Execution Methods

[Lazarus]

In 'Merica, responsible for the 5th most executions, there's a plan afoot to execute some scumbag by suffocating them with nitrogen, through a mask.

All manner of panties are getting wedged in various vagitalia over this being a "cruel and unusual" method, that has only come about through a difficulty in getting the drugs usually used.

OK, 106,000 'Mericans died from accidental overdoses of the legal opioid fentanyl from 2019-21.
It apparently drops you like a .45 to the teeth.

I did some googling and found that some attorney general had considered its use but declined for reasons they wouldn't reveal.

It seems like a no brainer, junkies prove its efficacy in scumbag termination every day. Now, the fate of said US scumbag is neither here nor there to me, but it did get me wondering why such an obviously workable solution wouldn't be used.


https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/01/1145587

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-iss ... -the-world

[Oldbloke]

It will work fine.

Another could be:

A sleeping pill or injection.
Then carbon monoxide.

The yanks are great at fuking up executions.

Firing squad works to. And im sure plenty will que up the pull a trigger.

[Lazarus]

That's what intrigues me OB

They are so good at knocking each other off, seemingly out of sheer bastardry mostly, and there are so many ways.

[stihl88]

Average cost of a .223 round is about $1, cheap and effective...

[deye243]

Send what's her name over there to cook up a feed of mushys see seems to have a good kill rate .

[on_one_wheel]

Sounds like a pretty soft way to kill someone who's caused so much pain to others they've ended up on death row.

If I had it my way they'd be forced feed brake fluid for a main course followed by chlorine for desert.

[Lazarus]

Sounds like a pretty soft way to kill someone who's caused so much pain to others they've ended up on death row.

If I had it my way they'd be forced feed brake fluid for a main course followed by chlorine for desert.

It's a well known scientific fact(iod) that paedophilia is actually curable.

Apparently it's a simple cure, you simply "bend" them, over and over, and over.
Eventually, their desire to be rockspiders just....goes away

[Oldbloke]

Sounds like a pretty soft way to kill someone who's caused so much pain to others they've ended up on death row.

If I had it my way they'd be forced feed brake fluid for a main course followed by chlorine for desert.

Oooo, that sound interesting.

[wanneroo]

We need more executions not less.

Our "hanging tree" finally came down in a storm. Out in front of the courthouse we had an enormous old tree they used to hang people from in the 1800s. Back then there was none of this rehabilitation stuff, if you were a scumbag and did bad things they just tried you and then took you outside and hung you.

Firing squad or hanging I don't see the problem with.

You have some scumbags that have caused someone so much pain and anguish and people are all concerned about a little bit of pain they might go through dying?

[rc42]

The death penalty is always controversial.

Is it a deserved consequence for the crimes of some truly evil scumbags? Absolutely.

However, the US legal system itself is fundamentally corrupt (unless you are wealthy) and is all about statistics and winning no matter what, so a lot of innocent people get convicted by prosecutors that hide evidence that doesn't help their case and police officers who are not immune helping them or even lying to cover their own unjustified use of violence.

[alexjones]

I always thought guillotine would be the most "humane" way to commit an execution. Instant and pain free.
Whilst it may look grotesque to some it is basically an instant lights out.

[Larry]

I always thought guillotine would be the most "humane" way to commit an execution. Instant and pain free.
Whilst it may look grotesque to some it is basically an instant lights out.

Well not exactly, Scientists believe that a person still has consciousness for 20 seconds after being decapitated.

[Oldbloke]

I always thought guillotine would be the most "humane" way to commit an execution. Instant and pain free.
Whilst it may look grotesque to some it is basically an instant lights out.

Well not exactly, Scientists believe that a person still has consciousness for 20 seconds after being decapitated.

Yep I believe you. Oxygen in the brain would be good for at least that.

[Oldbloke]

The death penalty is always controversial.

Is it a deserved consequence for the crimes of some truly evil scumbags? Absolutely.

However, the US legal system itself is fundamentally corrupt (unless you are wealthy) and is all about statistics and winning no matter what, so a lot of innocent people get convicted by prosecutors that hide evidence that doesn't help their case and police officers who are not immune helping them or even lying to cover their own unjustified use of violence.

Yes, read a book about it years ago. Don't recall the stat's. But maybe 75% of those executed were black and poor. They got lawyers straight out of university with nil experience.

Personally I think if your convicted of murder twice. Bad luck, swing. And there are heaps convicted get out after 15yesrs then do it again.

