Advice for Muzzle Loader newbie

[Supaduke]

I'm am looking to get myself a muzzle loader and try some black powder.
I have several rimfire and centrefire rifles already but no muzzle loader.
I was hoping those with experience could list a few things such as:
- reputable reproduction rifles
- manafacturers to steer clear of
- essential equipment
- equipment that turned out to be useless
- best calibre for accuracy
- best calibre for ease of sourcing components, I would like to be able to purchase pre-made projectiles
- tips, do's, don'ts
- any information you feel is pertinent to a newbie looking to try black powder
Thanks in advance for any advice you have to offer.

[Oldbloke]

If you buy one that shoots "minies" you can shoot deer with it.
If you get a "ball" only one you are more limited. Cant remember but its determined by the rifling twist. Balls are less accurate too.

[bigpete]

Hmmmm,I disagree with oldbloke....mine shoots balls a whole lot better than minies on the whole....

As was mention,twist rate comes into play. In 50 cal, 1:28 is considered a minie ball twist,1:66 is round ball,and 1:48 is a bastard twist that's meant to work equally well for both minie and round ball.

Also,it's not illegal to hunt deer with round ball to the best of my knowledge....I thought it just said the projectile must weigh 230gn or over....which means 54 cal or over for round balls.

Cva,Thompson,and pedersoli are all pretty good. I have a Dikar which is essentially a cva, and a pedersoli,and the pedersoli is indeed a far nicer rifle....but I prefer the Dikar.

Start off with a caplock....flintlocks are indeed fun,but I gotta admit,mine has taught me to flinch badly when I squeeze the trigger....so I don't use it.

[No1Mk3]

It doesn't help when bums like me overfill the flashpan for new flinty shooters!

[bigpete]

It doesn't help when bums like me overfill the flashpan for new flinty shooters!

Lol,bastard!
I've bloody tried all sorts with my flinter....nothing works,the flinch just gets worse...lol

[Oldbloke]

Each state is different but this is Vic.

Min Deer Cartridges.JPG (78.3 KiB) Viewed 8155 times

[Supaduke]

I won't be hunting with it, but useful knowledge there.

[Oldbloke]

"Also,it's not illegal to hunt deer with round ball to the best of my knowledge....I thought it just said the projectile must weigh 230gn or over....which means 54 cal or over for round balls."

Correct. Minies are heavier, being "bullet" shaped.

[bigpete]

Exactly....so choice of a rifles ability to hunt deer with is not so much reflected in its ability to shoot minies well as it is reflected in its ability to shoot a projectile of adequate weight....

[bigpete]

If you're not planning on hunting, I'd suggest finding a 45. You use less powder and lead that way...and it'll still kill virtually anything up to a point if you so choose to.

[No1Mk3]

Seriously though, all modern BP rifles are OK to use, some makers are more "authentic" in their look, but all make a good working rifle. Decide if you want a military repro like the Zouve or Enfield Pattern rifles, or a civilian type like the Hawken, or Trade Rifle. I would suggest a 45 cal Hawken caplock is a good starting point and they can be found from around $400 up. Everything you need for the 45 is readily available fro many places. Essential gear, a single load adjustable powder measure you can fill from a flask, or a number of small containers ( I use vials from a medical laboratory) containing pre-measured charges. Find a copy of the Lyman Black Powder Handbook, a very good intro to BP shooting including a lot of load data for rifle, shotgun and pistol in various calibers and projectiles. Go to the range when Vic Muzzleloading Club are shooting and talk to them. Grow a rhino skin if you want to deal with a certain BP specialist over the eastern suburbs, or see Centreway who have a good range of BP gear. No one caliber can be said to be more inherently accurate than another, but the long barrel 32 cal "squirrel" rifle was preferred by many early frontiersmen in America, rifles such as the Pennsylvania and Kentucky which apart from hunting saw great use during the War of Independence, Cheers

[No1Mk3]

It is also specified in Law here in Vic that you may not hunt with muzzleloading cannon! Put that 2" Artillery Piece down!

[bigpete]

It is also specified in Law here in Vic that you may not hunt with muzzleloading cannon! Put that 2" Artillery Piece down!

