The Australian Defence Force capability.

[Oldbloke]

As I think we all know, it isn't where it should be, way weaker than it was say,,,30 years ago.
IMO between the politicians and incompetent leadership of the ADI the purchase of equipment has been a debacle for many years. We seem to consistently pay top price for lemons.

Well, starting to look like AUKUS is on shaky ground now.
When will it end?

https://asiapacificdefencereporter.com/ ... 9-66264758

[Larry]

It will end when Trump is in jail.

[straightshooter]

The Orange Jesus has nothing, nothing (intentionally repeated for emphasis) to do with Australia's capacity for self reliance.
With acknowledgement to Keating, Australia has stopped (mostly) tugging at the forelock of mother Britain and now prefers to tug at the forelock of Uncle Sam.
Australia has become a hole in the ground and a farm.
What has become of Australia's industrial capacity?
In who's hands does Australia's defence industry (what's left of it) now reside.
Australia, as it stands, is a logistical nightmare in the event of a hot conflict.
Forget about the presently popular "villain de jour" enemies, Australia only has one realistic lasting threat which these days is never spoken about.
In the event that threat ever became a reality I wonder which of it's reputation the US would live up to, being formidable as an enemy or treacherous as a friend.

[Lazarus]

Look at the ego driven nonsense with the MH-90, they would rather bury them at enormous cost, than risk the Ukrainians operating them successfully.
When did the Australian Defence Force "cake eaters" become the arbiters of Ukraine's wartime risk assessments?

[Billo]

Look at the ego driven nonsense with the MH-90, they would rather bury them at enormous cost, than risk the Ukrainians operating them successfully.
When did the Australian Defence Force "cake eaters" become the arbiters of Ukraine's wartime risk assessments?

I believe the spare parts are worth more than the MH-90's still in 1 piece and drones are pretty much making Military Helicopters redundant.

We need more missile & drone capabilities

[Larry]

The Aus defense force when it comes to the crunch is actually pretty good. I used to be involved and still know quite a few people. When we invaded East Timor. The logistics all worked very well there were football ovals in Townsville and Darwin that were filled with equipment and supplies overnight ready to be distributed and shipped out nearly immediately.

As for the strategic planning, purchasing and procurement political boffins it is another story but the on the ground troupes get stuff done.

[Oldbloke]

Well, this "sounds" positive.
Abt 15 new vessels. But most to be built overseas. That's if they ever arrive.

Too little too late perhaps?



https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-20/ ... c_news_web

[Lazarus]

Look at the ego driven nonsense with the MH-90, they would rather bury them at enormous cost, than risk the Ukrainians operating them successfully.
When did the Australian Defence Force "cake eaters" become the arbiters of Ukraine's wartime risk assessments?

I believe the spare parts are worth more than the MH-90's still in 1 piece and drones are pretty much making Military Helicopters redundant.

We need more missile & drone capabilities

Probably right there Billo, but the only thing between putin and Europe is Ukraine.
They're doing the fighting, and dying, for everyone, the very least we could do is help a bit more.

[on_one_wheel]

Probably right there Billo, but the only thing between putin and Europe is Ukraine.
They're doing the fighting, and dying, for everyone, the very least we could do is help a bit more.

I seriously doubt Putin would ever consider invading Europe, Russia would be wiped off the map, he'd be instantly declaring war against all NATO countries.

[gunderson]

I think Poland and Germany would flog Russia on their own... never mind anyone else that has something to gain or something to lose if Russia fails.

[on_one_wheel]

True, they're struggling to take Ukraine, they wouldn't have a snowflakes hope in hell against Germany and Poland.

[Oldbloke]

Ah, but if Putin gets desperate?

1_25.jpg (98.85 KiB) Viewed 10534 times

Way off topic.

[gunderson]

that would be 1000% mutually assured destruction, and how much of their arsenal has actually been upkept? given the state of everything they have been using in Ukraine its probably a paper elephant.

[straightshooter]

I think Poland and Germany would flog Russia on their own... never mind anyone else that has something to gain or something to lose if Russia fails.

Were something along those lines to ever happen then history suggests that the greater probability would be for Germany and Russia to secretly collude to carve up Poland yet again.

[alexjones]

I don't see how people think Russia is losing this war. Regardless of the war goals as to what will constitute a victory they are in essence winning this war.

Ukraine has been preparing fortified positions in depth since 2014 and are at near full mobilisation. Not to mention receiving huge world wide support.

Russia on the other hand have nowhere near fully mobilised and is receiving basically no support.

Just like in WW1 on the western front. Things are a slow grind during trench warfare until the major breakout happens then things move very quickly.

Remember the hundred day offensive during August and November 1918 that saw massive allied victories? Combined with Germanys revolution that basically ended the war.

