Applying for QLD collectors licence

[Kelsey Cooter]

Have any of you blokes recently applied for your collectors licence?

I currently have 46 firearms and a few of my mates think I should organise a collector's licence, problem is they are all blokes who have had their collectors licences since the 90's and haven't been able to tell me a real lot about applying.

I currently have A B,C and H licences, will I need to do more safety courses for getting all the categories of collectors licence?

Do I need to join a club separate to my current pistol club? Looks like I need to be part of a historical society?

Is applying for a pta on the collectors licence the same as pta's on my current licences?

Who can I actually talk to about qld collectors licences to get more formal information? (As in a club or something I can contact?)

[PastaofMuppets]

I currently have A B,C and H licences, will I need to do more safety courses for getting all the categories of collectors licence?

I think you may need to do WSCQPS007 - Lawful and responsible use of miscellaneous weapons. Not 100% sure on this one.

Do I need to join a club separate to my current pistol club? Looks like I need to be part of a historical society?

Section 138(1) of the Weapons Act says-
'It is a condition of a collector’s licence (weapons) that the licensee must not possess temporarily inoperable category H weapons unless the licensee is a member of an approved historical society.'

Is applying for a pta on the collectors licence the same as pta's on my current licences?

No. You need to demonstrate that the gun itself is collectible.

Section 77-
'collectable firearm means a firearm that is of obvious and significant commemorative, historic, thematic or investment value'

Who can I actually talk to about qld collectors licences to get more formal information? (As in a club or something I can contact?)

[/quote]

Historical societies sounds like the ticket.

~PoM~

[Chinballs]

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[Chinballs]

Have any of you blokes recently applied for your collectors licence?

I currently have 46 firearms and a few of my mates think I should organise a collector's licence, problem is they are all blokes who have had their collectors licences since the 90's and haven't been able to tell me a real lot about applying.

I currently have A B,C and H licences, will I need to do more safety courses for getting all the categories of collectors licence?

Do I need to join a club separate to my current pistol club? Looks like I need to be part of a historical society?

Is applying for a pta on the collectors licence the same as pta's on my current licences?

Who can I actually talk to about qld collectors licences to get more formal information? (As in a club or something I can contact?)

I got my Collector license a few years ago, got my post '47 handgun endorsement a few months ago and picked up my first post '47 handgun this week so I'll answer a few questions.

First though, why do you actually want a collector license? You haven't really said what you want to collect, just that you have a heap of guns already. If you put a gun on your collector license you can only shoot it at an approved collector shoot. You can't just grab a rifle on your collector license and shoot it like a normal A/B license.

1. You only need to do a safety course for categories you are not already licensed for. I didn't apply for D, M or R but they gave them to me anyway haha.

2 Join an approved historical society. I just went with Shooters Union's collector section as my normal club isn't an approved historical society. A few others are the QLD Collectors Guild, QLD Military Historical Society or SSAA.

3. PTAs are similar to normal Cat H PTAs. I have only had Cat H collector PTAs so can't speak for Cat A, B, C, D, M, or R PTAs. For pre '47 handguns you need a QP517 from your approved historical society to verify you're a financial member and proof of the collectable value of the firearm. For post '47 handguns you need a letter confirming the represntative of the approved historical society thinks the firearm fits your collection plus proof of its collector value.

4. You'd think an approved historical society was the best place to go for info but I found most of them beyond useless. I think they just get sick of peanuts looking to buy something like a Glock 26 instead of genuine enquiries lol. The Reddit post below is quite helpful or you can ask me anything.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ausguns/commen ... o/gh51ahh/

[LawrenceA]

You need to join the Arms Collectors Guild of Queensland.
Don't bother emailing you need to ring.
Then when you apply you get a form from them saying you are a financial member and then you wait. a lot.
But that is the short answer

[Kelsey Cooter]

Thanks for the info blokes!

Yeah I should of said what I collect,
I'm into carbines. Mainly Winchester carbines, then american carbines (colt, remington, Springfield etc) then just military and civilian carbines in general.

