Having a Collectors licence and a Weapons Licence together

[30roundsisstandard]

Gday Guys

I recently began the lengthy task of waiting for my paper work to clear for my Cat A and B Weapons licence. I originally wanted to also attain category C as I live and work on the family farm however, I sadly had to put it aside as due to circumstances I may not be working on the farm next year.

Long story short I would still like to have my category C as I find semi auto weapons fun and highly appealing and I know it is possible to collect category C arms as temporarily inoperable on a collectors licences. I also have my current safety course certificate with category A B and C on it.

The main question is: Is it possible to have a regular weapons licence and a collectors licence at the same time and with different categories in each. For example having A and B in a weapons licence and A B and C on a collectors licence.

If I had to hesitate a guess if this was possible I would need separate safes however that would not be a problem.

last of all is it actually possible to go out and shoot collectible weapons at events. I have been told that it is possible to do this at certain events however the details are few and far between on where these events are around Queensland.

Cheers.

[Kelsey Cooter]

Hey man have a look on youtube, I think ozzie reviews does a good job explaining this.

[Kelsey Cooter]

https://youtu.be/g8SNosXHZrg

[Kelsey Cooter]

Hopefully that link works. Well I'm pretty sure he gives a good explanation, I watched it years ago. Hopefully it still applies

[30roundsisstandard]

Thanks for that url Kelsey; I have watched that video before (I frequently watch ozzies' videos) and I did watch it again in case there were some answers in there however, it didn't really answer my question after all I am trying to dig into that deeper information.

I'm really trying to find the obscure information so I don't break the law by accident. On one hand its possible to have both A weapons licence and a concealed weapons licence (handguns) and yet on the other hand, If I think about the idea in question from the point of view of a typical status quo Australian politician the idea of a civilian being able to have a regular firearms licence and a collectors licence together would be problematic as more restrictive items "could" be obtained through a collectors licence.

But all the same thank you for the reply.

[Kelsey Cooter]

Yes you definitely can have both a weapons licence and a collector's licence. I've spoken too alot of collectors who have both so they can have dozens of 303's or what ever they collect.

My suggestion would be too still apply for your occupational licence and have proof that although you aren't an employee of the farm, you are the primary pest controller and require cat C for ......
Being family changes things a bit I believe.

Until 2018 I had an occupational cat H for my grandmothers cattle property, and I was never an employee of hers. Just had letters from myself and her stating why I needed it.

For primary production or occupational C,D & H I believe how thoroughly you explain your situation and why you need that category is really important. Don't be half arsed when writing the supporting letters.

Or you could get your old man (or who ever owns the family farm) to get his cat C, so you can shoot them with him on the farm.

[30roundsisstandard]

Thanks Kelsey. That was some pretty solid information. I didn't know that being family could possibly change things and I didn't know that if the land owner has cat C that I would be able to shoot those weapons on a cat A and B (if I understood what you said correctly. Correct me if i'm wrong).

I was just about ready to go down a similar road that you suggested from the start with a 6 page essay at my disposal however, I got stumped at the part about being a "paid" employee and even though as of next year I will be frequently attending the property and will even do work I wont be on the books as a paid employee. I wasn't sure how to get around the paid part thus I did not want to tread in that grey area as I didn't know enough nor did I want to end up with 2 years in Jail.

If I had to guess the next step for me would be to fill out a form 4B to make my licence Occupational and not recreational and resubmit my form 1 Annex as a rural employee? Any advice to get around the paid employee part would be greatly appreciated. If i had to guess adding some additional words in that essay about being family and pest control being my duty to the family or something along those lines?

Please let me know if i'm on the right track.

[trekin]

Section 54 of the Weapons Act;
54 Possession or use of weapon by unlicensed person in
primary production sometimes allowed
(1) In this section—
primary producer means a person who—
(a) has a licence; and
(b) usually carries out primary production on land (the
primary producer’s land), even if only as an agent or
employee of another person.
weapon means a weapon that a primary producer possesses
under the authority of a licence.
(2) A person who is an agent, employee or member of the
immediate family of the primary producer may possess or use
a weapon on the primary producer’s land, even if the person
does not hold a licence for that category of weapon, if the
person—
(a) assists the primary producer with primary production on
the land; and
(b) is eligible to obtain a licence to possess a weapon; and
(c) only uses the weapon with the express consent of the
primary producer; and
(d) only uses the weapon in connection with carrying out
primary production on the land.
Note sub section (1) (b).
Also, any firearm regristered to the primary producer is actually registered to the property, and must be stored and only used at that property.

