fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fund

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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 18 Sep 2019, 3:09 pm

Little river doesn't like star pickets...i am unsure why though.

Lol i rather much prefer we have a discussion about the EVIL TRUMP and how America is going downhill than this.... but need another thread 4 that
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 18 Sep 2019, 3:11 pm

So I have received a reply from Mitch whom has reviewed the thread...

I’m just waiting on confirmation that he is happy for me to copy / paste his reply.
But rest assured that those that have posted about “certification questions” or apparent “laws being changed” - are either completely misinformed or purposefully wrong and fuelling something that more than likely benefits themselves.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by marksman » 18 Sep 2019, 5:10 pm

Ziad wrote:Little river doesn't like star pickets...i am unsure why though.


:lol: because after the ricochet incident at ssaa little river there chief RO took it upon himself to decide what was dangerous or not
he decided that the angle of the star on the star pickets would cause ricochet's :roll: :lol:
his conclusion was that if you angled a steel target you could control a ricochet :lol: :lol: that was after a guy from the MRC who had worked in the armed forces with 35 years experience in tank design (trying to make projectiles deflect off the tanks) told a big room of people that you cannot control a ricochet at all and that the bullet has already ricocheted by the time the swinging steel target starts to swing, (the theory was that the swingers ssaa approved were safe) :lol:
I was in that big group of people and as soon as this very informative guy left the then ssaa operations manager told us all to disregard everything we had just heard :lol: because it was the truth and not what he wanted to hear and thats with the ssaa vic chief executive officer and facilities managers backing

"Lol i rather much prefer we have a discussion about the EVIL TRUMP and how America is going downhill than this.... but need another thread 4 that"
I'd like to get into that one too :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 18 Sep 2019, 6:36 pm

Rotfl ahh people and their pretty politics, see that fkn everywhere.

On topic, i think Tassie has gone to have dinner, i was looking forward to the reply... but what he wrote doesn't make sense to me, so now i am ee em more excited
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Bill » 18 Sep 2019, 7:07 pm

Most range issue are related to the back drop Tassie tiger, please explain who would benefit on this forum from Mitch not being able to operate ??
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Member-Deleted » 18 Sep 2019, 7:52 pm

FAR BIll :thumbsup: :lol: :lol: :sarcasm: I bet they watch this forum :thumbsup: but I have no facts on that just hear say :thumbsup: :wtf:
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Bill » 18 Sep 2019, 8:03 pm

I doubt they would need be on here :lol: , they have their own set of rules and agenda :crazy:
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Member-Deleted » 18 Sep 2019, 8:22 pm

Yes and that could be fact mate the mind boggles to what they could come up with at times :thumbsup: :D :o
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by on_one_wheel » 18 Sep 2019, 8:40 pm

I remember when FAR went after Marksman Indoor in SA

FAR were taken to the cleaners and had to pay out a rather large sum of compensation.
When the truth came out FAR looked extremely bad. I sure hope someone lost their public service job as a result of their bullying.

I hope 365 comes out on top.
I'll be contributing to the cause.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by marksman » 18 Sep 2019, 8:42 pm

Bill wrote:Most range issue are related to the back drop Tassie tiger, please explain who would benefit on this forum from Mitch not being able to operate ??


only my opinion Bill but I dont see anyone on this forum who would benefit but as said FAR will and I suspect anyone who thinks they could get the range if Mitch cannot get it operating again, the antis would also love this range being shut down

I had a look at the gunlobby link posted up by No1_49er and there was this little gem by shooting stuff australia, thankyou juststarting :lol: pew pew
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL9juTrOsNw
this IMO is a very good watch :drinks:
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 19 Sep 2019, 8:39 am

SO, geez I hate getting in the middle...
Bill - you've asked who might benefit from 365 being closed down ? simple...any comparable business or range would...as would any advocates of tall poppy syndrome. a few on here no doubt. It sounds like your still dirty on the plastic trigger comment I made re M18 - get over it mate.

Mitch - rightly so - has to be very cautious as to what is made public and associated to his name.

