Wind

[bladeracer]

I was making some notes and decided I might as well share for comment

For anybody interested in learning about wind holds, you need some sort of consistent wind indicator, heavy enough that it doesn't whip all around, but not so heavy that it only swings an inch in a 10mph wind. A four-foot strip of four-inch wide bed sheet works well for me, as it is readily replaced (assuming you kept the rest of the sheet you tore it off), and virtually free. I keep sheets for covering machinery when I'm working on something.

Head and tail winds do affect the bullet, but the biggest effect is crosswind. Crosswind doesn't relate to the actual speed of the wind though, only the speed at which the wind crosses your line of fire, regardless of its actual direction. If you're shooting in a 20mph wind but it's coming over your right shoulder from five-o'clock, it's probably only applying a 5mph crosswind to your bullet, or less. The different effect on the bullet is dramatic between 20mph and 5mph. It's good to know the wind speed and direction, but what you really need to know is the wind speed perpendicular to your line of fire. It's better to know the wind at your firing position rather than at the target, but it's more difficult to watch a wind flag a meter in front of you, as well as focus on a target 200m away. If you can place wind flags along the line of fire, do so as you'll see exactly what the wind is doing, but good luck trying to plot a flight path through it

Remember physics too. A bullet travels straight unless a force (wind) acts upon it to change its direction. When that force is released it goes back travelling straight again, but now in the direction it's going when that force stops. A 50mph gust of wind for a hundredth of a second has less effect on the bullet than the 5mph wind that is constant over the other 99-hundredths of the second it's in flight.

Set your "flag" up directly above a gong a little bigger than the rifle can group. Zoom in enough that you can see the target, and the wind indicator. Shooting with both eyes open is good also, but I think most people struggle on high magnification. 18-power takes a little settling into for me, lower powers are easier to superimpose your sight picture over the world view. I really can't shoot both eyes open through a scope with my left eye at all.

Then get some bricks of ammo (which is why I highly recommend practicing with .22LR a _lot_), and concentrate on the flag, more than your sight picture. Fire a few rounds _only_ when the flag drops to completely vertical, and zero your sights to drop your bullets on your point of aim at that point, at least in the vertical. You can worry about head/tail winds affecting your elevation later. Then take a sight picture, but focus on the flag. If it regularly drops vertical you can simply wait (a lot) and fire when it does, with no wind hold.

Because .22LR is so much cheaper than your 6.5mm stuff, you can afford to play around with the flag and learn stuff. When the flag is just off vertical, say 100mm out from the pole you probably won't need any wind hold out to 200m. When the flag is 300mm out from the pole you might want a 50mm hold. When the flag is hanging at 45-degrees (a 1400mm flag would be 1000mm out from the pole), you might want a 100mm hold. When the flag is lying horizontally you might need a 200mm hold, or more.

It depends a lot on your specific wind indicator. Mine for example is horizontal at 10mph, so anything higher has zero visual effect on the flag.

If you shoot competition, I suggest getting the same flag your club uses. If that's not possible I would take your flag in, set it near theirs, and see how yours compares to theirs for future reference.

If anybody would like correct, clarify or add anything please do. I'd love to see more people playing with their .22's at longer ranges

[Wm.Traynor]

As an aspiring marksman 60 years ago, I devoted myself to a study of a book by Jim Sweet**, a multi- Queen's Prize winner. He listed the differences in allowances, for winds coming from various positions on the clock-face, relative to the shooter. It did my brain in, especially at first but it gave me a general idea which I persisted with over the years. Towards the end of my career I would simply memorise the allowance for for each direction, at the distance I was shooting at the time. Changes in strength would throw those calculations overboard Even further toward the end, I made every shot a sighter, which for me, worked well...................................mostly, until it didn't

But one piece of advice that I have never forgotten came from my Club Champion of the time. "Keep one eye on the sights, one eye on the flags and the other eye on the mirage". "It's that easy, Bill", he said with a grin.

** "Competitive Rifle Shooting"(?) It's so long I have forgotten

Needless to say, none of this is meant to detract from the efforts of bladeracer to start a discussion on this subject. Good on him, in fact, because it should lead to a greater understanding of this vexing and humiliating subject.

[bladeracer]

As an aspiring marksman 60 years ago, I devoted myself to a study of a book by Jim Sweet**, a multi- Queen's Prize winner. He listed the differences in allowances, for winds coming from various positions on the clock-face, relative to the shooter. It did my brain in, especially at first but it gave me a general idea which I persisted with over the years. Towards the end of my career I would simply memorise the allowance for for each direction, at the distance I was shooting at the time. Changes in strength would throw those calculations overboard Even further toward the end, I made every shot a sighter, which for me, worked well...................................mostly, until it didn't

But one piece of advice that I have never forgotten came from my Club Champion of the time. "Keep one eye on the sights, one eye on the flags and the other eye on the mirage". "It's that easy, Bill", he said with a grin.

