jwai86 wrote:I've seen 22LR rifles on the market with barrel lengths of 16", 18", 20", 22", 24" and even as long as 28",
My current understanding over a long period of researching online is that:
- A 16" barrel is sufficiently long enough for the powder in 22LR cartridges to be fully consumed.
- A longer barrel can increase the round's velocity, but there will be a point when the round will stop gaining velocity and start losing it from friction with the longer rifling.
- A stiffer shorter barrel (particularly on varmint models) is less likely to be affected by the tiny vibrations that occur during shooting that may affect accuracy.
- When using iron sights, a longer barrel increases the sight radius which can make it easier to make accurate shots.
- A short and compact rifle is ideal if you are expecting to take it through dense bush or are shooting from a vehicle.
- Barrel length can affect the balance of the rifle, particularly if you are shooting it offhand.
bladeracer wrote:Generally, I like 18". If you want to get full value out of high-velocity ammo, longer is better, 22" is a good choice. If you enjoy the hyper-velocity ammo a 25" may be better. If most of your shooting is subsonic or low-subsonic a shorter barrel may be better. I find 18" to 20" to be the best all-round compromise.
jwai86 wrote:bladeracer wrote:Generally, I like 18". If you want to get full value out of high-velocity ammo, longer is better, 22" is a good choice. If you enjoy the hyper-velocity ammo a 25" may be better. If most of your shooting is subsonic or low-subsonic a shorter barrel may be better. I find 18" to 20" to be the best all-round compromise.
I get that subsonic ammo is used when noise is a potential concern, but when would high velocity ammo be desirable?
jwai86 wrote:bladeracer wrote:Generally, I like 18". If you want to get full value out of high-velocity ammo, longer is better, 22" is a good choice. If you enjoy the hyper-velocity ammo a 25" may be better. If most of your shooting is subsonic or low-subsonic a shorter barrel may be better. I find 18" to 20" to be the best all-round compromise.
I get that subsonic ammo is used when noise is a potential concern, but when would high velocity ammo be desirable?
hunting99 wrote:The only problem I have with a 16” barrel is it’s a bit loud for what I use a 22 for
bladeracer wrote:jwai86 wrote:bladeracer wrote:Generally, I like 18". If you want to get full value out of high-velocity ammo, longer is better, 22" is a good choice. If you enjoy the hyper-velocity ammo a 25" may be better. If most of your shooting is subsonic or low-subsonic a shorter barrel may be better. I find 18" to 20" to be the best all-round compromise.
I get that subsonic ammo is used when noise is a potential concern, but when would high velocity ammo be desirable?
High-velocity is preferred by many people for killing larger animals, like calves and big roos injured on the road. It can also be better for foxes, but I use subsonic CCI SV for hunting as it's more accurate. If I need to shoot something with more impact I have plenty of centrefires to choose from.
99% of my shooting is subsonic, if I don't need to be noisy I prefer not to be.
If I'm shooting very close to the house I prefer to go low-subsonic with CCI Quiets at 710fps, it's quieter than my air-rifles.
I like high-velocity for long-range practice as the trajectory is flatter, though the accuracy is not as good. But long-range with .22LR means the groups are already quite large, at 300m they're around 250mm if I'm shooting very well in a steady wind. At 300m, with a 100m zero, CCI Standard Velocity at 1070fps drops 4100mm, the Federal 510 at 1275fps drops 3400mm.
joneda1 wrote:I've just had my licence approved and I'm shopping for a gun now. I mainly need a gun to shoot foxes and I'm close enough to neighbours that I really want to keep the noise down. I also need to be able to kill foxes at up to 50m range.
What's your experience with the CCI Quiets? And maybe CCI Quiet Semi-Auto if I wanted to compromise a bit on noise level?
Are they likely to disturb neighbours who are about 40-50m away, mostly through a tall grove of trees?
Just how loud do they seem at a distance?
Compare to standard subsonics, is there a great deal of difference in noise level?
Will they have the power to kill foxes reliably, assuming a decently aimed shot?
I notice elsewhere that you did some test on muzzle velocity for different barrel lengths but with higher velocity ammunition. Would you have any comments on both the muzzle velocity and noise level of CCI Quiets and other subsonics between say 18" and 21" barrels?
bladeracer wrote:joneda1 wrote:I've just had my licence approved and I'm shopping for a gun now. I mainly need a gun to shoot foxes and I'm close enough to neighbours that I really want to keep the noise down. I also need to be able to kill foxes at up to 50m range.
What's your experience with the CCI Quiets? And maybe CCI Quiet Semi-Auto if I wanted to compromise a bit on noise level?
Are they likely to disturb neighbours who are about 40-50m away, mostly through a tall grove of trees?
Just how loud do they seem at a distance?
Compare to standard subsonics, is there a great deal of difference in noise level?
Will they have the power to kill foxes reliably, assuming a decently aimed shot?
I notice elsewhere that you did some test on muzzle velocity for different barrel lengths but with higher velocity ammunition. Would you have any comments on both the muzzle velocity and noise level of CCI Quiets and other subsonics between say 18" and 21" barrels?
For some reason this thread doesn't pop up when I search for new posts, but I stumbled upon it now.
You're looking for a rifle, guns are smoothbore
CCI Quiet is very good, but as with all .22LR it will depend on whether your specific rifle shoots it well enough to head-shoot foxes out to your preferred maximum, 50m is certainly viable. Anything that is subsonic is all going to be relatively similar in overall noise output. The difference to the ear between Quiet and Standard Velocity is very noticeable to a shooter, to a non-shooter both sound like gun shots. If neighbours are inside double-glazed housing it is very likely they will hear nothing at all, especially if they have local noise as well, like television. Without double-glazing it's possible a good ear might pick up a shot. I really would not be relying on shooting at all in the hope that nobody will ever notice it. Assume you will be heard.
