The Non Climate Change Bushfire Discussion

[Sergeant Hartman]

Mate looks like you are not understanding.

Apparently when the guy open up the "world weather today" website at THE PARTICULAR TIME HE CHECKED.. Penrith was the hottest place in the world where they are collecting temp data from.

Seriously marksman, mate you are fighting and arguing the person, and not actually reading what he is saying.

[bigrich]

all personal opinions and politics aside fellas , something needs to be done . things need to change . beurocracy and placard waving green radicals need to be thrown aside and common sense in managing our bushland and resources needs to be implimented . which means local input . not a public servant in a land far,far away RFS needs more resources can we all agree on this

[Bill]

thats might be the case bigrich but the rabid right whingers are not taking the blame for the current balls up, Liberal National retards reduced funding to NPWS/RFS and made hazard reduction even tougher in the short season they can perform it in.

Scomo rejected pleas for additional funding for Aerial bombers yet donate over $100k of taxpayers funds to his own personal church WTF

[Member-Deleted]

Fair feken dincom Bill how did he manage that without approval ?just asking Bill I hadn't heard that

[allthegearandnoidea]

As Donald Horne said...
Australia is a lucky country run by second rate people.
Reactive sound bites for the Channel Nine news is what passes for informed debate. Time for a national conversation on where we see Australia in 50 and 100 years. WHERE WAS THE. PLAN FOR THIS?
The PM should have worked out and communicated a projection of all possible eventualities with trigger points at each stage showing when the army would be deployed and where and when evacuations would be called etcetc
It appears that the Govt was caught unawares
Mmm what is that line they parrot on 2gb and Sky News? "Australia is a land of frequent bushfires" scomo goes to Hawaii and is shamed into apologising on TV for not realising that the fires that had started before he left had the capacity to spread and get worse.
NSW minister Elliot goes MIA but WON'T be sacked cos he's a faction boss
What was that about second rate leaders?

[Patriot]

Pre 1910 temp records are widely acknowledged by all credible sources to be unreliable. That's why BOM doesnt use em. Thought everyone knew that. BTW - Your source is Sky News Talk about drinking the media Koolaid Keep Googling champ

Do you know why those records are considered unreliable? I have heard this, but not the explanation.

[Patriot]

Peter988 if it was a dry and as hot as it is now, then no it would make no diff.

My 2c. Insurance costs should been born by thou in fire zones, you want the tree change then wear the risks and costs

We should have had a Squadron of fire bombers years ago.

RFS volunteers should be paid to compensate for their efforts

I don’t agree RFS volunteers should be paid, they are volunteers!
If they are paid, what about volunteer surf lifesavers and the thousands of others volunteers?

[bigrich]

As Donald Horne said...
Australia is a lucky country run by second rate people.
Reactive sound bites for the Channel Nine news is what passes for informed debate. Time for a national conversation on where we see Australia in 50 and 100 years. WHERE WAS THE. PLAN FOR THIS?
The PM should have worked out and communicated a projection of all possible eventualities with trigger points at each stage showing when the army would be deployed and where and when evacuations would be called etcetc
It appears that the Govt was caught unawares
Mmm what is that line they parrot on 2gb and Sky News? "Australia is a land of frequent bushfires" scomo goes to Hawaii and is shamed into apologising on TV for not realising that the fires that had staffed before he left had the capacity to spread and get worse.
NSW minister Elliot goes MIA but WON'T be sacked cos he's a faction boss
What was that about second rate leaders?

i agree 100%

[Peter988]

As did Labor leader Anastasia. Not much been said about that.

[Roo farmer]

What nobody seems to want to talk about, is that as time goes on, there are more 'lifestyle properties'. Where people like to live on their 'farm' but drive into the city each day for their job.

Nothing wrong with this at all.

But, unfortunately, a lot of them don't understand the need to keep their grass under control and have some firefighting equipment ready to go.

You can't expect to live in a place like that, and then just expect the CFS to show up on your door when there is a fire, and then blame the prime minister when you get burnt out.