No way your wrongly convicted and innocent twice.

I figure no matter what your bound to be guilty of at least one of the murders. So, fukem, swing.

Is it cheaper, NFI but the victims relatives will at least feel justice has been done.

Money shouldn't come into in anyway.

[Lazarus]

As Larry pointed out, the brain is still concious until blood loss brings unconsciousness

https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sc ... capitation

[No1_49er]

As Larry pointed out, the brain is still concious until blood loss brings unconsciousness

Which is why the proposed method of using Nitrogen Asphyxiation has merit.
By enveloping a person in Nitrogen immediately removes the ability for the lungs to process Oxygen into the blood.
Result - death is almost immediate.
By destroying the ability of the lungs to expel Carbon Dioxide and hence the possibility of re-uptake of the CO2 there will be no natural response to gasp for more "air", as would be the case with an increasing CO2 atmosphere.

There have been a number of recorded deaths (by misadventure) when workers have entered an environment that has been voided of Oxygen by purging with Nitrogen, as is often the case when maintenance, such as welding, is undertaken on industrial sites.
I am aware of one case in which a worker entered a very large diameter pipe, inside of which it would be easy to manoeuvre, but which had been "oxygen freed". It was found that the worker had not, by any means, signalled that he was in distress - death had been almost instantaneous.

Death penalty? Lights out, quick smart.

[Lazarus]

As Larry pointed out, the brain is still concious until blood loss brings unconsciousness

Which is why the proposed method of using Nitrogen Asphyxiation has merit.
By enveloping a person in Nitrogen immediately removes the ability for the lungs to process Oxygen into the blood.
Result - death is almost immediate.
By destroying the ability of the lungs to expel Carbon Dioxide and hence the possibility of re-uptake of the CO2 there will be no natural response to gasp for more "air", as would be the case with an increasing CO2 atmosphere.

There have been a number of recorded deaths (by misadventure) when workers have entered an environment that has been voided of Oxygen by purging with Nitrogen, as is often the case when maintenance, such as welding, is undertaken on industrial sites.
I am aware of one case in which a worker entered a very large diameter pipe, inside of which it would be easy to manoeuvre, but which had been "oxygen freed". It was found that the worker had not, by any means, signalled that he was in distress - death had been almost instantaneous.

Death penalty? Lights out, quick smart.

Despite my earlier hyperbole regarding kiddy fiddlers, the inherent problem is the number of wrongly convicted who might get slotted before their innocence is discovered.

My only problem with any method of execution, is that once the scum has been put down, that's it.
Victims and or their families suffer forever and oldmate scumbag is too busy being dead to appreciate the punishment.

Far better to give them a term of life sentence in a dark box.

[No1_49er]

Two points of discussion here.

1) The possibility of innocence / wrongful conviction. Yes, it happens. Chamberlin, Folberg, etc., either because of malicious prosecution (in all its guises) or incompetent defence. Isn't the adversarial "justice" system great?

2) The cost of incarceration, or the means of carrying out the ultimate sanction. If there is Incontrovertible evidence that a person is convicted of a crime for which the death penalty is warranted, what is the cost of a few litres of Nitrogen compared to a lifetime in the big state-run "hotel"?

[Oldbloke]

As Larry pointed out, the brain is still concious until blood loss brings unconsciousness

Which is why the proposed method of using Nitrogen Asphyxiation has merit.
By enveloping a person in Nitrogen immediately removes the ability for the lungs to process Oxygen into the blood.
Result - death is almost immediate.
By destroying the ability of the lungs to expel Carbon Dioxide and hence the possibility of re-uptake of the CO2 there will be no natural response to gasp for more "air", as would be the case with an increasing CO2 atmosphere.

There have been a number of recorded deaths (by misadventure) when workers have entered an environment that has been voided of Oxygen by purging with Nitrogen, as is often the case when maintenance, such as welding, is undertaken on industrial sites.
I am aware of one case in which a worker entered a very large diameter pipe, inside of which it would be easy to manoeuvre, but which had been "oxygen freed". It was found that the worker had not, by any means, signalled that he was in distress - death had been almost instantaneous.

Death penalty? Lights out, quick smart.

Ummm, not really correct. It simple deprives them of any oxygen. Will take i guess about 2 minutes to lose consciousness as the blood is still carrying oxygen. Untill most of that is used by the body they will be alert. Much the same as decapitation. But none of the pain.


But perhaps that is what you were trying to explain.