CCI Quiets specifically will lose velocity in longer barrels, and the longer barrel will trap the burning powder for longer so it will be a little quieter. Reducing velocity also makes it less effective on the target though, and the primary goal has to be a clean kill, even if it requires more noise. There are some other cartridges that shoot in that low-subsonic realm so you'd want to try them all and determine which shoots best for you. I keep a rifle zeroed at 40m with Quiets for shooting around the house, it wouldn't be my first choice for chasing foxes. But a fox dazzled in a spotlight at very close range would certainly drop on the spot with a clean head-shot. They don't group as well for me as other ammunitions, but are perfectly capable at 50m max, for me with my rifle.
Making such shots will require lots of practice, preferably not within the restrictions of a range. You need to spend time in the field, shooting in field positions at targets of different shapes, sizes and colours at random distances until you can hit them every time. Ideally you want to be able to hit a circle about 30mm diameter under all conditions to be confident of clean kills on live targets. If you can manage that out to 30m, but not past there then make that your maximum range. The lower velocity ammunition has a more curved trajectory so keeping the ranges short is beneficial.
You could also look at a centrefire using reduced subsonic loads. The jacketed bullets tend to have better accuracy and trajectory than the cast bullets of .22LR, so they can give you more range even at the same low velocities. The sound of the shot will be somewhat greater due to the larger case volume requiring you to burn more powder to generate the same pressure. A .22 Hornet would be good as it is a relatively small case volume. A subsonic 40gn bullet in the Hornet would burn about 2.5gn of Trailboss, about three times more than the CCI Quiet.
You might also want to look at a non-springer air-rifle in .22-cal or .25-cal. These can be very quiet - similar to CCI Quiet - and have excellent accuracy. They can be quite expensive though. All laws around firearm usage apply exactly the same to air-rifles so it's not a advantage in that regard. Once you are licenced you will be able to borrow other people's firearms and try different ammunitions to get a better feel of what options might be available. Again though, I would not be shooting with any assumption that you can do so entirely incognito. Understand that you are likely to be heard and keep it in mind.
You could try convincing your neighbours that it's great having some chooks for their eggs. Soon as they start losing chickens they may come knocking on your door to help them sort their own fox problems
You could also talk to your local Police (the people that will be responding to calls from your neighbours), explaining what your issues are and that you really do think shooting these foxes would be the safest and most humane way to deal with them. They may be willing to come out to your property for a look and tell you whether it's viable or not. But that doesn't guarantee that they'll stand up on your side in court if ever did go wrong.
joneda1 wrote:Thanks, all good info which I will take into account before buying a rifle.
animalpest wrote:In all of my .22 rifles, CCI Quiet does not shoot the first couple of rounds very accurately at all. I thought I would check the zero of one at 40 yds a few days ago. Shot was 5" low so checked again, so adjusted the scope. Next shot was 5" too high. Yep.
They are also extremely marginal for shooting foxes except at quite short range and with brain shots only.
straightshooter wrote:Many many years ago I used CCI CB and RWS Zimmer to shoot cats coming to a prepared bait at about 25 meters.
I did this from a hide and I would sight in for an exact zero at that precise distance and location. I didn't notice any particularly erratic accuracy problems with either brand but most definitely only a brain shot produced an immediate kill.
Shootermick wrote:So, assuming it made the legal length, which I think it would….how would a 14” lightweight charger barrel perform on my 10/22? It’s something I’ve been thinking about for a while.
bladeracer wrote:animalpest wrote:In all of my .22 rifles, CCI Quiet does not shoot the first couple of rounds very accurately at all. I thought I would check the zero of one at 40 yds a few days ago. Shot was 5" low so checked again, so adjusted the scope. Next shot was 5" too high. Yep.
They are also extremely marginal for shooting foxes except at quite short range and with brain shots only.
Yes, you need to zero with the ammo you intend to use. Quiets are significantly slower than the majority of ammo so you need to zero for it and expect it to be very low from a standard or high-velocity zero. And you need to shoot some groups to ensure it does actually shoot well in the rifle before going after live targets.
There is not enough difference in sound to warrant using low-subsonic on anything bigger than rabbits in my opinion. The price you pay in sound between 700fps and 1100fps 40gn bullets is tiny compared to the much better terminal performance offered by that additional 400fps. One of the 45gn 1000fps-odd loads would be even better if they group for you. If you have a Norinco barrel even the 60gn Aguila might be a good choice if it groups for you.
For an inexperienced shooter it may well be better to step up to supersonic in the 1200-1400fps with 40gn bullets. At close range these are still supersonic at impact which can do more damage. The sonic crack definitely adds very significantly to the noise, but it is not obnoxious. I would avoid the "hypersonic" ammos as they rely on much lighter bullets and often lack fine accuracy, but if you find the Stinger, Yellow Jacket, Copper-22, etc groups particularly well for you they may be an option. They don't add noticeably in noise over the lower high-velocity loads.
But a bullet through the brain at even 500fps will certainly kill any fox. Heart/aorta/lung hits will also kill them, but you have a cage of ribs protecting those which could deflect a slow bullet just enough to miss the vitals - go for the brain. Hitting a single lung might prove fatal but is not guaranteed. Having your neighbours finding dead foxes on their properties will do you no favours at all.
joneda1 wrote:I expect I will buy boxes of 50 Quiet, 50 Quiet Semi-auto and 50 standard subsonic. I'll fire off enough at home to test the noise level, choose one and then stick to it. The rest of the others can be shot at the range. There are a lot more options to choose from in standard subsonic so if the noise is acceptable then I agree that's a better choice for being able to kill foxes.