Howa v/s Lithgow v/s Tikka?

[Bill]

Something that can be hard to find in a tikka is soul, whilst a perfectly good functioning tool it just feels cold in the hands, contrast that with the warm feeling of a Blued steel Howa...

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

The thing that I like about the Tikka's as well is the fact that they're made in Finland

When I was a kid growing up
I always got told that Finland had incredibly great quality control
(The whole of Europe generally has great quality control but Finland even more I always got told)

And in Finland, they have a massive gun culture there, they have a massive hunting culture there, that's why I guess I trust the Finnish people a lot more when it comes to firearms since firearms and hunting are such an incredibly big part of their culture

Howa even though it has great reviews and feedback from people
Howa on the other hand is a Japanese brand
And firearms are not part of the Japanese culture at all
I think that 99% of the Japanese population probably don't even know anything about firearms
It's even wayyyyyyyy harder to get a firearm in Japan
Historically speaking; they have way closer ties to samurai swords instead of firearms

That's why I guess Tikka gives me a greater peace of mind
(Due to the Finnish extreme historical and cultural ties to firearms)

I don't know if anyone agrees with that logic but yeah

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Thanks Flutch

I'll probably end up buying a Howa as well

But I don't know

I seem to feel something special for Tikka's haha

[bladeracer]

You could own six Howas or this Barnard. I would be proud to own the Barnard and it is a pleasure to use one.

https://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=161025

Probably a great choice, if you're into shooting competition.

[bigfellascott]

yeah, the HACT is adjustable, Mines all the way down around a few ounces, with 0 creep, like a really hairy set trigger lol, safety still works and shoots like a dream.

also TheFirearmEnthusiast, I wouldn't say howa isn't quality. plenty of tikka shooters have wanted my 223.

Yep got a few Sako owners who were wondering why they bought Sakos after seeing and using my Howas - everyone one of em said that f***ing things shoots amazing for the $$$ - I've owned a Sako and sold it, haven't sold a Howa yet!

Howa actions smooth up just fine if ya know what ya doing and the triggers can be made very crisp indeed again if you know what you are doing. I've had to modify my Tikka Trigger as it wasn't as good as my Howas after they were worked, (from memory I filled down the grub screw in the Tikka) can't remember now if I trimmed a ring of the spring or just changed the spring for a lighter one.

The other thing I liked about the Howas over the tikka I own is it's ability to be top loaded, which comes in handy when spotlighting.

[Bill]

you might want to read up on modern Quality Control mate, its what the Japanese perfected not the Finnish

https://www.bpir.com/total-quality-mana ... r.com.html

the last rifle I sold was a Tikka, it could only manage 5 shot moa with factory ammo, it was replaced with a Ruger that shoots 0.5 moa or less with factory ammo, dont get caught up with the hype Tikka Fanboi's put out there.

and my next rifle will be a Howa 6.5 PRC HB for long range work, just waiting for confirmation on an ETA to OZ

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Mm

It seems that the Tikka's and the Howa's are both such great rifle brands
(Based on what you guys are saying)

They seem to be both so good

I'll probably end up buying both and see which one I like the most

A lot of people seem to love Howa's
(Which is a great sign)

Would you guys say that the action of the Howa's are just as smooth as the action of the Tikka's or?

It's hard to explain
But to me
When a rifle has an incredibly silky smooth action
It's just so incredibly pleasant
It's such an incredibly pleasant experience
It gives you such pleasure operating the rifle when the action is silky smooth

[Steve-0]

As far as Tikkas go, I would love a hunter stainless with the fluted barrel in 7mm rem mag.
Lithgows I think are a real nice gun, haven't shot one but shouldered one at shot show, and it felt really good, it had the laminated stock. Mint.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Mm

I may listen to you Bill

I may look more into the Howa's

They do sound great according to what everyone is saying

[MontyShooter]

I've got a few tikkas and think they are great. The bolt is very loose in the action so gives the impression it's smooth. They don't seem to be the bargain they once we're though.
However the metal to metal finish on my lithgows is so much better. If the la102 wasn't so heavy, I'd hunt with it as it's crazy accurate in 308 and 223.

I don't own a howa yet but have come very close to getting the howa bravo in 6mm a few times. The howa is a rem 700 clone which can't be a bad thing. They are a good budget rifle.