** "Competitive Rifle Shooting"(?) It's so long I have forgotten

Needless to say, none of this is meant to detract from the efforts of bladeracer to start a discussion on this subject. Good on him, in fact, because it should lead to a greater understanding of this vexing and humiliating subject.

You reminded me that I have a book as well that discusses wind. Probably a very good book, but I think I struggled with the writing style rather than the content. I'll have to pull it out and have another go at it.

It's "The Wind Book for Rifle Shooters" by Miller & Cunningham 2006. I'll have another read and post my thoughts on it. I probably should have read it before posting this thread now I think about it

This was just some notes I was collating as I said. If I'd had in mind to publish it I would have made an effort to make it clearer

I think almost all attempts to explain "wind" tend to work around watching the terrain, or the Beaufort Scale, which I think makes it very complex to learn. I suggest a better result comes from removing the variable indicators, and just focus on how wind effects a single consistent indicator - a flag of some sort. Once you develop that understanding of the basics of wind movement, then you can learn to relate it directly to the environment more easily. And then, you can apply that knowledge to your bullet.

And concentrate at one specific distance at first, as distance (or the time the bullet is in flight) has as much importance as the wind speed itself. In a 100mph wind you probably won't have any trouble hitting a 6" gong at 10m, but a 5mph wind can make it very difficult to hit a 24" gong at 1000m.

When practicing or learning, the distance needs to be sufficient that wind is able to noticeably move your point of impact away from where your bullets are grouping without wind. But not so far that 2mph wind change moves your bullet impact out of sight completely.

For me, it's very rare to find myself with "no wind" here, so virtually all of my shooting requires some cognisance of what the wind is doing, even at 50m. I also do a lot off of offhand shooting practice, where wind becomes a much bigger issue. Not only is your bullet being affected by the wind, your rifle and your whole body is also being pushed around. You are tensing a lot of muscles just to retain your own balance, and you are tensing other muscles trying to get the rifle pointing in the right direction. When you apply force against the wind, and the wind drops, you have to reduce your own force the same amount to keep that balance. On the other hand, you have all of those muscles giving you information about the wind, and how it will affect your shot - you become your own wind flag.

I don't get a lot of mirage here through most of the year, but I find it makes it easier to "see" the wind. Mirage affects the passage of light through the air back to your eyes, a little like looking at something underwater. It means the target is not actually where your eyes are telling you it is, similar to parallax error. You can have a perfect sight picture, but you are sighting at your flawed perception of where the target is, not where the target actually is. Magnification makes it easier to see the air moving in the mirage though. Lots of people suggest backing off the zoom until the mirage becomes invisible, but I'm not convinced if that fixes the problem, or merely hides the problem from view. It may be just as effective to close your eyes if it's the latter

I wish I had more mirage to play with, or at least be able to predict when it might be an issue so I can grab a rifle and go and learn more about it.

I will say that, despite a lifetime of working in mph and kph, it does annoy me that we measure wind speed in mph I'm sure in Europe, where they measure velocity in mps, they must measure wind speed the same. It just makes more sense that, measuring velocity in fps, we would measure wind speed in fps, especially as it converts so easily (for wind speeds). Fps is 50% more than mph, 10mph is 15fps, 5mph is 7.5fps, 1mph is 1.5fps.

[Wm.Traynor]

Wind speed was measured in knots. I am not up to speed (pun intended) with modern nomenclature.
If you want to see mirage, focus on an object closer than the target with your spotting scope. Focus at shorter distances to see what it is doing overall, if you have only one sheet/wind indicator. FWIW, I only resorted to watching mirage when the flags were pointing in different directions at different ranges.
Good Luck

[bladeracer]

Wind speed was measured in knots. I am not up to speed (pun intended) with modern nomenclature.
If you want to see mirage, focus on an object closer than the target with your spotting scope. Focus at shorter distances to see what it is doing overall, if you have only one sheet/wind indicator. FWIW, I only resorted to watching mirage when the flags were pointing in different directions at different ranges.
Good Luck

I think wind speed is still measured in knots' in sailing and aeronautics at least.
But mph seems to have become the defacto standard in precision shooting, at least, that's the only unit I ever see.

[Biscuits]

I had an interesting trip to a range I had not been to previously, over the weekend. The firing point is on a ridge, therefore you shoot down into the ground below. Unlike a range on flat ground, here you shoot from an elevated position and all the ground in front if you is lower. Multiple steel targets from about 150 metres to 1000 metres. Although the ground in front of the ridge is lower, it still isnt flat, there are other lower ridge lines parallel to the firing point so the ground is undulating. Targets are small in the horizontal direction, about 1.2 MoA wide.

The wind at the firing point was low-moderate from 90 to around 150 degrees variable, ie from direct crosswind from my right to a rear quartering wind.

