Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by dnedative » 26 Dec 2022, 7:03 pm

jpsauer88 wrote:
No1Mk3 wrote:I mean, you get into car modification communities and you will never hear someone saying cast pistons are as good as forged. Yet in firearm communities, if a brand uses a weaker method because it is cheaper, people will begin to defy physics and start believing it is stronger, because company X is using it and they own company X's products. Why do forged exist? Why are you limited with PSI when using cast pistons? Why do high output for displacement engines use Forged? Come on guys, yes cast is adequate - but it isnt "the same" or "superior" to forged? I'm not going to waste time arguing the earth is round.



I have a turbocharged Toyota 1UZFE running the stock 10.5:1 hypereutectic pistons; Runs about a bar of boost, pistons are the same material as the 2JZ pistons. I will break the diff, driveshaft, gearbox and maybe the conrods before the pistons become an issue. Maybe Ruger make them?
Would take those over the engine I built with Ross forged pistons a few years ago, bore clearance specified was 6 thou, every cold start it sounded like it had dropped a little end out of it.


End of the day, I dont care what my guns or pistons are made out of provided they are fit for purpose.
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by SCJ429 » 26 Dec 2022, 7:41 pm

You would have known that your forged pistons will rattle a bit as the engine comes up to temperature I am sure. Forgd pistons never worried me as long as they didn't come apart on the track, not that there is anything wrong with your Hypers.

Be funny if your Ruger shoots really well dispite the casting lines and tooling marks. The best way to avoid disappointment regarding these type of QA issues is to build an rifle based on a custom action such as Barnard, BAT Machine, Stolle or Defiance. Beautiful actions but they cost considerably more than Ruger can bang them out for.
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by northdude » 27 Dec 2022, 8:51 am

I've got a custom built rifle on a ruger american centerfire action and boyds stock. its a good rifle for one that's built on a budget
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by Oldbloke » 27 Dec 2022, 10:12 am

dnedative wrote:

End of the day, I dont care what my guns or pistons are made out of provided they are fit for purpose.


That's more or less where I'm at.
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by Peterwho » 27 Dec 2022, 3:45 pm

Will they let you the John Rigby & Sons’ door with $2k
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by jwai86 » 27 Dec 2022, 5:06 pm

What were your other potential options besides the Ruger?
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by bigpete » 27 Dec 2022, 5:28 pm

Peterwho wrote:Will they let you the John Rigby & Sons’ door with $2k

Thats the viewing fee lol
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by dnedative » 27 Dec 2022, 6:23 pm

SCJ429 wrote:You would have known that your forged pistons will rattle a bit as the engine comes up to temperature I am sure. Forgd pistons never worried me as long as they didn't come apart on the track, not that there is anything wrong with your Hypers.


I wouldn't buy them again, I can only assume they were speced like that because that would of been the desired clearance if you were making 300hp a hole running a staged nitrous system or 50lb of boost getting them pretty hot. Would probably go with CP or Wiseco next time but anyway, thread for a different forum lol
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by dnedative » 27 Dec 2022, 6:25 pm

Peterwho wrote:Will they let you the John Rigby & Sons’ door with $2k


There is a bloke in WA who bought about a dozen custom order Boss and Co and Purdey double rifles recently.
Was on a big game forum, I'll see if I can find the link.

I reckon he wouldn't of seen a whole lot of change from $5M
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by jpsauer88 » 29 Dec 2022, 11:20 am

jwai86 wrote:What were your other potential options besides the Ruger?


Hey mate
Other option was a winchester m70 feather $2k or $2700 for the supergrade. I went the ruger over the m70. I put this up in another forum more USA based most guys were unhappy with stock fitment and say this is one that was most likely rejected by someone in states or a sloppy job so sent to Australia.

I bought a cz 550 ebony 3006 for 1800 (new) 2 months ago. IMO best rifle for money is cz 550, again my opinion, a heavy step above m70, i wont even mention the hawkeye.

The cz 550 (even the standard model) imo is a perfect rifle. But I should have even bought a Tikka or browning at this price, pretty much anything would have had a better stock fitment and finish. My brothers howa and my howa are both finished a few steps better than this, and even with the machine marks on my howa bolt (the newer ones have this) it is way smoother to cycle than the Ruger.
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by Billo » 30 Dec 2022, 7:03 am

jpsauer88 I actually think the stock fitment is good as the tang has plenty of relief and after all a 300 Win mag will need some bedding.

