Round ball for hunting

[Oldbloke]

I zeroed my 50cal ML last week with a simple DIY peep sight. I bought it for a toy. But now intend to eventually hunt with it.
I found the following on a yank forum. I gives me a lot of confidence now in the ML out to about 60 yards

"If anyone wonders the effectiveness of a 54 round ball check out the pictures! The doe was hit at 30 yards with 70 grains FF Goex and hit broadside. The roundball went through the rib cage on left side, through heart/ lungs, through rib cage on right side and stopped just under the skin on the right side. I hand cast my own balls and this one weighed 222 grains when poured. After the recovery it weighed 220.5 grains with a nice mushroom shape. The deer went about 50 yards. The patch I recovered also from the same shot."

189251-68870499d863decf7e7ef37ea32bcc85(1).jpg (122 KiB) Viewed 6898 times

189252-f66158a88e8fc6f6bd995cb1d1809783(1).jpg (122.71 KiB) Viewed 6898 times

[bigpete]

Yeah saw that same thread.
All I use is prb for hunting

[Oldbloke]

Yes, I spotted your comment.
BP, what would you consider the sensible range of a .50 RB with 60gr fff (abt 1450fps) goats fox, small pig?

[bigpete]

Screenshot_20230115-165152_Gallery.jpg (336.01 KiB) Viewed 6854 times

Here's a couple of .570 prb I dug out of a wet clay bank. I was 100m away,using my cva rocky mountain big bore and 110gn of 2f. I'd imagine its effect on game will be fantastic

[bladeracer]

Screenshot_20230115-165152_Gallery.jpg

Here's a couple of .570 prb I dug out of a wet clay bank. I was 100m away,using my cva rocky mountain big bore and 110gn of 2f. I'd imagine its effect on game will be fantastic

That does look good. Do you know what velocity they're making?

[bigpete]

Yes, I spotted your comment.
BP, what would you consider the sensible range of a .50 RB with 60gr fff (abt 1450fps) goats fox, small pig?

Under 100m

[bigpete]

Screenshot_20230115-165152_Gallery.jpg

Here's a couple of .570 prb I dug out of a wet clay bank. I was 100m away,using my cva rocky mountain big bore and 110gn of 2f. I'd imagine its effect on game will be fantastic

That does look good. Do you know what velocity they're making?

Not officially but I believe around 1400fps going by the NAML website

[Oldbloke]

Yes, I spotted your comment.
BP, what would you consider the sensible range of a .50 RB with 60gr fff (abt 1450fps) goats fox, small pig?

Under 100m

Thx. I'll stick with up to 70 yards I think

[bigpete]

I reckon. I don't actually think I've shot anything over 50m yet

[Oldbloke]

I reckon. I don't actually think I've shot anything over 50m yet

Yeh, my eyes struggle a bit. Hence the peep sight.

[bigpete]

I've shot the 58 on targets out to 100m. Actually very accurate but hits about 6" high

[bladeracer]

That does look good. Do you know what velocity they're making?

Not officially but I believe around 1400fps going by the NAML website

Sounds about right, I've run my .45 around 1450fps with decent accuracy but I prefer to keep them subsonic for messing about with.

[CRF]

I've shot a few deer with round balls, can't show you any photos because I'm yet to recover one. Modern shooters really under appreciate just how good a sphere of lead is at killing. Kills have been between 20m and 99m ranged. I've got no qualms going further if comfortable with the shot. All my PRB shooting has been with my 54's using cast .535 (230gn) balls and between 90-100gn 2F.

I've currently got on order a custom build with a bloke in Aus for a 58 english sporting flint rifle, planning on running .570 (279gn) balls through that. I've requested a folding rear sight, thinking of having the first set for 50m and the second for around 120m. Or possibly 100m and 150m. Out to that range the ball will start dropping plenty.

Historically, longhunters and mountain men would shoot game out to 200 yards, my personal limit is well under that though.

[Oldbloke]

Yea, my CVA is 1/2 " and the the ball is about 20gr too light to legally shoot Fallow. But If I get a chance Ill test it out on goats or foxes in close.


I'm also currently waiting on some info from the police.

[bigpete]

Yea, my CVA is 1/2 " and the the ball is about 20gr too light to legally shoot Fallow. But If I get a chance Ill test it out on goats or foxes in close.


I'm also currently waiting on some info from the police.

Damn,it is too

[CRF]

Yea, my CVA is 1/2 " and the the ball is about 20gr too light to legally shoot Fallow. But If I get a chance Ill test it out on goats or foxes in close.


I'm also currently waiting on some info from the police.

It's ridiculous that our legal minimum round ball weight for a hoggie or fallow can only be achieved with a .54 seeing as some US states allow 50 cal for elk.