Had first shot hits on all targets up to about 600m, followed on the next target by a first shot miss. Made corrections and was able to hit all further targets to 1000m, some on first shot, some on second, one took 5 shots. The ground was grass, neither spotter nor myself could not see any impacts from the miss. Directs hit on the on the steel target only were visible. So the 5 shot target I had to shoot in a grid around the target until it hit it and could see the impact of a hit; if the ground had been different and I had been able to spot the misses, I probably would have hit that particular target on the 2nd rather than 5th shot. Anyway, this brings me to the reason for posting.

The firing point was at ground level but the path of the bullet once it left the high ridge of the firing point, was maybe 100 metres above ground, until it connected with the target. Wind speed is not constant with elevation. Wind speed increases with elevation... if you go to aircraft altitudes, it can be quite normal to have a 200mph wind. The standard height for reporting wind speeds which you see in the weather forecast is 10m above ground level. However you usually shoot from the ground, the wind speed will be less than at the reference 10m height. In my case, as soon as the bullet left the barrel, it was off the ridge and then 50 or 100m high above the ground below. Higher up, where the wind is stonger.

The misses i had were because I did not dial in enough wind. I did not dial in enough wind as I had mistakenly calculated for the wind at the firing point being constant downrange, whereas most of the trajectory of the bullet was high above the ground, so it had a much higher wind on it.

On the elevation side, a head or tail wind (or head/tail wind component if it is not coming exactly 0 or 180 degrees) will also affect elevation, not that much, but a bit. I believe the reason I was dialling 10.3 millirad of elevation at the 1000m target instead of 10.6 millirad which my calculator was telling me, was due to the tailwind component.

[bigrich]

I don’t need flags or strips of bedsheet, I watch the birds. If a crow is going in a 45 degree angle to the direction he’s flying in , just go home and have a beer

[bladeracer]

If we were doing this in the Middle Ages we'd all been burned as witches

I always try to shoot at 50m to confirm my zero before I stretch out. If I'm an inch or two out at 50m I'm going to be miles off at distance.

Yes, the wind speed at altitude is what makes it difficult to find somewhere here to shoot long-range. You end up shooting across a valley that might be several hundred meters deep, and valleys also funnel winds, so the cross wind speeds can get ridiculous. Start shooting across several ridges where the altitude of the bullet AGL varies from a meter or two, to two or three hundred meters and life becomes very difficult

I have recorded speeds over 100kph coming over the ridge just above the house here, when it's not actually considered stormy weather. I've been shooting every day for the past few weeks, even during the storms that brought down trees, sheds and the power grid. Even when it's relatively calm I'm measuring wind speeds in the 10mph to 15mph region most days.

I put another hundred rounds downrange this morning with the .22LR in fairly light cross wind, but heavy head and tail winds swapping about. Very frustrating shooting The 125mm gongs are 2.3MoA at 185m, and my shots were bouncing between too high or too low. I still managed more hits than misses though

Really, without the variability of the wind, long-range gong-ringing would get boring very quickly

I put up a 750mm-square plate at 300m this morning. It should be large enough that I should be able to keep my shots somewhere on it (after sussing out the wind at 185m before extending out there), which should give me some very useful wind study this week. Because I have to shoot over the dam, I had to put the plate more than 3m above ground, so misses won't register anywhere, they'll just disappear into the rubber sheets hanging behind it. When I've sussed out what the wind is doing out there, I'll take some 5" and 6" gongs out as well. One-minute is 87mm at 300m, so I'll need to be shooting very well regardless of the wind to have any hope of hitting the 1.4 and 1.7MoA gongs with any consistency. I also have plates that are 220mm wide by 420mm deep, or 2.5MoA by 4.8MoA. I think I'll be fine on those though.

I had an interesting trip to a range I had not been to previously, over the weekend. The firing point is on a ridge, therefore you shoot down into the ground below. Unlike a range on flat ground, here you shoot from an elevated position and all the ground in front if you is lower. Multiple steel targets from about 150 metres to 1000 metres. Although the ground in front of the ridge is lower, it still isnt flat, there are other lower ridge lines parallel to the firing point so the ground is undulating. Targets are small in the horizontal direction, about 1.2 MoA wide.

The wind at the firing point was low-moderate from 90 to around 150 degrees variable, ie from direct crosswind from my right to a rear quartering wind.

Had first shot hits on all targets up to about 600m, followed on the next target by a first shot miss. Made corrections and was able to hit all further targets to 1000m, some on first shot, some on second, one took 5 shots. The ground was grass, neither spotter nor myself could not see any impacts from the miss. Directs hit on the on the steel target only were visible. So the 5 shot target I had to shoot in a grid around the target until it hit it and could see the impact of a hit; if the ground had been different and I had been able to spot the misses, I probably would have hit that particular target on the 2nd rather than 5th shot. Anyway, this brings me to the reason for posting.

The firing point was at ground level but the path of the bullet once it left the high ridge of the firing point, was maybe 100 metres above ground, until it connected with the target. Wind speed is not constant with elevation. Wind speed increases with elevation... if you go to aircraft altitudes, it can be quite normal to have a 200mph wind. The standard height for reporting wind speeds which you see in the weather forecast is 10m above ground level. However you usually shoot from the ground, the wind speed will be less than at the reference 10m height. In my case, as soon as the bullet left the barrel, it was off the ridge and then 50 or 100m high above the ground below. Higher up, where the wind is stonger.

