Winchester 9422 issues.

[bladeracer]

Was out enjoying the weather this arvo
Took the JW21 (Chinese copy of the 9422) out for some offhand steel practice in 15-25mph winds and rain to see if I could learn something (other than the obvious!)
Put 15rds on the chicken with about 50% hits (after I had this issue when I got back out there everything had blown over so I didn't bother inspecting the targets). Put nine on the pig (one dropped shot), then had a fail-to-fire. The previous three rounds or so had needed a bit of an extra pressure toward the end of the stroke to chamber them but it didn't strike me as a mechanical issue. The ftf had a good dent, but it was toward the centre, not the rim. I popped it into the end of the magazine and continued. But the rounds were ejecting as soon as they came out the top of the bolt grooves. Back to the office for a look...

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I think I can see the problem
The left extractor has been flattened against the bolt face. It's job is to hold the case head against the bolt face to keep the cartridge aligned to feed cleanly into the chamber, and to apply rightward pressure against the case to keep it hooked behind the primary extractor during extraction.

It must've developed a burr on the bottom that caused the rising cartridge rim to bend it up instead of pushing into position behind it. This would've been the glitch in the cycling, until it was so bent it became caught behind the case head and flattened out, resulting in the bad strike - I'm amazed the action even closed on this! After clearing the failed round, the next rounds were coming off the top of the bolt grooves and immediately being ejected by the obstruction of the bolt face.

I dug a spare out and had it replaced in a few minutes.

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So I need to order some more spares. My dealer can't get Winchester (or Norinco) stuff so I'll have to order parts from Rebel's.

I went back out to find my targets all lying down, except a plow disc. So I put the remaining 76rds onto it at 100m. All good, including the failure.

But I had a new issue
Several times a round came out of the magazine tube before the rim was locked into the lifter grooves in the bolt face, so I had a loose round floating around in the open action. The next round was properly caught behind the cartridge stop, so it doesn't seem to be a magazine issue. But it was happening in the last two or three rounds in the tube, when the spring is at its weakest.

Anybody able to give me a clue where to look for damage? I have a spare magazine tube spring I can try, and I can cut a piece of aluminium rod to restrict it to 10rds, while also compressing the spring by that unused five-inches. If that fixes it then I know it's just a weak spring. Are these known for issues in the lifter or cartridge stop though? I can order Winchester replacements of those as well if they are known for wear.

[Mattraff]

I know from owning a Norinco that you need to be rough wiith the lever and realy make sure you cycle it all the way open. My son would not cycle it fully open at times and it would bend the soft ejector spring.

[bladeracer]

I know from owning a Norinco that you need to be rough wiith the lever and realy make sure you cycle it all the way open. My son would not cycle it fully open at times and it would bend the soft ejector spring.

Thanks Mattraff, I think things are just getting worn
I put over 1000rds through it in November, it's my usual go-to for offhand open-sight practice. I paid $550 for the rifle when it was new, and it's had more than $2000 worth of ammo through it already,
so I'm not complaining. Extraction and ejection have been fine since that glitch.

But I still can't work out what is causing rounds to not get caught in the bolt grooves. On Tuesday I had 15rds out of 100rds floating around in the action instead of riding up the bolt face on the lifter. I think it's developed a timing issue due to wear. The lower extractor pops out fine as the bolt locks, to let the cartridge rim out of the magazine. But I think the magazine cut-off must be holding the cartridge too far forward for the extractor to grab it as the bolt unlocks. The bolt opens to leave the unsecured round laying on the lifter. As the lifter starts to rise, the round falls off the lifter into the action.

I'm making a list of parts I want to replace with genuine Winchester to try to bring it back to new function.

[bladeracer]

Today the rifle started dumping two rounds into the action, one held in the bolt face, the other floating loose, and then it just started emptying the magazine into the action.

I can't see anything obviously worn, bent or broken, but perhaps the magazine cut-off lever is popping up just a little too slowly to catch the ammo. I did find some photos of a 9422 cut-off lever, and it did look a little longer than mine. Was hoping to borrow a 9422M to compare the JW21 to, but it's not currently handy. Wasn't able to work it out tonight and I don't want to starting tweaking things until I have replacements on hand, so I'll have to revert to the Henry H001 while I wait for parts. Oh well

[northdude]

Ive got a little erma la. That thing is as smooth as silk. Best and most accurate little lever ive used

[bladeracer]

Ive got a little erma la. That thing is as smooth as silk. Best and most accurate little lever ive used

The Erma is what the Henry is copied from I think, does it also have the pot-metal parts?
I don't hate the Henry but I don't get much enjoyment out of shooting it, I doubt I've put 500rds through it in the years I've had it. It looks and feels like plastic to me. When I bought it I tested it alongside the Norinco expecting it to be amazing, it wasn't, so the JW21 has been my go-to .22LR workhorse. Maybe I've worn it out

I was thinking about it last night and wondering if the two issues might both relate to the end of the cut-off being bent or broken. Perhaps the occasional round not getting caught in the bolt face might be because the round is not being supported on the cut-off once it exits the magazine? I'm inclined to play around with soldering a piece of steel to it and see if I can improve it.