The only 2 areas I would criticise as need 30 secs of dremel polishing is inside the trigger guard and the underside of the bolt where it has a seam, the rest of the rifle appears fine and normal.
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by Billo » 30 Dec 2022, 7:04 am

A CZ550 in 300 win magnum would be my first choice not an overpriced Winchester
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by Mattraff » 30 Dec 2022, 11:36 am

It's a shame the final finish is not up to standard and I can understand your disappointment. The 77 is one of the few remaining controlled round feed rifles on the market that is affordable though. My mate has 2 77's and the finish is better than that pictured but not great. One is an 10 year old 243 and the other a 308 gunsite scout and although they are not finished as good as his or my CZ's they both shoot way better than expected for a sporter and the 308 consistently puts 5 shots in a ragged hole at 100m which for a short and light rifle is way better than expected.
I'm not a huge fan of castings being used in rifles but there is not much choice now. I believe Ruger were one of the first to use investment casting for firearms I believe and have been doing it for over 50 years now.
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by dnedative » 30 Dec 2022, 6:03 pm

Billo wrote:jpsauer88 I actually think the stock fitment is good as the tang has plenty of relief and after all a 300 Win mag will need some bedding.


jpsauer88 wrote:Image



That's a f***ing mile away from being good
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by Billo » 30 Dec 2022, 9:02 pm

LOL a rear cross bolt would tighten up alot of the lateral slack.

Ive got a HS precision stock in the cupboard for a long action Ruger, if you change your mind and keep the rifle it would be a decent upgrade :drinks:
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by bladeracer » 30 Dec 2022, 10:33 pm

Billo wrote:LOL a rear cross bolt would tighten up alot of the lateral slack.


By crushing the timber?
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by Billo » 30 Dec 2022, 11:03 pm

without having the stock and its slightly overly generous inletting where are you getting crushing timber from ?
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by bladeracer » 30 Dec 2022, 11:36 pm

Billo wrote:without having the stock and its slightly overly generous inletting where are you getting crushing timber from ?


How is a bolt through the stock going to draw the inletting up tight to the action without crushing the timber to do so?
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by jpsauer88 » 31 Dec 2022, 12:32 am

Wish i could like comments! Bladeracer, dnedative
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by phill55phill » 31 Dec 2022, 8:44 am

Built to a price and they do the job and are plenty strong they don't explode in your face
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by Billo » 31 Dec 2022, 9:52 am

bladeracer wrote:
Billo wrote:without having the stock and its slightly overly generous inletting where are you getting crushing timber from ?


How is a bolt through the stock going to draw the inletting up tight to the action without crushing the timber to do so?


Timber gets compressed bladeracer, I havent mentioned drawing the action up tight thats ur words, but either way cross bolts act like a clamp at the weakest and most flexible part of a timber stock. Cross bolts help with the recoil generated and transferred back the thru from flexing the stock and allowing the tang of the action to touch the rear inletting, which can cause a spilt in the stock. :thumbsup:
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by bladeracer » 31 Dec 2022, 11:50 am

Billo wrote:Timber gets compressed bladeracer, I havent mentioned drawing the action up tight thats ur words, but either way cross bolts act like a clamp at the weakest and most flexible part of a timber stock. Cross bolts help with the recoil generated and transferred back the thru from flexing the stock and allowing the tang of the action to touch the rear inletting, which can cause a spilt in the stock. :thumbsup:


Yep, but it is not going to close up gaps around the action unless it can significantly warp the timber to do so. The only way you're going to fix these gaps is by cutting the inlet out, epoxying in a new chunk of wood with as similar grain as possible, and re-cutting the inlet properly.
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by jpsauer88 » 31 Dec 2022, 8:47 pm

phill55phill wrote:Built to a price and they do the job and are plenty strong they don't explode in your face


No rifles do...
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by jpsauer88 » 19 Jan 2023, 11:30 pm

Just an update
Got a full refund
Going to get a Model 70 (winchester) or CZ550 if i can find one.

Model 70 winchester seems to be a good gun in reviews, if theres something I am missing please let me know.
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by deye243 » 20 Jan 2023, 1:02 am

Have not seen this thread for a while I actually went back and had a look at the pictures in your OP and yeah for the price of a Ruger that is actually disgusting nothing like the ones I picked up in the 90s and early 2000s even then they had atrocious triggers but at least the Finish was a hundred percent better than what you got.
As for buying a Winchester between everybody I know ground here I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole if you've got a lot of money to spend get one of the upmarket tikkas maybe a sako I just don't like them personal preference but for me it would not be a Winchester don't know if you've mentioned it yet or not didn't really read it all what calibre are you chasing that will have a lot to do with required accuracy expectations
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by SCJ429 » 20 Jan 2023, 7:22 pm