The misses i had were because I did not dial in enough wind. I did not dial in enough wind as I had mistakenly calculated for the wind at the firing point being constant downrange, whereas most of the trajectory of the bullet was high above the ground, so it had a much higher wind on it.

On the elevation side, a head or tail wind (or head/tail wind component if it is not coming exactly 0 or 180 degrees) will also affect elevation, not that much, but a bit. I believe the reason I was dialling 10.3 millirad of elevation at the 1000m target instead of 10.6 millirad which my calculator was telling me, was due to the tailwind component.

[bladeracer]

I don’t need flags or strips of bedsheet, I watch the birds. If a crow is going in a 45 degree angle to the direction he’s flying in , just go home and have a beer

Too right!
We get birds flying backwards here all the time
If they want to get somewhere they have to get down low and hug the ground and trees.

[bladeracer]

Are you guys in the UK measuring wind in mph or something else?

I had an interesting trip to a range I had not been to previously, over the weekend. The firing point is on a ridge, therefore you shoot down into the ground below. Unlike a range on flat ground, here you shoot from an elevated position and all the ground in front if you is lower. Multiple steel targets from about 150 metres to 1000 metres. Although the ground in front of the ridge is lower, it still isnt flat, there are other lower ridge lines parallel to the firing point so the ground is undulating. Targets are small in the horizontal direction, about 1.2 MoA wide.

The wind at the firing point was low-moderate from 90 to around 150 degrees variable, ie from direct crosswind from my right to a rear quartering wind.

Had first shot hits on all targets up to about 600m, followed on the next target by a first shot miss. Made corrections and was able to hit all further targets to 1000m, some on first shot, some on second, one took 5 shots. The ground was grass, neither spotter nor myself could not see any impacts from the miss. Directs hit on the on the steel target only were visible. So the 5 shot target I had to shoot in a grid around the target until it hit it and could see the impact of a hit; if the ground had been different and I had been able to spot the misses, I probably would have hit that particular target on the 2nd rather than 5th shot. Anyway, this brings me to the reason for posting.

The firing point was at ground level but the path of the bullet once it left the high ridge of the firing point, was maybe 100 metres above ground, until it connected with the target. Wind speed is not constant with elevation. Wind speed increases with elevation... if you go to aircraft altitudes, it can be quite normal to have a 200mph wind. The standard height for reporting wind speeds which you see in the weather forecast is 10m above ground level. However you usually shoot from the ground, the wind speed will be less than at the reference 10m height. In my case, as soon as the bullet left the barrel, it was off the ridge and then 50 or 100m high above the ground below. Higher up, where the wind is stonger.

The misses i had were because I did not dial in enough wind. I did not dial in enough wind as I had mistakenly calculated for the wind at the firing point being constant downrange, whereas most of the trajectory of the bullet was high above the ground, so it had a much higher wind on it.

On the elevation side, a head or tail wind (or head/tail wind component if it is not coming exactly 0 or 180 degrees) will also affect elevation, not that much, but a bit. I believe the reason I was dialling 10.3 millirad of elevation at the 1000m target instead of 10.6 millirad which my calculator was telling me, was due to the tailwind component.

[Blr243]

How much distance does a brutal 90 degree wind push a 3000 FPS 130 270 pill at 200 m distance ? Not exact please , I pulled these figures out of the air

[bladeracer]

How much distance does a brutal 90 degree wind push a 3000 FPS 130 270 pill at 200 m distance ? Not exact please , I pulled these figures out of the air

There's some variables in there
What is "brutal" wind exactly? 40mph is very difficult to walk into, but probably won't blow you off your feet.

A 20mph crosswind with a generic soft-point hunting bullet will probably drift in the region of 250mm to 300mm.

[Wm.Traynor]

That is about right, bladeracer.

[bladeracer]

That is about right, bladeracer.

I'm putting together data for the .22LR Eley Standard I'm working with just now.
BC is looking like around .130, quite a bit more drop than I find with CCI Standard, which is the same bullet weight and 20fps less velocity than the Eley. The Eley gives me occasional supersonic cracks, maybe around 1% of a 500rd box.

From a 50m zero, 200m drop is 30MoA or 1750mm, with 8.7MoA drift in 10mph, 300m is 5000mm drop, with 1100mm wind.

[bigrich]

Too windy, just go have a beer!

[Blr243]

Blade, are you saying in a bad wind at 200 m there could be 10-12 inches of poi change ? If so that’s a fair bit more than what I expected. Fortunately I don’t encounter wind like that in the field and I do my best to be perfectly downwind of my game .....but it’s still good to be mindful of its effect on bullet flight.

[Biscuits]

There are free online calculators which will give you this. One is https://shooterscalculator.com/ballisti ... -chart.php
although this will only use imperial units, no metric.