Here is his initial reply;
Hi XXXXXXX,
Thanks for getting in touch and letting me know about the thread.
It’s funny about some of these rumours going about, I’m not 100% on where they started but I have a good bloody idea.

I’m not sure what they guys are getting at on the forum about certification? The range is fully approved by the Firearms Registry and has been running for 10 years in fact, 365 PT is fully licensed, insured and certified to operate. We actually have a police commissioners permit from the Firearms Registry to run our courses, we have been running since 2017.

There is no compliance issues nor has there ever been, there are plenty of LR schools running around though who are operating illegally on private land but for some reason we who have done everything buy the book seem to be the centre of attention.
SSAA writers have attended our courses and loved every minute of it, we have had great support from a few SSAA small branch’s.

Unfortunately I don’t have time to comment on every forum or group that sparks this up in convo and I just ignore the rumours. We have had good support from NSW police users who have attended our courses.

If anyone has any issues or concerns they can contact me via phone or email, it’s plastered all over our website.
Thank you for making me aware of the convo.
Regards
Mitch Brewer
Last edited by TassieTiger on 19 Sep 2019, 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 19 Sep 2019, 8:49 am

I replied to Mitch - seeking permission to post the above and was met various additional correspondence.
I'm going to refrain from posting all the correspondence we have had (I'll post some exerts) but Mitch is clearly very frustrated with the rumour mills that split the community....

"We have had a couple of haters since day one, funnily enough they also run a LR school in another state. They seem to take any opportunity to spread disinformation and try and smear us, this has failed many times for them. They have tried it all, it’s quite surprising to me. I never thought there were so many people who would like to see some one having a go fall down, it’s a shame we have these negative people in this industry, if we all just stuck together and looked after each other no matter what avenue of shooting we like we would be in a much better place. "

"So far out of all this XXX fight I have come to learn a few things about a couple of organisations, if people new they would be XXXX and understand why they are losing rights with both their shooting and ranges. If only they new that the fighting I’m doing now via email with registry will cover all ranges in NSW. I am just one person with hardly any money compared to the big guys we pay, so far in my talks with registry, I am doing more for nsw ranges then some certain organisations have ever tried to do. "

"I would be happy to discus this with you but I will not announce it publicly as I could only imagine the back lash I would cop for it and the affect it would have on my business. I am only trying to help everyone with this but I now understand why we do not have power as we do not stick together. "
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Bill » 19 Sep 2019, 9:00 am

Sorry tassie tiger but I'm not sure why ur trying to attach plastic triggers to this conversation, u certainly re a strange fellow :lol:

Good luck to Mitch and his fight then
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 19 Sep 2019, 9:49 am

Thanks for your help on here Bill - the world is boring without rumours and innuendo...what was it you said? - the principal will not win this...

Further update - it looks like this might be potentially resolved prior to attending court - more than likely in 365's favour.
I wonder Sungazer - do you think there might be any fall back on to the FAR, their range officers, police - by nearly bankrupting a farmer and bulldozing a small business operator ? Are you going to go into bat for this operator if it does come out that he was telling the truth ?

This now likely outcome, raises the question about all the donations that were given - refunds are being considered - its difficult situation but the owner has acknowledged on his site that the money is certainly not his so a solution has to be found...
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by sungazer » 19 Sep 2019, 10:11 am

Yes I do think there will be fall back on the FAR and all those that were or are concerned if it has not been handled and managed properly.

Just for your info I have no "hate" or bad feelings about this guy and his business and I certainly do not have any conflicting business interests in any state.

So we will have to wait and see for the exact "What" and "Why"
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 19 Sep 2019, 10:20 am

sungazer wrote:Yes I do think there will be fall back on the FAR and all those that were or are concerned if it has not been handled and managed properly.

Just for your info I have no "hate" or bad feelings about this guy and his business and I certainly do not have any conflicting business interests in any state.

So we will have to wait and see for the exact "What" and "Why"


Maybe I’m cynical - maybe I’ve seen a little too much - I hope I’m wrong, but I’ll put my left one on the line that SFA will not bear a single cautionary letter, let alone anything significant...if it settles out of court, I’d bet my other one the NDA’s will be prolific and we won’t hear regardless...
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by sungazer » 19 Sep 2019, 12:27 pm

Dont worry I am cynical too. I think (my opinion) if they settle out of court he is probably admitting to being partly at fault unless he is being offered compensation in that deal. Other wise he should sue them for compensation lost income damage to business name personal medical implications stress ect that case may settle out of court with a compensation.

