308 factory ammo for deer - so many options! Help!

[JLH]

Hey all,

i'm still practicing on tightening up on groups to (ideally) guarantee best shot placement before i head out to stalk, however i'm always reading and researching in my spare time (who isn't!)

I've done a ton of research but still can't find a definitive answer to the best hunting bullet for Sambar in a 308. The marketing surrounding factory rounds makes it confusing to pick the "best" round. When i say best, i'm referring to bullet construction that will have the most devastating impact for a humane harvest.

I know shot placement is most important first of all - however i'm talking purely about factory bullet construction/types with this query.
(Tikka T3 will be the tool used for stalking)

I would be interested to know peoples thoughts on this.
Cheers.

[Larry]

Hornady make a good 185grn Hunting factory load it is a bit expensive at $60+ for a box of 20 but you only need 1.

[bigpete]

My mate swears by 165gn SGKs in adi ammo ( I think ).
I reload the same for sambar

[mchughcb]

Definite answer between marketing hype and anonymous posters on some forum.

Tough choice. Remmie corelokts 150grain because it's cheap

[JLH]

Definite answer between marketing hype and anonymous posters on some forum.

Tough choice. Remmie corelokts 150grain because it's cheap

Ha, I'm not saying everyone is credible! But at least something anecdotal is better than paid marketing..

[Bello]

Hello JLH

Sambar can be a fair size beast.
Before going out on a hunt, I would suggest you try several types of ammunition through your rifle to see which one shoot and group best out to 100 meters.

As you have mentioned...shot placement is the key. But having said that, I would suggest the bullet have a capacity to retain most of it weight on impact rather than a softer bullet like a Hornady SST or Sierra Game changer (Which I have found to be a little soft, and explode at close ranges).

There are a number of different loaded cartridges that companies claim do a lot of things.
But I have found all you need is a good bullet like the Sierra 165gr gameking placed in the boiler room or a spine shot will do the trick.

I have found these bullets to be quite accurate in the Sako and Tikka rifles I own.
I have also used the 135gr sierra bullets in my 308, very very accurate and devastating on smaller game/Varmints.
The below picture is from my Sako Finnlite, off a bench, 200 meters, Silverdale rifle range.

[animalpest]

I have never shot a sambar but have shot many many horses and donkeys which are bigger. I have used most of the premium bullets and Remington corlokt work very well

[straightshooter]

Having never hunted Sambar please take my opinion as exactly that.
If you are restricted to factory ammunition then I imagine a safe choice would be anything loaded with RWS H Mantel or Nosler Partition.
There may be more effective projectiles but there are plenty that are less so.

[deye243]

I know a very successful doging team here and several use the humble 308 and all they use it what ever cheap ammo they can get in 150g or 165g and they have accounted for several hundred over the last 20 years hit them in the neck or the boiler room they will go down don't over think it just shoot it .
All I used back in the 90s was pmc they did a great job then I used all I had so got a heap of sst 150g they weren't as good but did the trick .

[bladeracer]

Hey all,

i'm still practicing on tightening up on groups to (ideally) guarantee best shot placement before i head out to stalk, however i'm always reading and researching in my spare time (who isn't!)

I've done a ton of research but still can't find a definitive answer to the best hunting bullet for Sambar in a 308. The marketing surrounding factory rounds makes it confusing to pick the "best" round. When i say best, i'm referring to bullet construction that will have the most devastating impact for a humane harvest.

I know shot placement is most important first of all - however i'm talking purely about factory bullet construction/types with this query.
(Tikka T3 will be the tool used for stalking)

I would be interested to know peoples thoughts on this.
Cheers.

If you want something good I would lean toward a copper monolithic like a Barnes TSX or TTSX. These tend to hold together very well whereas jacketed bullets tend to blow at least the front part of the bullet to pieces. But the old Speer HotCore is also a great bullet, cheap and generally available.

But if you're stuck with factory ammo you will have to see what your dealer can get and decide which you prefer to try, then test them to confirm they're accurate in your rifle.

