A serious question.

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A serious question.

Post by Die Judicii » 27 Mar 2020, 12:22 am

There has been talk/rumor/inuendo regarding the Covid 19 virus having been "made" in China and it either escaping unintentionally or intentionally.

Does anyone have any reference/s to whether this is true or not ??

If it be true, I think the chinese govt has a lot to answer for.
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Re: A serious question.

Post by Baronvonrort » 27 Mar 2020, 1:45 am

If you want an admission from the Chinese government there isn't one, their foreign minister has claimed it came from the US military which I don't believe

When we look how the Chinese government treated the doctor who blew the whistle on this and their early denials it hard to believe anything from that government which includes death toll and infected.https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51364382

We shipped out over 80 tons of medical equipment to China in February which might explain why our medical staff have a shortage with protective gear. https://www.smh.com.au/national/second-developer-flies-82-tonnes-of-medical-supplies-to-china-20200326-p54e8n.html

My thoughts on this are in this thread starting here check this link and the red links from article I cited. https://enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=226630#p226630

Still looking into this looks like it was created in the level 4 biosecurity lab in Wuhan then unintentionally released. There were 4 incidents with SARS somehow getting out of a lab in Beijing which caused outbreaks that were quickly contained so not unprecedented for this to happen in China.

I don't believe it was a biological weapon it would be far more deadly if it was.

I think the Chinese government has a lot to answer for not containing this which was made a lot harder with the Chinese new year happening around that time which resulted in lots of tourists being in that area then flying back to many parts of the world shortly after.

As for people whinging about threads like this if you don't like it don't click on it. It's a huge issue i think the mods should allow it on this forum.
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Re: A serious question.

Post by Baronvonrort » 27 Mar 2020, 2:12 am

For those who prefer to have someone explain the background behind this pandemic then listen to JC explain it as he rides his electric bike home.

Video footage of ride is cool the US and NZ spec electric bikes do 32kph before it cuts out in Australia our electric bikes are limited to 25 kph. From what i hear it's a simple software change to get higher speeds here by changing to NZ specs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlplnH3VYyc
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Re: A serious question.

Post by Die Judicii » 27 Mar 2020, 9:59 am

Baronvonrort wrote:
Still looking into this looks like it was created in the level 4 biosecurity lab in Wuhan then unintentionally released. There were 4 incidents with SARS somehow getting out of a lab in Beijing which caused outbreaks that were quickly contained so not unprecedented for this to happen in China.

I don't believe it was a biological weapon it would be far more deadly if it was.


Thanks for that Baron,,,,,, very informative. (I'm not a proficient surfer of the web)

I think the question that is begging to be asked is,,,,,,
If NOT a "biological weapon" ,,,, Why the hell would anyone want/need to create such a thing, and what possible use would it have ?? :unknown:

I read last night that Covid19 was found alive and well on a cruise ship 21 days after it had been evacuated, and supposedly cleaned.
I'm guessing it was grown in a lab culture that originated from a hand rail or bathroom on the ship.

Scary stuff.
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Re: A serious question.

Post by sungazer » 27 Mar 2020, 10:45 am

There are lots and lots of offical sites all around the world saying that it was not an engineered virus.

If it was an engineered virus I would be looking to the US as they have far more to gain than China. The US is in hock to the Chinese up to their eyeballs.They would dearly love to cut back on imports from China and make things in the US again. Making the Virus in the US and releasing it in China to halt manufacturing and hurt their economy is much more believable than the other way around.
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Re: A serious question.

Post by Baronvonrort » 27 Mar 2020, 11:15 am

sungazer wrote:There are lots and lots of offical sites all around the world saying that it was not an engineered virus.

If it was an engineered virus I would be looking to the US as they have far more to gain than China. The US is in hock to the Chinese up to their eyeballs.They would dearly love to cut back on imports from China and make things in the US again. Making the Virus in the US and releasing it in China to halt manufacturing and hurt their economy is much more believable than the other way around.


J.J.Couey who made that video is a scientist- https://neurobio.pitt.edu/people/j-j-jay-couey

Yes I have read a lot on this recently some say this virus evolved naturally they can't see any evidence of it being engineered.

JJ covered this we should also keep in mind China doesn't have restrictions on testing with animals that the rest of the world has.

I think this virus was accidently released which is not unprecedented I don't see any real evidence of a conspiracy. Conspiracy theorists must believe in government competence which is something I don't believe in.

This virus started in China nothing I have seen makes me believe any of their victim numbers or claims they have it under control.

The rest of the world is also in hock with China. Did you know China owns the power company called Energy Australia?
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Re: A serious question.

