Copper fouling - how bad ?

[marksman]

Tassie the only thing that will fix that is lapping after you get the copper out
fire lapping with Tubbs final finish IMHO

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tool ... 12715.aspx

also when using sweets use a bronze or nylon brush, either is as good or bad as the other, no big deal, use fast backward and forward strokes till it foams up white froth then leave it as long as you want without letting it dry off, its when it drys off it can cause damage, just keep going back after an hour and keep doing the same without patching it out, sweets has a chemical reaction with copper and works better used
patch it out after a few times and it should be clean then oil the bore and fire lap

l honestly dont believe you will do any harm but it should clean easier

[Member-Deleted]

G'day Tas,
reading about your copper troubles here got me looking at my CZ. The last range trip 2 weeks ago saw groups go to crap. Looking down the muzzle, I had noticeable copper streaks like yours.

It has fired about 200 rounds total, and like you, I've used Sweets leaving it from anywhere from 15 minutes to 1 hour, and typically got one or two blue patches and then clean ones. I thought I was on top of things.

I bought some Boretech Cu+2 copper remover on Friday on the recommendation of some of the fellas on this site.

2 wet patches then a wet nylon brush, 10-15 vigorous strokes, wait a few minutes, 2 more wet patches then patched out with some Hoppes #9.

Could not believe the junk that came out, on the aluminium jag. It looks clean now. One day soon hopefully, I'll get to see if the accuracy has returned

[TassieTiger]

Bloody hell bbss...that looks familiar and I’ve got chills...AGAIN.
I wouldn’t mind to much if it was settling down - but my last outing I only shot 5 quick ones thru, solely for the purpose of checking copper and it was horrendous.

In another note - here’s a conversation between a friend and me via text Re bore cam photos,

I sent the photos to him.
Him - what the hell is that?
Me - that’s the bore of the 06.
What the hell ? Didn’t you clean that ?
Yeah - the main photos are from half way down the barrel?
Holy crapolo - did you get that from your new scope?
Yeah, cool huh?
Do not ever bring that fuken thing near any of my rifles, for fugs sake, I don’t want to Bloody know!
Lolz.

[marksman]

my teslong borescope was delivered today Tassie so l thought l'd put up a photo to show what a good but used bore looks like

this is my 22-250 ruger factory barrel with over 3000 shots



its a very good barrel, as you can see no ring marks against the way the bullet travels
l can shoot this rifle 200-300 shots before it needs a clean
thanks for the heads up sungazer an awesome bit of kit, very easy to use

[marksman]

l thought l should put up a photo of the bore l shot the Tubbs final finish through
this is an after final finish photo

[TassieTiger]

Bloody hell MM - my kitchen sink isn’t that clean. That’s quite incredible.

[marksman]

that's just how they are Tassie
l have never put a bore scope down them before
they both clean very easily but the second one l shot the tubbs through had got pretty bad before l shot the Tubbs through it
usually taking a few days to clean with scrubbing and soaking after 3-5 shots, it lost precision after that so l could not do any testing
the barrel IMO was knackered and needed replacing before trying the Tubbs

what you need to do is think whether its worth the risk, l took the risk because it was no good as it was
yours is shooting good but fowling

l would have to think about it if it was a shooter but having a look with the teslong l cannot see any damage from using it
l know the throat did not move at all
l do not like barrel that fowl even if they shoot and in the past have usually just replaced them with a decent hand lapped match barrel

something to think about anyway

[marksman]

here's one of what you dont want to see Tassie
heat cracking
still shoots dots but for how long

[RosscoL]

I know this is an old thread but would love to know how TT got on eventually with his copper fouling problem. I was reading this thread and couldn’t believe it. I got a Sauer 100 12 months ago in 7mm-08. It fouled up just like Tassies. I’ve also tried heaps of different cleaning products and procedures with no luck. It shoots Speer 110 TNTs into .25 to .5 groups. Haven’t got the 150gr pills quite that tight yet.
Would love to know if he finally sorted the fouling problem or how he got on as I’d like to try the same.
Any chance Tassie or anyone who knows how he got on could help me out would be great.
Thanks RL

[Larry]

I would give your barrel a clean with JB bore paste. In the hope it would smooth out any imperfections that the copper will get caught up on. Get yourself a $100 Teslong borescope. The only way to really know what is going and how much copper is in the barrel is by using a borescope.

[Bugman]

Copper fouling? Guess it depends on many Big Macs they've eaten.
Sorry, I know it is a serious subject, but I was tempted to stray off the path.

[RosscoL]

Thanks Larry. I’ll have a look to see what I can find at my LGS. I haven’t used a bore past before so will need to find out the correct procedure

[NTSOG]

G'day,

I'm intrigued by the idea of knowing rather than guessing what's happening in the bores of my rifles, both old and new, even though I fear it may increase my neurotic state - my wife's opinion - and tendency to clean excessively. So who sells the Teslong borescopes in Australia?