Not everyone is in this category of course, but it is becoming more common than it used to be.

[Kimanjo]

A lot of the National Parks that have burned recently were once State Forest that were managed by the relevant state forestry departments. State forestry employed dedicated forestry specialists regionally that monitored forest fuel build-up and conducted controlled burns and maintained fire trails as part of their everyday jobs. Yes they were paid. Yes they were also responsible for forestry product management like logging which has had political/green focus for decades. And then the state forests were converted to National Parks, and the forestry departments were drastically reduced. So we replaced forest management specialists with environmental and ecological scientists.

I note that a lot of the posts on this topic refer to the rural fire service and NPWS as now having the responsibility for fuel reduction burns and fire trail maintenance. Am I the only one who sees the challenges (being polite) this represents. The RFS are under equipped and under staffed volunteer organisation without the specialist training across the organisation to handle the scope of the task previously managed by a dedicated and government funded organisation. The NPWS are unique.

I am not saying let's go back to logging the crap out of our forests, I am just offering that the organisation that was the state forestry department, a government organisation employing forest management specialists from each region, probably had a better ground level awareness of what was going on and what steps were needed to manage it. Yes they were supported by RFS when conducting controlled burns, and yes they consulted regularly with NPWS on environment and ecological issues.

[bigrich]

What nobody seems to want to talk about, is that as time goes on, there are more 'lifestyle properties'. Where people like to live on their 'farm' but drive into the city each day for their job.

Nothing wrong with this at all.

But, unfortunately, a lot of them don't understand the need to keep their grass under control and have some firefighting equipment ready to go.

You can't expect to live in a place like that, and then just expect the CFS to show up on your door when there is a fire, and then blame the prime minister when you get burnt out.

Not everyone is in this category of course, but it is becoming more common than it used to be.

yup, people don't seem to want to take responsability for their own actions let alone their own backyards . lots of old colonial farmhouses in bushfire country that i've seen used to be well cleared. people seem to like building houses amongst trees these days .

[pomemax]

Since Friday 8 November 2019, legal action – which ranges from cautions through to criminal charges – has been taken against 183 people – including 40 juveniles – for 205 bushfire-related offences.

Of note:

24 people have been charged over alleged deliberately-lit bushfires
53 people have had legal actions for allegedly failing to comply with a total fire ban, and
47 people have had legal actions for allegedly discarding a lighted cigarette or match on land
Seems some people didnt get the memo
As inquiries continue, police are appealing to the community to provide footage and/or images from phones, dashcam, or other devices, that show any of the fires in their infancy, even if only from a distance.

Vision of images can be provided to local police stations or uploaded through Crime Stoppers online.

Penalties relating to bushfires under the NSW Crimes Act, the Rural Fires Act, and Rural Fires Regulation include:

- Damaging property with the intention of endangering life – up to 25 years imprisonment;
- Manslaughter – up to 25 years imprisonment;
- Starting a bushfire and being reckless as to its spread – up to 21 years imprisonment;
- Lighting a fire when a total fire ban is in place – up to 12 months imprisonment and/or a $5500 fine;
- Not putting out a fire that you have lit – up to 12 months imprisonment and/or a $5500 fine;
- Failing to comply with a bush fire hazard reduction notice – up to 12 months imprisonment and/or a $5500 fine;
- Light or use a tobacco product within 15metres of any stack of grain, hay corn, straw or any standing crop, dry grass or stubble field – up to a $5500 fine.

[bigrich]

it's sad ponemax that some people are so selfishly reckless according to the list of charges you've posted. i would really hope that these a-holes get prosecuted to the full extent of the law . i heard a tale recently that some ratbag kids lit the fires that burned around tenterfeild a couple of months ago .

[Sergeant Hartman]

Agreed... no drugs no bad upbringing as an excuse. And no jail time. We need to bring back flogging.