Post by Baronvonrort » 27 Mar 2020, 11:34 am

Die Judicii wrote:
Thanks for that Baron,,,,,, very informative. (I'm not a proficient surfer of the web)

I think the question that is begging to be asked is,,,,,,
If NOT a "biological weapon" ,,,, Why the hell would anyone want/need to create such a thing, and what possible use would it have ?? :unknown:

I read last night that Covid19 was found alive and well on a cruise ship 21 days after it had been evacuated, and supposedly cleaned.
I'm guessing it was grown in a lab culture that originated from a hand rail or bathroom on the ship.

Scary stuff.


They do a lot of research with viruses to create vaccines where there is huge money.

I saw a paper on Herpes virus being cured by Shingles which was one virus attacking another with the intention to create a vaccine. I had to sign a Non Disclosure Agreement with that about 20 years ago so nothing else to say there. :allegedly:

I have seen evidence UV kills this virus so when I come home from shopping I put groceries down strip off and leave clothes in the sun have a shower then put groceries away. Massachusetts in the US has reversed the ban on single use plastic bags because this virus will stay alive on plastic bags another thing to consider. At this stage shopping is my only risk apart from a neighbour who is a gasbag.
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Re: A serious question.

Post by Baronvonrort » 27 Mar 2020, 12:19 pm

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Re: A serious question.

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 27 Mar 2020, 12:37 pm

So how did it escape?

And second question, why have all these viruses only escaped from Chinese facilities but never from a US or European facility?
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Re: A serious question.

Post by sungazer » 27 Mar 2020, 12:49 pm

The US also has a huge Germ bank and more importantly hold the rights and vaccines to most of the worlds diseases. The US has more military bases around the world than China has on their own territory.

I think you need to have a look at who has most to gain if you are looking at conspiracies. why would China want to cripple the US economy they have a huge investment of funds they may not recover. The US nearly defaulted on their loans a few years ago. The US is the major source of the Chinese exports and again the income for China.

Looking at in from the other side the US has a lot to gain if the Chinese $ failed the loans would be easier to repay. It would be an incentive to manufacture in the US or the US companies manufacturing in China would have cheaper labor.

The US relies on having instability in many parts of the world to keep prices down on oil and manufacturing. They rely on having illegal immigrants to work in the farms in the US. This was shown on TV just this week by the English flog.
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Re: A serious question.

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 27 Mar 2020, 2:09 pm

One more point to ad there.

China actually holds the biggest deposits of US currency... the reserve bank of China or outs equivalent had propped up the greenback for a very long time.... they only do this so their exports are cheap enough for consumers in Chinas biggest market ie America
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Re: A serious question.

Post by poid » 27 Mar 2020, 2:40 pm

It could have come from the virus lab, they've had incidents in the past where something has been accidentally released. To me it's not that relevant whether that happened.

Bioweapon though? It doesn't look like one to me...a country developing a bioweapon would want it to be somewhat selective and not something that can blow back to the originating country. Plus if you are building a bioweapon you also build a treatment for it. This looks like a pretty classic pandemic, in the past without media (say last century) we may not have even recognised it as a separate disease.
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Re: A serious question.

Post by InisBineest » 27 Mar 2020, 3:52 pm

I went into reading this thread with the thought of "oh no, another lot like this..." But this is the most reasonable non-tinfoil hat conversation i have seen on the topic yet. The possibilities are interesting to consider, but I'm glad to see a lot of level heads here talking quite rationally. Many threads i see on this devolve into outright racist or patriotic rants!
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Re: A serious question.

Post by Baronvonrort » 27 Mar 2020, 4:00 pm

poid wrote:
Bioweapon though? It doesn't look like one to me...a country developing a bioweapon would want it to be somewhat selective and not something that can blow back to the originating country. Plus if you are building a bioweapon you also build a treatment for it. This looks like a pretty classic pandemic, in the past without media (say last century) we may not have even recognised it as a separate disease.


A good bioweapon has high mortality so that it burns through a population quickly and then clears quickly, leaving a clear path for troops. It has the opposite specs of what you would want in a bioweapon.
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Re: A serious question.

Post by Oldbloke » 27 Mar 2020, 4:16 pm

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Re: A serious question.

Post by Baronvonrort » 27 Mar 2020, 4:35 pm

Ziad wrote:So how did it escape?

And second question, why have all these viruses only escaped from Chinese facilities but never from a US or European facility?



As for the circumstances or mechanism for this escape we don't know, when things are unknown it acceptable to say I don't know when it's the truth.