[CrackThump]

"Concealed weapons license".?? Whats that all about then.? Youre not talking about concealled carry are you.?

[trekin]

"Concealed weapons license".?? Whats that all about then.? Youre not talking about concealled carry are you.?

In QLD, a licence for a Cat H is actually called a "concealed weapons" licence.

[30roundsisstandard]

Section 54 of the Weapons Act;
54 Possession or use of weapon by unlicensed person in
primary production sometimes allowed
(1) In this section—
primary producer means a person who—
(a) has a licence; and
(b) usually carries out primary production on land (the
primary producer’s land), even if only as an agent or
employee of another person.
weapon means a weapon that a primary producer possesses
under the authority of a licence.
(2) A person who is an agent, employee or member of the
immediate family of the primary producer may possess or use
a weapon on the primary producer’s land, even if the person
does not hold a licence for that category of weapon, if the
person—
(a) assists the primary producer with primary production on
the land; and
(b) is eligible to obtain a licence to possess a weapon; and
(c) only uses the weapon with the express consent of the
primary producer; and
(d) only uses the weapon in connection with carrying out
primary production on the land. Note sub section (1) (b).
Also, any firearm regristered to the primary producer is actually registered to the property, and must be stored and only used at that property.

Thanks trekin that is some really solid info there Ill have to give that weapons act a proper read so I can figure out all the ins and outs of the system. I probably should have just done that from the start. I honestly didn't think I would have found the answers to such obscure questions within the actual weapons act. Cheers for that.

[trekin]

"Concealed weapons license".?? Whats that all about then.? Youre not talking about concealled carry are you.?

In QLD, a licence for a Cat H is actually called a "concealed weapons" licence.

Edit; Actually called a "concealable firearms" licence.

[Kelsey Cooter]

I don't know the rules around being family and the occupational licence. All I know is for me personally, I was able to get my cat H occupational licence for my grandmothers station even though I've never been an employee.

My licence conditions were OC4 before I got my cat C and is now PP1so I could be wrong, but I don't think you'll need to do a form 4B, as you will automatically be applying to change to OC4 by applying for your Cat C.

Something I didn't realise until I had my Category C is that with an OC4 occupational licence you can't use a B709 import permit. There might a way to buy new (I don't remember, but might of been by writing to the Governor General or something) but you are more or less stuck in the second hard market, which can be expensive because all the collectors are in the same boat

[30roundsisstandard]

I don't know the rules around being family and the occupational licence. All I know is for me personally, I was able to get my cat H occupational licence for my grandmothers station even though I've never been an employee.

My licence conditions were OC4 before I got my cat C and is now PP1so I could be wrong, but I don't think you'll need to do a form 4B, as you will automatically be applying to change to OC4 by applying for your Cat C.

Something I didn't realise until I had my Category C is that with an OC4 occupational licence you can't use a B709 import permit. There might a way to buy new (I don't remember, but might of been by writing to the Governor General or something) but you are more or less stuck in the second hard market, which can be expensive because all the collectors are in the same boat

I can confirm that buying new can be done with an Attorney General Permit: https://firearms.homeaffairs.gov.au/App ... nForm.aspx
As far as I know this is the route that must be taken if you cant fill out a B709 or if you are importing new Category D weapons. The difference between the two is that the AG Permit takes longer and a few more phone calls/ emails to make happen.

[bladeracer]

Thanks Kelsey. That was some pretty solid information. I didn't know that being family could possibly change things and I didn't know that if the land owner has cat C that I would be able to shoot those weapons on a cat A and B (if I understood what you said correctly. Correct me if i'm wrong).

I was just about ready to go down a similar road that you suggested from the start with a 6 page essay at my disposal however, I got stumped at the part about being a "paid" employee and even though as of next year I will be frequently attending the property and will even do work I wont be on the books as a paid employee. I wasn't sure how to get around the paid part thus I did not want to tread in that grey area as I didn't know enough nor did I want to end up with 2 years in Jail.

If I had to guess the next step for me would be to fill out a form 4B to make my licence Occupational and not recreational and resubmit my form 1 Annex as a rural employee? Any advice to get around the paid employee part would be greatly appreciated. If i had to guess adding some additional words in that essay about being family and pest control being my duty to the family or something along those lines?