Do you think he may have overstepped the mark by saying the range was closed and the farmer is loosing out on a huge amount of income? Creating an emotional plea that may not have been 100% correct.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 19 Sep 2019, 12:32 pm

sungazer wrote:Dont worry I am cynical too. I think (my opinion) if they settle out of court he is probably admitting to being partly at fault unless he is being offered compensation in that deal. Other wise he should sue them for compensation lost income damage to business name personal medical implications stress ect that case may settle out of court with a compensation.

Do you think he may have overstepped the mark by saying the range was closed and the farmer is loosing out on a huge amount of income? Creating an emotional plea that may not have been 100% correct.


Emotional plea?
Potentially - but I try and put myself in his position and think how would I respond/act...well the govt is an endless supply of money / resources and in the short term, he no doubt felt alone and exasperated by an almost unwinnable situation and going by this gents pure frustration (and haven now spoken to the gent, I will call him a true gent), I’d say yes - he has gone for an emotional plea...would I hold that against him, absolutely not...the govt is big and scary when they come at you as a small business and you’ll take almost any help you can get.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by marksman » 19 Sep 2019, 2:31 pm

Thankyou Tassie for going to the trouble of straightening this out, I'm sure that will make a few who listened to the bullchit rumours donate
its got me farked why every time there is a firearm related issue the divide between shooters happens, the rumours start and heads go into the sand
really this guy is on his own and doing it for all shooters and ranges, he deserves a helping hand because he is doing it for us

united we stand and divided we fall, they do this sort of crap and get away with it because we divide, show some support
Stix was dead right, to many people getting sucked into gossip :thumbsdown:its not up to us to be the judge and jury :drinks:
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Bill » 19 Sep 2019, 2:42 pm

Tassie tiger not sure why u come here with cheap shops but that says more a out your character.

I just stated as fact based upon my own country towns range getting shut down this year cause they deemed the back stop had development infringe on it, making the range unsuitable for any activity.

Anyway carry on as you will.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 19 Sep 2019, 4:04 pm

Bill - you crucified this man and his business, stating there were certification issues with the range, withheld truths, etc and you wouldn’t be supporting him - based on absolute pure Horseshit and as a result - you dragged some others along for the ride...
Your now complaining to me about having a cheap shot at you and my character flaws? Ok mate...
As MM said, United we stand, divided we fall...
Unfortunately I don’t see much hope, when People from within the shooting community, openly choose to vilify their own like in this case...especially when it’s based on rumour, innuendo, jealousy perhaps...and of course made up...”fact”.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Member-Deleted » 19 Sep 2019, 5:00 pm

Hey Tassie mate you've done well to get some decent info I read a post clip from mitch I think it was on here somewhere pretty much stating what you have shown us
I to thought there was more to the story so i'm guilty of being sceptical but at no time did I condemn this man nor would I namely because all the facts as you have shown were not in, why I think some people said their piece was because most couldn't believe the FAR and range inspectors could be so stupid to do something like what has occurred ''not saying that that was ok ''so I think this should clear up a few gaps in the affair I donated very early in the matter and have no regrets even though at the time I had thought that there must have been more to the story and thought time would have brought it to the fore I hope this is settled to his and the farmers liking and those that have caused this problem get their just desserts although I to think that is only wishful thinking :thumbsup:
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 19 Sep 2019, 5:15 pm

It’s probably a bit unfair of me to have a shot at Bill as I have - But i just get extremely frustrated when, here was an example of someone having a crack, the facts as presented showed decent if not perfect compliance and instead of rallying as a group to get behind a fellow shooter - ppl make sh*t up to pull others down(by all means, if you want to post up sources to your rumours, do so)...it’s the one thing that will screw all of us over in the long run vs those trying to ban the sport and I don’t understand it.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by sungazer » 19 Sep 2019, 5:28 pm

IMHO I still think there is an infringement or a misunderstanding of the certification at the center of all the dispute. I would put money on it come down to shooting a steel gongs with high power rifles ie more than the 1500fps.

