunteer association as a member, contribute nothing and then expect to be treated like a customer.

That's correct, customers, who bring money into the club. Customers don't contribute anything except their money, that's what customer means. They don't take anything from the club other than what you give them in exchange for their money. If your club does not want customers, make it clear and you won't have people wanting to bother you. Frankly I can't see any downside. You're there anyway, with your club members, shooting. Where's the loss to the club by having some customers paying money to shoot with you?

Again you assume a range based scenario but anyway;
A bunch of 50 members all sharing the work load means fees can be kept low.
Add an additional 50 "customers" into the mix and you start looking to have to pay people to do the extra work that customers demand. Things like range maintenance and don't forget all the BS paperwork that firearm registries demand from clubs.
There is a limit to what volunteers will do and why should they work for free when only a small number of members are helping out (sound familiar?).
So instead of 50 members enjoying themselves for $100 a year we now have an additional 50 customers paying $100 year which isn't enough to cover the cost of the range plus the cost of staff, so everyone now pays $150 per year.
Look at it another way. If we placed a $$ value on those volunteer contributions, charged everyone $500 per year but refunded $10 per hour worked, that would be fair.

[bladeracer]

Again you assume a range based scenario but anyway;
A bunch of 50 members all sharing the work load means fees can be kept low.
Add an additional 50 "customers" into the mix and you start looking to have to pay people to do the extra work that customers demand. Things like range maintenance and don't forget all the BS paperwork that firearm registries demand from clubs.
There is a limit to what volunteers will do and why should they work for free when only a small number of members are helping out (sound familiar?).
So instead of 50 members enjoying themselves for $100 a year we now have an additional 50 customers paying $100 year which isn't enough to cover the cost of the range plus the cost of staff, so everyone now pays $150 per year.
Look at it another way. If we placed a $$ value on those volunteer contributions, charged everyone $500 per year but refunded $10 per hour worked, that would be fair.

Is there a non-range-based scenario possible for somebody looking for a club he can shoot at?
I understand how a club works, and your scenario is fine if you only want members that run the club, and have zero room for anybody else to make use of your facilities. Most of us would call that an "old boys" club, that has such a negative view of any shooter that is not already a member that they probably don't even publish their events, and make it virtually impossible for anybody to contact anybody about becoming a member anyway.

As for fees, it's up to the club to determine the fee structure required to be fair to both parties. You can't charge low fees and then whine about it being too low.
If club membership is $100 a year (which seems ridiculously low to me), and you have fifty members contributing $5000 to the club to cover the expenses incurred for them to use the club facilities for the year. If you charge blow-ins $50 a day to come along and shoot then I can't see a downside. If you get lots of customers wanting to use the facilities, there would seem to be plenty of money there to reimburse some volunteers for their effort in managing those shooters for the day if that's required - I can't see why it should be though except for absolutely new or unlicenced shooters. The volunteers that work with non-members are clearly contributing enormously to the club by bringing in those additional funds.

I could see a problem if the club had absolutely zero interest (as you seem to) in simply providing somewhere for fellow shooters to do some shooting.

[dhv]

Again you assume a range based scenario but anyway;
A bunch of 50 members all sharing the work load means fees can be kept low.
Add an additional 50 "customers" into the mix and you start looking to have to pay people to do the extra work that customers demand. Things like range maintenance and don't forget all the BS paperwork that firearm registries demand from clubs.
There is a limit to what volunteers will do and why should they work for free when only a small number of members are helping out (sound familiar?).
So instead of 50 members enjoying themselves for $100 a year we now have an additional 50 customers paying $100 year which isn't enough to cover the cost of the range plus the cost of staff, so everyone now pays $150 per year.
Look at it another way. If we placed a $$ value on those volunteer contributions, charged everyone $500 per year but refunded $10 per hour worked, that would be fair.

Is there a non-range-based scenario possible for somebody looking for a club he can shoot at?
I understand how a club works, and your scenario is fine if you only want members that run the club, and have zero room for anybody else to make use of your facilities. Most of us would call that an "old boys" club, that has such a negative view of any shooter that is not already a member that they probably don't even publish their events, and make it virtually impossible for anybody to contact anybody about becoming a member anyway.