[JohnV]

As others have said , I would start with the ADI ammo and the 165 grain Sierra Game King bullet . Get that sighted in as the fall back ammo and then branch out with testing some other brands when and if the situation allows . We can get caught up in time and money consuming tests that all meld together in the end because that ammo that shot so well two years back now might change as new batch's come along . You don't need target accuracy for stalking type hunting as long as it's reliable acceptable accuracy . A rifle that holds 2 inch groups would take a lot of medium size game at close ranges .

[Oldbloke]

As others have said , I would start with the ADI ammo and the 165 grain Sierra Game King bullet . Get that sighted in as the fall back ammo and then branch out with testing some other brands when and if the situation allows . We can get caught up in time and money consuming tests that all meld together in the end because that ammo that shot so well two years back now might change as new batch's come along . You don't need target accuracy for stalking type hunting as long as it's reliable acceptable accuracy . A rifle that holds 2 inch groups would take a lot of medium size game at close ranges .

Trouble is, by the time you buy 6 boxes of ammo to try the cost would getting close a basic reloading set up.

[Oldbloke]

Assuming you have retained your brass. $1.15 to load. Mind you just ball park figures.
Not saying this is the best way to go, but it is one.

$77 for the most basic loader.
$180 for a set of scales that will last a life time if you look after them.

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[hunting99]

Aaaa the classic Lee gateway reloading kit

[JohnV]

As others have said , I would start with the ADI ammo and the 165 grain Sierra Game King bullet . Get that sighted in as the fall back ammo and then branch out with testing some other brands when and if the situation allows . We can get caught up in time and money consuming tests that all meld together in the end because that ammo that shot so well two years back now might change as new batch's come along . You don't need target accuracy for stalking type hunting as long as it's reliable acceptable accuracy . A rifle that holds 2 inch groups would take a lot of medium size game at close ranges .

Trouble is, by the time you buy 6 boxes of ammo to try the cost would getting close a basic reloading set up.

The guy was talking factory ammo . Dose not take 6 boxes to fire a few 3 shot groups . With component shortages now loaded factory ammo may be easier , not everyone wants to reload .

[bladeracer]

As others have said , I would start with the ADI ammo and the 165 grain Sierra Game King bullet . Get that sighted in as the fall back ammo and then branch out with testing some other brands when and if the situation allows . We can get caught up in time and money consuming tests that all meld together in the end because that ammo that shot so well two years back now might change as new batch's come along . You don't need target accuracy for stalking type hunting as long as it's reliable acceptable accuracy . A rifle that holds 2 inch groups would take a lot of medium size game at close ranges .

Trouble is, by the time you buy 6 boxes of ammo to try the cost would getting close a basic reloading set up.

The guy was talking factory ammo . Does not take 6 boxes to fire a few 3 shot groups . With component shortages now loaded factory ammo may be easier , not everyone wants to reload .

If you want to fire a few 3rd groups with different types of ammo you have buy at least one box of each...

With the price of factory ammo these days I'm amazed that everybody doesn't load their own. Primers have been an issue, and rifle powders have had a couple of minor hiccups recently. But if you can get primers, and they are coming in occasionally, I'd be reloading.

[Oldbloke]

As others have said , I would start with the ADI ammo and the 165 grain Sierra Game King bullet . Get that sighted in as the fall back ammo and then branch out with testing some other brands when and if the situation allows . We can get caught up in time and money consuming tests that all meld together in the end because that ammo that shot so well two years back now might change as new batch's come along . You don't need target accuracy for stalking type hunting as long as it's reliable acceptable accuracy . A rifle that holds 2 inch groups would take a lot of medium size game at close ranges .

Trouble is, by the time you buy 6 boxes of ammo to try the cost would getting close a basic reloading set up.

The guy was talking factory ammo . Dose not take 6 boxes to fire a few 3 shot groups . With component shortages now loaded factory ammo may be easier , not everyone wants to reload .

