Webley R.I.C. .442 CF

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Webley R.I.C. .442 CF

Post by queeg730 » 23 Sep 2022, 3:45 pm

Hi folks,
Does anyone know where I could get some ammunition for this old gun?
Must say.... I don't like my chances with such an old and odd-ball calibre.

Even brass cases would be better than what I have now (i.e. nothing ;) )
Then there is the problem of molds and dies. None of those either.
Closest thing I have is .45 ACP molds, way too big..... :problem:

I obviously wouldn't be shooting this R.I.C. very much at all due to its age, but still, it would be nice to get a few rounds out of it.

thanks to anyone who may have any ideas on this,

Mike
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Re: Webley R.I.C. .442 CF

Post by Noisydad » 23 Sep 2022, 3:55 pm

Shortened.44mag cases and dies will work along with .44-40 bullets sized to suit.
There's still a few of Wile. E Coyote's ideas that I haven't tried yet.
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Re: Webley R.I.C. .442 CF

Post by bladeracer » 23 Sep 2022, 5:05 pm

queeg730 wrote:Hi folks,
Does anyone know where I could get some ammunition for this old gun?
Must say.... I don't like my chances with such an old and odd-ball calibre.

Even brass cases would be better than what I have now (i.e. nothing ;) )
Then there is the problem of molds and dies. None of those either.
Closest thing I have is .45 ACP molds, way too big..... :problem:

I obviously wouldn't be shooting this R.I.C. very much at all due to its age, but still, it would be nice to get a few rounds out of it.

thanks to anyone who may have any ideas on this,

Mike


As Noisy mentioned, .44Mag brass.
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Bullet mould will come to slugging the bore and ordering or making a mould .002" larger than the slug.
If you have a.45 mould with deep lube grooves you might be able to size them down to the size you need and tumble-lube them.
You might need to size the neck down to hold the bullet, but you can bore an under-size hole through a 7/8"-14tpi bolt and hone it out to the size you need to swage the neck down.
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Re: Webley R.I.C. .442 CF

Post by No1Mk3 » 23 Sep 2022, 5:38 pm

G'day mate,
44 Webley is currently $35 a cartridge, not suitable to shoot as no guarantee it will fire. Making ammo from 44Mag or 44Spl is the cheap option as brass is $4 each last time I checked. I load HRBC 44 cal 200g RN FP with 16g of 3F, the 44 bullet is .002 larger at .429 than the 44-40 bullet at .427 but it won't make much difference. Proper size is .436 so you could bump up a lead bullet or order a correct size mould from CBE, but as I only shoot mine a couple of times a year I just use the HRBC bullets I buy for another cartridge, Cheers.
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Re: Webley R.I.C. .442 CF

Post by queeg730 » 23 Sep 2022, 6:52 pm

Folks,
You are fantastic!!!!!!!
Thank you all for your help. I will look into the .44 Mag brass and see what I can do about projectiles.

Such great information here.... and the willingness to share it.
I can only say, thanks again to you all!

Mike
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Re: Webley R.I.C. .442 CF

Post by mchughcb » 01 May 2024, 9:54 pm

I made a few inquiries yesterday.

1. Bruce Betram has brass available so you can just buy the correct brass.
2. I spoke to Les at HRBC. He said to slug the bore and give him the measurements. He can then copper wash the 200gr a few times to get the diameter up to 0.436.
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Re: Webley R.I.C. .442 CF

Post by mchughcb » 01 May 2024, 9:55 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:G'day mate,
44 Webley is currently $35 a cartridge, not suitable to shoot as no guarantee it will fire. Making ammo from 44Mag or 44Spl is the cheap option as brass is $4 each last time I checked. I load HRBC 44 cal 200g RN FP with 16g of 3F, the 44 bullet is .002 larger at .429 than the 44-40 bullet at .427 but it won't make much difference. Proper size is .436 so you could bump up a lead bullet or order a correct size mould from CBE, but as I only shoot mine a couple of times a year I just use the HRBC bullets I buy for another cartridge, Cheers.


Did you ever put them over a chrony?
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Re: Webley R.I.C. .442 CF

Post by Faedy » 01 May 2024, 11:18 pm

I actually had to hand in some Webley 455 mkII ammo today from a homicide scene - never heard of it prior.
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Re: Webley R.I.C. .442 CF

Post by No1Mk3 » 02 May 2024, 4:29 pm

mchughcb wrote:
No1Mk3 wrote:G'day mate,
44 Webley is currently $35 a cartridge, not suitable to shoot as no guarantee it will fire. Making ammo from 44Mag or 44Spl is the cheap option as brass is $4 each last time I checked. I load HRBC 44 cal 200g RN FP with 16g of 3F, the 44 bullet is .002 larger at .429 than the 44-40 bullet at .427 but it won't make much difference. Proper size is .436 so you could bump up a lead bullet or order a correct size mould from CBE, but as I only shoot mine a couple of times a year I just use the HRBC bullets I buy for another cartridge, Cheers.


Did you ever put them over a chrony?