As for fees, it's up to the club to determine the fee structure required to be fair to both parties. You can't charge low fees and then whine about it being too low.
If club membership is $100 a year (which seems ridiculously low to me), and you have fifty members contributing $5000 to the club to cover the expenses incurred for them to use the club facilities for the year. If you charge blow-ins $50 a day to come along and shoot then I can't see a downside. If you get lots of customers wanting to use the facilities, there would seem to be plenty of money there to reimburse some volunteers for their effort in managing those shooters for the day if that's required - I can't see why it should be though except for absolutely new or unlicenced shooters. The volunteers that work with non-members are clearly contributing enormously to the club by bringing in those additional funds.

I could see a problem if the club had absolutely zero interest (as you seem to) in simply providing somewhere for fellow shooters to do some shooting.

I was talking hypothetically, and yes I agree that if the going rate is too low then the club needs to look at that, but I know of more than one club where all the work is done by retired blokes who are also on the committee, and putting up the membership fees means that some of them can no longer afford to belong.

There is a reason there are very few purely commercial shooting facilities; people will not pay the true cost of running them. If volunteer clubs don't get the help they need they will not go commercial, they will simply close. You choose.

The point of my post was to make sure that the OP considered helping out if that is possible, as any help is appreciated.

[bladeracer]

I was talking hypothetically, and yes I agree that if the going rate is too low then the club needs to look at that, but I know of more than one club where all the work is done by retired blokes who are also on the committee, and putting up the membership fees means that some of them can no longer afford to belong.

There is a reason there are very few purely commercial shooting facilities; people will not pay the true cost of running them. If volunteer clubs don't get the help they need they will not go commercial, they will simply close. You choose.

The point of my post was to make sure that the OP considered helping out if that is possible, as any help is appreciated.

I would've thought the committee members were exempted from membership fees? If they're paying the same fees as non-committee members then it makes sense they'd feel put-upon running the club for others. If you have fifty members, and ten are on the committee or otherwise running the club, their fees should be spread over the fees paid by those members that are not involved in running the club, I can't imagine any successful club not operating this way. If the club needs $100 per member to cover the costs, then the 40 members not on the committee should be paying $125 each to support the committee members.

Yes, I agree, club members that do wish to be involved in the operating of the club are worth their weight in gold. But that is very different from simply slating anybody that is merely wanting to join a club, and pay the fees, so he has a place he can shoot.

[dhv]

I was talking hypothetically, and yes I agree that if the going rate is too low then the club needs to look at that, but I know of more than one club where all the work is done by retired blokes who are also on the committee, and putting up the membership fees means that some of them can no longer afford to belong.

There is a reason there are very few purely commercial shooting facilities; people will not pay the true cost of running them. If volunteer clubs don't get the help they need they will not go commercial, they will simply close. You choose.

The point of my post was to make sure that the OP considered helping out if that is possible, as any help is appreciated.

I would've thought the committee members were exempted from membership fees? If they're paying the same fees as non-committee members then it makes sense they'd feel put-upon running the club for others. If you have fifty members, and ten are on the committee or otherwise running the club, their fees should be spread over the fees paid by those members that are not involved in running the club, I can't imagine any successful club not operating this way. If the club needs $100 per member to cover the costs, then the 40 members not on the committee should be paying $125 each to support the committee members.

Yes, I agree, club members that do wish to be involved in the operating of the club are worth their weight in gold. But that is very different from simply slating anybody that is merely wanting to join a club, and pay the fees, so he has a place he can shoot.

I'm not aware of any club where the exec do not pay membership fees. I still pay mine.

[bladeracer]

I'm not aware of any club where the exec do not pay membership fees. I still pay mine.

Then I think you need to raise the idea at a meeting. Surely you don't believe your club members would be against supporting those that run the club for them?

[marksman]

funny thing is that at little river range (a non for profit org) they dont rely on volunteers, the staff and RO's for the public range are paid very well
the hierarchy are paid an enormous amount but the fools on the front line are intimidated into free work for the good of the club until they are no longer useful
when you look at the sub clubs at little river there are the usual 3% who put in and the rest are as you say dhv "customers"
not everyone wants to be a member in the sence that they are obligated to work for nothing, these people are there for there hobby
I have personally seen many good people who have put in so much at a club then to be burnt and treated like they were a hindrance when not needed
not everyone who joins a club is interested in even shooting at the club, ssaa have probably less than 5% of members who actually shoot at there ranges
eg... at little river it was a big day to have a few hundred shooters through but out of many hundreds of thousands of members (customers)
it's the public that puts the money in the till as well as the membership money, that does not include donations and government funding

I get what you are saying dhv but we are living in the real world and if you put these expectations on new people a hell of a lot will turn around and not look back

anyway clubs suck, I won't even be a customer

[dhv]

It's usually a constitutional thing. Lots of rules covering not for profits,.