This article claims some Chinese researchers sell animals used for testing in the wet market instead of cremating them.It mentions one being jailed for doing this how much money did he make?
https://nypost.com/2020/02/22/dont-buy-chinas-story-the-coronavirus-may-have-leaked-from-a-lab/

This article claims the first victim diagnosed had never been to the wet market which Lancet cited.It also mentions the Chinese government mandated more stringent handling of viruses and bioagents in all labs
https://asiatimes.com/2020/02/coronavirus-lab-leakage-rumors-spreading/

This article mentions 4 virology escapes with SARS virus in China along with incidents from Taiwan and Singapore, it also mentions escapes from other labs around the world.
https://thebulletin.org/2014/03/threatened-pandemics-and-laboratory-escapes-self-fulfilling-prophecies/

We have more examples of these pathogens escaping here- https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/3/20/18260669/deadly-pathogens-escape-lab-smallpox-bird-flu

We have even more examples here- https://nationalpost.com/news/a-brief-terrifying-history-of-viruses-escaping-from-labs-70s-chinese-pandemic-was-a-lab-mistake

It's not unprecedented for a virus to escape from a lab in China or the US or UK.

Those who work in these viral labs will downplay the fact these pathogens can escape or even outright deny it as the consequences of an outraged public will reduce any future taxpayer funding they get to joining others in the line at Centrelink
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Re: A serious question.

Post by Die Judicii » 27 Mar 2020, 8:27 pm

I hear today, that china is buying medical equipment/supplies in a big way here in Australia.
I cannot confirm whether this is true or not.
But,,,,, if true,,, what the hell is our govt doing/thinking ??????????

:wtf: :wtf:
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Re: A serious question.

Post by Stix » 27 Mar 2020, 8:40 pm

If you want the truth...you need to Check on bookface...!!!
The man who knows everything, doesnt really know everything...he's just stopped learning...
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Re: A serious question.

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 28 Mar 2020, 7:18 am

DJ yes it did happen but in January/February now i am thinking their factories have caught up with demand... plus all PPE prices have gone crazy.

So much so, funny that people are importing masks from China to sell here for $5-20ea. Considering masks were around $1-2ea when bought in bulk last year.
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Re: A serious question.

Post by sungazer » 28 Mar 2020, 8:05 am

The buying of stuff from Australia and sending it to china is nothing new. there are heaps of Chinese students and workers here that make a very good living doing exactly that. Powdered milk, Vitamins, skin creams all sorts of stuff.

Zierge that list of things you blame china for is equally applicable to the US they are not even a signatory to the geneva convention because they want to use torture of prisoners and they do that off shore in one of their many military bases. They exploit illegal immigrants in their own country to provide labor that extends to child labour.

If your going to list all the bad things of one country you need to balance it with what happens in other countries..
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Re: A serious question.

Post by Die Judicii » 28 Mar 2020, 9:55 am

I just tried to upload an article (link) regarding the possible very first case of Covid19
But,,,, was met with "The extension html is not allowed. The upload was rejected because the uploaded file was identified as a possible attack vector"

The article refers to a woman that was working in a "wet market" in Wuhan that sells Bats, Dogs, Cats, etc etc for food.
She was diagnosed with the typical Covid19 signs and symptoms along with other work colleagues all having the same symptoms.
She was admitted to hospital, recovered, and was discharged in late January
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Re: A serious question.

Post by trekin » 28 Mar 2020, 10:08 am

Die Judicii wrote:I just tried to upload an article (link) regarding the possible very first case of Covid19
But,,,, was met with "The extension html is not allowed. The upload was rejected because the uploaded file was identified as a possible attack vector"

The article refers to a woman that was working in a "wet market" in Wuhan that sells Bats, Dogs, Cats, etc etc for food.
She was diagnosed with the typical Covid19 signs and symptoms along with other work colleagues all having the same symptoms.
She was admitted to hospital, recovered, and was discharged in late January

Couldn't have been the first then, because there were cases going back to at least Nov 19. Just read about a 101 year old who contracted this virus and has just been released being now fully recovered.
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Re: A serious question.

Post by Baronvonrort » 28 Mar 2020, 10:12 am

Try this-

Jan. 26, 2020

Wuhan seafood market may not be source of novel virus spreading globally

As confirmed cases of a novel virus surge around the world with worrisome speed, all eyes have so far focused on a seafood market in Wuhan, China, as the origin of the outbreak. But a description of the first clinical cases published in The Lancet on Friday challenges that hypothesis.

The paper, written by a large group of Chinese researchers from several institutions, offers details about the first 41 hospitalized patients who had confirmed infections with what has been dubbed 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV).

In the earliest case, the patient became ill on 1 December 2019 and had no reported link to the seafood market, the authors report. “No epidemiological link was found between the first patient and later cases,” they state. Their data also show that, in total, 13 of the 41 cases had no link to the marketplace. “That’s a big number, 13, with no link,” says Daniel Lucey, an infectious disease specialist at Georgetown University.

