Canada to ban sale of handguns

News and events in the media and political arena relating to firearms.

Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by bladeracer » 07 Jun 2022, 5:40 pm

cz515 wrote:Yes let's remove the firearms, or just have some more restrictions related to unlicensed people having access to fitearms, including safe storage.

That's pretty reasonable and will effects a lot of gun violence. Will not bring it to zero, and no one says it can be done anyway


Now you're making sense, we need to focus on keeping firearms out of the hands of those with evil intent, or we would if public safety was the actual driving force behind these laws...
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by bullzeye » 07 Jun 2022, 6:08 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bullzeye wrote:Any chance you could post your stats that support your argument?


I just told you how meaningless statistics are.
Why don't you explain your reasoning as to how you figure the public will be safer by you giving up your access to firearms?


So every statistic out there is meaningless? That's a terribly short sighted view. I'd genuinely like to see your facts and figures to prove your point, even if you skew the stats for your own argument, I'd like to hear the other side of the story. After 10,000 posts on this forum I would have thought someone like you can backup your statements, but it seems not to be the case.

I have looked up the figures for gun homicides between Australia and USA and spent some time reading into it - to better understand the topic. It's been interesting and of course somewhat concerning - but we already knew that.

As I mentioned before: Guns were No. 1 killer of children and adolescents in 2020, CDC data shows https://abcnews.go.com/Health/guns-killer-children-adolescents-2020-cdc-data-shows/story?id=84249874

What kind of society accepts this? Not many.

I wasn't saying people in Australia need to give up their guns, I was suggesting it's too easy in America for anyone to buy a gun - including mentally ill people/ criminals etc through private sales. There are also no safe storage requirements which leads to a lot of accidental deaths.

womble wrote:Canada is 2.05 per capita.
And yet they want to enact a handgun ban.
Umm why ?

Population roughly 40 million, 277 homicides by firearms 2020


Canada is interesting to look at. As far as I understand they have similar gun laws to Australia - only allowed for license holders, safe storage, genuine reasons etc. The handgun ban does seem unnecessary - they don't have a high rate of gun violence like the US.

Actual Canadian population in 2020 was approx 38 million and they had 277 firearm homicides = 7.2 firearm homicides per 1 million people.

However I would expect it is much easier to get your hands on a gun illegally in Canada compared to Australia, as they would have lots of guns smuggled over the US border.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by Oldbloke » 07 Jun 2022, 8:53 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bullzeye wrote:Any chance you could post your stats that support your argument?


I just told you how meaningless statistics are.
Why don't you explain your reasoning as to how you figure the public will be safer by you giving up your access to firearms?


Lol.
Funny coming from someone who has been quoting various stat's since the start of the topic.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by bladeracer » 07 Jun 2022, 9:39 pm

Oldbloke wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
bullzeye wrote:Any chance you could post your stats that support your argument?


I just told you how meaningless statistics are.
Why don't you explain your reasoning as to how you figure the public will be safer by you giving up your access to firearms?


Lol.
Funny coming from someone who has been quoting various stat's since the start of the topic.
:allegedly: :violin:


I work in actual numbers, not numbers extrapolated from statistical calculation.
797 people murdered in Chicago is an _actual_ number, not a percentage of the population, and not compared to populations in different socio-economic or cultural and legal environments, and not diluted by including data from regions that have little data to add. Trying to skew data by including the vast majority of both countries that have likely _never_ seen a homicide this century helps nobody. The violence is contained in small enclaves in all countries, leave the rest of the country out of it you want to find the causes, and attempt to fix them. If your only goal is to continue to push gun-control as the only answer worth looking at stick with your statistics.

How many kids were in the Texas school that were not killed or injured? With a bit of effort I'm sure you could invent a statistical analysis to prove that those kids in the school were probably safer that the kids living in Chicago - it all depends on which agenda you want your stats to push.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by wanneroo » 08 Jun 2022, 12:02 pm

Bladeracer has been very well spoken with his posts and is right on the money.

I see a lot of people comparing Australia with the USA. It's like comparing Australia with the continent of Europe from Ireland to Russia and all points in between. It's apples and oranges. The USA including illegal aliens running around is 350 million people and 50 individual states with their own laws and many major metro areas.

It's true that in the past two years the USA has seen a dramatic increase in violent crime and we have a few things going on causing issues.

