Bill wrote:good friendships require work, what you put in is what you'll get out !!
Farmerpete wrote:As a farmer I'm with ziad on this one.
a lot of guys on this forum think that farmers should be indebted to them for hunting but I pay the rates and fix the broken stuff when shooters break it I also hold a gun license so I don't really need you to shoot on my land.
I used to allow it because it was the nice thing to do
I no longer let people on, the last straw was a guy driving through a wire rope used to guide my irrigator because pig. If I didn't see it I would have been paying a couple hundred thousand for a new irrigator when it fell over
As nice of a notion it is that your saving the farmer money or time the truth is I can kill more pigs in a week using a bag of chook food a night and 1 can of cssp(pig poison) on the last night then hunters can shoot in a month, just proved that last month.
The reason I keep a gun is the occasional crafty bugger that's been shot at or trapped previously and takes some energy to kill
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying all shooters are irresponsible or don't care I'm just saying past experience and the fact I'm liable (insurance wise) for what happens when I let you on makes me cagey about letting people on unsupervised at least a safari makes the operator liable not the land owner
Not trying to upset people Just trying to give a little perspective
Blr243 wrote:I’m aware that when I shoot three dozen pigs I’m not even scratching the surface........wild dogs and foxes are different , a landholder benefits well from just a few gone. I once heard of a safari client accidentally shooting a farmers dog while spotlighting. And the shot was under the supervision of the guide ....they are no longer welcome
Die Judicii wrote:You say you've "phoned" various stations to ask permission.
BIG MISTAKE.
Unless you already know and have met in person the owner or manager of a station,,,, they would never in a blue fit give you permission.
Personally face to face introduce yourself so they can at least make a reasonable assumption of what and who you are.
If you can show/prove that you are suitably insured would also be a positive in your favor.
Die Judicii wrote:You say you've "phoned" various stations to ask permission.
BIG MISTAKE.
Unless you already know and have met in person the owner or manager of a station,,,, they would never in a blue fit give you permission.
Personally face to face introduce yourself so they can at least make a reasonable assumption of what and who you are.
If you can show/prove that you are suitably insured would also be a positive in your favor.
Spanielz11 wrote:Sadly it seems to be the way these days, what with all the tools going around being flogs on property and screwing it for anyone else. It honestly is either you are really matey mate with someone or your chances are slim. Again depending on your locality can greatly reduce any chance at all, i.e no public state forest or the like to us.
Looks like the old days of heading out to property with a couple dozen eggs, milk and the local paper are far behind us, at least in the region where i am located.
Wapiti wrote:It really is a shame to see some shooters take places they go for granted, the way some behave, and some even expecting farmers to pay THEM. Not in all cases sure, but here, you'd only have to go into the local farm joint and get a list of people who'd be out in a flash for nix, locals too.
We priced the extra premium for having hunters on, to "cover" us, it was between $600 and $1100 a year. I'd bet 99% of farms wouldn't even consider this, until they have a shooter who rolls a quad and breaks his neck, or anything else, and sues. Because the guest will sue, as his family now has lost a bread winner. And having the insurance doesn't stop you from being taken to court initially, with the insurance company looking to minimise their payout.
This is a big risk, and this is the world we live in now. I have heard, that some places are demanding to see personal liability insurance for pro shooters before they are allowed on, as legally they are no different from a subby tradesman who can't start on a site without his personal liability, as there's money involved. The SSAA insurance in your membership doesn't cover any of this, ask them. We did.
So why can't a farmer charge for the use of his place to get some money out of it? Nobody goes to a national park for free, or a 4wd park either.
Wapiti wrote:Hi Granddadbushy, I called SSAA Insurance to ask and they told me the automatic members insurance doesn't cover my liability for having anyone on the place. My wife and I are both in the Shooters Union also, same deal with them. They could probably explain it better than I ever could and only know the yes and no of it.
We sat down with Wesfarmers WFI who do our stuff last year, to make sure we have covered ourselves properly in this day and age, the manager was absolutely insistent we either don't let anyone past the gate without specialist liability insurance (which they won't touch as it's not worth the trouble, he reckons) or don't let anyone on at all.
He told us of a few farmers who have lost their complete life's work from a hunter rolling a quad and being TPD, vehicle and firearm accidents resulting in that and worse, he hears the worst of it. So we started to look around, and it's expensive.
I bet most farmers have no idea how serious this legal liability stupidity is, and think their 10 or 20 mil liability in teir farm and contents covers it but it does not.
Spanielz11 that's a real gracious thing to say, that you'd pay the cost to get access, sole access of course. Most wouldn't though, either money is tight or would rather see it as a favour exchange.
Working for favours is something that's a mixed bag, some farmers would love a sparky to install an aircon or plumber to sort out a bathroom in exchange for hunting, others know then that it's now an "exchange of favours" which is the same as paying a daily rate to hunt, in the eyes of the law. That ups the liability again. Its actually less of a potential cost to get someone in to do the job whos an insured subcontractor. The world is rapidly becoming very difficult, and it's the lawyers that have made it like this.