[Lazarus]

As Larry pointed out, the brain is still concious until blood loss brings unconsciousness

Which is why the proposed method of using Nitrogen Asphyxiation has merit.
By enveloping a person in Nitrogen immediately removes the ability for the lungs to process Oxygen into the blood.
Result - death is almost immediate.
By destroying the ability of the lungs to expel Carbon Dioxide and hence the possibility of re-uptake of the CO2 there will be no natural response to gasp for more "air", as would be the case with an increasing CO2 atmosphere.

There have been a number of recorded deaths (by misadventure) when workers have entered an environment that has been voided of Oxygen by purging with Nitrogen, as is often the case when maintenance, such as welding, is undertaken on industrial sites.
I am aware of one case in which a worker entered a very large diameter pipe, inside of which it would be easy to manoeuvre, but which had been "oxygen freed". It was found that the worker had not, by any means, signalled that he was in distress - death had been almost instantaneous.

Death penalty? Lights out, quick smart.

Ummm, not really correct. It simple deprives them of any oxygen. Will take i guess about 2 minutes to lose consciousness as the blood is still carrying oxygen. Untill most of that is used by the body they will be alert. Much the same as decapitation. But none of the pain.


But perhaps that is what you were trying to explain.

In my younger days I did a great deal of caving, at one stage I was employed as a guide for two geomorphologists who were mapping a local cave system.
One of the caves had been closed for decades because some rare critter or other.
The tiny entrance was at the bottom of a small doline and the grid blocking the entrance had collected sticks and leaf litter, sealing it.
Being a dead cave(dry, with no exit or air flow) it had built up a high concentration of CO2.
We cleared the entrance and left it for a month, but the air inside was the worst I've ever experienced.
The entire time we were in there, no more than 2hrs, I felt so out of breath, there were times I had to fight the panic reaction to bolt.
Two of the group did have to retreat, one of them actually pissed himself when he pushed too hard to get out and keeled over.

The moral of the above anecdote, suffocation is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a "humane" method compared to a hotshot of heroin, or a hammer to the brain stem.

However, some murderous child rapist, meh, let them suck on it.

[Oldbloke]

As Larry pointed out, the brain is still concious until blood loss brings unconsciousness

Which is why the proposed method of using Nitrogen Asphyxiation has merit.
By enveloping a person in Nitrogen immediately removes the ability for the lungs to process Oxygen into the blood.
Result - death is almost immediate.
By destroying the ability of the lungs to expel Carbon Dioxide and hence the possibility of re-uptake of the CO2 there will be no natural response to gasp for more "air", as would be the case with an increasing CO2 atmosphere.

There have been a number of recorded deaths (by misadventure) when workers have entered an environment that has been voided of Oxygen by purging with Nitrogen, as is often the case when maintenance, such as welding, is undertaken on industrial sites.
I am aware of one case in which a worker entered a very large diameter pipe, inside of which it would be easy to manoeuvre, but which had been "oxygen freed". It was found that the worker had not, by any means, signalled that he was in distress - death had been almost instantaneous.

Death penalty? Lights out, quick smart.

Ummm, not really correct. It simple deprives them of any oxygen. Will take i guess about 2 minutes to lose consciousness as the blood is still carrying oxygen. Untill most of that is used by the body they will be alert. Much the same as decapitation. But none of the pain.


But perhaps that is what you were trying to explain.

In my younger days I did a great deal of caving, at one stage I was employed as a guide for two geomorphologists who were mapping a local cave system.
One of the caves had been closed for decades because some rare critter or other.
The tiny entrance was at the bottom of a small doline and the grid blocking the entrance had collected sticks and leaf litter, sealing it.
Being a dead cave(dry, with no exit or air flow) it had built up a high concentration of CO2.
We cleared the entrance and left it for a month, but the air inside was the worst I've ever experienced.
The entire time we were in there, no more than 2hrs, I felt so out of breath, there were times I had to fight the panic reaction to bolt.
Two of the group did have to retreat, one of them actually pissed himself when he pushed too hard to get out and keeled over.

The moral of the above anecdote, suffocation is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a "humane" method compared to a hotshot of heroin, or a hammer to the brain stem.

However, some murderous child rapist, meh, let them suck on it.

That's why I said give them a sedative first.

[Lazarus]

On the subject:

Two missionaries were in the Amazon to spread their god bothery among the lowly heathens, when they were captured by an unknown tribe.

They were taken to the village and presented to the chieftain.