One of which is left wing run cities with radical district attorneys who were funded into office to the tune of tens of millions by George Soros and former NYC mayor Bloomberg. There is a huge "decriminalization" push in these democrat run cities where criminals are given light or no sentences and many crimes "decriminalized", so literally there are mobs running wild in places like San Francisco and Chicago.

The other big problem is the democrats under obama and biden have thrown open the US border to illegals. I just heard from the Border Patrol they are seizing 18000 illegals A DAY with many thousands not caught. Most of these people are coming from violent conflicts and bring them here to the USA. Imagine in Australia if you had even a faction of this pouring into Australia every single day. Trump was bringing a lot of the border under control and fully backing the Border Patrol, but now the door is wide open again. The US government is flying these illegals everywhere and dumping them in random towns all over the USA.

Drugs are another big issue. China floods the USA with fentanyl and since the border is wide open it flows like water.

At the same time under the weight of this people are telling us law abiding folk we need to give up our guns. Uh how about a NO. It's safe around here because we all got AR-15s.

Keep in mind how violent Mexico is, they've got one legal gun store in the whole country and that's it.

In the past week more and more has come out about the Uvalde school killings in regards to law enforcement and it's sleazy. In fact the shooter was about to be engaged outside by a civilian with a gun and the civilian was stopped by the Police and then the police did nothing. Again people tell us, disarm, let the government handle it, but the government didn't handle it, they let it happen.

You will never ever convince me that more stupid rules like you can't have a grip on this, or this type of scope, or that size of magazine or this caliber or that caliber makes one damn bit of difference. Bad guys don't care, they will use trucks, knives, fire, whatever. We already have 30000 firearms laws on the books in the USA and the ones we have are often not enforced, so enough.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by Gamerancher » 08 Jun 2022, 12:09 pm

Well said ol' mate.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by wanneroo » 08 Jun 2022, 12:29 pm

womble wrote:That rectangle of generational gang violence goes back to the 1920,s .just an ongoing saga where they can never really broker peace.
Easy to access guns from Michigan.
Where there’s poverty theres drugs, where there’s drugs theres guns.
1 in 5 Chicago residents live in poverty.
Not so hard to explain Chicago.
Nevertheless Illinois dose’nt fare so badly overall considering. Credit where it’s due.https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm
Click on death rate per capita and Illinois dose’nt even make the top 12.
The link between wealthy real estate and poverty stricken areas is starkly obvious.
And your southern white trailer trash is easily outgunning your African American gangs.
Loss of industry and jobs, the crystal meth and subsequent opiate epidemics that tore through the southern states. Poverty and the stresses to survive, dose’nt discriminate.


I've been to Chicago many times. There are plenty of opportunities to make money in the Chicago area and either become wealthy or live a middle class lifestyle there in the suburbs.

The problem with Chicago is the Democratic Party. There are strict gun laws in the city, so people have a harder time defending themselves. The city does a poor job prosecuting crime breakers. And the party supports a welfare state so it pays people to sit at home and do nothing, who often of course get into trouble.

My theory from what I have seen in cities like this Chicago and Camden, NJ, Detroit, Oakland and other places is that it's really just one big grift and skim by the Democrats and they don't want the problem solved because that ends the grift. As it stands with drug fueled crime, it supports a huge infrastructure of police, lawyers, drug rehab people, jails, hospitals, government bureaucrats, judges, etc. In the end, they live in gated wealthy communities or in the suburbs and get rich off the street urchins doing themselves in.

In the 1990s after we had a growth in violent crime, crime rates plummeted as many began enforcing "three strikes and your out" which meant convicted of violent crime 3 times and you went for life in prison. Plus many communities and states began loosening restrictions on citizens carrying and using firearms for personal defense.

Now however that has changed and many crimes are not prosecuted or criminals are let off with light sentences and little repercussions and well golly gee whiz, surprise, surprise, we now got a lot of these cities racked with crime.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by Oldbloke » 08 Jun 2022, 1:18 pm

"So every (some) statistic out there is meaningless?"

Yep, but just the ones he doesn't like. Lol

To cherry pick 1 or 2 cities is meaningless. You must look at rates to do a fair comparison.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by bullzeye » 08 Jun 2022, 7:22 pm

wanneroo wrote:Bladeracer has been very well spoken with his posts and is right on the money.