[bigfellascott]

I heard on the radio or news today about a temp reading down Sth somewhere near the fires of 63deg I think they said FMD! amazing what a good fire can do to get the temp up LOL!

[mchughcb]

What nobody seems to want to talk about, is that as time goes on, there are more 'lifestyle properties'. Where people like to live on their 'farm' but drive into the city each day for their job.

Nothing wrong with this at all.

But, unfortunately, a lot of them don't understand the need to keep their grass under control and have some firefighting equipment ready to go.

You can't expect to live in a place like that, and then just expect the CFS to show up on your door when there is a fire, and then blame the prime minister when you get burnt out.

Not everyone is in this category of course, but it is becoming more common than it used to be.

Whoa there champ. That's like saying I bought a house on a river bank development and my house property got taken out in the next massive flood and then I blame the Prime Minister.

[Oldbloke]

thats might be the case bigrich but the rabid right whingers are not taking the blame for the current balls up, Liberal National retards reduced funding to NPWS/RFS and made hazard reduction even tougher in the short season they can perform it in.

Scomo rejected pleas for additional funding for Aerial bombers yet donate over $100k of taxpayers funds to his own personal church WTF

Another 1 hour a week christian.

[marksman]

Mark from markandsam after work have a say on the bushfires without the politics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpl0Ggjjgsc

one of the comments: "Bravo Mark someone who has the tenacity to tell the truth, politics aside what it boils down too is, if we don't manage the bush nature will"

[bigfellascott]

1926 Black Sunday 60 dead 1,000 buildings destroyed
1939 Black Friday 71 dead 5,000 buildings destroyed
1967 Black Tuesday 62 dead 1,300 buildings destroyed
1983 Ash Wednesday 75 dead 3,000 buildings destroyed
2009 Black Saturday 180 dead 3,500 buildings destroyed

Interesting that none of our previous fires have been due to the Climate Emergency.

[Bill]

None of those fires had a dry period and heat build up that contributed to our current predicament BFS so whats the point your trying to make ?.

if anything we have got better satellite technology, improved communication and lives have been saved. Also revious prime minister probably would have heeded warning given 9 months earlier. ..... which probably wouldnt have changed the current outcome as the bush is just too dry as demonstrated by areas that had hazard reduction in the previous fews years and they still blew up.

[sungazer]

None of those fires had a dry period and heat build up that contributed to our current predicament BFS so whats the point your trying to make ?.

if anything we have got better satellite technology, improved communication and lives have been saved. Also revious prime minister probably would have heeded warning given 9 months earlier. ..... which probably wouldnt have changed the current outcome as the bush is just too dry as demonstrated by areas that had hazard reduction in the previous fews years and they still blew up.

Bill Black Saturday certainly did it had been very dry / drought for a couple of years prior and in the week before the fire is was 40 or very high 30s every day.

The number of buildings I dont think is a great indicator I like to look at the number of homes It gives a better indicator of how many people were really badly effected. In Black Saturday it was 2030 homes.

[Farmerpete]

I live in fnq we are not currently effected by bushfires however we did have a firebug in my area between September through to early December last year.
For as long as I can remember when fire threatened the home farm we have always put a firebreak at the tree line and the firefighters would back burn from there.
In September last year (2019) after making the firebreak I was informed that the state fire service would not back burn.
THIS DESICION WAS MADE BY THE QLD FIRE COMMISIONER. It was explained that After a controlled burn went bad down south earlier in the year there was to be no more back burning unless damage to property or fire crews was imminent.
The guy in charge of the rural fire service waited till the state fire service guys left then said I volunteer they can't fire me and started the back burn. This saved my parents home. The local state fire service was grateful for this action.

From this experience I am under the belief that the investigation into the burn that went bad and the subsequent ass covering at top level is the number one cause of not having fuel reduction burns. In QLD at least.

[trekin]

None of those fires had a dry period and heat build up that contributed to our current predicament BFS so whats the point your trying to make ?.

if anything we have got better satellite technology, improved communication and lives have been saved. Also revious prime minister probably would have heeded warning given 9 months earlier. ..... which probably wouldnt have changed the current outcome as the bush is just too dry as demonstrated by areas that had hazard reduction in the previous fews years and they still blew up.