A few tactical victories for Ukraine but the strategic victory is still looking like Russia has it. The only variable is who wins the USA election on November 3.

[alexjones]

In regards to the ADF, the Australian army has something like 18 hours of small arms ammunition stockpiled for major conflict.

One day of intense battle and she is all over.

I think at the moment a standard infantry platoon in the battalions is 28 men. I own more firearms, ammunition and accessories than a platoon. Granted not full auto but still. Rather embarrassing having such a limp wrist military.

This is why I love America. 400 million firearms in a country of 330 million people. That is half of all the worlds firearm ownership. America is around 4.5 percent of the worlds population. Of that 330 million people 3 percent own half of those 400 million firearms.

So something like 10 million people own 25 percent of the worlds firearms. That is very cool.

[straightshooter]

Suffering a 10+ to 1 casualty ratio, and now with Ukraine press-ganging up to 70 year old men and mentally impaired men into it's army kind of suggests things aren't going Ukraine's way.

[Lazarus]

I don't see how people think Russia is losing this war. Regardless of the war goals as to what will constitute a victory they are in essence winning this war.

Ukraine has been preparing fortified positions in depth since 2014 and are at near full mobilisation. Not to mention receiving huge world wide support.

Russia on the other hand have nowhere near fully mobilised and is receiving basically no support.

Just like in WW1 on the western front. Things are a slow grind during trench warfare until the major breakout happens then things move very quickly.

Remember the hundred day offensive during August and November 1918 that saw massive allied victories? Combined with Germanys revolution that basically ended the war.

A few tactical victories for Ukraine but the strategic victory is still looking like Russia has it. The only variable is who wins the USA election on November 3.

No suport?
Are you living in a cave alexjones?

Here is an excerpt of just some of those supporting putin, doesn't mention the 45th, but he's probably putin's biggest dickboy, and when he returns......OBs graphic.


From Wikipedia ( cue the scoffing)

Belarus, a close ally of Russia, has supported Russia in its invasion of Ukraine. Before the start of the offensive, Belarus allowed the Russian Armed Forces to perform weeks-long military drills on its territory; the Russian troops did not leave Belarus after the drills were supposed to finish. Belarus allowed Russia to stage part of the invasion from its territory, giving Russia the shortest-possible land route to Ukraine's capital Kyiv.[339][340][341][342] The Russian forces withdrew within two months, ending land-based military operations originating from Belarus and resulting in Ukraine's recapture of territory on its side of the Ukraine/Belarus border.[343] Despite this, the situation along the border remained tense; Ukraine closed the border checkpoints leading into Belarus, bar special cases.[344]

Belarus initially denied involvement with the conflict but has since said it allowed Russian missile launchers stationed on its territory to shoot at Ukrainian targets. Several reports from the Belarusian opposition and Armed Forces of Ukraine said Belarusian troops were fighting with Russians in Ukraine but Belarus's leader Aleksander Lukashenko dismissed them and said the Belarusian Armed Forces (BAF) would not directly participate in the conflict. As of early 2023, the BAF had not been involved in fighting against Ukraine and had remained within Belarus during the conflict. Lukashenko stated he would not send soldiers into Ukraine unless attacked first.[344][345]

According to the Ukrainian foreign ministry, Lukashenko assured Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy at the start of the invasion he would not to involve his nation's armed forces on the side of Russia.[346] In early 2023, Lukashenko stated Ukraine had offered to formalize this arrangement with a non-aggression pact.[347]

The involvement of Belarus was condemned in Western countries; the EU, the US, the UK, Canada, and Japan imposed sanctions against Belarus. According to Chatham House, Belarus's participation in the military conflict is unpopular among the general population;[348] protests were held on 27 February, the day of the constitutional referendum that asked the populace to revoke Belarus's non-nuclear-country status, but were quickly dispersed. Hackers targeted Belarusian government agencies and the country's critical infrastructure with the aim of disrupting the Russian war effort in Belarus.

In the early days of the invasion, Belarus was also involved in peace initiatives, holding Russo-Ukrainian talks on its border. Despite some preliminary agreements, the talks did not result in a lasting ceasefire.[349]

Belarusian territory has also been used to launch missiles into Ukraine.[350]

Materiel to Russia from Iran
edit
Amirabad Port, Iran, has been identified as a source of materiel that was shipped northward across the Caspian Sea to the Port of Astrakhan. The Russian-flagged ships Musa Jalil and Begey carried 200 containers of materiel to Russia in a €140-million cash transaction from 10 January 2023, arriving in Astrakhan on 2 February 2023.[351][352][353]