I see a lot of people comparing Australia with the USA. It's like comparing Australia with the continent of Europe from Ireland to Russia and all points in between. It's apples and oranges. The USA including illegal aliens running around is 350 million people and 50 individual states with their own laws and many major metro areas.

It's true that in the past two years the USA has seen a dramatic increase in violent crime and we have a few things going on causing issues.

One of which is left wing run cities with radical district attorneys who were funded into office to the tune of tens of millions by George Soros and former NYC mayor Bloomberg. There is a huge "decriminalization" push in these democrat run cities where criminals are given light or no sentences and many crimes "decriminalized", so literally there are mobs running wild in places like San Francisco and Chicago.

The other big problem is the democrats under obama and biden have thrown open the US border to illegals. I just heard from the Border Patrol they are seizing 18000 illegals A DAY with many thousands not caught. Most of these people are coming from violent conflicts and bring them here to the USA. Imagine in Australia if you had even a faction of this pouring into Australia every single day. Trump was bringing a lot of the border under control and fully backing the Border Patrol, but now the door is wide open again. The US government is flying these illegals everywhere and dumping them in random towns all over the USA.

Drugs are another big issue. China floods the USA with fentanyl and since the border is wide open it flows like water.

At the same time under the weight of this people are telling us law abiding folk we need to give up our guns. Uh how about a NO. It's safe around here because we all got AR-15s.

Keep in mind how violent Mexico is, they've got one legal gun store in the whole country and that's it.

In the past week more and more has come out about the Uvalde school killings in regards to law enforcement and it's sleazy. In fact the shooter was about to be engaged outside by a civilian with a gun and the civilian was stopped by the Police and then the police did nothing. Again people tell us, disarm, let the government handle it, but the government didn't handle it, they let it happen.

You will never ever convince me that more stupid rules like you can't have a grip on this, or this type of scope, or that size of magazine or this caliber or that caliber makes one damn bit of difference. Bad guys don't care, they will use trucks, knives, fire, whatever. We already have 30000 firearms laws on the books in the USA and the ones we have are often not enforced, so enough.


All you’ve done here is make excuses for high gun crime in America. Just because the problem is hard to solve doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try.

The USA has had a free for all on guns for over 200 years. There is no going back on the amount of guns in circulation. But allowing mentally ill and criminals such easy access to purchase guns privately will unfortunately mean these tragedies keep occurring.

Don’t these kids in schools deserve better than people accepting these shootings as part of life in America? Don’t you think it’s worth trying to tackle the problem?
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by geoff » 08 Jun 2022, 8:35 pm

bladeracer wrote:
Oldbloke wrote:
bladeracer wrote:
bullzeye wrote:Any chance you could post your stats that support your argument?


I just told you how meaningless statistics are.
Why don't you explain your reasoning as to how you figure the public will be safer by you giving up your access to firearms?


Lol.
Funny coming from someone who has been quoting various stat's since the start of the topic.
:allegedly: :violin:


I work in actual numbers, not numbers extrapolated from statistical calculation.
797 people murdered in Chicago is an _actual_ number, not a percentage of the population, and not compared to populations in different socio-economic or cultural and legal environments, and not diluted by including data from regions that have little data to add. Trying to skew data by including the vast majority of both countries that have likely _never_ seen a homicide this century helps nobody. The violence is contained in small enclaves in all countries, leave the rest of the country out of it you want to find the causes, and attempt to fix them. If your only goal is to continue to push gun-control as the only answer worth looking at stick with your statistics.

How many kids were in the Texas school that were not killed or injured? With a bit of effort I'm sure you could invent a statistical analysis to prove that those kids in the school were probably safer that the kids living in Chicago - it all depends on which agenda you want your stats to push.


lmao blade that has gotta be one of the stupidest comments in this thread. Tell me you don't understand population statistics without saying you don't understand population statistics.

I audibly laughed at this comment. You won't discuss a per capita rate because it doesn't suit your agenda, despite being objectively the best way to compare raw numbers from country to country, area to area and population to population. Just constantly parroting your 797 number or the kilometre perimeter of Chicago doesn't make a good point - it just makes it clear that you don't want to get into the weeds, only surface level feel good discussion.