So the collectors licence is mainly for A&B category rifles I don't intend to shoot, so I don't have trouble with having to many of the same caliber, but if I'm going have a collectors licence I'd like a few of the semi autos with history that you see around, especially a 30m1.

Semi autos don't do anything for me, mine are purely work guns, so not shooting the cat D's wouldn't bother me.

With our normal AB licence, have you blokes heard of anyone being knocked back on a pta because they had so many of that caliber already? I've heard a local bloke being knocked back on his 11th pta for 303brit, I'm not sure if that's just a yarn though

[LawrenceA]

Semi auto centrefire rifles are a different kettle of fish.
You need to jump through a bunch of hoops or have them rendered permanently inoperable.
I cannot remember the hoops but personally decided it was not worth the trouble. Handguns were heaps easier.
So if you limit yourself to NOT semi autos then not too hard. Just need patience.
Post 47 handguns are a little more difficult but lets face it plastic guns are not interesting. Lugers, Colts and Brownings are.
And S&W's
And anything Blackpowder.
Especially weird things like pepperboxes.
And early pumps and levers especially remingtons and Marlins
And.. AAnd...
Can go on forever

[Kelsey Cooter]

Thanks Lawrence good to know.
Yes I'm a big fan of black powder cartridges.
Yeah mate the list of what I want gets bigger and bigger. Hence why I'm trying hard to stick with carbines, but occasionally I slip and buy a cool rifle.

I have single action revolvers for competing in western action competition, but haven't really gotten into revolvers and pistols. In saying that I'd love a few original colts. 1851 navy, 1873 and 1911's I am a big fan of

[PastaofMuppets]

I've heard a local bloke being knocked back on his 11th pta for 303brit, I'm not sure if that's just a yarn though

For Category B, you need a 'genuine need' for each firearm. Getting an 11th 303brit isn't too hard. He probably didn't take the hint that "I want it" or "I need it for parts" isn't going to cut it.

Just explain why it's different to the others and why it will be used in a different set up and you're fine.

~PoM~

[Kelsey Cooter]

I've heard a local bloke being knocked back on his 11th pta for 303brit, I'm not sure if that's just a yarn though

For Category B, you need a 'genuine need' for each firearm. Getting an 11th 303brit isn't too hard. He probably didn't take the hint that "I want it" or "I need it for parts" isn't going to cut it.

Just explain why it's different to the others and why it will be used in a different set up and you're fine.

~PoM~

Thanks for that, so is there any real need for a collectors licence while I'm wanting to A&B firearms? Or is it mainly for when a person gets into H,C,D,M collecting?

[dpskipper]

Thanks for that, so is there any real need for a collectors licence while I'm wanting to A&B firearms? Or is it mainly for when a person gets into H,C,D,M collecting?

technically you posses each firearm based on the genuine need. If you are "collecting" A/B firearms on a sports shooting/hunting licence thats going against your genuine need.

[Kelsey Cooter]

Thanks for that, so is there any real need for a collectors licence while I'm wanting to A&B firearms? Or is it mainly for when a person gets into H,C,D,M collecting?

technically you posses each firearm based on the genuine need. If you are "collecting" A/B firearms on a sports shooting/hunting licence thats going against your genuine need.

Yes that's true I didn't think about that. Although at the moment I don't buy anything I can't shoot.

[PastaofMuppets]

Thanks for that, so is there any real need for a collectors licence while I'm wanting to A&B firearms? Or is it mainly for when a person gets into H,C,D,M collecting?

technically you posses each firearm based on the genuine need. If you are "collecting" A/B firearms on a sports shooting/hunting licence thats going against your genuine need.

dpskipper is right, but it goes further than just 'going against your genuine reason'.

Section 4 of the Weapons Regulation 2016 (Qld) says:

"...the possession or use of a weapon, or category of weapon, under a licence of a particular class is unlawful to the extent a licence of another class is needed to authorise the possession or use."

On a more practical note, if the law ever changes then you might get caught out. Quite a few people got caught out in the early 2000s after the handgun buyback which followed the Monash University shooting when they tightened the laws around what handguns you could compete with.