Damn,so no 2 bores allowed lol

[bigpete]

You can also make a heck of a lot of your own gear....

[bladeracer]

I'm am looking to get myself a muzzle loader and try some black powder.
I have several rimfire and centrefire rifles already but no muzzle loader.
I was hoping those with experience could list a few things such as:
- reputable reproduction rifles
- manafacturers to steer clear of
- essential equipment
- equipment that turned out to be useless
- best calibre for accuracy
- best calibre for ease of sourcing components, I would like to be able to purchase pre-made projectiles
- tips, do's, don'ts
- any information you feel is pertinent to a newbie looking to try black powder
Thanks in advance for any advice you have to offer.

I'm no kind of expert, so I can understand the sorts of questions you're asking.
Mine is a .45 Hawken Rifle made by Hawkin in NZ in the seventies I think.

I shoot black purely for giggles so haven't done much serious experimenting.
I'd have to check the exact sizes, but I bought boxes of Hornady balls - I think they're .440", .445" and .450", and lubed patches in different thicknesses, as well as ticking.
Then it's a matter of experimenting with different combos of ball diameter, patch thickness and material, and lubes and find out the rifle shoots best. I also bought moulds, but I think the Hornady balls do tend to shoot a little better than my own still. I'd have to check the moulds but I have a variety, different ball diameters, and different shapes, weights and types of bullets. Load development is very time consuming I've found, take copious notes, how many shots you've fired since cleaning and such. I've read that for consistency it can be worthwhile doing the same bore clean after every shot so you remove variable fouling from the experiment, but I'd hate to develop a load that groups great, but requires cleaning after every shot

As for powder, I use Wano FFFg, started at 45gn from memory, and worked up to 90gn. I settled on 75gn as my basic charge so I can concentrate on ball and patch only. I'd have to check my log but I think I found the best so far to be a .440" ball with one or two .005" lubed round patches. I haven't done much with ticking yet as the pre-cut patches are very consistent.

One thing I learned early is you want a consistent stroke of the rod, any variation in seating messed wildly with my velocities. Once I settled on the 75gn charge I marked the rod at the muzzle so I can see when it's resting on a properly seated ball.

I bought a huge bundle of capped plastic vials and pre-throw a lot of 75gn charges, which is a big help I find, not having to measure charges while loading.

[Noisydad]

You’re about to step on to a slippery slope you may be able to get off lol.
A .45 or .50 or .54 would all be good choices for your first smoke pole. Use 3F powder in all of the above unless further load testing proves 2F is better in your rifle.
Use a grain per caliber ie. 50gns in a .50cal etc. as a starting point for your powder. You may not need to go much heavier for a plinking or target load. I’m using 55gn 3f in my .54 and in both my .45s with excellent accuracy.
Patch material matters a lot. You’ll need a tight, dense weave. Something like heavy calico or light denim. Cotton only. A tight ball/patch combo is usually the most accurate but also tougher to load. Patches of About 32mm round or square is a good size.
A short starter is very useful. Make it yourself or buy one. I steel “range rod” that doubles as a cleaning rod is just about vital.
Start cutting 2” squares of old flannelette sheets for cleaning patches now - you’ll need a bazillion of em!

[Oldbloke]

Thanks Noisy. Im still learning too.

Between you and bigpete there must be heaps of good info.

[Supaduke]

Thanks everyone , all very useful information. A caplock definitely seems like the way to go. I do like the look of an 1858 Enfield Navy. Will look around, can only see myself getting one of these rifles so will take my time choosing.

[on_one_wheel]

I'm yet to buy my next muzzle loader, i keep finding things more important to spend my money on.
My Euroarms BP has a lazy 1:60 twist, it's fun and all but had I bought the right one the first time I probably wouldn't be wanting something with a tighter twist to suit big slugs... I'm keen to send big lumps of led

I've got my eye on a new Gibbs Deluxe
Thanks for reminding me
https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda ... eluxe.html

[Supaduke]

That's a lovely looking rifle.

[on_one_wheel]

Isn't it just, black powder porn

Where's the erection emoji when you need one

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[bigpete]

I'd personally love an Indian trade musket....that really floats my boat lol

[bigpete]

Jump on used guns,there's a bunch for sale on there at the moment