Americans murder each other with firearms at an astonishing rate compared to the rest of the global north/developed world/western hemisphere/whatever PC term you want to use. That's an inescapable fact and you E done nothing but try to escape it.

If you live in the US, you are considerably more likely to die in a manner which involves the discharge of a firearm than you would be if you lived in Australia. That's it. That's the stat.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by bladeracer » 08 Jun 2022, 8:35 pm

Oldbloke wrote:"So every (some) statistic out there is meaningless?"

Yep, but just the ones he doesn't like. Lol

To cherry pick 1 or 2 cities is meaningless. You must look at rates to do a fair comparison.


I discount statistics that are clearly aimed at pushing a specific agenda as being fact when it is not.

Okay then, but build your "rates" out of comparable data. Don't use the entire population of the US to fuel your agenda when 99% of that population is totally uninvolved in the issue. The issue occurs in small areas, just like here, and the issues causing the violence are very likely different in different areas, thus they require different solutions. You want to include the entire US so you can claim it is a US issue, it is not. It's the same violence as other regions throughout the world.

Bullzeye believes getting law-abiding people in the US to give up their firearms will fix this issue. When I asked him why he believes giving up his firearms will make his community safer he came back with the expected "Oh, I don't mean me, I mean other people should give up their firearms." If his lawfully owned and used firearms are no threat to the community why are everybody else's?
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by bladeracer » 08 Jun 2022, 8:39 pm

bullzeye wrote:All you’ve done here is make excuses for high gun crime in America. Just because the problem is hard to solve doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try.

The USA has had a free for all on guns for over 200 years. There is no going back on the amount of guns in circulation. But allowing mentally ill and criminals such easy access to purchase guns privately will unfortunately mean these tragedies keep occurring.

Don’t these kids in schools deserve better than people accepting these shootings as part of life in America? Don’t you think it’s worth trying to tackle the problem?


I certainly believe in not only tackling the problem, but fixing it. But we will never fix it while people like you keep changing the direction of the discussion to gun control instead of the causes of the violence. The gun control argument will never go anywhere because it is driven by emotion and not logic. The violence is there, remove all lawful access to firearm and the violence continues, including with firearms - it fixes nothing. Take the violent people away and the violence goes with them. Clearly the issue is the people. The violence is not happening because firearms exist.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by bullzeye » 08 Jun 2022, 10:02 pm

bladeracer wrote:Bullzeye believes getting law-abiding people in the US to give up their firearms will fix this issue. When I asked him why he believes giving up his firearms will make his community safer he came back with the expected "Oh, I don't mean me, I mean other people should give up their firearms." If his lawfully owned and used firearms are no threat to the community why are everybody else's?


Where did I say law abiding people in the US need to give up their firearms?

I didn’t.

I compared the stats of each country and have made the comment it’s too easy to buy a gun in the US with zero checks on the person who is buying the gun.

I also showed an article that firearms are the #1 cause of death for kids and teens in the US, according to the CDC.

You’ve made a whole bunch of baseless claims in this thread with no data to support your viewpoint. Of course - you’re entitled to do that if you wish.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by wanneroo » 09 Jun 2022, 12:13 am

bullzeye wrote:
All you’ve done here is make excuses for high gun crime in America. Just because the problem is hard to solve doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try.

The USA has had a free for all on guns for over 200 years. There is no going back on the amount of guns in circulation. But allowing mentally ill and criminals such easy access to purchase guns privately will unfortunately mean these tragedies keep occurring.

Don’t these kids in schools deserve better than people accepting these shootings as part of life in America? Don’t you think it’s worth trying to tackle the problem?


We've banged on this before so I will try one more time. I've already been through all the rules and steps, I'm not sure much else I can do to explain it to you properly. Private in state sales are a very small portion of gun sales and have never been statistically proven to be a source of illegal firearms. Understand there are rules around private sales and you cannot sell to criminals or mentally ill people. Vast majority of people selling a firearm privately do it through an FFL.

The shooter in Texas did not obtain his firearm through a private sale.

It's not easy for criminals and mentally ill to purchase guns and it's illegal for certain people to possess them. It's a five year prison sentence if they are prosecuted and found guilty.