Lucey says if the new data are accurate, the first human infections must have occurred in November 2019—if not earlier—because there is an incubation time between infection and symptoms surfacing. If so, the virus possibly spread silently between people in Wuhan—and perhaps elsewhere—before the cluster of cases from the city’s now-infamous Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market was discovered in late December.

“The virus came into that marketplace before it came out of that marketplace,” Lucey asserts.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally#
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Re: A serious question.

Post by TassieTiger » 28 Mar 2020, 12:24 pm

“The paper, written by a large group of Chinese researchers...” ie the Chinese govt...
Can’t and won’t trust them...
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Re: A serious question.

Post by Baronvonrort » 28 Mar 2020, 1:48 pm

Current death rate from the kung flu is 17%

The number of infected people is irrelevant in calculating the death rate we don't know what their outcome will be. This number can only be calculated from closed cases where there has been an outcome which means they recovered or they died.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
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Re: A serious question.

Post by TassieTiger » 28 Mar 2020, 1:56 pm

The death rate will be very questionable (thankfully), due to the large numbers that are infected but not recorded which could be many many thousands - this will be especially so, where our Au numbers are relatively low in statistical comparison.

The who is still tracking towards an approx 3% fatality rate - which is still extremely high - and I guess could obviously change at any time.

These stats are all interesting but do hard to quantify until after the fact - which will be a loooong time coming...
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Re: A serious question.

Post by Baronvonrort » 28 Mar 2020, 2:00 pm

TassieTiger wrote:“The paper, written by a large group of Chinese researchers...” ie the Chinese govt...
Can’t and won’t trust them...


I was reading these research papers earlier today which were translated to English by a Chinese lady in New York. They confirm the first documented victim of the Kung Flu had no contact with this wet market in Wuhan.

These papers have been saved so Chinese government cannot delete them from the internet.

The Lancet is considered reliable they published this as well my link is from 26th January.

Chinese researchers are not to be confused with government who censor what they don't like. The doctor who blew the whistle on this shows the lengths the communist regime will go to this guy is definitely one of the good guys- https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51364382
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Re: A serious question.

Post by Baronvonrort » 28 Mar 2020, 2:13 pm

TassieTiger wrote:The death rate will be very questionable (thankfully), due to the large numbers that are infected but not recorded which could be many many thousands - this will be especially so, where our Au numbers are relatively low in statistical comparison.

The who is still tracking towards an approx 3% fatality rate - which is still extremely high - and I guess could obviously change at any time.

These stats are all interesting but do hard to quantify until after the fact - which will be a loooong time coming...


There aren't many who understand how this is calculated. The number of people who haven't been tested who may have it and those who are infected is irrelevant because we don't know if they will recover or die.Until we have an outcome for these people we don't know whether they're put in the recovered or died category.

This number can only be calculated from known cases where the outcome is known which means they recovered from this virus or died. This is currently at 17% die with 83% of them recovering.

I don't consider WHO to be an authority on this they're as useless as the UN.
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Re: A serious question.

Post by TassieTiger » 28 Mar 2020, 2:21 pm

One of the worry’s from what you posted above (link) - dr was tested several times and it came back negative...bloody hell. That dr knew he had it...but testing was showing negative? That’s a worry.

I’m sure there are heroes and wonderful ground based Chinese ppl in wuhan - but researchers, drs, etc if the govt comes to you and says, it would be a favourable outcome for you and your family, if your research finds something else than a patient one... it’s China, their govt calls the shots...unless I’m mislead. Which is certainly possible / but from I’ve seen, read, hear...the govt of China portrays an image not always aligned with fact.
Case in point - Do we believe that wuhan covid numbers are accurate? I don’t know the answer, I’d assume no but maybe they do have it controlled - I fail to understand how, given their huge numbers but again - China did go all in, so...?
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Re: A serious question.

Post by Sergeant Hartman » 28 Mar 2020, 3:52 pm

Baron, mate what you are proposing is a very deeply flawed way to think.

Firstly that website is not a legitimate source, ie you or i can add in information... which can cause cases to be missed to doubled up.

So if you use your logic a person who wasn't tested as there wernt any tests available at that time due to shortages but had the symptoms doesn't have the crona virus (Even though they probably do)

To bring the whole circus to context, total deaths from cronavirus all over the world is less than 25,000 in 3 months. In Australia we have 3,500 cases and 14 deaths.

Total deaths from FLU last year in USA alone were 80,000+.

Last season 217,000 Australia were confirmed with flu, but probably another 100+k did have flu, but the doctor decided the patent didn't need a test for whatever reason. We had nearly 500 deaths.

Its sure brings things into context. Maybe this cronavirus is govt way to control our movements and control us
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