This tribe hated outsiders, the chief said to the missionaries " You have come, uninvited, to our home, this is not permitted and you must be punished."

"We aren't savages," he continued, "you have a choice.
You can choose death, or you can choose Boingo"

They drag the first missionary to the centre of the village and demanded he make his choice.
"I don't want to die, but, what is Boingo?" he asked.
"Boingo" the chief replied, is where we bend you over the Boingo log, and every man in the village will do the sex in your bum"

The missionary is horrified at the prospect, but doesn't want to die, so he opts for Boingo, and the village men clap in approval.

After witnessing the procedure, the second missionary is brought to the chief

"Choose" demanded the head man.

"I'm a man of god" replied the missionary, I'd rather die."

"Ah, said the chief quietly, "a man of principle"
Turning to the villagers he announced the man's choice, and the tribe went wild, dancing a clapping.

Puzzled by the excitement the missionary asked the chief how the execution would be carried out.

The chief smiled as he started to undress, "Why, by Boingo, of course"

[animalpest]

As Larry pointed out, the brain is still concious until blood loss brings unconsciousness

Which is why the proposed method of using Nitrogen Asphyxiation has merit.
By enveloping a person in Nitrogen immediately removes the ability for the lungs to process Oxygen into the blood.
Result - death is almost immediate.
By destroying the ability of the lungs to expel Carbon Dioxide and hence the possibility of re-uptake of the CO2 there will be no natural response to gasp for more "air", as would be the case with an increasing CO2 atmosphere.

There have been a number of recorded deaths (by misadventure) when workers have entered an environment that has been voided of Oxygen by purging with Nitrogen, as is often the case when maintenance, such as welding, is undertaken on industrial sites.
I am aware of one case in which a worker entered a very large diameter pipe, inside of which it would be easy to manoeuvre, but which had been "oxygen freed". It was found that the worker had not, by any means, signalled that he was in distress - death had been almost instantaneous.

Death penalty? Lights out, quick smart.

Ummm, not really correct. It simple deprives them of any oxygen. Will take i guess about 2 minutes to lose consciousness as the blood is still carrying oxygen. Untill most of that is used by the body they will be alert. Much the same as decapitation. But none of the pain.


But perhaps that is what you were trying to explain.

Use of CO2 causes pain and distress. "Animals placed into a chamber containing concentrations of CO2 above 50% will experience at least 10-15 seconds of pain prior to loss of consciousness." "If animals are placed into a chamber of rising concentration of CO2 they will find it aversive once it
reaches a certain concentration and may experience dyspnoea, “air hunger” which is known to be very distressing in humans." "CO2 may also cause discomfort or pain as a result of its conversion to carbonic acid on mucosal surfaces."

Even in euthanising small animals, it is not recommended for those weighing above about 2.5kg.

[Oldbloke]

Not sure why we are worried about some scum bag being caused some "distress". After all they took someone's life.

Anyway CO works pretty good. You just go to sleep and never wake up. Cheap as chips too. Just lock them in a sealed room and turn on the gas. Happy days.

P.S.
The 223 option is appealing too. Could run a lottery to get the chance to pull one of the 6 triggers. Victims relatives could get the money raised.

[alexjones]

Not sure why we are worried about some scum bag being caused some "distress". After all they took someone's life.

Anyway CO works pretty good. You just go to sleep and never wake up. Cheap as chips too. Just lock them in a sealed room and turn on the gas. Happy days.

P.S.
The 223 option is appealing too. Could run a lottery to get the chance to pull one of the 6 triggers. Victims relatives could get the money raised.

Welcome to Australia. The home of the no freedom overregulated nanny state where criminals have it better than the freemen.

[alexjones]

Wrongful convictions have near plummeted with the onset of DNA testing in the 1980s/1990s.

I do agree that the court system is a game. The court has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt of the guilt of the alleged. So the more money one has the greater the likelihood of casting that doubt. I myself was charged with 2 offences once and it cost me 25 grand in lawyer and queen council barrister fees and nearly 9 months to create the doubt which led to the magistrate acquitting me of the charges. If I had not of spent that 25 grand I do not know enough about the law and I would of been convicted of the charges.

Lawyers are the true winners as they make an absolute killing.

[Lazarus]

Not sure why we are worried about some scum bag being caused some "distress". After all they took someone's life.

Anyway CO works pretty good. You just go to sleep and never wake up. Cheap as chips too. Just lock them in a sealed room and turn on the gas. Happy days.