Will criminals do what criminals do and seek to obtain them illegally or possess them illegally? Yes and in that case they need to be prosecuted for it. But often they are not. If the government refuses to prosecute criminals and mentally ill who do attempt to purchase or possess firearms, putting more laws and restrictions on law abiding citizens DOES NOT FIX THE PROBLEM.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by wanneroo » 09 Jun 2022, 12:17 am

geoff wrote:lmao blade that has gotta be one of the stupidest comments in this thread. Tell me you don't understand population statistics without saying you don't understand population statistics.

I audibly laughed at this comment. You won't discuss a per capita rate because it doesn't suit your agenda, despite being objectively the best way to compare raw numbers from country to country, area to area and population to population. Just constantly parroting your 797 number or the kilometre perimeter of Chicago doesn't make a good point - it just makes it clear that you don't want to get into the weeds, only surface level feel good discussion.

Americans murder each other with firearms at an astonishing rate compared to the rest of the global north/developed world/western hemisphere/whatever PC term you want to use. That's an inescapable fact and you E done nothing but try to escape it.

If you live in the US, you are considerably more likely to die in a manner which involves the discharge of a firearm than you would be if you lived in Australia. That's it. That's the stat.


As I just pointed out, comparing Australia to the USA is like comparing Australia to the European continent. We have 50 individual states and 350 million people. Most of the USA is some of the safest in the world. If you want problems go to a Democratic Party run city.

It's so bad in San Francisco that the voters yesterday threw out a Marxist Soros backed District Attorney in a recall vote:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/san ... ecall-vote

These are the sorts of problems that need to be fixed.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by wanneroo » 09 Jun 2022, 12:34 am

bladeracer wrote:I certainly believe in not only tackling the problem, but fixing it. But we will never fix it while people like you keep changing the direction of the discussion to gun control instead of the causes of the violence. The gun control argument will never go anywhere because it is driven by emotion and not logic. The violence is there, remove all lawful access to firearm and the violence continues, including with firearms - it fixes nothing. Take the violent people away and the violence goes with them. Clearly the issue is the people. The violence is not happening because firearms exist.


Correct.

In the end as I have found, people really do not want to solve core issues and problems in most situations. Rather they just want to blanket everything with more bureaucrats and more rules and laws and then when that doesn't work, blame the people not responsible and demand more bureaucracy and more rules and laws. These are people obsessed with the process but not the results.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by cz515 » 09 Jun 2022, 1:47 am

And very conveniently put it into democrats lap.

As if there were no illegals, no gun crime, no drug problem during Trump... and before Obama.

And while there Trump was also responsible for separation of parents from their children, tens of thousands, if not hundreds. And children as young as under 12 months... many of whine never got United because no records were kept.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by wanneroo » 09 Jun 2022, 2:40 am

If they had universal background checks on cars, stricter licensing requirements and gasoline limits this tragedy would not have happened:

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... lin-church
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by wanneroo » 09 Jun 2022, 2:43 am

cz515 wrote:And very conveniently put it into democrats lap.

As if there were no illegals, no gun crime, no drug problem during Trump... and before Obama.

And while there Trump was also responsible for separation of parents from their children, tens of thousands, if not hundreds. And children as young as under 12 months... many of whine never got United because no records were kept.


These are problems that go back decades and Trump was one of the few in recent times to address the issue and he did quite well despite democrats trying to stop him.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by bigrich » 09 Jun 2022, 4:58 am

Lots of good points, facts and opinions on this topic. And a lot of political arguments over democrats and republicans and who does what.
The problem in America is one of a cultural mindset with halfwits going and shooting innocent citizens cause they want to make some stupid statement , which they know will result in their own death by cop . Laws have to change in some way or this problem will just continue. As to how they change is up to American citizens imho .
Canada doesn’t appear to have the same problem, and a large caliber handgun is a reasonable thing to have as some people in rural areas have been attacked by bear when mowing the lawn. Even well into the 1930’s bandido’s would raid into the Mexico border regions of the USA . Which is still a dangerous region today. It’s a complicated argument any which way you look at it . Banning handguns in Canada to me , when they don’t appear to have the shooter problem America has , seems like political point scoring to me. Jacinda adhern has been giving speeches in American university to applause on how she acted over the mosque shooting in NZ . From what I’ve heard, very few semi auto’s in NZ were handed in . As there’s no registration of these they don’t even know how many or who has them. Trying to ban handguns or assault rifles in the US or Canada is impossible. I don’t know what the solution is .
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by bullzeye » 09 Jun 2022, 8:17 am

wanneroo wrote:
bullzeye wrote:
All you’ve done here is make excuses for high gun crime in America. Just because the problem is hard to solve doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try.