People who then tried to move their guns over to a collectors licence but found they were refused as it was obvious that up until the law changed they weren't "collecting" those guns, but competing with them.

~PoM~

[rc42]

Section 4 of the Weapons Regulation 2016 (Qld) says:

"...the possession or use of a weapon, or category of weapon, under a licence of a particular class is unlawful to the extent a licence of another class is needed to authorise the possession or use."

I'm not sure this would apply to collecting unless a firearm held under a collectors license was taken out and used as it it were under a normal A/B/H license.
The example I've seen for this section is where a security guard uses a handgun for their work which is actually held under a sports and target shooting license.

It may also apply to a licensed pistol shooter borrowing a large bore (>.38) pistol at a range and using it when their license does not have the appropriate endorsement for it's use and they have not completed the necessary unauthorised person forms.

[PastaofMuppets]

Section 4 of the Weapons Regulation 2016 (Qld) says:

"...the possession or use of a weapon, or category of weapon, under a licence of a particular class is unlawful to the extent a licence of another class is needed to authorise the possession or use."

I'm not sure this would apply to collecting unless a firearm held under a collectors license was taken out and used as it it were under a normal A/B/H license.
The example I've seen for this section is where a security guard uses a handgun for their work which is actually held under a sports and target shooting license.

It may also apply to a licensed pistol shooter borrowing a large bore (>.38) pistol at a range and using it when their license does not have the appropriate endorsement for it's use and they have not completed the necessary unauthorised person forms.

We're kind of splitting hairs a bit here, but section 4 is about 'holding' under the wrong licence. The section goes on to provide examples:

"Example—

X holds a firearms licence that on its face authorises X to possess and use any category A or B firearm.
However, X must not possess or use a category A or B weapon—
(a) as part of a collection of weapons (a collector’s licence (heirloom) or collector’s licence (weapons) is needed); or
(b) in performing duties as a security guard (a security licence (guard) is needed); or
(c) as a security organisation (a security licence (organisation) is needed); or
(d) to store, manufacture, modify or repair the weapon in the course of the licensee’s business of storing, manufacturing, modifying or repairing weapons (an armourers licence is needed); or
(e) for the purpose of dealing in weapons (a dealer’s licence is needed); or
(f) for the purpose of supplying the weapon, without a change in its ownership, on a temporary basis for use in a theatrical, film or television production (a theatrical ordnance supplier’s licence is needed); or
(g) to provide an approved training course (a firearms licence (instructor) is needed)."

The security guard example you've used is an outright unlawful possession under section 50 of the Act, because section 49A hasn't given the security guard authority to use that gun that way.

The restriction to .38 calibres or lower without the codes isn't about the "class" (but rather codes) of licence (which section 4 of the reg deals with) but rather a restriction under s132 of the Act.

But as I said, we end up at the same conclusion anyway .

~PoM~

[Kelsey Cooter]

Looking at the requirements for A,B & C weapons, it says-
Category A, B or C weapons that are collectable firearms manufactured on or after 1 January 1901, only if the weapons are made temporarily inoperable.

What does this mean? Does each rifle need a trigger lock? Is this why I often see people ziptie their levers closed on lever actions?

[dpskipper]

Does each rifle need a trigger lock?

That would suffice the requirements for temporary disablement.

[Kelsey Cooter]

I just found it,

Whenever a firearm is not being used it must be made temporarily inoperable, meaning that it is in a state such that a projectile cannot be fired. 

This generally entails making the firing mechanism inoperable, e.g. removing the bolt. 

When the firearm is required for use, the action may be restored which renders the firearm operable.

A firearm is made temporarily inoperable when:

for a firearm designed to allow its bolt, breech block, firing pin or other integral part of the firing mechanism to be removed – if the part is removed and securely stored separately from the firearm, orfor another firearm – if the firearm’s trigger is secured by a trigger lock and the lock’s key is securely stored separately from the firearm.

