Levelling my scope

[Wm.Traynor]

What a BEATCH of a job
It started last night when I found a bit of time to install a couple of Dungalung's Pocket bubble levels. The rifle has dovetails to which are attached some ancient 1" mounts and after fixing some minor hitches, refuge was taken indoors, brought on by the nasty cold wind in the garage.
Play resumed after the sneezing fit had subsided but this time all doors were shut tight and it seemed that the level of the crosshairs was OUT. "No problem", thought I, I will just loosen the cap screws, rotate the scope tube a bit and that will be that................................


But it wasn't over at all. Not by a long shot.
Every time the cap screws were tightened after rotating the scope the dratted thing went out of level Again and again.

This morning, the rings were checked to see if I had lapped them properly. "Nothing wrong there", I thought and commenced anew. This time the cap screws were tightened by 1/8th of a turn, one end at a time until the level changed for the worse. Then, work started on the other end, which was already done up a fair bit and eighth by eighth I tightened. The level changed again a time or two during this process and I backed off and restarted. At last it was over. The cap screws are pretty tight and the crosshairs are pretty darn good. HOORAAAY

Now, in all the Yt vids that I have studied, no-one mentions this Shemmozzle. Is it only me? What kind of process do you boys and girls use?

[straightshooter]

Putting up a picture of your setup might stimulate some intelligent comment.
I wonder what you hope to gain by lapping your rings.
Anyhow this is how I go about it.
Firstly I have a large swivel and rotatable vice with removable wooden jaws.
As I setup the barrel in the vice I use a starrett machinists level on a flat surface of the receiver, or on a bridge mount, or a rail, or a mounted half ring to get the rifle itself level and lock the vice in position making sure the it stays level with the barrel pointing in the direction of a 1 meter level clamped to a post a suitable distance away.
Now attach both bottom ring halves by nipping up but not permanent tight.
Place the scope in the rings and fit the upper ring halves partially tightening so it is still possible to rotate the scope without marring the finish.
At this point if you have an adjustable windage mount or rings you can bore sight the scope so it is in the center of it's windage travel.
Now gradually tighten the upper ring halves while constantly checking your cross hairs against your reference level.
Now tighten the ring bottoms, if appropriate, while checking the cross hairs against your reference.
If the cross hair is out of level loosen and retighten the upper ring halves after adjusting the rotation of the scope.
The actual job takes less time than it took me to write the procedure.

[Wm.Traynor]

Thank you very much, straightshooter

[JohnV]

It's hard to say what may be happening but if you don't sit right behind the gun in the correct place with the right or close to right cheek weld then the eye can be rotated at a different angle each time you look back into the scope . This can make you see a cant of the reticle differently each time . This is made even worse if you suffer from any astigmatism of the eye lens . Also I tighten the cap screws a bit at a time diagonally trying to keep the gap between the cap and the base relatively even on each side . If a scope has a slightly out of round tube or the rings are not perfectly round then it can move as it's being tightened . Once you know the scope ring positions for eye relief apply two wraps of plumbers teflon tape right where the rings will sit . This helps bed the tube better and tends to fight movement a bit and protects the tube from ring marks . Get the action leveled and the horizontal level or the vertical inline with a plumb bob string hanging in front of the scope . I prefer the vertical being vertical as that is you elevation adjustments at range and you want it tracking up and down vertical to the gun . Once you do that then tighten the scope caps while watching the vertical line . If it's a variable scope once tight crank the power up and down slowly watching the reticle . If the crosshair center wanders around the scope tube is in a bind . You can also use a shot saver to see if the reticle wanders around during power changes . If the tube is in a bind you will need to lap the lower rings only or if teh rings or mount has windage adjustments , tweak the back mount side to side slightly while cranking the power up and down , home in on a position that shows the least amount of crosshair wandering .

[Larry]

I use a level on the pic rail to level the gun under the scope. To set the scope up I attach a rope with a brick on the end to a tree branch as far away as possible I use that rope to set the reticle vertical, with the gun level. Yes everything must be tightened down correctly to stop any movement.

[JohnV]

A good number of shooters don't know that their point of aim is wandering away from the zero when they change magnification .
It's not really enough to just get the reticle in line and the eye relief set you also have to make sure the scope tube in not being distorted by poorly made rings or windage adjustable rings that are out of line and need to be adjusted correctly . When using a variable power scope . Most of the time the movement is minor and not causing any real issues but I have seen a large movement in a bad set of rings and a thin tube Nikko scope . It does no harm to do a test as part of your scope setup procedure . As a World Champion BR shooter Tony Boyer once said , " I don't search so hard for accurate rifles but I do search hard for accurate scopes ".