The USA has had a free for all on guns for over 200 years. There is no going back on the amount of guns in circulation. But allowing mentally ill and criminals such easy access to purchase guns privately will unfortunately mean these tragedies keep occurring.

Don’t these kids in schools deserve better than people accepting these shootings as part of life in America? Don’t you think it’s worth trying to tackle the problem?


We've banged on this before so I will try one more time. I've already been through all the rules and steps, I'm not sure much else I can do to explain it to you properly. Private in state sales are a very small portion of gun sales and have never been statistically proven to be a source of illegal firearms. Understand there are rules around private sales and you cannot sell to criminals or mentally ill people. Vast majority of people selling a firearm privately do it through an FFL.

The shooter in Texas did not obtain his firearm through a private sale.

It's not easy for criminals and mentally ill to purchase guns and it's illegal for certain people to possess them. It's a five year prison sentence if they are prosecuted and found guilty.

Will criminals do what criminals do and seek to obtain them illegally or possess them illegally? Yes and in that case they need to be prosecuted for it. But often they are not. If the government refuses to prosecute criminals and mentally ill who do attempt to purchase or possess firearms, putting more laws and restrictions on law abiding citizens DOES NOT FIX THE PROBLEM.


I understand what you are saying about private sales. But I'm sure a lot of people bend the rules and the sheer number of guns in circulation make it a 'free for all' basically.

Don't you think it's a problem when someone with no criminal record and no previously reported mental illness can go by an AR-15 - passes the background check - then shoots up a school a few days later?

What is the solution to fix this problem? Because it seems to keep happening. Or do we just accept this as part of life in America?
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by on_one_wheel » 09 Jun 2022, 10:16 am

Look at our wonderful gun laws at work ... another drive by shooting, this time in Brisbane. Last week it was a police station on the Gold Coast.
Last weekend it was a random shooting at Coolangatta.
2 week ago some bloke was shot in Melbourne.
2 blokes riddled with bullet holes last month.
many more random shootings.
If it wasn't for our great laws, someone might have died.... wait, oh... some did, but if it wasn't for our laws they'd probably have died worse.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by bigrich » 09 Jun 2022, 11:38 am

on_one_wheel wrote:Look at our wonderful gun laws at work ... another drive by shooting, this time in Brisbane. Last week it was a police station on the Gold Coast.
Last weekend it was a random shooting at Coolangatta.
2 week ago some bloke was shot in Melbourne.
2 blokes riddled with bullet holes last month.
many more random shootings.
If it wasn't for our great laws, someone might have died.... wait, oh... some did, but if it wasn't for our laws they'd probably have died worse.


I believe all those shootings were gang/criminal related. That sort of stuff is bad enough I wouldn’t want some of the bogan halfwits around getting easier gun access. Maybe they’d copy the yanks...... :roll:
I thought this topic was about Canada and handguns?
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by bladeracer » 09 Jun 2022, 12:01 pm

bullzeye wrote:I compared the stats of each country and have made the comment it’s too easy to buy a gun in the US with zero checks on the person who is buying the gun.


As has been explained to you already, anybody legally buying a firearm in the US already has background checks. People buying firearms illegally have no background checks, the same as everywhere else in the world. The laws you want already exist throughout the US. What laws are you suggesting would've stopped this kid from lawfully buying firearms and not killing people when that is all he wanted to do? Keeping in mind, he already knew he wanted to kill a bunch of kids, so what law do you propose - that he would've obeyed - would have prevented this?
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by bladeracer » 09 Jun 2022, 12:09 pm

bullzeye wrote:Don't you think it's a problem when someone with no criminal record and no previously reported mental illness can go by an AR-15 - passes the background check - then shoots up a school a few days later?

What is the solution to fix this problem? Because it seems to keep happening. Or do we just accept this as part of life in America?