I'll take the Henry out today and perhaps it'll grow on me

[northdude]

Not sure if its pot metal. Its made in germany tho. I suspect the reciever might be some type of crappy alloy

[bladeracer]

Not sure if its pot metal. Its made in germany tho. I suspect the reciever might be some type of crappy alloy

I don't think I've seen the Erma .22 levers in the flesh, but that sounds identical to the Henry. The receiver cover is pot-metal, though it does have a very nice finish. The other annoyance I have with mine is the forend moves back and forward about a millimeter, and the buttstock pivots similarly as I lift the rifle into position, then take the weight onto my left hand. Like two physical "clicks".

I took the Henry out twice today. First time I discovered that I can't focus on the front sight at all. I measured the distance from my eye to the rear sight at 300mm in a normal comfortable offhand hold. If I hold my head upright, with my eye 420mm from the rear sight then I can get the front sight into focus. Very annoying as that is not at all a comfortable or easy position when shooting offhand. I might fabricate a front sight extension to move it out 100-120mm past the muzzle and see if that works.

I put 110rds through it, and shot fairly well on the silhouettes, without bothering to check zero or accuracy beforehand.

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I thoroughly messed up the chicken, by shooting from 50m with a 40m hold! I realised as I turned to walk back to 77m when I saw the 50m tagged on the fence - I loaded as soon as I finished on the pig but forgot to walk forward to the 40m line

I finished off with a group from 100m, 77m and 50m, kneeling against a post to check the sight settings. 50m and 77m were spot on, but the 100m setting was shooting 120mm high.

I had more than 10% stovepipe when feeding, but probably related to the S&B Club I was using. It's also very waxy, requiring the rifle to be near vertical when dropping rounds into the tube. Not too upset other than the sight issue. So I went back and dug out a William's dovetail perp sight to see if an aperture might pull my focal distance back enough, but the Henry has an odd dovetail that won't fit it, bugger.

So I threw on a 40-year-old Nikko Stirling 4x32 for a bit of nostalgia Zeroed it on a fence post at 18m, then put two groups on paper st 50m to finalise it.

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I couldn't see the holes at 4-power, but I figured they'd be close enough. I went and had a look, came up another 8-clicks, and put the caps back on. Both groups were way better than they should've been for the effort I put into them

Then I shot the steels again, 15rds on each with Eley Standard. No feed issues this time. It's very rare that I've ever shot the silhouettes offhand with a scope, so that was a novelty.

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With three rounds left on the ram I suddenly realised the top of the duplex post was my sight holdover! Bugger, but better late than never

I finished the day with 10rds offhand on a 130mm gong at 15m to confirm the close zero, there have been a few rabbits around just lately.

[bladeracer]

I've put 510rds through the Henry since I broke the Norinco. Overall it's been behaving itself fairly well
I'm getting some stovepiping still, but only a couple in a 100rd session. I haven't done anything with the sights yet so I'm still using the 4-power scope. I'm not shooting as well with the scope as I'm used to with the iron sights though, which is a little odd. I had expected it would be boringly easy, especially on the turkey which is especially tough to get a good iron sight picture on. I think the ideal would be to somehow swap the sights straight across from the Norinco, if it were possible.

The Henry's trigger is horrendous though. Not really an issue out to 50m, or off a rest, but offhand or further than that it becomes glaringly apparent, especially when it's gusty. The trigger pull starts with a little pressure but becomes vague as it gets close to the break, making it extremely difficult to hold it on the edge while waiting for the sight picture. Too many times I've had it creep into breaking early or found myself having to keep squeezing way past where it should have fired. I'll have a look at it when I have it apart next week for cleaning.

But really it's a good incentive to get the Norinco sorted and back into action ASAP.

[northdude]

That looks identical to my erma. funny thing is its got one of the best triggers out of all my rifles probably due to lots of use....

[bladeracer]

That looks identical to my erma. funny thing is its got one of the best triggers out of all my rifles probably due to lots of use....