You become a member by paying the nominated membership fee. If you don't pay you aren't a member, and if you aren't a member then you cant be on the committee nor does any insurances the club holds cover you should you hurt yourself whilst working for the club.

The only way to do it would be to pay a wage, and that raises a whole bunch of other complexity.

[mickb]

I’m from the northern suburbs of Melbourne and 17 just wanna join a club for more benefits and to have a genuine reason on my lisence when 18

OK, straight up attitude adjustment required. You sound like a complete user. It's all about you.

Clubs are mostly run by volunteers and wont survive unless members bring a contributory attitude with them from day 1. Start thinking about what you can do to help as well as what you want your membership to do for you.

Next, are you a hunter or a shooter? If you want to hunt (as your name suggests) join a hunting club. If you just want to shoot targets, join a range based club. Better yet, join both and add to their numbers.

Not sure why there is any attitude adjustment needed for some guy needing a club to do something. I mostly use clubs for my own purposes, gym, boxing, archery, rifle ranges etc. I pay the fee required, support the club with my patronage, choose my level of involvement(which is my choice alone). I think an attitude adjustment would be not jumping on new shooters looking to enter the sport...

[SCJ429]

I agree, it is difficult to get young blokes interested in the sport, the average age appears to be close to 60 for most clubs. If we could get this bloke into shooting for life you have forty years to get him to contribute. What teen do you know who wants to join a club looking for what he can do for the club?

If your business model gets as many people to visit the range as many time as possible, buy some ammo and targets. The more successful at doing this you are the cheaper you can make the experience. If you could increase the number of casual users by 10% year on year you could subsidise the memberships paid by members who contribute to the running of the club.

How do successful US clubs run their facilities?

[bladeracer]

It's usually a constitutional thing. Lots of rules covering not for profits,.

You become a member by paying the nominated membership fee. If you don't pay you aren't a member, and if you aren't a member then you cant be on the committee nor does any insurances the club holds cover you should you hurt yourself whilst working for the club.

The only way to do it would be to pay a wage, and that raises a whole bunch of other complexity.

The committee members are financial, it's just that their fees are paid by the rest of the members, I don't see a difficulty with that. All volunteers get something out of volunteering, just not money.

[Sturmmann]

Outside of Eagle Park Range, are there any other ranges where you can shoot higher than a .22 in Victoria? Seems like everywhere I have found only allows .22.

Cite troll here, First post,

"where can I shoot any where else"

If you don't know, you probably have not done a firearms safety course.

Not a troll, just wanted to find a range where I can get comfortable sooting something higher than a 22, I picking up a 223 in a few weeks and would like to be comfortable shooting a calibre higher than a 22.

Thanks for your help anyway. I see this community if full of people willing to help out newbies.

[Sergeant Hartman]

Mate generally ssaa reaches around ballarat/Bendigo. The vra range are cost but they are limited to only open one or two Saturdays a month. Look at vra website. You will need to be a member of vra club to use their range.

In short apart from little river there is no range that will allow you to shoot greater than 22lr.

[Sturmmann]

Cheers, I think I'll just stick to little river.

[sungazer]

The comment I have seen about VRA Ranges only open one or two days a month while may be correct is also not the entire truth.

All VRA clubs are allocated to a District just like your Rural Football clubs. Like the football clubs there are competitions organized within the DRA a Home and Away match system if you like/ This can be the reason for a range being closed. On Top of the local competitions there are also competitions put on by the individual clubs themselves. These will not be on a weekend that is designated and interclub shoot. The VRA give the clubs guidance as to what weekends traditionally competitions have been held and the what weekends will be reserved for the planning of interclub matches and if none of that is happening then more than likely there will be a At home practice shoot or a At home competition.

In fact some clubs shoot twice a week both on the traditional Saturday and a weekday such as the Armed forces Wednesdays sporties or the Medical and Law profession Wednesday Gold days.

[Member-Deleted]

Great post, brings to light the poor simplistic out dated attitude of day's gone by clubs, don't waste your time on these clubs unless of course your happy to join and proceed direct to the working bee "do not pass GO" Join the SSAA pay your range fees and do your thing. Lighten up on the young fella guys, he is 17 with probably little exposure to the shooting game.