True. But JLH is very new to shooting. He may not understand that he has that option and that starting off can be done very cheaply and produce good ammo.

I had a look at cleavers and 308 ammo seems to be from $40 & $50 a box of 20. ($2.25 a round)

Lee classic does the job, slow but does the job.

Scales are not mandatory but advisable. He could buy them later.

If he tries 5 @$45 of anno that's $225.

77 loader
120 powder for 340 rounds
20 100 primers
60 100 bullets

$277 he gets 100 rounds

Powder for another 240 rounds and the loader. As I said prices are ball park.

https://youtu.be/UeEl9wZyabc

Recently a mate was trying factory in a new tikka 308. Easily went through 5 boxes/brands.
Then when he settled on a brand they were no longer available. DOH

[JohnV]

That's one of the reasons I agreed with starting with ADI ammo . Again , the guy may not want to reload .

[Oldbloke]

That's one of the reasons I agreed with starting with ADI ammo . Again , the guy may not want to reload .

He may not. But now he is better informed of that option.

[Flyonline]

How hard is it to learn to load (safely) on your own? This is a little different from throwing a few things together to make something for fun - if it goes wrong it could go wrong badly.

It's something I never thought I'd look into when I started a year or so ago, but I'm lucky to know an experienced reloader nearby who has all the gear so I'll only need to buy specifics for my caliber that he doesn't have, so it's certainly cropping up on my radar lately.

And really, the small thing that goes bang is probably the least expensive part of a hunting trip - even a full box of premium bullets is most likely less than the fuel to drive there and back. A bit different if you're wanting to shoot a lot of paper, but this was specifically about hunting.

Or, join a club and see if someone will go through the process and you can use their gear and learn at the same time

[Oldbloke]

Reloading can be as simple or complex as you want.
If you load conservatively, (low powder load) which the Lee Classic does, using the scoops, you can't go far wrong. But you still get good serviceable ammo.

Some, for reasons I don't understand like to make it sound, dangerous, technical or very complex, and it can be all of those. But it can also be very simple and safe.

[bladeracer]

It can't be that difficult, I started at seventeen with no mentors other than what I picked up in shooting magazines (and I was poor so not too many magazines came home with me). I'd never bought factory centrefire rifle ammo, I'd never fired a centrefire other than the M16 in Cadets, I probably knew as little about centrefire ammo as it was possible to know but I dived straight in and never used any factory ammo in my first centrefire rifle, and have bought essentially none in the forty years since.

For .308 I would use AR2206H, or perhaps AR2208, as these are both very easy to work with, give pretty good case fill (difficult to over-charge), and are very versatile so you can use them in lots of different chamberings. I think most of the "mistakes" that somebody is likely to make are most likely to cause damage if you're pushing fairly hot loads already. If you keep your loads on the moderate side then mistakes that might cause issues are likely to simply teach you to be more careful in future rather than damaging to yourself or your equipment. With AR2206H for example, if you look through the load data you'll see that "maximum" loads are often compressed, meaning you probably aren't going to fit much more in the case anyway. Unless you have a very special chamber you probably aren't going to get a 200gn bullet to seat (and chamber) on a 49gn powder charge meant for a 110gn bullet when there's only 39gn of powder space left in the case.

For medium game hunting, like deer, you're probably not going to go through a lot of ammo - you can use a .22LR to practice most of the relevant skills. Lots of recreational deer hunters probably have a box of twenty they bought five or ten years ago that they haven't gotten through yet. A pig shooter in Qld might get through several boxes in a single trip. A rabbit and fox shooter might get through several hundred rounds every month. Reloading is like learning to feed yourself, you can certainly live on food prepared by somebody else, and pay the premium for the convenience, or you can make your own food. Hunting your own food takes it a step further.

How hard is it to learn to load (safely) on your own? This is a little different from throwing a few things together to make something for fun - if it goes wrong it could go wrong badly.

It's something I never thought I'd look into when I started a year or so ago, but I'm lucky to know an experienced reloader nearby who has all the gear so I'll only need to buy specifics for my caliber that he doesn't have, so it's certainly cropping up on my radar lately.