[SCJ429]

you might want to read up on modern Quality Control mate, its what the Japanese perfected not the Finnish

https://www.bpir.com/total-quality-mana ... r.com.html

the last rifle I sold was a Tikka, it could only manage 5 shot moa with factory ammo, it was replaced with a Ruger that shoots 0.5 moa or less with factory ammo, dont get caught up with the hype Tikka Fanboi's put out there.

and my next rifle will be a Howa 6.5 PRC HB for long range work, just waiting for confirmation on an ETA to OZ

Don't be fooled that the Japanese have a monopoly on QA Bill. The Chinese are not know for QA but they have a space program and when they put their mind and money to it they can do things as well as any one.

Have you noticed that Scandinavian country's are know for quality firearms products made by Bofors, Alliant, Sako, Norma and Lapua to name a few.

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Would you say that the Tikka's are of better/of more premium quality than the Howa's SCJ429?

In all honesty
Being new to firearms
I find it quite surprising that the Japanese make firearms, in the sense that they have no cultural links nor do they have any historical links with firearms whatsover
Firearms are not part of the Japanese culture at all
So interesting that they make firearms
I was surprised when I heard that Howa was Japanese

[flutch]

Would you say that the Tikka's are of better/of more premium quality than the Howa's SCJ429?

In all honesty
Being new to firearms
I find it quite surprising that the Japanese make firearms, in the sense that they have no cultural links nor do they have any historical links with firearms whatsover
Firearms are not part of the Japanese culture at all
So interesting that they make firearms
I was surprised when I heard that Howa was Japanese

The Japanese have always filled in market space with their manufacturing, there isn't a great demand for big 4+ litre off-road vehicles there either but they're the world leaders in that regards, having made the patrol, cruiser and pajero's for years as well as very capable small 4x4 vehicles like the suzuki's. there is no arguing their ability in this regards however they themselves don't have a huge market for it.

Howa also manufacture the Vanguard series rifles for Weatherby and also used to manufacture rifles for CMC here in Australia as well as for, and this is a big one, Sako.

that and they obviously have a military. HOWA automatic rifles used to be standard issue for them, and may well be still I don't know.

[sungazer]

This exact topic has been done to death before. I would rate the Lithgow the top in the fit finish and accuracy department. The Howa is not a Remington clone completely different for one it has a square and flat base to the action the Remington 700 actions are round. The Howa's are not what I would call beautiful rifles the are very good value rifles they perform the task they were designed to do, they have great accuracy for the money. The Tikkas are probably twice as much and depending on the model you buy can be very nice looking guns they perform accurately as well but you paid more to get the same or perhaps a little less in the accuracy department. There seems to be more variance going by the feedback you read. I have only seen good ones.

[Bill]

for the price of 1 Tikka I can get 2 Howa's and have twice the fun

[SCJ429]

Would you say that the Tikka's are of better/of more premium quality than the Howa's SCJ429?

In all honesty
Being new to firearms
I find it quite surprising that the Japanese make firearms, in the sense that they have no cultural links nor do they have any historical links with firearms whatsover
Firearms are not part of the Japanese culture at all
So interesting that they make firearms
I was surprised when I heard that Howa was Japanese

Yes, the machining is better than what you get in a Howa, but it better be for the price. Howa make a brilliant rifle which costs them including materials and machine work, around $200. It costs me more than that to get my gunsmith to chamber and fit a barrel for me.

If you bought a Howa in 223 and it shoots better than MOA at 100 metres, you have a bargain for the $400 you spent. If you buy one in a bigger caliber like 308, you may be disappointed.. I have been working with a friends Howa and have tricked up the trigger, bedded it, recrowned it and done extensive load development. The best group to date was 0.680 and after 500 rounds through it, it is still the worst copper fouling barrel I have seen after Remington barrels.

By contrast another friend bought a Tikka Varmint in 308, it doesn't copper foul and has shot 1/2 MOA using cheap bullets from Speer and Hornady and shoots 168 ELDM in the low 0.3s. The Tikka is factory standard using the Tupperware stock and the only modification is a $20 trigger spring from Yo Dave.

My stock Tikka 223 Varmint shot a 0.950 group at 300 in competition, I have not seen anyone with a Howa do this. It is not because of my ability, I am not Australia's number one competition shooter, just a fox hunter who gets some practice in between hunts shooting long range competition.