Please let me know if i'm on the right track.

It wouldn't hurt to throw a few hundred bucks to a firearms lawyer to draft the application for you. The three that spring immediately to mind:
Simon Munslow
Ross Williamson
Karrie Louden

[30roundsisstandard]

Thanks Kelsey. That was some pretty solid information. I didn't know that being family could possibly change things and I didn't know that if the land owner has cat C that I would be able to shoot those weapons on a cat A and B (if I understood what you said correctly. Correct me if i'm wrong).

I was just about ready to go down a similar road that you suggested from the start with a 6 page essay at my disposal however, I got stumped at the part about being a "paid" employee and even though as of next year I will be frequently attending the property and will even do work I wont be on the books as a paid employee. I wasn't sure how to get around the paid part thus I did not want to tread in that grey area as I didn't know enough nor did I want to end up with 2 years in Jail.

If I had to guess the next step for me would be to fill out a form 4B to make my licence Occupational and not recreational and resubmit my form 1 Annex as a rural employee? Any advice to get around the paid employee part would be greatly appreciated. If i had to guess adding some additional words in that essay about being family and pest control being my duty to the family or something along those lines?

Please let me know if i'm on the right track.

It wouldn't hurt to throw a few hundred bucks to a firearms lawyer to draft the application for you. The three that spring immediately to mind:
Simon Munslow
Ross Williamson
Karrie Louden

Thanks bladeracer that is probably much smarter than writing all the paperwork myself.

[Chinballs]

Hey mate I have:

Firearms License A & B
Concelable Firearms License H
Collector License A, B, C, D, M, R & H (pre '47)

No problem storing all your firearms in the same safe as long as it meets the requirements for the highest category you posses ie Cat D and H need the safe to be bolted to the structure. Anybody else with access to the safe must be licensed for the same categories so if your Mrs only has A and B she can't have acces to the aafe with Cat H, C or D etc.

I currently only have pre 47 on my Collector Cat H but put the paperwork in about six months ago to upgrade to post 47. If you have any specific questions about getting licensed etc I'm glad to help.

last of all is it actually possible to go out and shoot collectible weapons at events. I have been told that it is possible to do this at certain events however the details are few and far between on where these events are around Queensland.

Cheers.

Yes, it is possible but only at approved events. The collector organisation gets a permit to run the shoot but events are few and far between. I wouldn't count on shooting your Collector stuff very often and possibly not at all depending where you live and how often your collector club runs events.

I can confirm that buying new can be done with an Attorney General Permit: https://firearms.homeaffairs.gov.au/App ... nForm.aspx
As far as I know this is the route that must be taken if you cant fill out a B709 or if you are importing new Category D weapons. The difference between the two is that the AG Permit takes longer and a few more phone calls/ emails to make happen.

AG permission is more than just a few phone calls/emails to make happen. You need quite a lot of support and it is a slow process. People either don't qualify or give up and that's why beat up pieces of crap Cat C and D stuff sell for a small fortune on the second hand market.

[Farmerpete]

Before you rely on the exemption be sure that your dad is in possession of a pp licence wlq love to hand out occupational licence instead so rhe exemption doesn't apply only found out i had oc4 not pp when the gun shop closures happened, double check his licence.

[Kelsey Cooter]

AG permission is more than just a few phone calls/emails to make happen. You need quite a lot of support and it is a slow process. People either don't qualify or give up and that's why beat up pieces of crap Cat C and D stuff sell for a small fortune on the second hand market.

I never looked into it very far but I was told I wouldn't qualify because of being OC4. So I gave up before I started trying down that road. I bought a SKB 12GA for $300 a couple of years ago and it's awesome, has never let me down. But the old 10/22 I bought is completely worn out. I really need to replace it

[30roundsisstandard]

Hey guys Chinballs pretty much hit the nail on the head there so we can call this one solved. Other than that everyone provided a lot of useful information so cheers again to everyone who commented. I think what I might do is simply wait for my A and B to clear and move from there. As situation dictates my old man actually does not have cat C or D as he got conned out of semis in 96 and put into A and B. Atm we are trying to set my Brother up with a primary producer licence so I think i'm gonna wait and see how that turns out. We did intentionally set him up as a pp as he will be taking over the farm in the near future. I am keen to stay determined and not give up the dream so ill be patient and see how the story unfolds. Cheers guys Stay Frosty.