To get good results, you need the BC (ballistic coefficient) of the bullet, usually found on the box or manufacturers website and muzzle velocity. If you don't know, use one of the generic presets, eg 22LR, 30-06 or 308 etc, which is closest to the cartridge you are using.

[bladeracer]

Blade, are you saying in a bad wind at 200 m there could be 10-12 inches of poi change ? If so that’s a fair bit more than what I expected. Fortunately I don’t encounter wind like that in the field and I do my best to be perfectly downwind of my game .....but it’s still good to be mindful of its effect on bullet flight.

Yep, high winds can really move bullets around
In the field the best way to beat wind is to get a lot closer.

I actually go out and do some shooting when the wind gets up, just to learn from it.

[Johnno]

Not many shooters at all have rifles that have achieved a true no wind zero for a starting point. It's usually always either one or several clicks up to no good and it's very hard to get it right without using an indoor range, preferably for 100 m, and there there are no such ranges in my home state SA, to my knowledge.
You'd need that no wind zero to calculate the wind effect using an app such as Strelok, and then combine the info using the flags at the range. Notes or a good memory are essential.
I would gladly pay big money to use an indoor range to sight my rifles in. 200m would be a dream. Then you'd really know what your rifle is capable of.

[bladeracer]

Yes...and no
If you have wind, you zero your windage at closer range, before you start extending. 10m is about as close as I would do, 20m is my usual windage check if it's really windy. At 10m, even a .22LR deflects less than 4mm in a 10mph wind. Then set the windage turret to zero.

If you had very steady wind, theoretically you could shoot from both directions, then split the difference.

There's nothing gained by shooting indoors that helps you in the field. If you want to learn to shoot better in wind, you need to get out and shoot in wind, as much as you can. It's like trying to equate shooting Benchrest to hunting, there is virtually no crossover in skills. It's also why you don't zero with bags, unless you shoot in the field with bags. I use bags when I want to remove my skill from test, as when I'm studying the wind, the ammo, or the rifle. When I'm trying to improve my skill, the bags exit stage left

.22LR magnifies wind effect, while reducing the learning cost even more. Your $3 competition centrefire bullet complies with the same physical laws in wind as your 10c .22Lr bullet does at closer distances.

Being able to shoot in no wind is only helpful if you always shoot in no wind, like some competition air-pistol.

My offhand shooting has improved very noticeably since I decided to spend a lot more time practicing offhand (Something like 30,000rds in the past four or five years I've shot offhand - I regularly spend weeks shooting a 100rd minimum practice every day offhand). I doubt it has made any measurable difference at all to my shooting off bags.

I fired 1551rds of .22LR last week, 1251 in the JW25A, maybe 150rds of that was offhand - I'll generally start or finish a bench session offhand, just for giggles. The rest was offhand with my lever action .22's.

If somebody challenged me to a shooting competition, my choice would be offhand, unsupported, open sights. Not because I'm any good at it, but I might be better at it than the challenger

Not many shooters at all have rifles that have achieved a true no wind zero for a starting point. It's usually always either one or several clicks up to no good and it's very hard to get it right without using an indoor range, preferably for 100 m, and there there are no such ranges in my home state SA, to my knowledge.
You'd need that no wind zero to calculate the wind effect using an app such as Strelok, and then combine the info using the flags at the range. Notes or a good memory are essential.
I would gladly pay big money to use an indoor range to sight my rifles in. 200m would be a dream. Then you'd really know what your rifle is capable of.

[Johnno]

Sako guarantees that their rifles will produce 30mm at 100m “out of the box”. To make sure they do, Sako test fires every rifle on their 100m indoor range before it leaves the factory. They have eliminated the wind factor there and these guarantees sell a lot of rifles as you wouldn't buy an expensive rifle unless there is some proof as to what it can do under ideal conditions.
Your load development or factory ammo selection after the purchase would likewise be best tested indoors over say 100m. When you then go outdoors, you will be starting to read the wind from a more accurate level.
The method of reducing the distance such as down to 10 metres to achieve a zero outdoors has merit as it may be the best thing to do under the circumstances but it is not a true zero. The errors will be magnified ten times or more over 100m. Most rifles are not zero wind tuned and the groups they produce would usually be tighter indoors. To constantly adjust the windage knob also wears out the mechanism quicker and I usually only use reference points rather than adjusting the windage.

[bladeracer]

Sako guarantees that their rifles will produce 30mm at 100m “out of the box”. To make sure they do, Sako test fires every rifle on their 100m indoor range before it leaves the factory. They have eliminated the wind factor there and these guarantees sell a lot of rifles as you wouldn't buy an expensive rifle unless there is some proof as to what it can do under ideal conditions.
Your load development or factory ammo selection after the purchase would likewise be best tested indoors over say 100m. When you then go outdoors, you will be starting to read the wind from a more accurate level.
The method of reducing the distance such as down to 10 metres to achieve a zero outdoors has merit as it may be the best thing to do under the circumstances but it is not a true zero. The errors will be magnified ten times or more over 100m. Most rifles are not zero wind tuned and the groups they produce would usually be tighter indoors. To constantly adjust the windage knob also wears out the mechanism quicker and I usually only use reference points rather than adjusting the windage.