Iran has sent to Russia thousands of HESA Shahed 136 drones; Russia has little-to-no domestic UAV industry. Russia plans to build new industrial plants in the Alabuga Special Economic Zone to allow it to produce domestic its own Shahed 136 and Shahed 131 drones, leasing the design from Iran and hoping to produce 6,000 Shahed drones per year by 2025. Russian domestic production has encountered several problems, such as a lack of semiconductors and circuitry required to produce the drones. As of 17 August 2023, the Alabuga Shahed production plant had enough materials to produce 300 drones; Russia domestically produces only four of the 130 necessary components.[354][355][356]

development and interests of their country against the imperialists' high-handed and arbitrary practices".[368][369] North Korea has also issued support for the Russian government during the Wagner Group rebellion and blamed the war in Ukraine on the US's "hegemonic policy".[370]

On 27 July 2023, during North Korea's 70th celebration of its Day of Victory in the Great Fatherland Liberation War, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu was received in Pyongyang to join the military parade.[371][372][373][374][excessive citations] This was the first time a Russian defense minister had visited North Korea since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991. During his visit, Shoigu and Kim promised closer military corporation between the two countries, and Kim showed Shoigu North Korean nuclear missiles.[375][376][377][excessive citations] Afterward, Shoigu and Kim toured a weapons exhibition, as Russia seeks to outfit its declining supplies with North Korean weaponry and ammunition.[378][379][380][381]

Representatives from various countries attended the Army-2023 arms exposition the Russian Ministry of Defense in held in Moscow. These included dignitaries from China, Iran, and India, and representatives from Myanmar, Pakistan, Cambodia, Laos, Bangladesh, and Djibouti. These delegates met with Russian deputy defense minister Alexander Fomin and had discussions to improve bilateral defense relations. Chinese defense minister Li Shangfu was one of the speakers; he used the forum to celebrate Russian-Chinese strategic cooperation and to signal Chinese readiness for further cooperation.[398] As part of the bilateral talks during the forum, Russian and Iranian dignitaries discussed the removal of US military bases from northeastern Syria.[355]

Sergey Lavrov and Djibouti Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation, Mahmoud Ali Yusuf. The talks concluded with a bilateral military agreement under which the Djibouti Armed Forces would be trained by Russian advisors, and equipped with Russian arms and vehicles.[392] In 2021 Russia and Djibouti entered an agreement on cooperation in politics, trade, the economy, investment activity, education, and healthcare.[393] On 25 January 2022, the summit "Russia-Ethiopia-Djibouti: Prospects for Business Development" was held between dignitaries from Russia, Ethiopia and Djibouti, and was hosted by the Coordinating Committee for Economic Cooperation with African Countries of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry of the Russian Federation to further the presence of Russian companies in the region.[394]

Russia's investments in Djibouti increased after Russia invaded Ukraine, and Djibouti became one of Russia's few open allies in the region. On 15 March 2023, Russia, China, and Iran held joint naval exercises in the Gulf of Oman, operating out of the Chinese naval base in Djibouti City.[395] Russia was planning to build its own naval base in the city because Russian warships routinely use the port to resupply, and China has stated Russia is free to use the Chinese base to dock its ships, such as the Admiral Kuznetsov. The Russian paramilitary Wagner Group also maintains a presence in Djibouti, further straining relations with the United States, which maintains its own military base Camp Lemonnier in Djibouti.[396] As part of the Black Sea Grain Initiative, most of the grain being exported by Ukraine in agreement with Russia was sent to Djibouti to be distributed to the rest of the Horn of Africa under Russia's supervision.[397]

Libyan Tobruk government
edit
On 22 August 2023, in Libya, Marshal Khalifa Haftar hosted a Russian delegation that included Deputy Defense Minister Colonel General Yunus-Bek Yevkurov to discuss bilateral cooperation in combating international terrorism and other issues.[399] Part of Yevkurov's visit's goal was to persuade the Libyan House of Representatives to cut ties with the Wagner Group, which has been providing military aid since 2018, in favor of a new Russian state-affiliated group.[400]

Most of the dictators in the world are on Russias side.
The Ukrainians are doing the fighting and dying and we've been giving them just enough to not lose, the massive attrition on Rusdian forces suits the west more than saving the Ukrainians ftom slavery

[alexjones]

Belarus providing a staging ground and some places providing some artillery shells and drones is what I would call bugger all support. Come on man there is no comparison.

Ukraine has over 20 thousand foreign volunteers(not to mention how many US and UK special forces providing training and support), countless amounts of artillery, missiles, ammunition and hundreds of billions of dollars. Also tanks, trucks and planes and everything else. Ukraine is a gaping wound being held together with a Band-Aid.

[Oldbloke]

This is about the ADI and the defence of AU, not Ukraine.
I do understand that some feel strongly about the Russian invasion and therefore think it should have its own thread.

Just saying.
Can we pls stay on topic.

image.jpg (9.58 KiB) Viewed 10462 times

[bladeracer]

This is about the ADI and the defence of AU, not Ukraine.
I do understand that some feel strongly about the Russian invasion and therefore think it should have its own thread.