[PCHammond]

Would you say that the Tikka's are of better/of more premium quality than the Howa's SCJ429?

In all honesty
Being new to firearms
I find it quite surprising that the Japanese make firearms, in the sense that they have no cultural links nor do they have any historical links with firearms whatsover
Firearms are not part of the Japanese culture at all
So interesting that they make firearms
I was surprised when I heard that Howa was Japanese

Japan has had a long history with firearms, being right near China. They have used firearms in larger scales since the 1500s.

They made plenty of firearms pre 1945 and were involved in plenty of wars as we should all know.

Howa still make rifles for the Japanese Army today. Mitsubishi make jets and tanks and ships and stuff.

Japan also churns out alot of high quality scopes/optics.

[Bill]

SCJ429 I had a Howa mini HB 223 and the first group my mate and current owner shot with Fiocchi factory ammo went sub 0.5 moa for 5 shots, for someone who's never owned a Howa you seem a little full of opinion.

[solarpak]

I own all three of the makes mentioned.......

The Lithgow LA102 has suffered in the wake of the rebarelling fiasco and you cant give away used LA102's.......(tried selling my as new 308 for $1K and no takers!).........even though its a great shooting rifle the bad blood is still there.

Tikka T3x - a good rifle indeed but the price creep from the T3 to the T3x was substantial and you aren't getting that much more for the extra $$

Howa - the pick of the three - three actions lengths, can buy as a barelled action and fit whatever stock you desire.......Simple but tried and tested design.
You can buy a hogue stocked howa or mini action with the HTI polymer stock for around $800 and your good to go (just add scope bases and rings)

C.

[bigfellascott]

To right Bill, Howa were that good they used to make parts for Sako back in the day! A good indication of how good their quality must have been that Sako Outsourced some of their manufacturing to them and I believe the reason it stopped was that Howa started making a copy of one of their rifles and called it the Golden Bear if memory serves me correctly, as a result a law suit was taken out for Copy Right infringements if memory serves me correctly.

Howa actually manufacture a lot of things not just rifles, it's a well known manufacturing company that makes a lot of precision machinery for other companies to manufacture their products on, they even manufacture military rifles and machine guns .

[TheFirearmEnthusiast]

Mm

I guess that's true

However
Whenever I think about "Gun Culture Countries"
I think about:
- America
- Australia
- Canada
- Western Europe
- Scandinavia (For sure)

I wouldn't think about Japan as a "Gun Culture Country" anymore

But I guess it's true that in the past, they have had firearm experience
(Especially during World War 2 with imperial Japan etc)

[SCJ429]

SCJ429 I had a Howa mini HB 223 and the first group my mate and current owner shot with Fiocchi factory ammo went sub 0.5 moa for 5 shots, for someone who's never owned a Howa you seem a little full of opinion.

I am entitled to my opinion, as are you. I have also been around and have seen and shot quite a few Howas. I also said previously in this thread that I had seen a couple of Howas chambered in 223 that shot quite well.

If you love your Howa, more power to you. I see value elsewhere. I love Bat Macine and wish all my rifles were made by them. Unfortunately I don't own any. It doesn't mean I cannot have an opinion regarding Bat Machine. Please don't go telling me that you think your Howa is better than Bat Machine.

Out of interest, what is the best group you have shot at longer ranges with your Howas?

[SCJ429]

Mm

I guess that's true

However
Whenever I think about "Gun Culture Countries"
I think about:
- America
- Australia
- Canada
- Western Europe
- Scandinavia (For sure)

I wouldn't think about Japan as a "Gun Culture Country" anymore

But I guess it's true that in the past, they have had firearm experience
(Especially during World War 2 with imperial Japan etc)

The USA has a gun culture and it makes some of the best rifles but unfortunately it makes some of the not so good as well. Remington and Browning are chief offenders.

[bigfellascott]

I own all three of the makes mentioned.......

The Lithgow LA102 has suffered in the wake of the rebarelling fiasco and you cant give away used LA102's.......(tried selling my as new 308 for $1K and no takers!).........even though its a great shooting rifle the bad blood is still there.

Tikka T3x - a good rifle indeed but the price creep from the T3 to the T3x was substantial and you aren't getting that much more for the extra $$

Howa - the pick of the three - three actions lengths, can buy as a barelled action and fit whatever stock you desire.......Simple but tried and tested design.
You can buy a hogue stocked howa or mini action with the HTI polymer stock for around $800 and your good to go (just add scope bases and rings)

C.