If somebody has no criminal history, no history of violence, no history of mental illness, is the problem that he can, and should, be legally allowed to own firearm?
Or is the problem that none of the people that have known and associated with the person and seen his increasingly erratic behaviour over years have bothered to help him in any way? If just one person in the community cared when they saw somebody struggling, had stepped in and offered some help or advice, or suggested he see a doctor, or told the authorities they were concerned about him, perhaps this kid might've lived another eighty-years without ever harming anybody...
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by bladeracer » 09 Jun 2022, 12:12 pm

on_one_wheel wrote:Look at our wonderful gun laws at work ... another drive by shooting, this time in Brisbane. Last week it was a police station on the Gold Coast.
Last weekend it was a random shooting at Coolangatta.
2 week ago some bloke was shot in Melbourne.
2 blokes riddled with bullet holes last month.
many more random shootings.
If it wasn't for our great laws, someone might have died.... wait, oh... some did, but if it wasn't for our laws they'd probably have died worse.


I mentioned the gun crime we saw last month here in Australia in a conversation with an American that was spruiking our magic gun laws on Facebook. Apparently we have no gun violence because our wonderful government took all our firearms.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by Oldbloke » 09 Jun 2022, 12:39 pm

Well,,, it seems if US continues to do what they always have in no time at all they will have no more firearm deaths. :sarcasm: :allegedly:
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by bladeracer » 09 Jun 2022, 1:04 pm

Oldbloke wrote:Well,,, it seems if US continues to do what they always have in no time at all they will have no more firearm deaths. :sarcasm: :allegedly:


Law-abiding firearm owners already outnumber the bad guys many, many times over. Eventually the bad guy attempts to harm somebody able to protect themselves and is no longer a threat to anybody.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by bladeracer » 09 Jun 2022, 1:07 pm

They can prevent 800 murders next year in Chicago by simply moving _all_ of the residents to Adelaide. Chicago will be the safest place in the world, but Adelaide will be in flames.
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Re: Canada to ban sale of handguns

Post by bullzeye » 09 Jun 2022, 3:31 pm

bladeracer wrote:
bullzeye wrote:I compared the stats of each country and have made the comment it’s too easy to buy a gun in the US with zero checks on the person who is buying the gun.


As has been explained to you already, anybody legally buying a firearm in the US already has background checks. People buying firearms illegally have no background checks, the same as everywhere else in the world. The laws you want already exist throughout the US. What laws are you suggesting would've stopped this kid from lawfully buying firearms and not killing people when that is all he wanted to do? Keeping in mind, he already knew he wanted to kill a bunch of kids, so what law do you propose - that he would've obeyed - would have prevented this?


Not everyone has to do a background check in the US, you understand private sales in many states do not require a background check?

I haven't made any suggestions for any additional laws they should consider. I've simply stated the facts and figures and how different they are to Australia. I'm thinking the most most reasonable step to ensure safety of students is dedicated armed police/ security that sit at every single kinger garden/ pre-school/ junior school/ high school/ college and university.

The issue is worth discussing when kids are getting killed at schools time and time again. In Chicago as I'm sure you know it's a lot of gang on gang shootings. But something has to be done to stop a random person walking into a school with an AR-15.

bladeracer wrote:
bullzeye wrote:Don't you think it's a problem when someone with no criminal record and no previously reported mental illness can go by an AR-15 - passes the background check - then shoots up a school a few days later?

What is the solution to fix this problem? Because it seems to keep happening. Or do we just accept this as part of life in America?


If somebody has no criminal history, no history of violence, no history of mental illness, is the problem that he can, and should, be legally allowed to own firearm?
Or is the problem that none of the people that have known and associated with the person and seen his increasingly erratic behaviour over years have bothered to help him in any way? If just one person in the community cared when they saw somebody struggling, had stepped in and offered some help or advice, or suggested he see a doctor, or told the authorities they were concerned about him, perhaps this kid might've lived another eighty-years without ever harming anybody...


I think the issue is more someone can 'seem fine' their whole life and not show any signs of a troubled mind, go and purchase firearms legally, then in a matter of seconds destroy far too many lives. I've never suggested hindering LAFOs but surely there is a section of the population that 'seem fine to everyone' but actually aren't. I'm trying to think - how do we stop these kind of people from getting firearms? At the moment there is no way and as a result these tragedies will keep happening.

As the NRA has said numerous times, having armed security at every educational institution may be the only workable/quicker solution without introducing gun restriction laws.
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