Having on opinion or guess on a forum is not crucifying a guy. Something happened we don't know what chat and guessing is going to be natural. Nothing I say on here is going to effect any outcome or influence anybody else.

Where it may have gone further is if the officer thought that any type of tactical or even defensive training was occurring as in perhaps a Prepper type class. We are not allowed to defend ourselves here in Aus thank goodness most of the crazy's dont have guns. Home invasions still something we never had 10 years ago. I only mention this because Mitch also alluded to it when he said the FAR guys were questioning the shooters about this sort of stuff. Its a reason why a lot of ranges wont allow cammo clothes on the range. A step to far in my opinion camo seems to be one of the fashionable colours in a lot of clothing and my warmest jacket is a cammo.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Bill » 19 Sep 2019, 5:29 pm

gee Tassie tiger nobody has been crucified lol, Im guessing you'd probably argue with your own cat, and having a conversation on NSW ranges issues and FAR that have occured in recent times seems to be a no go zone because you see it as dividing and attacking, mate Id suggest you stop winding yourself up over this issue.

Like most people I like when go fund me was used by people trying to raise money to help sick kids and alike.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by Member-Deleted » 19 Sep 2019, 5:50 pm

All's good Tassie I won't get involved in the Bill / Tassie issue but I do under stand what rumors do to peoples lives I lost customers in my business partly through rumors I was forced to sell up and go into bankruptcy but one golden piece to come out of all that was '' When dealing with the public ''which this forum is'' there are so many different opinions and in amongst them are the ''embellishers'' not liers just add onto situation which then grows into a rumor unbeknowns to the embellisher that's why when I went bankrupt I shouted from the roof tops the '' FACTS'' so all could hear something that was not forth coming in old mates case it shouldn't have taken you as a good gesture on your own to make this happen again well done I say this because there was enough time passed for the embellishment to grow into this monster '' rumor'' of which can make a life and can tear it down in an instant most people that give their embellished side of the story most likely aren't aware of the embellishment but just throw it into the conversation some even can force the point to saying it's true but then it becomes a lie and is now dangerous mankind will never get rid of embellishment because we like a good chat and we are so competitive in everything we do frustration is just a bad add on to rumor, debate ,commonsense, and speaking the truth as you see it are 3 ways I know to defunct rumors ( long winded I know but mate you're dead right about we all need to heed rumors and unite for a good cause ) :thumbsup: :drinks:
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by TassieTiger » 19 Sep 2019, 6:30 pm

Bill wrote:gee Tassie tiger nobody has been crucified lol, Im guessing you'd probably argue with your own cat, and having a conversation on NSW ranges issues and FAR that have occured in recent times seems to be a no go zone because you see it as dividing and attacking, mate Id suggest you stop winding yourself up over this issue.

Like most people I like when go fund me was used by people trying to raise money to help sick kids and alike.


Nice work Bill - You posts say it all.
enough said now from me. I’ll move on.
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by marksman » 19 Sep 2019, 8:44 pm

sungazer wrote:IMHO I still think there is an infringement or a misunderstanding of the certification at the center of all the dispute. I would put money on it come down to shooting a steel gongs with high power rifles ie more than the 1500fps.

Having on opinion or guess on a forum is not crucifying a guy. Something happened we don't know what chat and guessing is going to be natural. Nothing I say on here is going to effect any outcome or influence anybody else.