I'm almost exclusively hunting with round ball flintlocks these days, my centrefires and even the old caplock just don't have the same allure anymore.
I would love to have an SMR .45 cal flinter for hunting hog deer and fallow and would have no concerns about shots to my max range with roundballs, but as you say foxes and such are as big as we can legally go. I would like to see these laws changed in Vic, 45 cal with roundballs for everything short of reds and sambar. On the latter, 54 is probably a sensible minimum.

Out of curiousity, what are you chasing up with VicPol?

[bigpete]

Yea, my CVA is 1/2 " and the the ball is about 20gr too light to legally shoot Fallow. But If I get a chance Ill test it out on goats or foxes in close.


I'm also currently waiting on some info from the police.

It's ridiculous that our legal minimum round ball weight for a hoggie or fallow can only be achieved with a .54 seeing as some US states allow 50 cal for elk.

I'm almost exclusively hunting with round ball flintlocks these days, my centrefires and even the old caplock just don't have the same allure anymore.
I would love to have an SMR .45 cal flinter for hunting hog deer and fallow and would have no concerns about shots to my max range with roundballs, but as you say foxes and such are as big as we can legally go. I would like to see these laws changed in Vic, 45 cal with roundballs for everything short of reds and sambar. On the latter, 54 is probably a sensible minimum.

Out of curiousity, what are you chasing up with VicPol?

I bet its whether a muzzleloader loaded without a cap on the nipple is considered a " loaded " firearm..

[CRF]

Yea, my CVA is 1/2 " and the the ball is about 20gr too light to legally shoot Fallow. But If I get a chance Ill test it out on goats or foxes in close.


I'm also currently waiting on some info from the police.

It's ridiculous that our legal minimum round ball weight for a hoggie or fallow can only be achieved with a .54 seeing as some US states allow 50 cal for elk.

I'm almost exclusively hunting with round ball flintlocks these days, my centrefires and even the old caplock just don't have the same allure anymore.
I would love to have an SMR .45 cal flinter for hunting hog deer and fallow and would have no concerns about shots to my max range with roundballs, but as you say foxes and such are as big as we can legally go. I would like to see these laws changed in Vic, 45 cal with roundballs for everything short of reds and sambar. On the latter, 54 is probably a sensible minimum.

Out of curiousity, what are you chasing up with VicPol?

I bet its whether a muzzleloader loaded without a cap on the nipple is considered a " loaded " firearm..

Apologies to OB for the digression but I've wondered similar before. Hypothetically say your pan and vent hole gets thoroughly wet and the ball cannot be shot out. getting that out in the field is a mammoth task, I really don't want to be snapping my hickory rod and having it lodged down there too. Would a policeman be reasonable about explaining that you're on the way home to pull the ball and wash out the black soup that was once powder which cannot be removed any other way? My concern is no.

[animalpest]

Is it classed as a loaded firearm if it wont go bang?

[Oldbloke]

Yep, I think 1/2" for fallow should be legal for sure.

Yep, bigpete is right. If just powder and ball is considered "loaded" under the Vic Act then you can't even legally cross most roads/tracks. Let alone drive back to camp/home or store at home.

Imagine, you set up camp go for a drive load & hunt, then need to shoot it off or pull the ball so you can go back to camp to have lunch. Utter madness.

So I want to know what's considered legal. Then I can adjust how or where I hunt with the ML.

They have responded and asked to confirm some ID info. Last i checked they were processing lic applications late January. So I'm going to follow up at end of March. I dont expect a quick reply. They might be scratcing their heads. if I don't get an answer i will perhaps take it further.

I know many ML users consider ball and powder loaded. ( that means they know they are probably often unlawfull when hunting....WTF ) Apparently SSAA does on the range. I understand their view. But IMO it's safe and effectively inert without the cap. And certainly fullfills the intent & spirit of the Act. The removel of powder from pan and a leather coverl over the steel would I guess be the equivalent for flint locks.

I'm thinking a sensible out come would be that for hunting and travelling it's OK. But storage you must remove ball and powder. That would be workable & sensible. But I'm guessing because of how the Act is written it will be one or the other.

Patiently waiting.

[CRF]

Is it classed as a loaded firearm if it wont go bang?

That's my question, and if you're not familiar with BP it really does turn to soup with any amount of moisture on it. In the pan isn't an issue, you can wipe it out. But when you get moisture through the vent into the main charge its game over.

It is a method,and is one I've used where when a ball or jag gets stuck, you pour in some water to your vent or nipple to render it inoperable and safe. Don't get too keen on yanking a ball out toward myself with dry powder behind it.

[CRF]

Yep, I think 1/2" for fallow should be legal for sure.