Howa actions are based on a old Sako Action Design - Basically Howa owners own a Japanese Sako

[bigfellascott]

This exact topic has been done to death before. I would rate the Lithgow the top in the fit finish and accuracy department. The Howa is not a Remington clone completely different for one it has a square and flat base to the action the Remington 700 actions are round. The Howa's are not what I would call beautiful rifles the are very good value rifles they perform the task they were designed to do, they have great accuracy for the money. The Tikkas are probably twice as much and depending on the model you buy can be very nice looking guns they perform accurately as well but you paid more to get the same or perhaps a little less in the accuracy department. There seems to be more variance going by the feedback you read. I have only seen good ones.

Howas are a copy of the old Sako Action!

[bigfellascott]

Mm

It seems that the Tikka's and the Howa's are both such great rifle brands
(Based on what you guys are saying)

They seem to be both so good

I'll probably end up buying both and see which one I like the most

A lot of people seem to love Howa's
(Which is a great sign)

Would you guys say that the action of the Howa's are just as smooth as the action of the Tikka's or?

It's hard to explain
But to me
When a rifle has an incredibly silky smooth action
It's just so incredibly pleasant
It's such an incredibly pleasant experience
It gives you such pleasure operating the rifle when the action is silky smooth

My CMC Mountaineer (Howa) is as smooth as my Tikka - slightly looser in the race but honestly she's a pretty slick little action for the $400 I paid for it new many many years ago. Anyway it doesn't take much to make an action smooth, valve grinding paste, autosol or similar soon has any action moving freely and smoothly. (if it can make a Ruger Action smooth it can make anything smooth!

[Bill]

Ya killing me Bigfellascott

Ive had 3 Sako's yet none find a home in my safe anymore legends in their day, Howa is now the real deal and fit my budget.

each to their own SCJ429, Tikka make a great product ( the VW of rifles) but plenty of flaws and and a RRP that I find slightly delusional, they are a $700 gun but a hell of a profit earner for SAKO.

[bigfellascott]

Yes, the machining is better than what you get in a Howa, but it better be for the price. Howa make a brilliant rifle which costs them including materials and machine work, around $200. It costs me more than that to get my gunsmith to chamber and fit a barrel for me.

If you bought a Howa in 223 and it shoots better than MOA at 100 metres, you have a bargain for the $400 you spent. If you buy one in a bigger caliber like 308, you may be disappointed.. I have been working with a friends Howa and have tricked up the trigger, bedded it, recrowned it and done extensive load development. The best group to date was 0.680 and after 500 rounds through it, it is still the worst copper fouling barrel I have seen after Remington barrels.

By contrast another friend bought a Tikka Varmint in 308, it doesn't copper foul and has shot 1/2 MOA using cheap bullets from Speer and Hornady and shoots 168 ELDM in the low 0.3s. The Tikka is factory standard using the Tupperware stock and the only modification is a $20 trigger spring from Yo Dave.

My stock Tikka 223 Varmint shot a 0.950 group at 300 in competition, I have not seen anyone with a Howa do this. It is not because of my ability, I am not Australia's number one competition shooter, just a fox hunter who gets some practice in between hunts shooting long range competition.

What stock are your mates Howas wearing? those Hogue stocks are ordinary off a bench, fine off had apparently. I can't say my Tikka has been great in the grouping dept - 308 fluted hunter, from memory the best group so far with 130gn speer factory ammo has been around the 1.5" range so nothing special about that.

On the flip side my 22.250 Howas first group was around .5" @100m using cheap rem factory ammo. My Howa 204 shot very very tiny groups with factory ammo .3's or smaller from memory, my 222 CMC Mountaineer was ordinary with factory ammo but a quick bedding job and handloads soon had that shooting 1 hole groups too, a mate and I had a shoot off quite a few years ago now, him with his Sako 223 and me with the 222 and we had very similar sized groups some were better with the Sako and the Howa had some groups better than his Sako 85 and he does all that fancy case prep stuff and I just stuff em and shoot em and from memory he as the set trigger in his.

[Bill]

I like how my Howa's are Pillar bedded

[SCJ429]

He has a Boyds laminated stock on it.