Just saying.
Can we pls stay on topic.

image.jpg

As we have no defensive capability of our own I think it'll be either a very short thread or it's going to drift a lot.

[Oldbloke]

IMO it's currently a bit more than "drift".

[wanneroo]

Well in regards to the ADF, biggest thing Australia needs is to be able to defend it's oceans and be able to project power by sea to it's neighbors if need be. A strong navy is vital.

Second thing is airpower, gotta be able to defend it's airspace and project air power to it's neighbors. NZ for instance can no longer protect it's airspace. Also have some sort of anti ship/sub capability helps out the Navy. Frankly the F-35 is a porker and lacks range. Australia really needs a long range interceptor, probably the next gen fighter the US Air Force is working on.

Next thing is this is 2024, so investing in rockets and drones would be a smart idea.

Lastly, the size of the reserves needs increased substantially.

[gunderson]

Agreed Australia should have a massive arsenal of long range hypersonic missiles, this is the only way to effectively control our airspace. We have the land mass of basically the USA to cover, and yet no national guard, no integrated defense matrix, low military personnel count, low fighter count, not many awax or support thereof, etc etc etc... a land battle in Australia is futile for both us and an occupying force, due to the tyranny of distance, however littoral battle and long range engagement should be 150% covered, we are 40 years behind where we should have been, we have almost no veterans to call on either, whereas the USA for example has something like 35% of the adult population are veterans... or have some sort of military training, this means that the USA has literally 140 million trained people which is like 5+ times our population... that and well a gun behind every blade of grass...

[alexjones]

I would bet the average Australian in 2024 would not even know how to dissemble a rifle if given one. Where for people like us, firearm use is second nature.

We need guns back in schools so kids learn how to shoot. Every school should have a pistol and rifle range.

My old girlfriend hated guns until I took her pistol shooting and she loved it. She said she felt empowered. Women for the most part love guns when they actually start shooting them. In QLD all a unlicensed person has to do is fill out a form and they can shoot under the supervision of a licensed person at a range as many times as they like. For rifle or pistol no difference. The range may have its own rules but I am speaking legally.

Young women are the fasted growing sub-group to get into shooting.

Israel has men and women training in their army which I find cool.

[Oldbloke]

Well in regards to the ADF, biggest thing Australia needs is to be able to defend it's oceans and be able to project power by sea to it's neighbors if need be. A strong navy is vital.

Second thing is airpower, gotta be able to defend it's airspace and project air power to it's neighbors. NZ for instance can no longer protect it's airspace. Also have some sort of anti ship/sub capability helps out the Navy. Frankly the F-35 is a porker and lacks range. Australia really needs a long range interceptor, probably the next gen fighter the US Air Force is working on.

Next thing is this is 2024, so investing in rockets and drones would be a smart idea.

Lastly, the size of the reserves needs increased substantially.

Agree.

[Lazarus]

Belarus providing a staging ground and some places providing some artillery shells and drones is what I would call bugger all support. Come on man there is no comparison.

Ukraine has over 20 thousand foreign volunteers(not to mention how many US and UK special forces providing training and support), countless amounts of artillery, missiles, ammunition and hundreds of billions of dollars. Also tanks, trucks and planes and everything else. Ukraine is a gaping wound being held together with a Band-Aid.

Are you just making this nonsense up for the sake of an argument? Like your namesake does?

As I mentioned elsewhere, I have contacts and friends IN Ukraine, they KNOW what the situation is and how dire their supply situation.
They are fighting a WW1 style battle of trenches, artillery and attrition.
Artillery the Russians, whom you claim aren't getting any help from anyone, are able to fire orders of magnitude more of thanks to Nth Korean artillery shells and Iranian drones, while Ukraine has to ration theirs.
Planes you say, what planes have been given to Ukraine?
They've been begging for F16s since the Russians invaded, they're still waiting.
Europe and the US are supplying them just enough to not lose too quickly, in order to degrade the Russian military.

[Larry]

Alexjones have you met Fion you two could start a thread to discuss anything and keep each other entertained for a lifetime not to mention about keeping stuff all in one place.

[gunderson]

who is this Fion/Fionn? I seem to recall digging back through some posts on here a while ago and seeing him arguing a fair bit, same as Hartman and Ziad... Are they the same person?

I'd thought a lot of that had died down on here however, I used to dig through threads as some reading when I didn't feel like a book. Most people contributing seem to be pretty good lads.

[Oldbloke]

Sooo, bit old but news to me.

We have already increased our 155mm production and will soon be making missiles.


https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-ne ... 397425f494


https://www.minister.defence.gov.au/med ... e-industry

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/countrie ... -munitions