Showed your comment to some of my RFS mates up here and they all would like to know if you understand what the feck hazard reduction actually is, and what it entails??

[Bill]

Trekin if you dont keep up with the news down south then im not sure why your commenting, plenty of places that had hazard reduction recently and they went up.

RFS hey, that would be like my dad and uncle who have 100 years experience between em.

[Member-Deleted]

Lets get something straight here Fire Hazard Reduction does not stop country from burning unless it was done and not regrown . Fire Hazard Reduction removes large amounts build up of ground cover which leads to less hotter and less larger fires when it does burn making it easier to control the fire. Of cause burnt back areas will burn after regrowth but it won't have the devastating affect that 2-10yrs ground cover will have . i'm not sure that some people commenting on here actually know how burning off actually works . Its not the be it all end it all remedy for fires but its a must in controlling fires combined with breaks and the maintenance of them

[trekin]

Trekin if you dont keep up with the news down south then im not sure why your commenting, plenty of places that had hazard reduction recently and they went up.

RFS hey, that would be like my dad and uncle who have 100 years experience between em.

Your deflection only makes your ignorance on the subject appear even greater. One should hope that men of such experience would pass on some of their knowledge to you, but, maybe their experience tells them they can not teach someone not willing to learn.

[Bill]

nice try trekin but the only deflection I can see is coming from a QLDer who clearly knows SFA about the NSW or VIC fires. get off the internet and go and visit a region that has been burnt then get back to me

[Bill]

Trekin I grew up 400km west of Sydney, my families been farming the same valley for 150 pharkin years, 3.5 years ago we had a nor westerly breeze blow in early August that was 25 deg and 35kmh (this is highly abnormal) and I said to my dad at the time that the season was gone and most of our neighbour who had Canola in would be lucky to get seed back. Turned out true and my father managed to sell his place early Jan 2017 on the gut feeling that we were entering a long dry period. Since then it has gotten drier and drier and we have had abnormally hot season for the last 2 that havent occurred in the previous 100 years. You can lecture from 2000km but you dont seem to get the situation that we are dealing with down south, infact most city folk dont even get the devastation that has occurred. So keep grandstanding that your some kind of expert on hazard reduction or backburning or that you even know whats going on down here

[Member-Deleted]

Gee bill you sound like we QLD people know nothing about fires well mate something I must point out is Fire does not discriminate QLD,NSW, SA, VIC, NT and if you come from the land you of all people should know that all over Australia lower ground cover will and does help reduce the intensity of a fire nobody was having a go at you it is a known fact. all and I say all fire fighters around Australia know that lower ground cover is better than heavy cover ,heat, wind and drought are just extra liabilities they have to deal with when fighting fires .Yes it's true I've never fought Victorian or NSW fires but like I said your best bet of controlling them is remove what cover you can prior to the blaze then it takes local knowledge ,guts and machinery . why do you try and tear a new one for those who don't think along your lines ? it doesn't make your case any better mate you make big statements about me being only a QLD'er and knowing SFA about the southern fires well mate fires are fires and if you don't know , In all states fires are fought in similar ways depending on intensity and access . so in summing up on your statements well if your fires are so different down there, then are they wasting tax payers money by sending QLD'ers down to fight your fires and also bringing over American fire fighters to fight them also ? Your wrong about one thing anyway I've been through fires similar to yours mate and fought them day and night for weeks ,( Have you) I have felt the peoples loss when this tragic thing happens ,I've seen the dead animals and charred country that was crops ,I've seen the Anguish on peoples faces that have lost everything so mate before you write me off just as a QLD'er that knows SFA about your fires take some of your own advice and get your facts right and stop pretending that you are the only one that knows anything .And tearing Trekin a new one to me sounds like someone who has lost his lollies , mate lighten up for Christ sake