No mate, but given the pill is still slightly undersize and results from similar loads in other calibers like the 11mm French Ordnance i would estimate it around 600 fps. The original load was 23g of "Black Pistol Powder" for 700fps, what BPP was I haven't ever found out, but some have suggested it was halfway between 2F and 3F, others that it was more energetic which I find hard to believe given our modern production methods.
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Re: Webley R.I.C. .442 CF

Post by mchughcb » 02 May 2024, 4:51 pm

No1Mk3 wrote:
mchughcb wrote:
No1Mk3 wrote:G'day mate,
44 Webley is currently $35 a cartridge, not suitable to shoot as no guarantee it will fire. Making ammo from 44Mag or 44Spl is the cheap option as brass is $4 each last time I checked. I load HRBC 44 cal 200g RN FP with 16g of 3F, the 44 bullet is .002 larger at .429 than the 44-40 bullet at .427 but it won't make much difference. Proper size is .436 so you could bump up a lead bullet or order a correct size mould from CBE, but as I only shoot mine a couple of times a year I just use the HRBC bullets I buy for another cartridge, Cheers.


Did you ever put them over a chrony?


No mate, but given the pill is still slightly undersize and results from similar loads in other calibers like the 11mm French Ordnance i would estimate it around 600 fps. The original load was 23g of "Black Pistol Powder" for 700fps, what BPP was I haven't ever found out, but some have suggested it was halfway between 2F and 3F, others that it was more energetic which I find hard to believe given our modern production methods.


Very interesting. What dies are you using?
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Re: Webley R.I.C. .442 CF

Post by No1Mk3 » 02 May 2024, 5:48 pm

mchughcb wrote:
No1Mk3 wrote:
mchughcb wrote:
No1Mk3 wrote:G'day mate,
44 Webley is currently $35 a cartridge, not suitable to shoot as no guarantee it will fire. Making ammo from 44Mag or 44Spl is the cheap option as brass is $4 each last time I checked. I load HRBC 44 cal 200g RN FP with 16g of 3F, the 44 bullet is .002 larger at .429 than the 44-40 bullet at .427 but it won't make much difference. Proper size is .436 so you could bump up a lead bullet or order a correct size mould from CBE, but as I only shoot mine a couple of times a year I just use the HRBC bullets I buy for another cartridge, Cheers.


Did you ever put them over a chrony?


No mate, but given the pill is still slightly undersize and results from similar loads in other calibers like the 11mm French Ordnance i would estimate it around 600 fps. The original load was 23g of "Black Pistol Powder" for 700fps, what BPP was I haven't ever found out, but some have suggested it was halfway between 2F and 3F, others that it was more energetic which I find hard to believe given our modern production methods.


Very interesting. What dies are you using?


Sizing and de-priming is Lee 455 Webley, .006" over but still chambers in my RIC, seat by hand or use the 455 die, crimp using a shortened Lee 44 Mag roll crimp seating die, 44 Mag shellholder.
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Re: Webley R.I.C. .442 CF

Post by mchughcb » 02 May 2024, 6:54 pm

Very interesting. Thanks for that.
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Re: Webley R.I.C. .442 CF

Post by deye243 » 03 May 2024, 12:28 am

Faedy wrote:I actually had to hand in some Webley 455 mkII ammo today from a homicide scene - never heard of it prior.

You must be a young'en .
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Re: Webley R.I.C. .442 CF

Post by Jorlcrin » 04 May 2024, 8:06 am

So,

Question for people interested in this cartridge...

It seems I might have quantity of them; still in the 50-round Eley boxes(see attached).
Cant remember how many boxes remain, but likely a few.

As far as I can remember(Took these late August last year), the other 2 attached pics are dummies for same?

Anyone interested?

Is there any safe way to pull BP cartridges?
Is there any way to safely inert primers?
Would I likely be looking at Berdan primers?

Given I live in Outback QLD, not going to be shipping anyone live ammo, but if I can get some input on how to safely pull these rounds and harvest cases and projectiles, is this of interest to anyone?

Send me a PM if so.
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Re: Webley R.I.C. .442 CF

Post by bladeracer » 04 May 2024, 9:28 am

You can try an inertia hammer to pull the bullets.
Look like Berdan to me.
I wouldn't pull them apart though, they'd definitely be of value to collectors intact as live ammo.
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Re: Webley R.I.C. .442 CF

Post by Jorlcrin » 04 May 2024, 10:39 am

Yeah, I was thinking about the value to collectors, but I have the challenge of getting them anywhere 'intact' to sell them as-is...

I do have an inertia hammer; I had wondered how that would work on 80-odd year old Blackpowder?

When I get around to it, I might trial pulling a few while wearing some PPE...
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Re: Webley R.I.C. .442 CF

Post by bladeracer » 04 May 2024, 3:00 pm

Jorlcrin wrote:Yeah, I was thinking about the value to collectors, but I have the challenge of getting them anywhere 'intact' to sell them as-is...

I do have an inertia hammer; I had wondered how that would work on 80-odd year old Blackpowder?

When I get around to it, I might trial pulling a few while wearing some PPE...


True, but collectors pay big money for some old cartridges. I'm sure a bunch of collectors could get together and organise for somebody travelling to collect them. How far from Brisbane are you?

I can't see the hammer being an issue for black any more than smokeless.
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