I just took my TikkaT3 Varmint out to the range to sight it in before going out this weekend to the farm. Standard rifle with original 22/250 barrel and it shot two five shot groups in the 0.3s with Hornady VMax. Such a great hunting rifle, never regretted buying a Tikka or Sako.
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by Wyliecoyote » 20 Jan 2023, 9:57 pm

Interesting that Ruger, the mob that developed investment casting of firearms, is being outdone in this area by Winchester, Howa and Sako. Billet is used for Tikka T3s, Rem 700s and later non 77 Ruger actions. The only "forged" anything currently is CZ and possibly the bolts of Howas.
A lot of misinformation about casting, billet steels and forging. All metals and metal alloys start off as a casting. From there a billet can be extruded. Still a casting just extruded and set to some sort of nominal size by either hot or cold rolling or even rough machining. Some really upmarket steel mills do a double or triple melt with alloys to increase blend quality. Regarded by many in the trade as being of the highest grade are the steels used by Bergara of Spain that are sourced from a nearby mill.

Forging is simply hit with a mechanical hammer to form the rough profile before machining. Lots of youtube vids show exactly the process. Actions are not fully forged, the steel glob is smacked to a profile that looks like a bolt or receiver and then later on is finish machined. This forging process is usually outsourced.
The strength gain with a forging over the initial cast metal is around 25%. Considerable gain, but that is more aplicable to a complete forging like a spanner, hammer ect and that percentage gain is not likely to be seen in any reciever. That means your Mauser 98, Krupps steel inclusive, is not as strong as you think, but it can be true of the bolt. There is evidence that an investment cast action, exactly like the Sako 85 post Barretta ownership, is stronger than a forged profile machined out because the crystal alignment is not compromised.
All manufacturers use good metal in whatever method of production they use. The way they are finish machined is their way of hiding how the action was made to either a standard like Sako, or are made to a price point like Ruger and Howa.
Personally, if you think you are better off strength wise without the Hawkeye, you are misinformed. Bill Ruger, probably about the same time Weatherby was doing the same thing back in the 1960s, did extensive tests on his 77 actions against 98 Mausers, actions he started off using before the 77 was introduced. He set out to prove investment casting was superior. He did exactly that. No doubt someone on here will have his book and can correct me on this, but the large magnum (exact cartridge escapes me) had the barrel welded forward of the chamber, case packed with the fastest powder they could find, heaviest bullet seated with the action suspended from a steel girder, a long pull string and then fired. The barrel left the action at the shoulder and the action was retrieved and was found to be fully functional. This one action had multiple attempts to destroy it and all failed. This test was done before many witnesses and for a very long time after, the 77 action was regarded as the stongest sporting action available.
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I do wish I'd purchased it in person

Post by jovialjosie2002 » 23 Jan 2023, 12:14 pm

I had the same problem with a cz, rough as guts. I also purchased it sight unseen. After I sent it back 3 times, it was sort of "fixed"

I NEVER PUT MONEY DOWN ON A FIREARM UNLESS IT'S INFRONT OF ME.

We all make mistakes in life, I hope people see what's happened to you and they don't put money down till they see the firearm in the shop.
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Re: I do wish I'd purchased it in person

Post by Oldbloke » 23 Jan 2023, 12:48 pm

jovialjosie2002 wrote:I had the same problem with a cz, rough as guts. I also purchased it sight unseen. After I sent it back 3 times, it was sort of "fixed"

I NEVER PUT MONEY DOWN ON A FIREARM UNLESS IT'S INFRONT OF ME.

We all make mistakes in life, I hope people see what's happened to you and they don't put money down till they see the firearm in the shop.


+1 :thumbsup:
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Re: Ruger M77 Hawkeye - Overpriced, Overrated, Zero QQ

Post by jpsauer88 » 23 Jan 2023, 6:13 pm

deye243 wrote:Have not seen this thread for a while I actually went back and had a look at the pictures in your OP and yeah for the price of a Ruger that is actually disgusting nothing like the ones I picked up in the 90s and early 2000s even then they had atrocious triggers but at least the Finish was a hundred percent better than what you got.
As for buying a Winchester between everybody I know ground here I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole if you've got a lot of money to spend get one of the upmarket tikkas maybe a sako I just don't like them personal preference but for me it would not be a Winchester don't know if you've mentioned it yet or not didn't really read it all what calibre are you chasing that will have a lot to do with required accuracy expectations


Hello, i was after a 300win mag
Is there a specific issue with the model 70 supergrade?
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