[Wm.Traynor]

JohnV,
Thank you for your interest. It's good to get a bit of feedback.
I am using ringmounts on my CZ. The top and bottom of both have been lapped, the tops only after I was having all the trouble.
I suppose that, in posting here, I was not crying on everybody's shoulder but I was confused by all the trouble that the cap screws were giving me; it being so unexpected.
So I think the ringmounts can be ruled out and maybe I have a funny shaped scope tube.
Whatever the case, thank you straightshooter and Larry and again, JohnV

[JohnV]

JohnV,
Thank you for your interest. It's good to get a bit of feedback.
I am using ringmounts on my CZ. The top and bottom of both have been lapped, the tops only after I was having all the trouble.
I suppose that, in posting here, I was not crying on everybody's shoulder but I was confused by all the trouble that the cap screws were giving me; it being so unexpected.
So I think the ringmounts can be ruled out and maybe I have a funny shaped scope tube.
Whatever the case, thank you straightshooter and Larry and again, JohnV

It never hurts to ask questions and sometimes you get good tips that help . Sounds like the rings were not made well .
I would say the cap screw holes are not vertical and are pulling the top cap around and out of line as they tighten up .
Bad aligned scope rings will usually create worse ring marks on your scope tube . Personally I would dump those rings and buy some new ones if you can .

[Wm.Traynor]

JohnV,
Thank you for your interest. It's good to get a bit of feedback.
I am using ringmounts on my CZ. The top and bottom of both have been lapped, the tops only after I was having all the trouble.
I suppose that, in posting here, I was not crying on everybody's shoulder but I was confused by all the trouble that the cap screws were giving me; it being so unexpected.
So I think the ringmounts can be ruled out and maybe I have a funny shaped scope tube.
Whatever the case, thank you straightshooter and Larry and again, JohnV

It never hurts to ask questions and sometimes you get good tips that help . Sounds like the rings were not made well .
I would say the cap screw holes are not vertical and are pulling the top cap around and out of line as they tighten up .
Bad aligned scope rings will usually create worse ring marks on your scope tube . Personally I would dump those rings and buy some new ones if you can .

Got it John
I have been thinking of Burris Signature rings but that is not set in concrete. Do you have any ideas on the subject?

[JohnV]

I have Leupold rimfire rings on my Brno (CZ) 11 mm dovetail 1 inch type . They have been good .
Burris also make good quality stuff . I presume you are talking a CZ rimfire not a CZ centerfire ?
I also have a set of Tasco rimfire rings on a spare scope for the Brno which seem well made .
I am not keen on alloy rings as the threads are too easy to strip . Stick to steel .
I also don't like the scope rings that have one screw at the top and are split vertically . They look cool but if you loosen the scope off to remove it you are also loosening the grip on the scope tube and it may potentially move which then means you have to set it up again .

[Wm.Traynor]

I have Leupold rimfire rings on my Brno (CZ) 11 mm dovetail 1 inch type . They have been good .
Burris also make good quality stuff . I presume you are talking a CZ rimfire not a CZ centerfire ?
I also have a set of Tasco rimfire rings on a spare scope for the Brno which seem well made .
I am not keen on alloy rings as the threads are too easy to strip . Stick to steel .
I also don't like the scope rings that have one screw at the top and are split vertically . They look cool but if you loosen the scope off to remove it you are also loosening the grip on the scope tube and it may potentially move which then means you have to set it up again .

Yes; it's a CZ455. Thanks for replying. I will have another look at Burris Signature Rings but it will be a while as I have medical expenses, Rates, Utilities

[JohnV]

Yeah inflation is killing us. I am somewhat lucky as I have a Military pension that covers most medical expenses but we have to pay private medical coverage for my wife . Food and fuel prices are crazy and must be really hurting large families , single mothers and unemployed some pensioners also . My wife and I have been very frugal in our lives saving every penny we could and living a spartan life to pay off a home and have some savings . We suffered through 17% interest rates and lost our good car and had to drive a $250 bomb I bought to get to work and I had to sell my whole gun collection to buy the house initially . Taken many years to get back a few guns and reloading stuff but us baby boomers had it so easy . Now we are on the right side of the interest rate rises , own the home and have some savings paying us a small dividend to offset inflation . Otherwise we would have to cut back in some areas . If I had a spare set of rimfire rings not being used I would give them to you but I don't .

[Wm.Traynor]

That's a very kind thought, John but don't forget that my scope is actually levelled............after all the trouble I felt that I needed to know why there was so much difficulty and you have provided an answer. At the first chance it will be tested to see how it goes but one thing is certain; I won't be putting a scope in those rings again.

Now, the rest of your post...........
So you got a $250 car to RUN?! You must be a magician
And now that you mention it, my guns had to be sold off in a time of "difficulty" but I recall those interest rates too and had the reverse experience, being lucky enough to lend at about that rate.
All the best, John

[JohnV]

It was a deal done when I had to sell my almost new car and that car got thrown back to me in the deal . It was a Holden HT and well worn out and I did have a lot of trouble with it , most of which I was able to fix but eventually the auto gearbox went I had no clue on that . However a friend of mine was a Police sergeant and he got it fixed for me for free . Don't ask me how I was not game to ask , just thankful . Eventually when interest rates went down we were able to afford a newer car . All the best to you also .