I'm close to 1000rds through her now and I think the trigger is actually worse than it was. Hopefully it's just gunked up with debris, but I'll inspect it with the 60-power loupe for any damage or roughness when I clean it. It's possibly better than one of my Mosin's, but otherwise it's probably the worst trigger I own - that Mosin has a rubber trigger I think

The action is growing on me, I think because the Norinco is so worn in now compared to this still being quite tight. I have had it fire twice without the lever being fully locked home, which is concerning, but doesn't seem to be a safety issue.

[bladeracer]

That looks identical to my erma. funny thing is its got one of the best triggers out of all my rifles probably due to lots of use....

Have you tried shooting offhand groups with it, especially at 75m or 100m? That's when you discover how good your trigger is

[northdude]

no i just mainly shoot possums with it..(we are allowed to shoot them over here)

[bladeracer]

no i just mainly shoot possums with it..(we are allowed to shoot them over here)

Yes, I know
Do you eat them?

[northdude]

No but the dog will have a munch on them every now and then. In winter some people pluck the fur I think its around $25 a kg

[bladeracer]

No but the dog will have a munch on them every now and then. In winter some people pluck the fur I think its around $25 a kg

I don't know about Kiwi possums, but I had two when I was a kid, a brushie and a ringie. The brushie, called Pos went around on my head clutching my hair with his tail hooked in one ear hole - beautiful animals Puberty sent him out into the world to make a family and he took up residence in the roof of the original dilapidated farm house. I can't recall what happened to the ringie girl, but I probably released her as well.

[northdude]

not sure how our ones compare over here. been here so long now cant even remember what they were like in aussie

[bladeracer]

2982rds into Eley Standard and had my first dud round, hit it four times to be sure but nothing.

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The scope on the Henry has come loose twice under the heavy recoil of subsonic 40gn ammo, but I'm loathe to crank down any harder on the clamps and risk crushing the pot metal. If it moves again I'll have to drill a hole through the top of the receiver cover and put a recoil stud in the bottom of one of the rings.

But the horrible Henry trigger is really driving me nuts. I start loading the trigger and it fires before it feels anywhere near, or I think I have it, give the extra tiny pressure to fire it, and find I'm still far short of the break. Yesterday and today I decided to try snatching the trigger instead, with decent results at 40m and 50m, but at 77m and 100m that does not work well for me at all. At 50m offhand I can generally keep 15rds on the 150mm gong, and at 40m I can do almost as well on the 130mm gong, but the gongs are quite a bit bigger than the pig and chicken silhouettes.

13 out of 15 on the pig today, only five on the turkey, but my second hit cut the wire holding it in place so it fell forward to 45-degrees, making it extra challenging. 10 hits on the chicken and ram was good

I don't expect to be able to get Winchester/Norinco parts this year so I'll have to battle through with the Henry.

[bladeracer]

not sure how our ones compare over here. been here so long now cant even remember what they were like in aussie

Does New Zealand have "states" or do you only have one set of laws and regulations throughout the entire country?
Are you allowed to just go and lay in a paddock for an afternoon of shooting purely for fun, or plinking? Some states here only allow shooting on private property for specific purposes, like hunting or zeroing.

[northdude]

no we don't have states we just have north and south island but same rules for both. If you have some land you can go on you can just go and shoot on it as long as it doesnt piss the neighbors off to much. We are still allowed semi auto rimfires no special conditions semi shotguns and suppressors and cross bows. There's a dumb law that your allowed an air pistol but not allowed to import one or something. We had a steal back a couple of years ago where everyone but the crims had to hand their semi centerfires in for some money to stop crims using semis. It doesn't seem to be working very well and cost s**t loads of money. We have a farm we are allowed to go on we target shoot or sometimes my mrs will want to do an afternoon of claybird shooting (she loves it) or we will shoot goats and go spotlighting for possums.

[bladeracer]

no we don't have states we just have north and south island but same rules for both. If you have some land you can go on you can just go and shoot on it as long as it doesnt piss the neighbors off to much. We are still allowed semi auto rimfires no special conditions semi shotguns and suppressors and cross bows. There's a dumb law that your allowed an air pistol but not allowed to import one or something. We had a steal back a couple of years ago where everyone but the crims had to hand their semi centerfires in for some money to stop crims using semis. It doesn't seem to be working very well and cost s**t loads of money. We have a farm we are allowed to go on we target shoot or sometimes my mrs will want to do an afternoon of claybird shooting (she loves it) or we will shoot goats and go spotlighting for possums.

Sounds a lot like Victoria then. Are deer the same as here (shoot as many as we want whenever we feel like it) or do you have tag limits and seasons?