And really, the small thing that goes bang is probably the least expensive part of a hunting trip - even a full box of premium bullets is most likely less than the fuel to drive there and back. A bit different if you're wanting to shoot a lot of paper, but this was specifically about hunting.

Or, join a club and see if someone will go through the process and you can use their gear and learn at the same time

[Oldbloke]

It can't be that difficult, I started at seventeen with no mentors other than what I picked up in shooting magazines (and I was poor so not too many magazines came home with me). I'd never bought factory centrefire rifle ammo, I'd never fired a centrefire other than the M16 in Cadets, I probably knew as little about centrefire ammo as it was possible to know but I dived straight in and never used any factory ammo in my first centrefire rifle, and have bought essentially none in the forty years since.

For .308 I would use AR2206H, or perhaps AR2208, as these are both very easy to work with, give pretty good case fill (difficult to over-charge), and are very versatile so you can use them in lots of different chamberings. I think most of the "mistakes" that somebody is likely to make are most likely to cause damage if you're pushing fairly hot loads already. If you keep your loads on the moderate side then mistakes that might cause issues are likely to simply teach you to be more careful in future rather than damaging to yourself or your equipment. With AR2206H for example, if you look through the load data you'll see that "maximum" loads are often compressed, meaning you probably aren't going to fit much more in the case anyway. Unless you have a very special chamber you probably aren't going to get a 200gn bullet to seat (and chamber) on a 49gn powder charge meant for a 110gn bullet when there's only 39gn of powder space left in the case.

For medium game hunting, like deer, you're probably not going to go through a lot of ammo - you can use a .22LR to practice most of the relevant skills. Lots of recreational deer hunters probably have a box of twenty they bought five or ten years ago that they haven't gotten through yet. A pig shooter in Qld might get through several boxes in a single trip. A rabbit and fox shooter might get through several hundred rounds every month. Reloading is like learning to feed yourself, you can certainly live on food prepared by somebody else, and pay the premium for the convenience, or you can make your own food. Hunting your own food takes it a step further.

How hard is it to learn to load (safely) on your own? This is a little different from throwing a few things together to make something for fun - if it goes wrong it could go wrong badly.

It's something I never thought I'd look into when I started a year or so ago, but I'm lucky to know an experienced reloader nearby who has all the gear so I'll only need to buy specifics for my caliber that he doesn't have, so it's certainly cropping up on my radar lately.

And really, the small thing that goes bang is probably the least expensive part of a hunting trip - even a full box of premium bullets is most likely less than the fuel to drive there and back. A bit different if you're wanting to shoot a lot of paper, but this was specifically about hunting.

Or, join a club and see if someone will go through the process and you can use their gear and learn at the same time

Pretty well spot on BL. I am also self taught.

[Vince24]

I love handloading and I don't regret having gone into it, but to say that you achieve savings by rolling your own, it's a bit like saying to a gambler that he will achieve savings by gambling online rather than actually going to the casino (saving fuel and parking tickets).

I.e. it is only theoritically true!

In real life, you are going to get even more addicted to your hobby and will end-up spending a lot more than if you restricted yourself to just buying prohibitvely expensive factory ammo / going to the casino once a month!

[JLH]

That's one of the reasons I agreed with starting with ADI ammo . Again , the guy may not want to reload .

He may not. But now he is better informed of that option.

Thanks everyone for your input!

OB - thanks for the overview of reloading, I actually would like to make some batches of reduced load ammo for Varminting and to get my fiance' behind the 308.

Is this possible with a 308 lee kit? I know very little.

For full power loads, I'll use factory... for now....

[Oldbloke]

That's one of the reasons I agreed with starting with ADI ammo . Again , the guy may not want to reload .

He may not. But now he is better informed of that option.

Thanks everyone for your input!

OB - thanks for the overview of reloading, I actually would like to make some batches of reduced load ammo for Varminting and to get my fiance' behind the 308.