Jim

[Larry]

I bought mine direct from Teslong. The VRA are selling them but why pay more when you can get it direct from the manufacture.

[on_one_wheel]

Great bore scope pictures from marksman.
I'd be interested to know what borescope that is?
Is marksman still here? I don't think he's posted anything this year.

[Larry]

That borescope is a Teslong.

[wanneroo]

Haven't heard from TassieTiger for a while. He was a good guy to talk to, hope he's doing well.

[NTSOG]

Thank you Larry. I'll contact Teslong in the USA and see about buying one.

Jim

[No1_49er]

I bought the flexible 36" model NTG100, direct from Teslong. US$50 + shipping, which was another US$20. A cheap but very good set-up.

[Larry]

Thank you Larry. I'll contact Teslong in the USA and see about buying one.

Jim

Not in the US they are Chinese the Americans hate that but they are happy to buy the unit on Amazon. Not sure if it is on the Aus Amazon site.

[on_one_wheel]

Haven't heard from TassieTiger for a while. He was a good guy to talk to, hope he's doing well.

He hasn't posted at all this year either.
I think we may have lost a few forum members with the arrival of a couple of antagonistic new members.
Very unfortunate.

[Bill]

the snow flake melted...

[MJW380]

Ah Bill, good to see you haven’t changed. Still stirring/trying to start an argument.

[Bill]

Not at all MJW380, if we cant have a laugh at ourselves then we have lost our Aussieness

I recently used a Bartlien barrel for a build and I'm shocked at the lack of copper fouling. 4 or 5 carbon patches and the barrel is clean, no copper to be found

[NTSOG]

Bill: "... if we cant have a laugh at ourselves then we have lost our Aussieness."

On the subject of rifle bores and equipment used to clean them I looked up Teslong on Amazon Australia as Larry suggested only to find one the model shown is out of stock. However I did find this while scanning other shooting/maintenance equipment shown at the bottom of the page:

"Birchwood Casey - Unisex-Adult Birchwood Casey 30-30/308/30-06/7.62mm Cotton Bore Mop BC-41325, White"

Apparently our firearms have gender, but a 'unisex' bore mop from Birchwood Casey will cater for all adult 'tastes'.

[NTSOG]

G'day,

I bought a borescope from the US: $US129.00 plus $US20.00 postage which equals just under $A190.00. It only took two weeks to arrive. It's brilliant.

https://teslong.com/collections/rifle-b ... -hd-screen

I started by viewing the bore of my Weihrauch 60J [.222] which has only fired about 300 rounds from new and went through a break-in period to about 50 rounds with lots of cleaning with patches only; no brushes. It had minimal fouling of any sort and the were no strange markings/pitting etc. Even so I decided to give it a full clean but got no sign of copper on patches with KG copper remover. I then neutralised the bore and tried Hoppe's Bench rest; there was no copper indicated on patches. After cleaning I had to slightly adjust the scope - it was off right by about two clicks.

Next was my Anschutz 1532 [.222 Rem] which is an old rifle and had clearly had a lot of use before I bought it. It is slightly more accurate than the newer Weihrauch; both shoot around one inch at 100 yards. Compared to the much newer Weihrauch the bore was not a pretty sight; frankly it looked terrible at first glance. The bore is pitted in some places, there are what I can only interpret as 'tool' marks at different places. There was a little copper showing close to the breech, but not at the muzzle. I cleaned it as for the Weihrauch, but got minimal sign of copper on patches. When I shot it after cleaning it was within 0.15mm of my aim point [first clean and cold shot] off my hunting tripod rest and grouped at about 26mm with four shots about 6 minutes apart for each.

It's good to know what's going on inside, but, if the Anschutz is any indication, an aged and well used rifle barrel even showing wear and imperfections can still shoot very accurately for my purpose which is hunting. So how much and how often should we be cleaning the blessed things? In hindsight neither rifle needed to be cleaned as both were shooting very well, but it was an interesting exercise and I now have a baseline for both rifles in that I recorded the condition of the bores on video with the Teslong for future reference.

Jim

[Larry]

When using the KG copper remover you will never see any sign of copper no matter how much it removes. It works by a different action to the other cleaners ( a different chemical reaction) but it does work well.

[NTSOG]

Hi Larry,

Yes the instructions make it clear that there is no 'blue', but a 'light brown residue' which I did see on a couple of patches. I suspect there was damn-all copper in both bores to be honest.

Thanks for your advice,

Jim

[linkoln]

I've only put a couple hundred rounds through my pistol and it is already getting copper fouling on the feed ramp.
Is that something I need to address or is it OK to leave?

[Veetwin]

The copper is reducing the dimensions of your barrel and you are layering down copper with every shot. Accuracy will get worse over time. I would push a wet patch up the muzzle and add copper solvent, wait a while then give it a scrub. Then do it again until clean. I use Boretec which is pretty effective.

I cannot understand why you got that advice from your gunsmith. Write to John Gilles and ask him. If he agrees then fair enough but I cannot see it happening.

Yes Boretech eliminator, that is the stuff.