Yep, bigpete is right. If just powder and ball is considered "loaded" under the Vic Act then you can't even legally cross most roads/tracks. Let alone drive back to camp/home or store at home.

Imagine, you set up camp go for a drive load & hunt, then need to shoot it off or pull the ball so you can go back to camp to have lunch. Utter madness.

So I want to know what's considered legal. Then I can adjust how or where I hunt with the ML.

They have responded and asked to confirm some ID info. Last i checked they were processing lic applications late January. So I'm going to follow up at end of March. I dont expect a quick reply. They might be scratcing their heads. if I don't get an answer i will perhaps take it further.

I know many ML users consider ball and powder loaded. ( that means they know they are probably often unlawfull when hunting....WTF ) Apparently SSAA does on the range. I understand their view. But IMO it's safe and effectively inert without the cap. And certainly fullfills the intent & spirit of the Act. The removel of powder from pan and a leather coverl over the steel would I guess be the equivalent for flint locks.

I'm thinking a sensible out come would be that for hunting and travelling it's OK. But storage you must remove ball and powder. That would be workable & sensible. But I'm guessing because of how the Act is written it will be one or the other.

Patiently waiting.

Yeah absolutely absurd in my book. I'm all for logical things that maintain safety but practicality and common sense really needs to be considered.

I've accidentally dropped a hammer on a nipple without a cap a couple of times. The only thing that goes off is me!

If I'm around people say shooting targets, with powder and ball in a flinter I keep the frizzen and cock at the fired position. Can't pull the trigger, can't drop the cock or frizzen, as far as I'm concerned that's safe.

[Oldbloke]

Is it classed as a loaded firearm if it wont go bang?

In short the Act is silent on this issue. It just basically says, ( the very brief lay persons version )

1. You must not do this etc etc with a loaded firearm.

2. Describes a metallic cartridge. (importantly including a primer)

3. A loaded firearm has a metallic cartridge in chambered or in magazine.

So.... you could argue that under the Act, because only a firearm loaded with a cartridge is considered "loaded" then..... ML with cap, ball & powder is not loaded. of course we all know that's ridiculous.

Very little about MLs.

[perentie]

Yea, my CVA is 1/2 " and the the ball is about 20gr too light to legally shoot Fallow. But If I get a chance Ill test it out on goats or foxes in close.


I'm also currently waiting on some info from the police.

It's ridiculous that our legal minimum round ball weight for a hoggie or fallow can only be achieved with a .54 seeing as some US states allow 50 cal for elk.

I'm almost exclusively hunting with round ball flintlocks these days, my centrefires and even the old caplock just don't have the same allure anymore.
I would love to have an SMR .45 cal flinter for hunting hog deer and fallow and would have no concerns about shots to my max range with roundballs, but as you say foxes and such are as big as we can legally go. I would like to see these laws changed in Vic, 45 cal with roundballs for everything short of reds and sambar. On the latter, 54 is probably a sensible minimum.

Out of curiousity, what are you chasing up with VicPol?

I bet its whether a muzzleloader loaded without a cap on the nipple is considered a " loaded " firearm..

Apologies to OB for the digression but I've wondered similar before. Hypothetically say your pan and vent hole gets thoroughly wet and the ball cannot be shot out. getting that out in the field is a mammoth task, I really don't want to be snapping my hickory rod and having it lodged down there too. Would a policeman be reasonable about explaining that you're on the way home to pull the ball and wash out the black soup that was once powder which cannot be removed any other way? My concern is no.

How would your average copper know whether a ML was loaded or not anyway.

[Oldbloke]

"How would your average copper know whether a ML was loaded or not anyway"

NFI, but GMA officer would know.

I think it needs to be clarified anyway.

[Blr243]

If i want to try lead round balls ( not for hunting ) in my 4570 ( not using blak powder ) do i seat the pill exactlycentre of the ball on the case mouth and secure it with my lee fac crimp die ? I never bought or tried them b 4

[CRF]

Red stag shot at 50m through high shoulder and spine was a full pass through with my 54.

[bigpete]

If i want to try lead round balls ( not for hunting ) in my 4570 ( not using blak powder ) do i seat the pill exactlycentre of the ball on the case mouth and secure it with my lee fac crimp die ? I never bought or tried them b 4

That's pretty much what I did.....with 2 more balls in behind it.....

[bigpete]

Red stag shot at 50m through high shoulder and spine was a full pass through with my 54.

Is there meant to be a pic ?

[Blr243]

Thanks pete. After i posted i found info and a link about single , double and triple loads. I also have Some TB unique red dot and bulls eye . Rebels probably have balls in stock . I want to avoid buying new brass I have a ton of 4570 brass already. But its loaded. Ill pull some apart because i have some problem 405 cast reloads i need to sort out