Where it may have gone further is if the officer thought that any type of tactical or even defensive training was occurring as in perhaps a Prepper type class. We are not allowed to defend ourselves here in Aus thank goodness most of the crazy's dont have guns. Home invasions still something we never had 10 years ago. I only mention this because Mitch also alluded to it when he said the FAR guys were questioning the shooters about this sort of stuff. Its a reason why a lot of ranges wont allow cammo clothes on the range. A step to far in my opinion camo seems to be one of the fashionable colours in a lot of clothing and my warmest jacket is a cammo.


with all due respect sungazer you still sound like you are picking at straws :unknown: like he has to have done something wrong for this to happen
I am not saying that you are crucifying Mitch or his business but you are just putting up an opinion without showing any facts :unknown:
and you are not the only one doing it
I think you are very knowledgeable with what you are involved with rifles ect related and you have a lot of comp/range experience therefore you know as well as l do about the licensing divisions power over ranges for there templates, law/legislation or not, its not like they are on the shooters side is it :unknown:
guessing only helps spread sh!t talk, IMHO you really need to have a chat with Mitch to sort out your what you believe is not quite right,
he has asked people to do just that so there is an end to the bullsh!t rumours

now as for the theory about tactical or defensive training being illegal can you give a link to show it is illegal
I consider IPSC as a tactical/defence way of shooting/training and they shoot steel gongs at very close distances, meters away with no shrouds or anything to stop a ricochet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCxMgBfgTb0
ssaa even has a law enforcement activities discipline :unknown:

I also disagree with you saying that 10 years ago we never heard of home invasions because we did, just not by the sudanese :lol:

to be honest the clubs I have had anything to do with dont allow camo clothing because they do not want to be associated with hunters, and that is fact it has nothing to do with tactical, defensive or the prepper type's, I have had big debates with idiots from clubs who reckon its a good idea, usually the ones enforcing it, farkwits want a dress code so it makes the sport look better, they need to understand that not everyone likes eating paper :lol:

so as I said earlier it might be a good idea to drop Mitch an email with what you are thinking :drinks: and then get back to us, let us know how you went
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by fitchaj » 19 Sep 2019, 9:41 pm

TassieTiger wrote:It’s probably a bit unfair of me to have a shot at Bill as I have - But i just get extremely frustrated when, here was an example of someone having a crack, the facts as presented showed decent if not perfect compliance and instead of rallying as a group to get behind a fellow shooter - ppl make sh*t up to pull others down(by all means, if you want to post up sources to your rumours, do so)...it’s the one thing that will screw all of us over in the long run vs those trying to ban the sport and I don’t understand it.


I don't think you were unfair at all. He was carrying on like a gossip Queen and got caught out. Has to sting
fitchaj
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Re: fundraiser for 365 precision training legal fighting fun

Post by sungazer » 19 Sep 2019, 10:52 pm

@Marksman I understand what you are saying and agree with a lot of your points. But I also think that it is human nature when you dont know the reason for something you naturally make your own personal explanation for it, (Best guess). Thats all I am doing and sharing it because it is being discussed here. I may be out of step with everyone else.

Even though I make up my own reason for the action I can still support the cause in general as a shooter wanting to have a voice and be united. The only reason I have to make my best guess at a reason this occurred is Mitch as not come out and given us what the reasons given by the FAR are. I am not going to go around spreading what i think as the true facts or perpetuate anyone else's opinions as a rumor.

The reason I mentioned the tactical training bit is because of the current climate against that sort of training. There is certainly a "cloak and dagger rule" about not setting up any sort of para military type training courses camps. America is now carrying out assassinations in countries with no declared war even against there own citizens without any form of judicial hearing. I make reference to an American muslem cleric preaching in Yenem. The world seems to be operating as anything goes if it can be linked to the war on terrorism and the links can sometimes seem very week to me. There are private companies that do provide tactical training and they make it very clear that it is for law enforcement, government agencies only and have special permission.

Crime rate and the rate of more violent crimes I think you will find has increased over the years. I certainly have that feeling is that just the media giving me that feeling or is it a real increase. Governments don't want to disclose that. They have a ban on giving/ reporting any ethnic details about crime unless it is a white male. Still it seems a lot more violent. Did we have car jacking 10 years ago? they are quite regular now, that must be a horrifying experience.
I made this comment because I disagree with the law that deprives us of being able to basically defend ourselves without fear of ending up being the bad guy.

The cammo comment again I disagree with the ranges that have this rule. What is wrong with being associated with hunters?

I made these comments to try and show I think I have a balanced and what i think is a sensible approach to include all shooters as LAFO, So there should be no need for different groups to try and distance themselves or say we are better than them sort of thing.
sungazer
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