[northdude]

no you can shoot as many as you like any time. We can also own as many firearms as we like for our a cat ones which is basically sporting rifles and shotguns. we don't need to apply for permits to buy them either just walk into gun shop pay and walk out with it. they do record it in a book with your fal details tho. we can also privately sell firearms to each other you just need to sight a valid fal no need to record it or go through a dealer or anything. stupid thing here is you need to show a fal to buy live ammunition but you don't need one to buy all the components to make your own which to me is pretty dumb as a firearm is useless without ammo..

[bladeracer]

no you can shoot as many as you like any time. We can also own as many firearms as we like for our a cat ones which is basically sporting rifles and shotguns. we don't need to apply for permits to buy them either just walk into gun shop pay and walk out with it. they do record it in a book with your fal details tho. we can also privately sell firearms to each other you just need to sight a valid fal no need to record it or go through a dealer or anything. stupid thing here is you need to show a fal to buy live ammunition but you don't need one to buy all the components to make your own which to me is pretty dumb as a firearm is useless without ammo..

Sounds pretty reasonable and not quite as bad as I've heard. Only limit on number of firearms here is the financial investment and having sufficient secure storage room for them. CatC (semi-auto rimfire rifles and semi/pump guns) is the only category that's restricted, you can only own one of each.
I assume handguns are like here, club use only?

It sounds pretty good over there. Where have you lived in Australia?

[northdude]

Yep pistols are club or you can own them on a collectors licence but not allowed to fire it. Can still own ar etc semis on a collectors or pest control or lic i think. Used to be able to own them on a a cat licence as long as you only had a 10 round mag and thumb hole type stock. I lived in nw nsw a very long time ago now. We had a farm and didnt need a firearms licence so thats how long ago it was

[northdude]

Do you guys even need a permit to buy a scope?

[bladeracer]

Do you guys even need a permit to buy a scope?

Not for scopes, no. Some states require a licence to buy things like mags and barrels, but not here in Victoria. Qld requires a permit to acquire just to buy a 12ga chamber adaptor. Down here only the receiver is considered a firearm. If you hand a firearm in for destruction they only need the receiver, we can keep everything else. I think some states you can't own a spare barrel unless it's serialised and registered. In WA, to possess a bullet or case, you need to have a firearm listed on your licence that uses that specific component. It is illegal to possess an empty .223Rem case if you don't have a .223Rem firearm listed on your licence. In WA you also can't borrow a firearm unless you first co-licence it to have it listed on your licence, which I think also requires a PtA, which costs a heap of money there. PtA's here in Victoria cost $10 and usually are approved within hours, although that seems to have slowed down to a few days during Covid. WA also doesn't allow collectors to ever use their firearms, all other states allow occasional use at pre-approved Collector Club shoots. If I owned a relatively common conventional rifle, like my Lithgow model 1 single-shot .22LR on a collectors licence, if I want to take it up the paddock for some plinking, or take it to a range to shoot some targets, I first need to transfer it off my collectors licence onto my CatA licence, including a PtA and going through my dealer. That's why I don't have a collectors licence. Most other states also charge a fee for a B709 import permit (required to import firearms and some major parts, like mags, barrels, triggers, and ammunition components), here in Vic B709's are free.

WA is the California of Australia, with firearm laws to match. NSW is second worst.

[northdude]

Geeze anyone can have any kind of empty case here.

[bladeracer]

Geeze anyone can have any kind of empty case here.

Yep, same as most states here. We're allowed to possess any ammunition (brass and bullets aren't regulated at all, anybody can possess those) for a category of firearm we're licenced for, and the most basic CatA/B licence includes virtually any kind of ammunition you can think of. So if I borrow a rifle off a friend I'm allowed to own ammo for it. If you only had a CatA licence then you can only possess CatA ammo (rimfire and shotgun), not centrefire rifle or pistol ammo. Some states even exclude rimfires like .17HMR from CatA I think.

WA law prohibits possessing ammunition components without a licence, but the law classes components as the parts that are expelled from a firearm so should not include brass, but WA makes up their own laws.

[northdude]

How about projetiles. My daughter has a necklace with a projectile on it how would you go with that

[bladeracer]

How about projetiles. My daughter has a necklace with a projectile on it how would you go with that

If the projectile is a bullet then it needs to be modified in some way to no longer be a bullet, say a hole drilled through it. I don't think the WA law encompasses all generic objects that might be used as projectiles, like slugs, pellets, wads, sabots and such, but being WA they don't seem to restrict themselves to actual laws. In all states except WA, bullets, pellets, slugs and brass are just unregulated pieces of metal.