[Kelsey Cooter]

Looking at the way that is written, is that saying if the bolt can be removed it must be removed?
I've always thought it wasn't necessary to remove and store seperately as long as the action is left open

[Chinballs]

Looking at the way that is written, is that saying if the bolt can be removed it must be removed?
I've always thought it wasn't necessary to remove and store seperately as long as the action is left open

This is only a requirement for Collector firearms storage. For normal A & B license holders action open is perfectly fine.

[bigrich]

if i'm reading all this correctly a early 1900's marlin/winchester/ lever rifle could be held on a collectors licsence so long as you could explain why it's collectable ?

just the fact that said firearm is almost 120 years old wouldn't cut it or cause it's originally a 32-20/44-40 black powder cartridge from the wild west as a reason

any advice would be appreciated

[PastaofMuppets]

Looking at the way that is written, is that saying if the bolt can be removed it must be removed?
I've always thought it wasn't necessary to remove and store seperately as long as the action is left open

This is only a requirement for Collector firearms storage. For normal A & B license holders action open is perfectly fine.

Can we please stop spreading this myth?

If the bolt can be removed - it must be removed.

Yes, the law says "with the bolt removed or the action broken". If laws were written in English, then open would be enough. But unfortunately that's not the way the cookie crumbles.

Removing a bolt obviously breaks the action. Therefore, saying "with the bolt removed" would be redundant if that wasn't a "this first or otherwise" provision.

People get charged with this. Ask around

As the old lawyer's quip goes...

I'm the Parliamentary Draftsman,
I compose the country's laws,
And of half the litigation
I'm undoubtedly the cause.

[PastaofMuppets]

if i'm reading all this correctly a early 1900's marlin/winchester/ lever rifle could be held on a collectors licsence so long as you could explain why it's collectable ?

just the fact that said firearm is almost 120 years old wouldn't cut it or cause it's originally a 32-20/44-40 black powder cartridge from the wild west as a reason

any advice would be appreciated

Under the Qld Act...

collectable firearm means a firearm that is of obvious and significant commemorative, historic, thematic or investment value.

"Rifle X which I wish to acquire serves as a prime example of the thematic development of classic series of frontier lever action rifles through the early 1900s within the Western States of America."

Sounds good to me.

PoM

[Kelsey Cooter]

if i'm reading all this correctly a early 1900's marlin/winchester/ lever rifle could be held on a collectors licsence so long as you could explain why it's collectable ?

just the fact that said firearm is almost 120 years old wouldn't cut it or cause it's originally a 32-20/44-40 black powder cartridge from the wild west as a reason

any advice would be appreciated

Under the Qld Act...

collectable firearm means a firearm that is of obvious and significant commemorative, historic, thematic or investment value.

"Rifle X which I wish to acquire serves as a prime example of the thematic development of classic series of frontier lever action rifles through the early 1900s within the Western States of America."

Sounds good to me.

PoM

Thanks for that, I feel like that is going to become a template for every pta I do once I have my collectors licence

[Kelsey Cooter]

Sorry if I'm repeating myself here but I'm reading and rereading the legislation trying to understand the collectors licence.

Have I got this right?
I already have my primary producers ABC licence.
So I don't need to do the safety courses again.
I don't need to be a member of an organization because I'm not going for H

So am I ready to apply for my ABCD collectors licence or do I need to do anything else before applying ?

[bigrich]

if i'm reading all this correctly a early 1900's marlin/winchester/ lever rifle could be held on a collectors licsence so long as you could explain why it's collectable ?

just the fact that said firearm is almost 120 years old wouldn't cut it or cause it's originally a 32-20/44-40 black powder cartridge from the wild west as a reason

any advice would be appreciated

Under the Qld Act...

collectable firearm means a firearm that is of obvious and significant commemorative, historic, thematic or investment value.

"Rifle X which I wish to acquire serves as a prime example of the thematic development of classic series of frontier lever action rifles through the early 1900s within the Western States of America."

Sounds good to me.

PoM

Yeah, thanks very much for your reply. I’m looking at collecting objects from this era. I recently saw some US and confederate states sabres at a arms fair, and am interested in cap and ball and colt single action pistol. Old western movies on the telly have a lot to answer for. That and Clint Eastwood using walker colt’s