Is this possible with a 308 lee kit? I know very little.

For full power loads, I'll use factory... for now....

Yes, the scoops measure fairly moderate amounts. BUT you need to ensure correct powder type. And some powders are in short supply ATM.
However the combination of a 130gr bullet and either AR2206H (best option light loads) or AR2208 will provide very mild kicking loads with moderate amounts of powder. Perfect for the Mrs.

Both powders can be used for "normal" loads also using say,, a 150gr or 170gr bullet.
The Lee classic is the cheapest way to start. You don't need much. ( see the DIY thread) But its best in the longer run to get a press and dies. A lot of gear can be purchased used and makes setting up much cheaper.
It's horses for courses.

As mentioned above if reloading often shooters just shoot more so savings may not be huge. But if your like me and don't go to the range often then there are significant savings. ( half price ammo)

If you bought a Lee classic after about 80 rounds it pays for its self. (Perhaps some one here will sell u one?) And you do need to shop around a bit for components as some are expensive ATM.

[JLH]

That's one of the reasons I agreed with starting with ADI ammo . Again , the guy may not want to reload .

He may not. But now he is better informed of that option.

I very much like the sound of that - being able to make reduced loads so I can use the 308 to get after foxes. I wonder if I can get vmax in 130 grainers...


Thanks everyone for your input!

OB - thanks for the overview of reloading, I actually would like to make some batches of reduced load ammo for Varminting and to get my fiance' behind the 308.

Is this possible with a 308 lee kit? I know very little.

For full power loads, I'll use factory... for now....

Yes, the scoops measure fairly moderate amounts. BUT you need to ensure correct powder type. And some powders are in short supply ATM.
However the combination of a 130gr bullet and either AR2206H (best option light loads) or AR2208 will provide very mild kicking loads with moderate amounts of powder. Perfect for the Mrs.

Both powders can be used for "normal" loads also using say,, a 150gr or 170gr bullet.
The Lee classic is the cheapest way to start. You don't need much. ( see the DIY thread) But its best in the longer run to get a press and dies. A lot of gear can be purchased used and makes setting up much cheaper.
It's horses for courses.

As mentioned above if reloading often shooters just shoot more so savings may not be huge. But if your like me and don't go to the range often then there are significant savings. ( half price ammo)

If you bought a Lee classic after about 80 rounds it pays for its self. (Perhaps some one here will sell u one?) And you do need to shop around a bit for components as some are expensive ATM.

I like the sound of that, especially being able to make reduced loads for foxes - as I only have a 22lr.

I wonder if I can get a Vmax in 130gr...

I'll look into the lee kits - do they still produce accurate results as opposed to the larger kits?

[Oldbloke]

I would think any hollow point 130gr would work wonders on foxes. I hit one with 180gr some time back....it died very quickly.

The Lee can load pretty good ammo. But a press, scales and dies will do better all things being equal. But cost more. Many start with a Lee then buy better gear later. That's what I did.

Process is simple,

A lot of what loaders do is really "optional".

A basic procedure.
1. De-Prime
2. Clean with cloth or in Aldi ultrasonic cleaner. (Optional) Dry
3. Visual inspection of fired cases looking for signs of pressures, case separation or neck cracking.
4. Anneal every few reloads or as required. (Optional)
5. Lube case including inside neck.and FLRS or neck size. (LEE classic only neck sizes)
6. Wash/clean/remove all lube and dry.
7. Trim all cases & debur. (if required)
8. Prime.
9. Powder charge (Weighing charge is optional) scoops?
10. Seat projectile and check length. (OAL)

There is a lot of info a day links in the diy thread I posted earlier in the thread.

Reloading the centrefire cartridge - by Technical Advisor Brendan Atkinson.pdf

(635.55 KiB) Downloaded 267 times

[mchughcb]

I'd also think about a case of osa with the 165gr gameking projectiles. Keep the brass,its good brass.

[deye243]

I wonder if I can get a Vmax in 130gr...

Nope in .308 it's 110grain