I don't think Ruger makes any guarantee about accuracy, but my four Americans and my brother's one all shoot MoA or better at 100m with virtually anything I've tried in them. Even my three Ruger rimfires in .22LR can generally maintain 1MoA to 100m with ammo they like. And I haven't shot groups indoors since air-rifles in the eighties. And I'm not a talented shooter at all.

I rarely bother dialing for wind, but I dial for elevation numerous times every session I shoot. I don't much care if the windage turret is likely to wear our as my elevation turrets would've worn years before them

[in2anity]

I was making some notes and decided I might as well share for comment

For anybody interested in learning about wind holds, you need some sort of consistent wind indicator, heavy enough that it doesn't whip all around, but not so heavy that it only swings an inch in a 10mph wind. A four-foot strip of four-inch wide bed sheet works well for me, as it is readily replaced (assuming you kept the rest of the sheet you tore it off), and virtually free. I keep sheets for covering machinery when I'm working on something.

Head and tail winds do affect the bullet, but the biggest effect is crosswind. Crosswind doesn't relate to the actual speed of the wind though, only the speed at which the wind crosses your line of fire, regardless of its actual direction. If you're shooting in a 20mph wind but it's coming over your right shoulder from five-o'clock, it's probably only applying a 5mph crosswind to your bullet, or less. The different effect on the bullet is dramatic between 20mph and 5mph. It's good to know the wind speed and direction, but what you really need to know is the wind speed perpendicular to your line of fire. It's better to know the wind at your firing position rather than at the target, but it's more difficult to watch a wind flag a meter in front of you, as well as focus on a target 200m away. If you can place wind flags along the line of fire, do so as you'll see exactly what the wind is doing, but good luck trying to plot a flight path through it

Remember physics too. A bullet travels straight unless a force (wind) acts upon it to change its direction. When that force is released it goes back travelling straight again, but now in the direction it's going when that force stops. A 50mph gust of wind for a hundredth of a second has less effect on the bullet than the 5mph wind that is constant over the other 99-hundredths of the second it's in flight.

Set your "flag" up directly above a gong a little bigger than the rifle can group. Zoom in enough that you can see the target, and the wind indicator. Shooting with both eyes open is good also, but I think most people struggle on high magnification. 18-power takes a little settling into for me, lower powers are easier to superimpose your sight picture over the world view. I really can't shoot both eyes open through a scope with my left eye at all.

Then get some bricks of ammo (which is why I highly recommend practicing with .22LR a _lot_), and concentrate on the flag, more than your sight picture. Fire a few rounds _only_ when the flag drops to completely vertical, and zero your sights to drop your bullets on your point of aim at that point, at least in the vertical. You can worry about head/tail winds affecting your elevation later. Then take a sight picture, but focus on the flag. If it regularly drops vertical you can simply wait (a lot) and fire when it does, with no wind hold.

Because .22LR is so much cheaper than your 6.5mm stuff, you can afford to play around with the flag and learn stuff. When the flag is just off vertical, say 100mm out from the pole you probably won't need any wind hold out to 200m. When the flag is 300mm out from the pole you might want a 50mm hold. When the flag is hanging at 45-degrees (a 1400mm flag would be 1000mm out from the pole), you might want a 100mm hold. When the flag is lying horizontally you might need a 200mm hold, or more.

It depends a lot on your specific wind indicator. Mine for example is horizontal at 10mph, so anything higher has zero visual effect on the flag.

If you shoot competition, I suggest getting the same flag your club uses. If that's not possible I would take your flag in, set it near theirs, and see how yours compares to theirs for future reference.

If anybody would like correct, clarify or add anything please do. I'd love to see more people playing with their .22's at longer ranges

Blade respectfully gonna have to disagree with your statement that "Head and tail winds do affect the bullet, but the biggest effect is crosswind" - in fact quite the opposite. The worst wind to deal with is a fishy head or tail wind - just ask any competitive target shooter (either TR or F-class) and they will tell you the same. In fact it's basic coaching when you get into these disciplines.

The reason is to do with the "factor" which is applied during calculation (considering the wind direction is always fluctuating).

Lets do an example:

A three oclock (or nine o’clock) direction has the highest factor of 4 in a calculation which is made up of three parts, A) strength B) direction C) distance. Basically multiply the relevant coefficient values together and you will have your windage adjustment.

A two oclock wind is a factor of 3.5. A four oclock wind also has a factor of 3.5. Now, if the wind fluctuates between 2 and 4 oclock (which is quite reasonable), the effect will be minimal. Meanwhile the further you go around the dial toward 12oclock or 6 oclock, (relatively speaking) the more profound the change in factor is compared with adjacencies.

If the wind was coming parallel to the shooter, any small change has a huge effect on POI, worsening with distance.