P.S.
The 223 option is appealing too. Could run a lottery to get the chance to pull one of the 6 triggers. Victims relatives could get the money raised.

Welcome to Australia. The home of the no freedom overregulated nanny state where criminals have it better than the freemen.

Pretty certain Alabama is in 'Merica, and it's them doing the hand wringing.

We Aussies are just poking fun at them

[Lazarus]

Wrongful convictions have near plummeted with the onset of DNA testing in the 1980s/1990s.

I do agree that the court system is a game. The court has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt of the guilt of the alleged. So the more money one has the greater the likelihood of casting that doubt. I myself was charged with 2 offences once and it cost me 25 grand in lawyer and queen council barrister fees and nearly 9 months to create the doubt which led to the magistrate acquitting me of the charges. If I had not of spent that 25 grand I do not know enough about the law and I would of been convicted of the charges.

Lawyers are the true winners as they make an absolute killing.

So, does that mean you didn't actually prove you were innocent, just put some shade on their case?

[alexjones]

Wrongful convictions have near plummeted with the onset of DNA testing in the 1980s/1990s.

I do agree that the court system is a game. The court has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt of the guilt of the alleged. So the more money one has the greater the likelihood of casting that doubt. I myself was charged with 2 offences once and it cost me 25 grand in lawyer and queen council barrister fees and nearly 9 months to create the doubt which led to the magistrate acquitting me of the charges. If I had not of spent that 25 grand I do not know enough about the law and I would of been convicted of the charges.

Lawyers are the true winners as they make an absolute killing.

So, does that mean you didn't actually prove you were innocent, just put some shade on their case?

My understanding of the law(in QLD at least) is its not a matter of proving innocence but the police(prosecutor) having to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. The queens council barrister taught me that you can commit a crime and not be found guilty due to "reasonable excuse".

So as an example trespassing/failure to leave a licensed venue and disorderly conduct/offensive behaviour is ilegal. However due to having the freedom to protest it can be considered reasonable to trespass. And disorderly conduct/offensive behavior is hard to prove because they are objective terms that a reasonable person may not find offensive. Hurting a police officer feelings is not a crime.

Sometimes the police charge you with the wrong crime as well. So whilst you may have committed disorderly conduct the police charged you with offensive behaviour or public nuisance. So the magistrate has to acquit you because whilst you may have committed a crime you did not commit the crime you are being charged with.


The law is technical as F and contains so much red tape. Remember the 8000 police in Victoria who were not properly sworn in and thus not technically cops? A few crims got let out of jail because technically they were held against their will by people who were not police. Those 8000 police opened carried firearms without an exemption and thus were in ilegal possession of a firearm in a public place.

[Lazarus]

Wrongful convictions have near plummeted with the onset of DNA testing in the 1980s/1990s.

I do agree that the court system is a game. The court has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt of the guilt of the alleged. So the more money one has the greater the likelihood of casting that doubt. I myself was charged with 2 offences once and it cost me 25 grand in lawyer and queen council barrister fees and nearly 9 months to create the doubt which led to the magistrate acquitting me of the charges. If I had not of spent that 25 grand I do not know enough about the law and I would of been convicted of the charges.

Lawyers are the true winners as they make an absolute killing.

So, does that mean you didn't actually prove you were innocent, just put some shade on their case?

My understanding of the law(in QLD at least) is its not a matter of proving innocence but the police(prosecutor) having to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. The queens council barrister taught me that you can commit a crime and not be found guilty due to "reasonable excuse".

So as an example trespassing/failure to leave a licensed venue and disorderly conduct/offensive behaviour is ilegal. However due to having the freedom to protest it can be considered reasonable to trespass. And disorderly conduct/offensive behavior is hard to prove because they are objective terms that a reasonable person may not find offensive. Hurting a police officer feelings is not a crime.

Sometimes the police charge you with the wrong crime as well. So whilst you may have committed disorderly conduct the police charged you with offensive behaviour or public nuisance. So the magistrate has to acquit you because whilst you may have committed a crime you did not commit the crime you are being charged with.


The law is technical as F and contains so much red tape. Remember the 8000 police in Victoria who were not properly sworn in and thus not technically cops? A few crims got let out of jail because technically they were held against their will by people who were not police. Those 8000 police opened carried firearms without an exemption and thus were in ilegal possession of a firearm in a public place.

Yeah, it is a sh!t show.
The basis of my question though, was is there jeopardy attached?
Can they come at you again on the same issue?
That would be a concern