Lets take another example:

A one oclock headwind has a factor of 1 (i.e 1x the other two factors). If the wind fluctuates to two oclock the direction factor jumps to 2, meaning your windage adjustment suddenly DOUBLES in an instant. If it moves to the twelve oclock, suddenly you have no windage whatsoever because the factor is zero, which multiplies the other two factors out to zero.

In summary, contrary to what seems logical, a perpendicular crosswind is in fact easier to deal with than parallel, considering the wind is never a constant direction.

If you want to learn more, I suggest reading this fullbore guide: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0056/ ... 51b405.pdf

[bladeracer]

I agree completely that a head/tail wind can be devilishly frustrating and difficult to read, but I don't agree that it has a greater effect on point of impact at the target. I'm sure a 10mph full-value crosswind will move your bullet further from your point of aim than a 10mph headwind will.

Thanks for the link too, I'll have a look at it when I get a chance.

Today I had no wind so I did some offhand silhouette practice with the JW21 (had two rounds come adrift in the action today, but I haven't modified the spring yet), then grabbed the JW25A and moved back to 334m, which was when the wind came in I was holding between 6MoA and 9MoA, and wasn't hearing about half of the hits. I need to raise the target 900mm so I can see the hits instead.

I was making some notes and decided I might as well share for comment

For anybody interested in learning about wind holds, you need some sort of consistent wind indicator, heavy enough that it doesn't whip all around, but not so heavy that it only swings an inch in a 10mph wind. A four-foot strip of four-inch wide bed sheet works well for me, as it is readily replaced (assuming you kept the rest of the sheet you tore it off), and virtually free. I keep sheets for covering machinery when I'm working on something.

Head and tail winds do affect the bullet, but the biggest effect is crosswind. Crosswind doesn't relate to the actual speed of the wind though, only the speed at which the wind crosses your line of fire, regardless of its actual direction. If you're shooting in a 20mph wind but it's coming over your right shoulder from five-o'clock, it's probably only applying a 5mph crosswind to your bullet, or less. The different effect on the bullet is dramatic between 20mph and 5mph. It's good to know the wind speed and direction, but what you really need to know is the wind speed perpendicular to your line of fire. It's better to know the wind at your firing position rather than at the target, but it's more difficult to watch a wind flag a meter in front of you, as well as focus on a target 200m away. If you can place wind flags along the line of fire, do so as you'll see exactly what the wind is doing, but good luck trying to plot a flight path through it

Remember physics too. A bullet travels straight unless a force (wind) acts upon it to change its direction. When that force is released it goes back travelling straight again, but now in the direction it's going when that force stops. A 50mph gust of wind for a hundredth of a second has less effect on the bullet than the 5mph wind that is constant over the other 99-hundredths of the second it's in flight.

Set your "flag" up directly above a gong a little bigger than the rifle can group. Zoom in enough that you can see the target, and the wind indicator. Shooting with both eyes open is good also, but I think most people struggle on high magnification. 18-power takes a little settling into for me, lower powers are easier to superimpose your sight picture over the world view. I really can't shoot both eyes open through a scope with my left eye at all.

Then get some bricks of ammo (which is why I highly recommend practicing with .22LR a _lot_), and concentrate on the flag, more than your sight picture. Fire a few rounds _only_ when the flag drops to completely vertical, and zero your sights to drop your bullets on your point of aim at that point, at least in the vertical. You can worry about head/tail winds affecting your elevation later. Then take a sight picture, but focus on the flag. If it regularly drops vertical you can simply wait (a lot) and fire when it does, with no wind hold.

Because .22LR is so much cheaper than your 6.5mm stuff, you can afford to play around with the flag and learn stuff. When the flag is just off vertical, say 100mm out from the pole you probably won't need any wind hold out to 200m. When the flag is 300mm out from the pole you might want a 50mm hold. When the flag is hanging at 45-degrees (a 1400mm flag would be 1000mm out from the pole), you might want a 100mm hold. When the flag is lying horizontally you might need a 200mm hold, or more.

It depends a lot on your specific wind indicator. Mine for example is horizontal at 10mph, so anything higher has zero visual effect on the flag.

If you shoot competition, I suggest getting the same flag your club uses. If that's not possible I would take your flag in, set it near theirs, and see how yours compares to theirs for future reference.

If anybody would like correct, clarify or add anything please do. I'd love to see more people playing with their .22's at longer ranges

Blade respectfully gonna have to disagree with your statement that "Head and tail winds do affect the bullet, but the biggest effect is crosswind" - in fact quite the opposite. The worst wind to deal with is a fishy head or tail wind - just ask any competitive target shooter (either TR or F-class) and they will tell you the same. In fact it's basic coaching when you get into these disciplines.

The reason is to do with the "factor" which is applied during calculation (considering the wind is always fluctuating).

Lets do an example:

A three oclock direction has the highest factor of 4 in a calculation which is made up of three parts, A) strength B) direction C) distance. Multiply the relevant coefficient values together and you will have your windage adjustment.

A two oclock wind is a factor of 3.5. A four oclock wind also has a factor of 3.5. Now, if the wind fluctuates between 2 and 4 oclock (which is quite reasonable), the effect will be minimal. The further you go around the dial toward 12oclock or 6 oclock, relatively speaking the more profound the change in factor.

If the wind was coming parallel to the shooter, any small change has a huge effect on POI.

Lets take another example:

A one oclock headwind has a factor of 1 (i.e 1x the other two factors). If the wind fluctuates to two oclock the direction factor jumps to 2, meaning your windage adjustment suddenly DOUBLES in an instant. If it moves to the twelve oclock, suddenly you have no windage whatsoever because the factor is zero, which multiplies the other two factors out to zero.

In summary, contrary to what seems logical, a perpendicular crosswind is in fact easier to deal with than parallel, considering the wind is never a constant direction.

If you want to learn more, I suggest reading this fullbore guide: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0056/ ... 51b405.pdf

[Blr243]

I tend not to shoot little game and it’s usually up close. Is there anyone else here who has never had to consider the strength of the wind prior to a shot in three decades of hunting? I have only ever paid attention to its direction to ensure I’m not detected

[in2anity]

I agree completely that a head/tail wind can be devilishly frustrating and difficult to read, but I don't agree that it has a greater effect on point of impact at the target. I'm sure a 10mph full-value crosswind will move your bullet further from your point of aim than a 10mph headwind will.

Obviously a perpendicular crosswind will move the bullet the most, but a fluctuating perpendicular is much less damaging to your group compared with the same wind come from a parallel direction. A perpendicular is also easier to observe, either in the form of the flag, or the mirage or even the dust splash or vegetation if you're really out of options.

[bladeracer]

I tend not to shoot little game and it’s usually up close. Is there anyone else here who has never had to consider the strength of the wind prior to a shot in three decades of hunting? I have only ever paid attention to its direction to ensure I’m not detected

Long shots on foxes, crows and rabbits I've had to allow for wind, nothing bigger. I'll always try to avoid having to make a wind allowance on live targets, way too easy to mess it up, even if you read the wind perfectly. Get closer so the wind effect is minimal. On foxes and rabbits at 250-300m you'll often see a miss impact the ground to one side behind the target and can easily adjust for an immediate follow-up shot without needing any guesstimation.

[bladeracer]

I agree completely that a head/tail wind can be devilishly frustrating and difficult to read, but I don't agree that it has a greater effect on point of impact at the target. I'm sure a 10mph full-value crosswind will move your bullet further from your point of aim than a 10mph headwind will.

Obviously a perpendicular crosswind will move the bullet the most, but a fluctuating perpendicular is much less damaging to your group compared with the same wind come from a parallel direction. A perpendicular is also easier to observe, either in the form of the flag, or the mirage or even the dust splash or vegetation if you're really out of options.

Yes, agreed, but I was aiming at learning to read what the wind is doing. For me it's easier to "see" crosswinds on the "flag" or in the mirage, than it is to see head/tail winds.

Splash isn't an option here as it's farmland, grass and mud, no indication at all of bullet impact if you miss the target. All you can do if you get a miss is try aiming at all four corners and hope you're close enough that one of them lands on the target so you then adjust your aim. At 350m, in wind, I'm finding it difficult to hear all my impacts as well, with .22LR.

I'm breaking down some trees that dropped across the tracks so I should soon be able to move my steels out to another paddock with clearer lines of sight. The 750mm-square plate is about 35kg, so I don't like carrying it any further than I have to

[in2anity]

I tend not to shoot little game and it’s usually up close. Is there anyone else here who has never had to consider the strength of the wind prior to a shot in three decades of hunting? I have only ever paid attention to its direction to ensure I’m not detected

The way I see things, hunters tend to go for "wind-cheating" calibers that shoot fast and flat out to reasonable distances. I have a 204 in the safe and it's very accurate to 200m with zero consideration made to the wind. A very easy to use caliber at short range. And that's how hunting rifles should be - humane.

[bladeracer]

I tend not to shoot little game and it’s usually up close. Is there anyone else here who has never had to consider the strength of the wind prior to a shot in three decades of hunting? I have only ever paid attention to its direction to ensure I’m not detected

The way I see things, hunters tend to go for "wind-cheating" calibers that shoot fast and flat out to reasonable distances. I have a 204 in the safe and it's very accurate to 200m with zero consideration made to the wind. A very easy to use caliber at short range. And that's how hunting rifles should be - humane.

Even the 40gn VMax still requires wind allowance at 200m. A 10mph crosswind will push the bullet 60mm sideways at 200m, and 90mm at 300m (I don't recommend the. 204 much further than 300m). But shooting at small targets, like rabbits, cats and fox heads, it really just means if there's a breeze you hold along the side of the target rather than right on it. If you don't want to be bothered with wind, load up an 80gn ELDM in .223, or a 147gn ELDM in a 6.5x55mm or Creedmoor.